19964 replies to this topic

[T XD]

Guys, some of NH fans will always stick to their pairing no matter what even after Sakura gets with Naruto, which I expect a big storm from them and a lot of bashing , so don't mind them... save your breath.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Guys, some of NH fans will always stick to their pairing no matter what even after Sakura gets with Naruto, which I expect a big storm from them and a lot of bashing , so don't mind them... save your breath.

At least they did not bashed they just told things that were not real and when i replied with manga stuff they vanish.

i took three bans for illiteracy ( i have a bad english) with 1 day-lenght, and now i got a ban for shipping along with 3 Ns shippers and 4 NH shippers.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 23 December 2012 - 11:10 AM.

[Chucky-kun]

Guys, some of NH fans will always stick to their pairing no matter what even after Sakura gets with Naruto, which I expect a big storm from them and a lot of bashing , so don't mind them... save your breath.

Sometimes I get bored... Haha lol.

[六道仙人]

sorry to say this but NH shippter are really hypocrites.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

sorry to say this but NH shippter are really hypocrites.

It's because they like a pairing but their biggest mistake is they try to find reasonable excuses to think that NH can happen, this is the problem they have nothing that can support this pairing and their problem is that they can think that they are capable of doing a debate which always end "stick with your facts that i'll stick with mine".
They should not even start a debate.

[Branden]

No, I'd say NaruHina fans definitely have a fine basis on their pairing.

It's no secret Hinata loves Naruto. She risked her life trying to save him from Pain. Also if you think back to part 1 Naruto started to be more friendly to her with his comment saying "I really like people like you!" or something. That was after she had inspired him. Also with the recent stuff in the manga it's clear that Hinata is getting more attention, also the way Naruto could tell what Hinata was feeling by staring into her eyes. Kiba teasing Naruto about Hinata.

They definitely have a foundation and development with their pairing, it's not like NaruHina has ever been an insane interpretation of the story.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

No, I'd say NaruHina fans definitely have a fine basis on their pairing.

It's no secret Hinata loves Naruto. She risked her life trying to save him from Pain. Also if you think back to part 1 Naruto started to be more friendly to her with his comment saying "I really like people like you!" or something. That was after she had inspired him. Also with the recent stuff in the manga it's clear that Hinata is getting more attention, also the way Naruto could tell what Hinata was feeling by staring into her eyes. Kiba teasing Naruto about Hinata.

They definitely have a foundation and development with their pairing, it's not like NaruHina has ever been an insane interpretation of the story.

The staring into her eyes, he replied her statement it wasnt romantic, "i really like people like you" this is meant to be romantic?, "getting more attention" this does not implies NH in any way, Naruto never replied back or show hint of having feelings for her.
Ino got more panel than hinata too, even shikamaru, also kishi said everyone would get their time, it's too early to make this statement.

[ShippudenGirl]

Honestly, I would not find the pairing *so* bad if it wasn't for the fanbase.. Them alone trying to defend it makes it so.. Distasteful. Now there are rational NaruHina fans (quite rare, but I promise they're out there) that i've spoken to— without them making up horrible excuses about how seemingly "awful" (i'm using the kind words) Sakura is.. You'd be best off having a civilized discussion with them then the ones that think fillers are legit.

And I as well could not comprehend what a NaruHina child would look like...

[Branden]

The staring into her eyes, he replied her statement it wasnt romantic, "i really like people like you" this is meant to be romantic?, "getting more attention" this does not implies NH in any way, Naruto never replied back or show hint of having feelings for her.
Ino got more panel than hinata too, even shikamaru, also kishi said everyone would get their time, it's too early to make this statement.

Denial isn't healthy for a debate thread you know. Who knows what Kishi's intention was. But no matter how you look at it, people still perceived it this way. If NaruHina happened it wouldn't be a huge out of nowhere surprise like it would be for something like, I don't know, Naruto x Ayame. NaruHina may have less to back it up but it's still there. Don't discredit it. It's hard to hold back bias, I know, I'm almost certain every post I make is somehow bias. But still, we can't ignore things, we have to accept them and use logic and reasoning to determine what is the most probable outcome. Using our own fan bias to dispel all other arguments is easy but reflects badly on us. If we instead tried to look at things in a more understanding and unbiased light and then made our arguments supported by our own reasoning then we would probably have a lot less anti-NS fans.

