1876 replies to this topic

[Pite]

Read federalist no 10! Seriously read it, James Madison was a smart dude.

What about the "fractionalism" you mean the problem with a two-party system?

[Nate River]

People don't have short memories on the Capitol Hill. If yo promise something you're gonna have to go with it or else you're gonna make enemies, and enemies inside your own party are worse than Republicans. As of now we cannot say anything about the cost of the bill.

One thing I just don't want to comment what some congressmen said on the floor. "Communism"?"Socialism"? "Government take over"?" and " Soviet Russia V 2.0"? If that is a congressman then quite frankly I can see why some think that the world is going down hill.

A threat that only has value if enough people in the part think they way Stupak does. If they don't, they won't care.

[Pite]

There were enough Stupak minded congressmen to kill or save the legislation. And whenever there will a partisan vote Stupak will remember whether or not Obama went on with his promise. Also other groups, maybe bigger or smaller might remember the fact that Obama broke his promise and therefore would not cut deals anymore.

[Nate River]

There were enough Stupak minded congressmen to kill or save the legislation. And whenever there will a partisan vote Stupak will remember whether or not Obama went on with his promise. Also other groups, maybe bigger or smaller might remember the fact that Obama broke his promise and therefore would not cut deals anymore.

He was only influential because of unanimous opposition by Republicans and sufficient opposition by "fiscally conservative," a group the leadership wants to oust anyway.

Second, it depends on Stupak being a greater force than a pissed off base.

[Mik3]

Well, it passed. GOP is trying to kill it though.

[Sakura Blossoms]

@Sakura

Senate version is watered down, and much more ineffective than the House version.

I think you may have that a bit backwards but I honestly don't care to get into a debate about it. The bill has passed. We just have to wait and see what comes of it.

[FullmetalNinja25]

Finally after almost a year of just talking about it and hearing both sides bickering like little children the bill finally passed.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

So, may I ask anyone to break down the bill to me? Am I correct in saying that we may not be able to afford this health care thing?

[Mik3]

So, may I ask anyone to break down the bill to me? Am I correct in saying that we may not be able to afford this health care thing?

All I can tell you is, as with anything in politics, it depends on who you ask with the answer you'll get.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

That's true. I was just curious because I have quite a bit of friends accusing him to be Socialist or Communist, and they have been following the bill closer than I, so despite my willingness to stop the accusations, I'm not going to because I lack the knowledge anyway.....

[Pite]

He was only influential because of unanimous opposition by Republicans and sufficient opposition by "fiscally conservative," a group the leadership wants to oust anyway.

Second, it depends on Stupak being a greater force than a pissed off base.

In the recent history, Republicans have been the party of NO. And seeing that this tactic works well with the constituents they'll probably continue to be the party of NO. So they will probably a strong opposition by Republicans. Still the fact that Stupak would be back stabbed might dis compel any other sub groups of Dems. from making deals with the president.

[Insurrection]

These moments are always analyze and always interpreted but no one will really know until it happens. It passed let's see what comes of it.

I however will be avoiding/secretly watching the news punditry and will laugh, it's going to be a s!#$storm tomorrow especially on fox and msnbc. Personally the mention of communist and socialist with no thought of the consequence pisses me off. History is bigger than these idiots.

Who saw Stupak shoot down his own amendment like I did? He was pissed that the Republicans were using his amendment to stop the bill. Then he was called a baby killer by a southern republican, this is going a little far now.

Edited by Insurrection, 22 March 2010 - 05:34 AM.

[Nate River]

In the recent history, Republicans have been the party of NO. And seeing that this tactic works well with the constituents they'll probably continue to be the party of NO. So they will probably a strong opposition by Republicans. Still the fact that Stupak would be back stabbed might dis compel any other sub groups of Dems. from making deals with the president.

As if the Republicans have any obligation to help Obama pas this crap or the Dems have ever been serious about negotiating in good faith...

I doubt he'll have to be back stabbed...if the order conflicts with the law, it's probably worthless and if it doesn't it was unnecessary to begin with. Second, even if Obama doesn't...executive orders can always be undone, by future president's. Undoing this legislation is much harder.

It's a flimsy promise and Stupak knows it. He deserves nothing less than a crushing defeat for such a pathetic sell out. If I were Ben Nelson or Mary Landrieu I'd be laughing my ass off for selling out for so little.

These moments are always analyze and always interpreted but no one will really know until it happens. It passed let's see what comes of it.

Since most of the members here are school age and don't work, many won't see anything for four years. Between now and 2014 all we get are the tax increases. "Benefits" don't kick in until 2014, meaning if it the benefits don't materialize it won't be Obama's problem. He'll either be out of office or a lame duck.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Here are some of the details for the new Healthcare plan:

Video

[Dreamer]

We're screwed, we're gonna sink like the titanic, nah I'm just kidding, I don't know what's going to happen.

[Cloud]

Makes me feel better knowing I have citizenships in two countries that have free health care.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Live (for now) 'historic' signing of the Healthcare bill:

http://news.yahoo.co...ws/ynews_ts1303

[Dreamer]

Live (for now) 'historic' signing of the Healthcare bill:

http://news.yahoo.co...ws/ynews_ts1303

I really wouldn't consider it historical until after it has proven itself to do good instead of harm.

[Nee-sama]

13 Attorneys General sue over Health Care Bill

This could be good or bad depending on an individuals situation, but we'll see where it goes, if anywhere. It kind of reminds me/makes me think of the states that tried to secede from the union because they didn't like President Lincoln.

Edited by Nee-sama, 23 March 2010 - 04:35 PM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

I really wouldn't consider it historical until after it has proven itself to do good instead of harm.

Hence the ' ' around the word 'historic'.