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#681 Darth Krypt

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:07 AM

QUOTE (Codus N @ Dec 28 2012, 11:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You should know that the pairing popularity is sketchy at best over there. There's no 100% confirmation which one is the more popular pairing. But, as I've said before, Hinata is the more popular character compared to Sakura over there. So, from a marketing standpoint, Hinata has more value to the manga. Also, I need to remind you that currently, Naruto chapters are being released officially on SJ Alpha. So, if the editors at Jump have decided to expand on the manga's fanbase, then it's possible they're taking international fans' opinions into consideration. Thus, leading to NH.


In other words, sellout?

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#682 CloudMountainJuror

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:09 AM

QUOTE (Darth Krypt @ Dec 27 2012, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In other words, sellout?

moneymoneymoneymoneymoney...

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#683 Codus N

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:12 AM

Eeeee....yup.

If you've read Bakuman, you wouldn't be surprised if this was the case. There are some draconian editors over there who only care about the manga doing well in ratings and sales. Not the story itself and caring about the mangaka's feelings about his own story. Editors are rotated every once in a while. If Kishi got stuck with an a**hole, then he's screwed. And this chapter convinced me.

Edited by Codus N, 28 December 2012 - 04:12 AM.

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#684 Don-kun

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:13 AM

QUOTE (Codus N @ Dec 27 2012, 11:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You should know that the pairing popularity is sketchy at best over there. There's no 100% confirmation which one is the more popular pairing. But, as I've said before, Hinata is the more popular character compared to Sakura over there. So, from a marketing standpoint, Hinata has more value to the manga. Also, I need to remind you that currently, Naruto chapters are being released officially on SJ Alpha. So, if the editors at Jump have decided to expand on the manga's fanbase, then it's possible they're taking international fans' opinions into consideration. Thus, leading to NH.

Why would I care about fans that are not buying my Manga the same way the fans in my country does, plus the only reason why Hinata was more popular than Sakura was because of the whole Summit arc fiasco, Am pretty sure that after the movie she became very popular again, lastly it wasn't that Hinata was way, but way more popular than Sakura, for example when we compare Naruto's popularity vs Sakura's own, was more of a couple hundred fans had a different opinion worst when we consider that this was right after Sakura's worsts moment since part 2 when she lost a big part of her fanbase.

Edited by Don-kun, 28 December 2012 - 04:17 AM.


#685 Codus N

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:17 AM

QUOTE (Don-kun @ Dec 28 2012, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why would I care about fans that are not buying my Manga the same way the fans in my country does, plus the only reason why Hinata was more popular than Sakura was because of the whole Summit arc fiasco, Am pretty sure that after the movie she became very popular again, lastly it wasn't that Hinata was way, but way more popular than Hinata when we compare Naruto's popularity vs Sakura's own, was more of a couple hundred fans had a different opinion worst when we consider that this was right after Sakura's worsts moment since part 2.


Uhhh... you do know SJ Alpha are paid subscriptions, right?? so if SJ Alpha readers have commented on NH, then it's obvious Kishi is considering their opinions. If he did decide to make NH canon not just from the fans' opinions in Japan but also the ones abroad reading SJ Alpha, it's not that impossible to think so.

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#686 Don-kun

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:43 AM

QUOTE (Codus N @ Dec 28 2012, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Uhhh... you do know SJ Alpha are paid subscriptions, right?? so if SJ Alpha readers have commented on NH, then it's obvious Kishi is considering their opinions. If he did decide to make NH canon not just from the fans' opinions in Japan but also the ones abroad reading SJ Alpha, it's not that impossible to think so.


While I agree with some of your point, the SJ Alpha does not pay Kishi himself is more like the people who own the right for Naruto are making all the money they can make from the story.

On the other hand no Author will feel that he is the owner of his own story if he have to write thing the way the fans want, that's is just plain s*upid.

Kishi might get on Idea of how to draw the fans attention but at the end he will do the story the way he pleases, after all he stated that he already had in mind how Naruto will end and also the final pairing but he just need to find how to go about it.
After all it seems that you are really forgetting RTN and the way many myself including who thought for a moment that this would definitely be a movie for NH and SS and while it would not be consider canon it count as Author intent, but in the end it went NS way.

I see the same with the Manga, NH not so much but SS is very popular in Japan and by focusing on Hinata's character while not saying anything about Naruto feelings or SS is a great way to make all NS fans believes that their development will over come this, NH chances are big right now and since Naruto will be out of the way of a redeemed Sasuke SS might have a chance.

He could keep this up until the near end to keep pairing fans reading his story. Lets face it, if Hinata didn't become a threat to NS the it's obvious that no fan will believe in NH while at the same time it might not be clearing the way for a sunken SS ship.