EDIT:

@shippudengirl

I always imagined that any child of Naruto's would have red hair. But the real question is, would a NaruHina child have the Byakugan? That's an interesting lore question. I wonder if the same rules that apply to the Byakugan would apply to the Sharingan and Rinnegan. You're simple statement has just opened up many questions in my mind.

Edited by Branden, 23 December 2012 - 03:14 PM.

[Canadian_DJ]

Man im glad i only got into one naruhina debate.....and i pwned em' all....after that i never stuck my nose in there again.And for those who say that naruto was staring onto hinatas eye's, actually, no naruto had his back towards her the entire time, heck he barely even turned his head towards that girl! look im not trying to convince anyone here these are facts, take em or not, kishi intended on making naruto and sakura lovers from the begining of his manga, and if you actually think masashi is gonna statt developing hinata and naruto, especially now then id love to see how the guy pulls it off it'll be the downfall of his manga, which clearly wont and NEVER will happen.

I might sound biased right now but dude, this is kishis story and quite frankly this is whats going on.

[Branden]

Man im glad i only got into one naruhina debate.....and i pwned em' all....after that i never stuck my nose in there again.And for those who say that naruto was staring onto hinatas eye's, actually, no naruto had his back towards her the entire time, heck he barely even turned his head towards that girl! look im not trying to convince anyone here these are facts, take em or not, kishi intended on making naruto and sakura lovers from the begining of his manga, and if you actually think masashi is gonna statt developing hinata and naruto, especially now then id love to see how the guy pulls it off it'll be the downfall of his manga, which clearly wont and NEVER will happen.

I might sound biased right now but dude, this is kishis story and quite frankly this is whats going on.

The point of my post was suppose to be a lesson, not a subject for debate.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Denial isn't healthy for a debate thread you know. Who knows what Kishi's intention was. But no matter how you look at it, people still perceived it this way. If NaruHina happened it wouldn't be a huge out of nowhere surprise like it would be for something like, I don't know, Naruto x Ayame. NaruHina may have less to back it up but it's still there. Don't discredit it. It's hard to hold back bias, I know, I'm almost certain every post I make is somehow bias. But still, we can't ignore things, we have to accept them and use logic and reasoning to determine what is the most probable outcome. Using our own fan bias to dispel all other arguments is easy but reflects badly on us. If we instead tried to look at things in a more understanding and unbiased light and then made our arguments supported by our own reasoning then we would probably have a lot less anti-NS fans.

I really likes people like you, it's not kishi's intention and neither a romantic statement, i really like people like my friends does this mean i love them? in a romantic way?
It's not a denial, he hasnt show anything for hinata romantically for 614 chapters, NH is out of nowhere it has no development from Naruto's side that's why it's stupid.
I'm not ignoring this is my interpretation, i dont think it's meant to be romantic, Naruto views Hinata as someome who does not have confidence on himself, a weak girl, and other stuff.
The whole in your eyes conversation, who did to be romantic was hinata who bought up, Naruto only replied, and moreover it was a kagebushin.
The whole fight only started and you said that she got a lot of attention c'mon.

People still be perceived this way.

Dude i crossed with NH from another website.
they say that Naruto and Sakura does not have logic and she shows only friendship towards her, making statements from nowhere, based in anything, this arguments is the less of the problems, they only ship the pairing because they want, they do not have fact no matter what they claim.
It's not a matter of showing proofs does not matter because they hate sakura, and they like hinata, it's a matter of my preferences > your preferences.
all the NH debate is a mere My preferences > Your preferences.

In the end they know that their pairing is based on nothing, and they demand that something happen to be used as a example but kishi only trolls them, that hinata confession shortly after we got a sakura's one so hinata wasnt special anymore, RTN movie, MinaKushi being based on Narusaku, Obi/Rin which is too based on Naru/Saku.
All the examples of family on this manga that is connected to Naruto always have a wife/lover/whatever that is a tsundere.

They are desperate.
Just look at 614 hinata just use a palm hand to reflect an attack and then Neji dies because she cant use Kaiten, that was the biggest troll ever she has not any jutsu to counter that.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 23 December 2012 - 04:11 PM.

