1649 replies to this topic

[Gojira]

So i take it the raws heven't  come out yet?
 
Anyone else think the Naruto vs sasuke is very close?

Yeah I think the matter of Sasuke being dealt with will happen after Madara. I don't think they'll just let him return to the village without atleast explaining what his intentions are.

[luffyq1]

He might have been referring to in general... But if so it's still pretty crappy.

Agreed. It's like hey, you're a girl and all, and guys must be what you think about all the time so make sure you don't lose out to Sakura when it comes to that. That is my parting message to you. Meanwhile, his parting massage to both Chouji and Shikamaru is about being a better Shinbo. 

 

 

Lol

Edited by luffyq1, 09 May 2014 - 08:58 PM.

[FireFox]

 

If your going to look at Ino's feelings as just as crush, then you might as well do the same with Sakura's feelings. Ino's feelings may have not been elaborated on nearly as much as Sakura's, but Kishi has given her crumbs throughout the series for her ongoing feelings. Both Ino and Sakura cried when they found out what Sasuke did. Though it may not have been stated, you can put two and two together logically and come to the conclusion that she loves Sasuke. Even Asuma tells her not to lose out to love with Sakura.

image

Now this can be interpreted two ways. Either find some other love or don't lose Sasuke to Sakura. As it stands I'm going to go with the latter seeing as Ino has only been shown in this series to only have feelings for Sasuke. Sakura, Karin and Ino all have feelings for Sasuke and the only one to still be stuck on a crush is Ino? I would agree with you in part 1.
 
Whether Hinata's love is that of admiration or Sakura's is that of a false image, it's still being depicted as love in the series. Well Sakura is a different story just recently. I see where you guys are coming from, I do. But it has not be explicitly stated that Hinata only loves Naruto out of admiration and nothing more. I'll believe this theory when it's actually addressed in the manga instead of only being addressed outside the manga for anti's.

1 .Asuma was speaking in general here as in don't lose to her find love before her he didn't specifically said don't lose to Sakura for Sasuke's love  

 

2. I'm inclined to agree with you more or less about whether its crush or love simply because Kishi referred to it as "not positive love" but if i go by the manga there is no basis for her feelings for him to grow into love if anything her love for him is shallow.  

 

3. I never said that it isn't love what Hinata and Sakura have but that its false love  Hinata loves Naruto for his nindo what he represents not the person he is her confession to him is a proof of this when she says that "i wanted to be like you" as for Sakura its the false image she created of him based on that she was on the same team as him  but she refused to see the darkness in him and didn't see him as the person he really is  and she had a very low communication with him . All in all like i said NH & SS is false love its not real or true but its not a crush on this i agree with you .     

[DattebayoXShannaro]

Well like @luffyq1 said she was desperate and irrational during the whole confession she wasn't thinking clearly at all but then Sasuke rejects her with him saying you are annoying and just  proceeds to walk away (SS dead right here) its then when she tries to stop him again by saying she will scream if she was serious about going with him in the first place she wouldn't have tried to stop him by screaming and then he knocks her out END of SS . 

 

Its bad enough that there are translations out there like @Hanabi posted the second one in present-tense that makes it appear like her "love" for him evolved while in the MP and MS its in  past tense , otherwise SS is dead finished kaput there is nothing left but the resolution of T7 they parting on good therms and everyone goes on his own path. 

 

I agree, it's really the fans that support it that keep the ship alive, when it should have died years ago.

[FireFox]

 

I agree, it's really the fans that support it that keep the ship alive, when it should have died years ago.

Well what do you expect from a fandom that their only argument is "BECAUSE SHE LOVES" and the rest of it is fanfiction and butchering the character of Sasuke by putting him non existing feelings , they even slut shame Sakura's character by saying she's a whore if she doesn't end up with Sasuke because she's the only one that can save him for darkness and heal him with her love there is no hope for them        

[Silent Storm]

Just by simply observing the relationship, what pisses me off about SasuSaku (and to some degree, the fans that support it) is that....

 

Sasuke has done literally nothing for Sakura for her to love him romantically.

 

At no point in Part 1 did Sasuke do anything to progress their relationship, which is why I am struggling to see how this pairing still has any viability. Hinata, at the very least has done things for Naruto which COULD have had an impact Naruto's feelings for her, but as I touched on in the debate thread, none of this was taking advantage of and the entire pairing has just been a collection of missed opportunities, but I digress.