Edited by Don-kun, 28 December 2012 - 04:48 AM.


#687 dl316bh

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:45 AM

Personally, I blame video games.

They are the cause of all ills!
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#688 Codus N

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:49 AM

QUOTE (Don-kun @ Dec 28 2012, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
While I agree with some of your point, the SJ Alpha does not pay Kishi himself is more like the people who own the right for Naruto are making all the money they can make from the story.

On the other hand no Author will feel that he is the owner of his own story if he have to write thing the way the fans want, that's is just plain s*upid.

Kishi might get on Idea of how to draw the fans attention but at the end he will do the story the way he pleases, after all he stated that he already had in mind how Naruto will end and also the final pairing but he just need to find how to go about it.
After all it seems that you are really forgetting RTN and the way many myself including that this would definitely be a movie for NH and SS and while it would not be consider canon it count as Author intent, but in the end it went NS way.

I see the same with the Manga, NH not so much but SS is very popular in Japan and by focusing on Hinata's character while not saying anything about Naruto feelings and SS is a great way to make all NS fans believes that their development will over come this, NH chances are big right now and since Naruto will be out of the way of a redeemed Sasuke SS might have a chance.

He could keep this up until the near end to keep pairing fans reading his story. Lets face it, if Hinata didn't become a threat to NS the it's obvious that no fan will believe in NH while at the same time it might be clearing the way for SS.


SJ Alpha is a cooperation between Viz and JUMP. So, any profit (partially) from Alpha goes back to JUMP and then later goes to Kishi.

Lastly, I think you severely underestimate the power an editor has. Remember, JUMP employs Kishi. They can just fire him and cancel his series if they want to. Who knows, if JUMP is currently being manned by a dictatorial editorship then it must be extremely painful to work. Not only that, OP is their flagship in Japan, so if they cancel Naruto, they probably wouldn't care.

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#689 KnS

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:50 AM

QUOTE (Nate River @ Dec 27 2012, 07:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The subsequent development changed that, but it could have been done. Likewise with this scene, this could be it. She got what she said she wanted and this could be the end of her development. Nothing in this scene, really demands he proceed any further with it.

I agree. I'm not expecting Hinata to just suddenly disappear from the action, but it's possible that her main focus is over. Or not. I mean, I didn't see Kishimoto forcing her into the plot in this way, when she has had no role up to this point, so who knows. But like others have said, it feels so forced. Contrived and... manufactured, if that makes sense. It's difficult to see how Hinata could possibly be relevant to subsequent events, especially when it comes to Team 7. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.


QUOTE (Nate River @ Dec 27 2012, 07:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
However, this does not make anything canon because there is no distinct reciprocation on Naruto's end and he doesn't really do or saying anything that is inconsistent with what has come before it. It's the same attitude and type of reaction as before and the last time we got anything read on his romantic feelings it was all Sakura. I don't know Japanese culture and maybe this type of hand holding means only one thing there, but the context of what Naruto does here doesn't explicity scream "I love you" and I don't see him resolving such a consistent and naggin plot point with that gesture while Naruto is saying nothing of romance. I think the final resolution will be more explicit (kissing, mutual declarations, etc.).

Yes. You'll notice that all of Naruto's internal dialogue was about being inspired and supported. Kishimoto had to switch to Hinata's thoughts to make it about romantic feelings or any relationship between them. That's a very obvious and important distinction. The only way their interactions ever have any romantic significance or weight is from Hinata's perspective. Kishimoto had a chance to give Naruto a more romantic thought about Hinata -- even if it was as simple as "wow, she really does love me" -- and he didn't. Zip.

Could it be because Naruto is dense and doesn't think about romance in the middle of battle? Sure, it could be that. But his clone still managed to call Sakura "Sakura-chan" -- in the middle of battle, when he saw that she was okay. It's a small tell, perhaps, but it's a tell -- and there has yet to be a single tell where Hinata is concerned. Could Naruto finally have a tell for Hinata? Sure. But it hasn't happened yet, and in my opinion there's just as much reason to believe it will never happen as there is to believe it suddenly will.

Since part I, has any character focused on romantic feelings during fights except Hinata? I can't think of any, but that doesn't mean anything. I'm just curious.


QUOTE (Nate River @ Dec 27 2012, 07:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Finally, I agree with the one step foward two steps back. She says she needs to stand on her own and she does for a few panels and then falls back to crutch mode. The jump seemed abrupt, but given that Neji died it felt appropriate, but rather than standing strong she almost bashfully focuses on that rather than the actual task at hand? Whatever.