[Branden]

I really likes people like you, it's not kishi's intention and neither a romantic statement, i really like people like my friends does this mean i love them.
It's not a denial, he hasnt show anything for hinata romantically for 614 chapters, NH is out of nowhere it has no development from Naruto's side that's why it's stupid.
I'm not ignoring this is my interpretation, i dont think it's meant to be romantic, Naruto views Hinata as someome who does not have confidence on himself, a weak girl, and other stuff.
The whole in your eyes conversation, who did to be romantic was hinata who bought up, Naruto only replied, and moreover it was a kagebushin.
The whole fight only started and you said that she got a lot of attention c'mon.

Well compared to the amount of attention she usually gets it's actually been quite high recently.

[KeikoxYusuke]

The mistake here was reading the comments on Sawyer7mage videos reviewing a chapter that Hinata had even the slightest amount of panel time with Naruto. I haven't watch Sawyer's reviews in three weeks. I knew if I did, I would end up debating and then getting pissed off. I figured they'd be shouting "NaruHina Canon!" to the hills on his video so I decided not to even bother. Looks like I was right. I regret nothing.

I realized I'm not really bothered by Sawer7mage's NaruHina bias. He's not a hardcore NH fan, just some preference. It's his followers that make me go apes*t.

Yeah, that's what bothers me too, I don't mind Sawyer most of the time, but I REALLY hated that one video he did... ( he was reveiwing the chapter where a "rock" was assumed to have hit Sakura in the head)

and he was laughing and joking about that being the "highlight" of the chapter....now... I won't be so bothered by this if I wasn't 100% sure he never joked about Hinata getting pwned... It's hard to hear your fave character getting bashed like that... it really is. and you know... I"m ond of Sawyer7mage's subs... I still think he is funny...I just wish he wouldn't do things like that..and yeah, he started the whole Minato and Kushina = NH thing... i one of my debates with one of his followers, I pointed out that it was more of a Nejihina hint...and they called me a sicko...but ...what? It was clearly Neji and Hinata that were in the same position as Kushina and Minato....not Naruto and Hinata.... I explained that part of it...as far as I know... I didn't get a reply back... or they changed the topic... Yeah, I thought it would be fun to have a debate... but no.. not on one of his videos... Maybe I'll go back there when it's become clear that NH is a red herring... but nah, I best not.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Well compared to the amount of attention she usually gets it's actually been quite high recently.

High, compare to shikamaru and ino you will se what's high.
He's developing everyone for this they need screen time, everyone complained that he leave a lot of characters behind and when he do this now where's sakura?
Sakura got a lot of development she will get her time.
The last chapter was neji who got all the attention, she only said two quotes on the last chapter, sorry but this is not enough proof of kishi giving up on sakura and starting to make hinata as the main.

[T XD]

High, compare to shikamaru and ino you will se what's high.
He's developing everyone for this they need screen time, everyone complained that he leave a lot of characters behind and when he do this now where's sakura?
Sakura got a lot of development she will get her time.
The last chapter was neji who got all the attention, she only said two quotes on the last chapter, sorry but this is not enough proof of kishi giving up on sakura and starting to make hinata as the main.

I know that you don't think that way but Kishi isn't even thinking to make such a thing. Why he would do that ? He would have putted Hinata a main character from the beginning of the series and make her character a tsundere too.

Edited by T XD, 23 December 2012 - 06:51 PM.

[redragon88]

So I was watching a video that made reference of how Naruto is more popular than One Piece internationally and yet in Japan itself it's the complete opposite by a big margin. It also mention that by consequence a person that lives in the culture of Japan, and understands its process, can have a better opinion as to what can have better quality when compared to an international fan. That's not to say Naruto has bad quality, it's just that by popular japanese opinion One Piece has a certain higher appeal.

I bring this up because that truly makes me wonder what's the general opinion about pairing in Japan. I don't longer care about that poll that people keep bringing up mainly because it has KakaIru as number one so it was just a poll to find which pairings people found cuter, and given that a yaoi crack couple took first place I doubt that the majority of the people involved in those votes people are the actual majority of the demographic that enjoys Naruto.

General opinions about Sakura, Hinata and pairings in general done by the international audience can maybe be influenced by the culture in which we live in. Take the hate people have toward Sakura for hitting Naruto, some don't even know what the term tsundere is. On the other hand, people belonging to the Japan anime culture would know what that is by heart and understand that Sakura is a pretty nice example of it. Take the overestimation of Hinata and her feelings for Naruto, some might not know that having a secondary character with feelings for the hero is pretty common in many manga/anime stories. But japanese anime fans that see many of those stories already understand that Hinata is not different from the standard shy girl that gets character development with the help of the hero in order to become more expressive.

