814 replies to this topic

[swagosaurus]

I agree with Phenix; this is a shounen manga. The main hero will always get the girl; Kishi even said he's bad at writing romance. The simplest and most logical route is to have Sakura, the heroine, fall for Naruto, the hero.

Sakura's love for Sasuke at a storytelling standpoint is another obstacle for Naruto to come across. Winning her heart is a goal, alongside saving his friend Sasuke, and becoming Hokage.

Edited by swagosaurus, 22 December 2012 - 01:30 AM.

[redragon88]

Well, Itachi's unconditional love for Sasuke gave Sasuke a pretty big wake up call. In the end Naruto's unwawering support for Sasuke will probably lead to Sasuke's redemption. So the theme is about believing in people and giving them the second chance. And those people waking up to realize that there is another way to live one's life. Naruto's way of love will thriumph over Sasuke's way of hatred. So they won't abandon the devil because they believe the devil can change.

This would be a pretty nice reason for Sasuke and Sakura to be together IF:

- Sasuke would've had as much development towards Sakura as he had with Naruto and Itachi
- Sakura was shown to have an impact in Sasuke's views on the same level Naruto and Itachi do
- Naruto and Sakura didn't have such a great amount of development with each other that has led Sakura to ponder about how she feel about Naruto

From my perspective the previous conditions are nor met or are pretty lacking. That's why I can't imagine them getting together. The conclusion would feel... dry.

Edited by redragon88, 22 December 2012 - 01:35 AM.

[PhenixElite]

Well, Itachi's unconditional love for Sasuke gave Sasuke a pretty big wake up call. In the end Naruto's unwawering support for Sasuke will probably lead to Sasuke's redemption. So the theme is about believing in people and giving them the second chance. And those people waking up to realize that there is another way to live one's life. Naruto's way of love will thriumph over Sasuke's way of hatred. So they won't abandon the devil because they believe the devil can change.

Yes that works for naruto, but not for sakura. She can still like sasuke and see him as a close friend, but she just cant get together with someone who tried to kill her.
you can apply this one to real life:
A woman is married with a Man. After some time the man start hitting the woman. Do you think the woman would stay with someone who hitts her even if he stopps and becomes better after some time? No you cant forget something like this.
Maybe the love for this guy still lasts for some time, but it will fade away after some time.

In case of the manga its also that sasuke has never shown romantic feelings for sakura, also doubt that this will happen after some time. I mean that would be the best scenario: After sasuke is redeemed, he suddenly shows feelings for sakura and all sakura does is automaticly jumping in sasukes arms, and naruto stays alone and has nothing. Great story dont you think? All the development for nothing. All the parrallels for nothing. All the hints for nothing. All the feelings sakura developed for naruto for nothing. This would be the thing that would make the WHOLE manga fall into 100.000.000 pieces. It would be destroyed.

EDIT:
About Sasuke x Naruto: No thats GAY

Edited by PhenixElite, 22 December 2012 - 01:35 AM.

[swagosaurus]

In case of the manga its also that sasuke has never shown romantic feelings for sakura, also doubt that this will happen after some time. I mean that would be the best scenario: After sasuke is redeemed, he suddenly shows feelings for sakura and all sakura does is automaticly jumping in sasukes arms, and naruto stays alone and has nothing. Great story dont you think? All the development for nothing. All the parrallels for nothing. All the hints for nothing. All the feelings sakura developed for naruto for nothing. This would be the thing that would make the WHOLE manga fall into 100.000.000 pieces. It would be destroyed.

but bro he has hinata. dem breasts

Edited by swagosaurus, 22 December 2012 - 01:37 AM.

[PhenixElite]

but bro he has hinata. dem breasts

Yeah happy birthday, he has hinata and has no feelings for her and still loves sakura.

[swagosaurus]

Yeah happy birthday, he has hinata and has no feelings for her and still loves sakura.

unrequited love. all the feels.

I agree though. I think Obito/Rin was made specifically for Naruto/Sakura as a parallel; not just assumptions/inferred like Mina/Kush and Jira/Tsu (is it confirmed Jira/Tsu is a parallel to them?).

Kishi better have something good up his sleeves, or my jimmies are gonna be rustled.

Edited by swagosaurus, 22 December 2012 - 01:42 AM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Yes that works for naruto, but not for sakura. She can still like sasuke and see him as a close friend, but she just cant get together with someone who tried to kill her.
you can apply this one to real life:
A woman is married with a Man. After some time the man start hitting the woman. Do you think the woman would stay with someone who hitts her even if he stopps and becomes better after some time? No you cant forget something like this.
Maybe the love for this guy still lasts for some time, but it will fade away after some time.