Perhaps it's intended as continuity? I mean, her character has always been weak and revolved solely around Naruto. It would be unrealistic for Hinata's romantic focus to have completely transformed in a few moments. Just like it would be unrealistic if Naruto's did....


QUOTE (tricksie @ Dec 27 2012, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I were Obito, I'd really be ticked and want to stomp Naruto into the ground. A friend just dies in his arms, and Naruto is back up in five minutes spouting his ninja way? Obito wanted to hurt Naruto, and he failed. So I could see Obito going after Hinata just to get back at Naruto.

But I could also see him saying "I'll take the thing you love..." then pulling a switch and going after Sakura. Sakura's "death" at Obito's hand would taken down both Naruto and Kakashi. So there's a high collateral damage there. (I say "death" because she would never get killed off. There'd be a reset button somewhere.)

Yeah, my imgination keeps drifting back to this as well. And we know that Obito, and Zetsu on his behalf, has been spying on other characters for ages. It would not be a stretch to discover that Obito already knows/suspects Naruto's feelings for Sakura.

I don't know. Kishimoto has so many irons in the fire right now, it's difficult to guess where he's going to go next. But as I said in my last post, I just don't see Obito stopping his assault on Naruto's psyche. Even Madara commented that Obito seemed very keen on Naruto's response. Since Naruto didn't cave after Neji's death, it seems likely that Obito will up the stakes.




#690 CloudMountainJuror

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:53 AM

QUOTE (dl316bh @ Dec 27 2012, 10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personally, I blame video games.

They are the cause of all ills!

Damn you, Storm 2! You've doomed us allllll! arg.gif

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Fare thee well, Albert, my friend."

 

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#691 Don-kun

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:57 AM

QUOTE (Codus N @ Dec 28 2012, 12:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
SJ Alpha is a cooperation between Viz and JUMP. So, any profit (partially) from Alpha goes back to JUMP and then later goes to Kishi.

Lastly, I think you severely underestimate the power an editor has. Remember, JUMP employs Kishi. They can just fire him and cancel his series if they want to. Who knows, if JUMP is currently being manned by a dictatorial editorship then it must be extremely painful to work. Not only that, OP is their flagship in Japan, so if they cancel Naruto, they probably wouldn't care.


I never ever thought about and Editor power over a Mangaka's story when we have said Mangaka stating that he already fired 4 Editors for not chairing his same view.
If Editors where so powerful as you said then Kishi will never had the power to fire the 1st one in the first place much less 4.

I get what you say but you are forgetting that Naruto is very popular, just like Pokemon, if a Mangaka get fired by someone but his story is really popular then he will get a job from another CO.

#692 dl316bh

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:58 AM

QUOTE (zacrathedemon5 @ Dec 27 2012, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Damn you, Storm 2! You've doomed us allllll! arg.gif

Dammit DOOM! This is all your fault somehow! I just know it! OVER FIFTEEN YEARS LATER, YOUR POISON BEARS FRUIT!

I'm watching you DOOM! And you Mortal Kombat! You can't fool me! This is all your fault! @_____@

Edited by dl316bh, 28 December 2012 - 05:00 AM.

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#693 Codus N

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:02 AM

QUOTE (Don-kun @ Dec 28 2012, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I never ever thought about and Editor power over a Mangaka's story when we have said Mangaka stating that he already fired 4 Editors for not chairing his same view.
If Editors where so powerful as you said then Kishi will never had the power to fire the 1st one in the first place much less 4.

I get what you say but you are forgetting that Naruto is very popular, just like Pokemon, if a Mangaka get fired by someone but his story is really popular then he will get a job from another CO.


Do you have proof Kishi firing his editors?? as far as I know, editors are rotated by the editorials. Mangakas could request for an editor change, but they're usually not taken into account by the editorials.

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#694 dl316bh

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:07 AM

And lo, with but a single chapter, he enraged them. Stoked the fires of those who had trusted him. Brought forth their anger, pulled forth their venom. For they are NaruSaku shippers, and they are...

SCREAMING! SCREAMING FOR VENGEANCE!


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#695 Don-kun

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:08 AM

QUOTE (Codus N @ Dec 28 2012, 01:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do you have proof Kishi firing his editors?? as far as I know, editors are rotated by the editorials. Mangakas could request for an editor change, but they're usually not taken into account by the editorials.

Those rumors were strong in NF, I really didn't focus on it since I don't think it matters but I didn't have a reason to not believe the more invested in Naruto story detail by detail fans.
To me some of those people eat, dream and live for Naruto story something I don't see hare, many people have a life here Naruto is not their only life.