 

Just by simply observing the relationship, Sakura really has no reason to love him in a romantic way, when any attempts she made to get closer to him or show affection for, has backfired. He showed no emotion when he woke up from near death TWICE and even went as far as to slap an apple she was peeling for him out of her hand and focus squarely on Naruto and power. Even after confessing, while he thanked her for it, still went to Orochimaru. Some degree of realism needs to be present within the story, and if after all that has happened Sakura still loves him then it's simply bad story telling, unrealistic and does her character injustice.

 

Sasuke leaving was integral for her to better herself as a ninja. I can say with confidence that Sasuke still sticking around would mean she (and Naruto) would stagnate as ninjas (to some degree with Naruto). Granted Naruto would have still improved to some degree cause of his rivalry with Sasuke, Sakura would have been on a similar level as Ino (who lets be honest, can't compete with Sakura).

 

Her feelings for him changing to something more akin to platonic love makes more sense with the way the panels were structured. Even after all that has happened (with two attempts made on her life as well as over atrocities) you can't abandon him as the end of the day, he is a teammate, you have a shared history and you feel it is your duty to help him as a friend.

 

For it to be believable then Sasuke and Sakura would have needed to spend alone time, where they have a heart to heart / personal conversation where they get to know each other as individuals. After that would need to be supported with compliments on their abilities as ninjas and general friendliness. While these would be minimal in comparison to what NS has received, we would then have SOME idea of the character Sakura fell in love with. If any of what I mentioned happened then I would accept SasuSaku as a viable, to some degree believable pairing. But none of that happened. :)

 

Sasuke hasn't acknowledged her as a ninja.

Sasuke doesn't know her as a person or what her insecurities are.

Sasuke barely considers her a friend.

 

Naruto has the luxury of sharing personal time with her (under the guise of Sasuke early in). He learned more about her and her insecurities, found out they are similar in a way which reaffirmed his affection towards her and has gone out of his way to make her happy, forgoing his own. All stuff she is aware of.

 

If after all of this, the distrust and her continued wariness she still loves him then it's just simply bad writing and further disrespect to her character. It would also make the entire development of NaruSaku pointless. Why even bother.

Edited by Silent Storm, 09 May 2014 - 09:43 PM.

[Inferno180]

Whatever the translations are, it doesn't change the fact that theres still that aspect of mistrust and well, even then, if that love somehow has increased, kishi just made more of an unnecessary puzzle, it would be like NH getting some event again only to vanish to the back, its like then whats the purpose of the other stuff before hand, not to mention the lack of development, its just disjointed in this way. It doesn't show progression, even importance to the story if people somehow infer that its a different feeling yet still somehow love I mean it doesn't make sense like that either. I still literally vomit at this entire thought that if sakura never turned away from loving sasuke, just then what was the point of her needing to learn and grow, you know not merit everything as somehow pointless and all his dirty deeds as just a rough moment in a relationship, doesn't that sound outright retarded to people? This literally just gives Sakura a fodderized role like Hinata is close to becoming. I mean the one good thing about all this is, it doesn't impact NS, i mean sakura can still care for sasuke with NS going forward but just the fact people think she is never going to change or capable of loving naruto, thats the problem. And yet theres still an aspect of future conflict when sasuke makes his move to cause some conflict repeating the whole ashura indra deal one last time. People really think Sakura is going to support sasuke when he does this? Really?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

3. I never said that it isn't love what Hinata and Sakura have but that its false love  Hinata loves Naruto for his nindo what he represents not the person he is her confession to him is a proof of this when she says that "i wanted to be like you" as for Sakura its the false image she created of him based on that she was on the same team as him  but she refused to see the darkness in him and didn't see him as the person he really is  and she had a very low communication with him . All in all like i said NH & SS is false love its not real or true but its not a crush on this i agree with you .

That's kind of a trap to claim that Hinata's love is a false love, what about Kushina's love for Minato?
He was saved by her and he changed her, inst somewhat similar with Hinata reasons to love Naruto?
Naruto changed her with his determination, it doesnt matter if it's admiration or whatever it's a strong love because Naruto changed her way, it's way more legitimate than Sakura's.
It doesnt matter if she only focus on Naruto, it's the negative part of her love even NS has it's negatives too; (NH)which is how she focuses her objectives on the guy whom she grow to love because he changed her.


Main topic:

Didnt give my opinion on Kakashi's matter.
FOr me it depends on his point of view is he judging that Sakura's feelings are changed because of NS interactions or because the summit thing where Sasuke tried to kill her twice?
because if it's the latter it'll have the same value as a kunai being throw at Madara.
Which i'm inclided to think it's the later because it showed Sakura on her childhood and showing her crush towards Sasuke.
I'm believing that Kakashi's statement as the same value as Sai's explanation to Naruto during the summit.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 09 May 2014 - 10:06 PM.