Except that after Sasuke gets redeemed he won't be violent jerk anymore (well, he might still be a little bit of a jerk). He literally cannot be horrible violent criminal anymore, if Naruto's messiah no jutsu is to thriumph. He has to become absolutely and completely a good guy. Otherwise Naruto fails. His way of life, believing in people and changing them, fails.

Consider this:

A man hunts down a lot of people, kills them for his enjoyment and to fulfill his existence. One day some guy talks to him and he changes his ways. Do you or do you not elect this guy to lead your local goverment? Because that's Gaara. These people have forgiven worse than Sasuke. They have literally forgiven and befriended massmurderers. This is not real life. In this comic people forgive horrible things and killers change their ways because teenage boy gave them a pep talk.

[swagosaurus]

Except that after Sasuke gets redeemed he won't be violent jerk anymore (well, he might still be a little bit of a jerk). He literally cannot be horrible violent criminal anymore, if Naruto's messiah no jutsu is to thriumph. He has to become absolutely and completely a good guy. Otherwise Naruto fails. His way of life, believing in people and changing them, fails.

Consider this:

A man hunts down a lot of people, kills them for his enjoyment and to fulfill his existence. One day some guy talks to him and he changes his ways. Do you or do you not elect this guy to lead your local goverment? Because that's Gaara. These people have forgiven worse than Sasuke. They have literally forgiven and befriended massmurderers. This is not real life. In this comic people forgive horrible things and killers change their ways because teenage boy gave them a pep talk.

The thing is, when Sasuke gets redeemed, he's not coming back to Konoha.

First off, he's an international criminal. Second, it's the place he hates, and where his whole clan was slaughtered. Why would he want to return? Konoha was never a place where the Uchiha could call home. That's the whole reason there was a coup in the first place; they were oppressed.

As Naruto said in 570; it's not about his promise anymore. It's not about bringing him back to Konoha; it's about saving him from revenge.

Naruto fails if he doesn't save him from himself, not if he becomes good and righteous. IMO, Sasuke's going to be a wanderer, or he's going to die.

Edited by swagosaurus, 22 December 2012 - 01:50 AM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

This would be a pretty nice reason for Sasuke and Sakura to be together IF:

- Sasuke would've had as much development towards Sakura as he had with Naruto and Itachi
- Sakura was shown to have an impact in Sasuke's views on the same level Naruto and Itachi do
- Naruto and Sakura didn't have such a great amount of development with each other that has led Sakura to ponder about how she feel about Naruto

From my perspective the previous conditions are nor met or are pretty lacking. That's why I can't imagine them getting together. The conclusion would feel... dry.

It would have been nice, yeah. No romantic bond in this series has been in the forefront. Not NH, SS nor NS. They all take backseat to NaruSasu, Itachi&Sasuke, Naruto&Jiraiya or Naruto bonding with the person of the arc, be it Nagato or Tsunade or Gaara. As a SS shipper, I think SS has a lot of potential, of which Kishi has used very little. SS is not epic lovestory in the canon, though it has/had the potential to be. If there is an epic lovestory in this manga, it's the platonic story of NaruSasu. They get the biggest moments, their bond drives to story, their confrontation is the one most people can hardly wait for.

The thing is, when Sasuke gets redeemed, he's not coming back to Konoha.

First off, he's an international criminal. Second, it's the place he hates, and where his whole clan was slaughtered. Why would he want to return? Konoha was never a place where the Uchiha could call home. That's the whole reason there was a coup in the first place; they were oppressed.

As Naruto said in 570; it's not about his promise anymore. It's not about bringing him back to Konoha; it's about saving him from revenge.

Naruto fails if he doesn't save him from himself, not if he becomes good and righteous. IMO, Sasuke's going to be a wanderer, or he's going to die.

For the cycle of revenge to end, people will have to forgive Sasuke. Sasuke might leave the village or he might stay. Sakura might go with him or stay in Konoha. We don't know yet. Technically we don't even know that Sasuke will be redeemed at all.

BTW, Naruto wants Sasuke back to Konoha. He just doesn't want it because he promised to Sakura to bring Sasuke back. He wants Sasuke back to Konoha because Sasuke is an important friend. If Sasuke redeems himself and says to Naruto "I wanna stay in Konoha", do you think Naruto will show him the door?

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 22 December 2012 - 01:53 AM.

[Chucky-kun]

Except that after Sasuke gets redeemed he won't be violent jerk anymore (well, he might still be a little bit of a jerk). He literally cannot be horrible violent criminal anymore, if Naruto's messiah no jutsu is to thriumph. He has to become absolutely and completely a good guy. Otherwise Naruto fails. His way of life, believing in people and changing them, fails.