#696 Moon_Girl

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:11 AM

It's a shame I ended up joining these forums around the time this chapter came out. ermm.gif
Any thoughts I have on this chapter would merely be a repeat of what everyone else said.

Geez, my chest had a tight, cold feeling when I first read this chapter. NaruSaku has been my OTP for years (as it has for many others, I'm sure) and I've always strongly believed that NaruSaku was end game. But after this...I'm not sure anymore. Especially with how shaky Kishi now comes off as. I'm going to try and keep my hopes low. I will always love NaruSaku, but...I don't know. If NaruSaku doesn't become canon and NaruHina does, I probably will be jumping ship. Not because I'm not loyal or I don't love the pairing enough. But because it would hurt too much. I've gotten too emotionally attached to the pairing and to stay active in it's fandom would just be too painful. NaruSaku is the main reason why I continue to follow the manga because, like another person said, the manga kind of lost the appeal for me. I used to care less about pairings but I suppose that changed when Part 2 rolled around.

I have a small hope that it'll become canon, but I just don't know anymore. Hinata suddenly taking Sakura's place, Naruto holding Hinata's hand...I don't know anymore. I really don't. While it's true that it's not quite set in stone, it seems like this is where Kishi is going. Everytime Hinata shows up in the war, I keep hoping Sakura will show up, that Sakura will have time to shine. But I only get greeted with more Hinata. (Whom, I admit, I hate.)
What is also bothering me is that this arc has had more Naru <-> Hina mutual development than ever before. Even to the point where third party people are pointing it out. (Kiba's comment.)

Sakura's reaction panel may or may not mean something. It's really hard to tell. Kind of like Hinata's reaction shot when Sakura hugged Naruto in front of everyone. It stood out, but it never meant anything in the end. (At least so far.)

Anyways, I've stopped buying Naruto merchandise until we finally see what pairing is end game.
Sorry for being pessimistic. But it's hard not to.

If Kishi pulls an ObiRin parallel with NaruHina, then I may just quit.


Moving on, does anyone else feel like Naruto isn't Naruto if he falls for Hinata? Maybe it's just me but...I've always seen his love for Sakura as a HUGE part of his character. Naruto just wouldn't be Naruto if he stopped loving Sakura. At least in my eyes.
NaruSaku will always be better than crack and fan fiction
 

#697 Codus N

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:13 AM

I see. Anyways, my sources would be Bakuman. It has a good way of depicting how SJ works. So it's possibly the closest to an official source you could get about Jump's inner workings.

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#698 dl316bh

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:14 AM

BACK UP PLAN TIME

SAKURA/NARUTO/HINATA THREE WAY

OT3

PROBLEMS SOLVED
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#699 CloudMountainJuror

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:14 AM

QUOTE (Moon_Girl @ Dec 28 2012, 12:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Moving on, does anyone else feel like Naruto isn't Naruto if he falls for Hinata? Maybe it's just me but...I've always seen his love for Sakura as a HUGE part of his character. Naruto just wouldn't be Naruto if he stopped loving Sakura. At least in my eyes.

Agreed. It just wouldn't make any sense.

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#700 Phantom_999

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:30 AM

Well. What to say? I can't deny that this shook me as a NS fan but the only thing I keep hope with is that Hinata just snapped Naruto out of a mental break down, that is all. This could be considered like the time Shikamaru helped him get over Jiraiya's death. Remember, at that time Sakura did not comfort him or do anything to make him feel better at all either so this is probably only to let Hinata shine and become a stronger girl like I hope it is and truly inherit the Hyuuga clan name, while at the same time hoping Naruto has not lost interest in Sakura. Anyways, I feel the frustration this is going cause like many of you , as all rabid NH fans are going to throw pies in our faces and laugh at us. but until the manga is over and any implied feelings are resolved, I will just stick with my beliefs and have faith in NS. If Kishimoto was intentionally going to make NH happen than why did he give us NS moments in "Road To Ninja"? I'm not using this as evidence but questioning his intent that IF Naruto and Sakura had the most interaction in that movie and all their teammates and comrades did not make an appearance in that movie while all others did should indicate his plans, wouldn't you think. He stated he has planned the ending in mind since the beginning and It's not going to change , So if he intends NS then it will be NS, but if not I at least enjoy the hints of what could have been. But I highly doubt he would have put all his energy into all those romantic moments for Naruto and Sakura and not have them get together, and here's something that might cheer us up; Echiro Oda, the creator of One Piece said that Kishimoto's wife looked a lot like Sakura the day he got married. smile.gif NOT Hinata, Sakura. wink.gif

Edited by Phantom_999, 28 December 2012 - 05:34 AM.

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