[luffyq1]

1 .Asuma was speaking in general here as in don't lose to her find love before her he didn't specifically said don't lose to Sakura for Sasuke's love

Be that as it may, Ino has only been shown in the series to have feelings for Sasuke. Not Shikamaru or Choji, so it's not illogical to direct that general statement towards the feelings she has for Sasuke.

image

 
 

2. I'm inclined to agree with you more or less about whether its crush or love simply because Kishi referred to it as "not positive love" but if i go by the manga there is no basis for her feelings for him to grow into love if anything her love for him is shallow.

 
Yep. But I wasn't arguing whether or not the love is positive or negative.
 

3. I never said that it isn't love what Hinata and Sakura have but that its false love  Hinata loves Naruto for his nindo what he represents not the person he is her confession to him is a proof of this when she says that "i wanted to be like you" as for Sakura its the false image she created of him based on that she was on the same team as him  but she refused to see the darkness in him and didn't see him as the person he really is  and she had a very low communication with him . All in all like i said NH & SS is false love its not real or true but its not a crush on this i agree with you .

That wasn't directed to you but NS256. Admiration or not, the sincerity of their love is real and just because I loathe Hinata doesn't mean it will cloud my judgement into questioning whether her love is fake and not genuine. Your argument is valid. But like I said, until it's been addressed in the manga instead of outside the manga, I'm going to tread carefully.

Edited by luffyq1, 09 May 2014 - 11:08 PM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

So, to sum everything up: the concept of "love" in the Narutoverse is generally an absolute mess.

[Inferno180]

So, to sum everything up: the concept of "love" in the Narutoverse is generally an absolute mess.

 

More like its a mess due to the aspect of NS being the most developed but people think its only possible as friendship while the other 2 are just so infrequent, people assume they will come because both girls always liked some other guy, despite one of those guys  (Sasuke) not having any reason or nessessity or need/obligation to love Sakura back. Otherwise yeah, its a mess too because NH and SS have such less focus, people assume they should just come because well, screw development and pacing in their eyes.

[TouKen4Life3g]

It's pretty funny when all considered that the most worked up ones are NH/SS yet we just like "Oh the Heat game is on." It's like they need one edge to win but always backfire. Though to be fair, SS got the worst among both of them. It feels like that trip is "You lose" situation because well, where is she?

As one pointed out here, now we're in main event: NS vs. SS. NS is being like Daniel Bryan, fighting two matches of his life yet overcoming all odds. The latter is the toughest of them all especially coming back not yet recovered completely. We won that battle. Now here we are. Want to know the sad part? If Sakura keeps the same feeling, it's a no contest. Not a win, a no freaking contest. Sasuke isn't changing. Sakura isn't talking to him without resorting to be about "what is your plan?!" This is as obvious as it can get. Good god, can it get any worse than this for SS? Something tells me I just jinx it. You know what? I'm not sorry.

So, we're closing in to victory. Hell, we can argue now but let's just have NS moment to say, "See? You lose." I don't get it. Did people forgot 662 and up ordeal? I don't care if it's in the past, even though it's barely, that stuff isn't made for fun. Why? Because you can do many ways than what we have and you all know that. I hope people in here didnt forget. Please people.

So to end this, I ask all of you: what are we doing?

[MangaReader]

How did this spark a "Is Hinata's love real" speculation/convo/debate? :?

 

...

 

Anyway, about Kakashi's whole Sakura thing, what I'm getting from that it is Sakura doesn't want to lose someone important to her. Hence Kakashi saying she's a "kind" girl. Not so much that she still likes him likes him

[Namaenash]

Until the manga ends, I agree that we shouldn't belittle the other pairings or declare certain pairings are dead. Not just for the sake of forum's rules, but also to avoid hurting other people supporting other pairings.

Having said that, if one still doubt whether Sakura's feeling is getting stronger or transformed to nakama, take a look at past interaction between her and sasuke, especially when Naruto is around. Judge for yourself.

Even in this chapter, look at how cold Sasuke is towards Sakura, and compare how warm Naruto is towards her. It really just a matter of time, and small victories like this chapter, only brings Naruto and Sakura closer to admit their feelings to each other.

[Hiraishin]

So, to sum everything up: the concept of "love" in the Narutoverse is generally an absolute mess.

True.

[FireFox]

That's kind of a trap to claim that Hinata's love is a false love, what about Kushina's love for Minato?
He was saved by her and he changed her, inst somewhat similar with Hinata reasons to love Naruto?
Naruto changed her with his determination, it doesnt matter if it's admiration or whatever it's a strong love because Naruto changed her way, it's way more legitimate than Sakura's.
It doesnt matter if she only focus on Naruto, it's only the negative part of her love, which is how she focuses her objectives on the guy whom she grow to love because he changed her.