Of course, that's not to say that if in Japan a certain pairing is the fan preferred it automatically means they'll get together. But knowing which pairing takes prevalence with the fans Kishi aims for could maybe indicate what his intentions might be. It doesn't even have to be their preferred couple, it's just about knowing their opinion about which girl is more likely to end with Naruto given how they see the story developing.

Yet again, that's not to say all of us international fans have a less worthy opinion. It's mostly about the level of immersion and understanding we have of anime culture, and even more specifically the shonen culture. And I want to clarify that quantity does not equate understanding and immersion. Some people might've seen or be reading 4 or 5 manga at the same time, and yet not know what a tsundere is and their relationship with the hero. Therefore, their opinion of Sakura could be extremely different in comparison to if they knew. The same with Hinata and her role as a secondary shy girl.

Anime/Manga have certain stereotypes that tend to appear, and many a mangaka get inspiration from many other stories that can involve those precise stereotype, tweaking them so they can fit their own story. That's not only for Sakura and Hinata, it's for many, if not all, of the characters in his story.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Yeah, that's what bothers me too, I don't mind Sawyer most of the time, but I REALLY hated that one video he did... ( he was reveiwing the chapter where a "rock" was assumed to have hit Sakura in the head)

and he was laughing and joking about that being the "highlight" of the chapter....now... I won't be so bothered by this if I wasn't 100% sure he never joked about Hinata getting pwned... It's hard to hear your fave character getting bashed like that... it really is. and you know... I"m ond of Sawyer7mage's subs... I still think he is funny...I just wish he wouldn't do things like that..and yeah, he started the whole Minato and Kushina = NH thing... i one of my debates with one of his followers, I pointed out that it was more of a Nejihina hint...and they called me a sicko...but ...what? It was clearly Neji and Hinata that were in the same position as Kushina and Minato....not Naruto and Hinata.... I explained that part of it...as far as I know... I didn't get a reply back... or they changed the topic... Yeah, I thought it would be fun to have a debate... but no.. not on one of his videos... Maybe I'll go back there when it's become clear that NH is a red herring... but nah, I best not.

I haven't watched his 614 review (or 613 xD. Or 612 ) and given what you just told me, I have no intention to. And of course he just has to joke about Sakura getting hurt , fueling the fires of Sakura haters/Hinata fantards. It was not the "highlight" of the chapter. And besides, didn't everyone get hit at the same time? Don't just signal out Sakura because you hate her, y'know. It doesn't set a good impression.

Agree. I completely love Sakura. The only character I like more than her is Naruto. Which is why it makes it so much more harder to be a fan of her with all the bashing she gets that she doesn't derserve anymore. I'm one of his subscribers as well. I usually look forward to his reviews 'cause of his humor and stuff (I watch TwilightLink21xx for the logic. ) and I'm usually pretty good at not taking his jokes seriously. But SasuSaku jokes (Degrading Sakura's character), subtle or overt Sakura bashing, Hinata worshipping, and NaruHina just really offend and annoy me. More so his follower's reactions to his jokes though. I'm pretty sure NaruHina would have started spouting the baseless assumptions of MK=NH or "Minato= Hinata or Kushina= Hinata ( Just no). Debating on is videos is like a death sentence. Rabid NHers just frickin drown you. Oh, I will definitely leave my comments on his vids in the next NaruSaku moment. Their reactions will be so funny ...

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 24 December 2012 - 02:29 AM.

[Branden]

So I was watching a video that made reference of how Naruto is more popular than One Piece internationally and yet in Japan itself it's the complete opposite by a big margin. It also mention that by consequence a person that lives in the culture of Japan, and understands its process, can have a better opinion as to what can have better quality when compared to an international fan. That's not to say Naruto has bad quality, it's just that by popular japanese opinion One Piece has a certain higher appeal.

I bring this up because that truly makes me wonder what's the general opinion about pairing in Japan. I don't longer care about that poll that people keep bringing up mainly because it has KakaIru as number one so it was just a poll to find which pairings people found cuter, and given that a yaoi crack couple took first place I doubt that the majority of the people involved in those votes people are the actual majority of the demographic that enjoys Naruto.