 He saved her indirectly by her watching him and drawing strength from him she changed by watching him and barely interacting with him , and no its not the same with Kushina and Minato  Minato saved Kushina directly by complementing her the part she hated the most about herself and  by being there for her further more Kushina didn't aspire to be like Minato .  its not the same . Perhaps false love isn't the correct word for Hinata's love but as you say admiration love but still my point was that its not "true love" admiration love and  true love are two different things .

 

Be that as it may, Ino has only been shown in the series to have feelings for Sasuke. Not Shikamaru or Choji, so it's not illogically to direct that general statement towards the feelings she has for Sasuke.

image

 
 

 
Yep. But I wasn't arguing whether or not the love is positive or negative.
 

That wasn't directed to you but NS256. Admiration or not, the sincerity of their love is real and just because I loathe Hinata doesn't mean it will cloud my judgement into questioning whether her love is fake and not genuine. Your argument is valid. But like I said, until it's been addressed in the manga instead of outside the manga, I'm going to tread carefully.

Though I find it strange that Asuma would encourage her to chase a guy that is rogue ninja and has barely interacted with her but Asuma addressed that in general  i would say agree to disagree while its not impossible its also not probable . 

 

About your other points fair enough it's your opinion  .

[MangaReader]

If you say SS because you see the word "like"... I'm sorry for you

 

Not just for the sake of forum's rules, but also to avoid hurting other people supporting other pairings.
 

Oh they seem just fine and not as obliging... besides, we gotta worry about ourselves, a lot of fans here don't seem like fans recently. 

[Inferno180]

Until the manga ends, I agree that we shouldn't belittle the other pairings or declare certain pairings are dead. Not just for the sake of forum's rules, but also to avoid hurting other people supporting other pairings.

Having said that, if one still doubt whether Sakura's feeling is getting stronger or transformed to nakama, take a look at past interaction between her and sasuke, especially when Naruto is around. Judge for yourself.

Even in this chapter, look at how cold Sasuke is towards Sakura, and compare how warm Naruto is towards her. It really just a matter of time, and small victories like this chapter, only brings Naruto and Sakura closer to admit their feelings to each other.

 

As there isnt any point in a clear answer for this stuff until the raws at least come, theres still the fact of:

-That mistrust from 635 plus sasukes other motives, these events go hand in hand

-Sakuras reaction to Sasukes true motives when the time comes

-The rest of the stuff between Naruto and Sakura

 

I mean as much as SS fans are acting up, this didn't in anyway impact NS or just declare SS deadlocked to win.

 

But even then, even if the raws say otherwise, I still have faith in just plain well, character development and plot progression, I mean if SS wasnt something back then, what importance for fulfillment if it was attained, what does it solve? Not much. I mean NS still has plenty of ammo, 663 was still a big leap for us with Sakura outright supporting narutos dream. There still doesnt make sense in a trait that just proved so negative on sakura for so long just to suddenly be merited without any development, this would just make more holes than already presented before this chapter even occured. SS just if anything either declined if her feelings did decrease or became more puzzling if they somehow increased after all these events and its even harder to go on it because there hasnt been anything mutual or good for SS since part 2 began. I mean seriously people thought the land of iron events and 540 was good? It wasnt, it was negative and sorrowful, its not good at all.

 

But until the raws, and that future conflict with naruto and sasuke comes and how sasukes action impacts sakura, we have our views but i still say, sakura is going to change in the end, by not loving sasuke and only seeing him as a friend, one of her key aspects has to be maturing, knowing the difference between ideal love and real love and even then, as said before, just how could an ideal love become the real or mature if its been so conflictive and still one sided? Thats still made this whole claim of it increasing an enigma,

[Gojira]

So when did Kakashi notice Sakura was no longer in love with the sauce, I'd say probably the land of iron arc.

Personally I think she got over him when part 2 began. I think chapter 540 is still debatable

[TouKen4Life3g]

So when did Kakashi notice Sakura was no longer in love with the sauce, I'd say probably the land of iron arc.

Personally I think she got over him when part 2 began. I think chapter 540 is still debatable

I'm starting to think that too. It's weird anime got it right. It's not that it's now an incredible source, but it begs the question: when did this happen? Say all you want about anime and such, but that's something you shouldn't really just mess with. Yes, over glory Hinata stuff, but it doesn't change the character's outlook with each other. That said did we miss the boat and that boat finally came back to tell us, "Where the hell have you been?"