General opinions about Sakura, Hinata and pairings in general done by the international audience can maybe be influenced by the culture in which we live in. Take the hate people have toward Sakura for hitting Naruto, some don't even know what the term tsundere is. On the other hand, people belonging to the Japan anime culture would know what that is by heart and understand that Sakura is a pretty nice example of it. Take the overestimation of Hinata and her feelings for Naruto, some might not know that having a secondary character with feelings for the hero is pretty common in many manga/anime stories. But japanese anime fans that see many of those stories already understand that Hinata is not different from the standard shy girl that gets character development with the help of the hero in order to become more expressive.

Of course, that's not to say that if in Japan a certain pairing is the fan preferred it automatically means they'll get together. But knowing which pairing takes prevalence with the fans Kishi aims for could maybe indicate what his intentions might be. It doesn't even have to be their preferred couple, it's just about knowing their opinion about which girl is more likely to end with Naruto given how they see the story developing.

Yet again, that's not to say all of us international fans have a less worthy opinion. It's mostly about the level of immersion and understanding we have of anime culture, and even more specifically the shonen culture. And I want to clarify that quantity does not equate understanding and immersion. Some people might've seen or be reading 4 or 5 manga at the same time, and yet not know what a tsundere is and their relationship with the hero. Therefore, their opinion of Sakura could be extremely different in comparison to if they knew. The same with Hinata and her role as a secondary shy girl.

Anime/Manga have certain stereotypes that tend to appear, and many a mangaka get inspiration from many other stories that can involve those precise stereotype, tweaking them so they can fit their own story. That's not only for Sakura and Hinata, it's for many, if not all, of the characters in his story.

I somewhat agree with this. I believe that Japanese readers have more important beliefs in regards to anime simply because they know the culture and are better equiped to observe and discuss it. They know what the standards are and what it's usually like, what themes are sometimes repeated. Overall they just know the culture of Japan. That is why I believe that they can better asses the manga then those of us who are from other countries.

I for one am certain that in America a majority of people prefer NaruHina. I often hear arguments like "all she does is punch Naruto" or "Sakura is a b*tch". Clearly they can't quite grasp the idea of a Tsundere very well. I am pretty sure that in most cases they don't know what one is or simply choose to hate them despite knowing that they are part of Japanese anime culture.

I come to this conclusion because I am not from Japan and I don't know Japanese culture. However, if your from Japan you most likely know Japanese culture very well.

[neoshadow]

I somewhat agree with this. I believe that Japanese readers have more important beliefs in regards to anime simply because they know the culture and are better equiped to observe and discuss it. They know what the standards are and what it's usually like, what themes are sometimes repeated. Overall they just know the culture of Japan. That is why I believe that they can better asses the manga then those of us who are from other countries.

I for one am certain that in America a majority of people prefer NaruHina. I often hear arguments like "all she does is punch Naruto" or "Sakura is a b*tch". Clearly they can't quite grasp the idea of a Tsundere very well. I am pretty sure that in most cases they don't know what one is or simply choose to hate them despite knowing that they are part of Japanese anime culture.

I come to this conclusion because I am not from Japan and I don't know Japanese culture. However, if your from Japan you most likely know Japanese culture very well.

I totally agree that it is a cultural understanding, those brought up in the country of origin will by and large have an easier time understanding the material and the subtext especially in something like Naruto which draws a lot of it's characters and themes from Japanese myth and legend.

On the subject of Sakura things like "Sakura is an abusive b*tch, all she does is punch Naruto" I often don't see how they can arrive to that conclusion especially in the West where violence as comedy has existed as long as comedy, entire comedic routines or movements have been built around or heavily involve violence, vaudeville or slapstick are a few. To me Sakura hitting Naruto for being an idiot/pervert is no different from Moe beating Larry and Curly for being morons, or is no different from a Looney Tunes cartoon.

Is the tsundere archetype really such a foreign idea to Western anime fans? Other cartoons like The Flintsones have aggressive wives that are also loving, to be honest most sitcoms do. The West has a large tradition of violence for the sake of comedy or violence out of concern and love so I don't really see what about Sakura makes her so different. It often just seems like they don't like Sakura for whatever reason and are just grasping at straws for things to justify that hate.

Also briefly on the point of One Piece, poor One Piece what happened? In Japan your the most popular by far but outside Naruto, Bleach FMA are all more popular. I've seen people say that 4kids ruined it's chances outside of Japan and I guess I can see that, they were probably hoping it would make it more popular like Yu-Gi-Oh.

Edited by neoshadow, 24 December 2012 - 08:13 AM.