Consider this:

A man hunts down a lot of people, kills them for his enjoyment and to fulfill his existence. One day some guy talks to him and he changes his ways. Do you or do you not elect this guy to lead your local goverment? Because that's Gaara. These people have forgiven worse than Sasuke. They have literally forgiven and befriended massmurderers. This is not real life. In this comic people forgive horrible things and killers change their ways because teenage boy gave them a pep talk.

I don't get how Gaara is worse than Sasuke. Name one person that was worse than Sasuke.

[PhenixElite]

Except that after Sasuke gets redeemed he won't be violent jerk anymore (well, he might still be a little bit of a jerk). He literally cannot be horrible violent criminal anymore, if Naruto's messiah no jutsu is to thriumph. He has to become absolutely and completely a good guy. Otherwise Naruto fails. His way of life, believing in people and changing them, fails.

Consider this:

A man hunts down a lot of people, kills them for his enjoyment and to fulfill his existence. One day some guy talks to him and he changes his ways. Do you or do you not elect this guy to lead your local goverment? Because that's Gaara. These people have forgiven worse than Sasuke. They have literally forgiven and befriended massmurderers. This is not real life. In this comic people forgive horrible things and killers change their ways because teenage boy gave them a pep talk.

HAHA yeah thats all true, but as i said before, its a different thing if you ar together with a person like that.
Answer me that question now: Could you ever be together with someone who nearly killed you, also after he changed and is now a nice guy? for me: As firend yes, but not as love intrest.
You cant compare love with friendship.

Then also if sasuek gets the incredible nice guy after hes redeemed, what was the all the development for sakuras character for? And all those hints? As said it wwould all be useless.

@swagosaurus: Well, thats the way it is

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

I don't get how Gaara is worse than Sasuke. Name one person that was worse than Sasuke.

Gaara, Nagato, Itachi, Orochimaru, the entire Akatsuki terrorist org, Obito, Madara...

Could you ever be together with someone who nearly killed you, also after he changed and is now a nice guy? for me: As firend yes, but not as love intrest.

Maybe. If I loved him. You know that many women actually do stay with their abusers, for better or for worse. The difference is of course that real life is quite a bit different from Naruto the manga's fictional world where anything is possible.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 22 December 2012 - 01:56 AM.

[swagosaurus]

Maybe. If I loved him. You know that many women actually do stay with their abusers, for better or for worse. The difference is of course that real life is quite a bit different from Naruto the manga's fictional world where anything is possible.

If Kishi wanted SS in the end, why would he establish Sakura as the main character's love interest? Why would he have Sasuke have no feelings at all for Sakura besides comradery if SS was to be canon? How would Sakura and Sasuke getting together at the end send a good message?

In the end, it makes no sense. This story is about Naruto achieving his dreams, achieving peace and not giving up. Pretty sure unrequited love isn't any of that.

Edited by swagosaurus, 22 December 2012 - 02:03 AM.

[Chucky-kun]

Gaara, Nagato, Itachi, Orochimaru, the entire Akatsuki terrorist org, Obito, Madara...

I mean, people who actually got accepted BACK into society

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

I mean, people who actually got accepted BACK into society

Still Gaara. Thing is, this cycle of revenge has to stop, Naruto says so. So if Sasuke won't be accepted as part of the society again after he redeems himself, that shows that the cycle is still going on. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Kishi will have the Naruto world forgive Sasuke and accept him back if he lives. Or Kishi can take the easy way out and have Sasuke just die in a heroic sacrifice.

If Kishi wanted SS in the end, why would he establish Sakura as the main character's love interest?

For drama?

Why would he have Sasuke have no feelings at all for Sakura besides comradery if SS was to be canon?

Because love is suffering. Haven't you ever watched Joss Whedon's works?

How would Sakura and Sasuke getting together at the end send a good message?

Unconditional love saves the day? Love someone enough and it will be okay? Just an idea.

Pretty sure unrequited love isn't any of that.

Which is probably why Hinata was created. So if SS happens, Naruto will get over Sakura and fall for her. This way there will be no unrequited love, Naruto will have grown out of it. Again, *if* SS happens.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 22 December 2012 - 02:14 AM.

[PhenixElite]

Gaara, Nagato, Itachi, Orochimaru, the entire Akatsuki terrorist org, Obito, Madara...


Maybe. If I loved him. You know that many women actually do stay with their abusers, for better or for worse. The difference is of course that real life is quite a bit different from Naruto the manga's fictional world where anything is possible.

There we have it"You know that many women actually do stay with their abusers, for better or for worse". Thats how it is in real life sometimes.
Now the next question is: Why should Kishi show something negative like that in his manga? As i said, marks my word: SS would just show the negative sides of love.

SO but now its really time for me to go its already 3am in austria
See ya!

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

There we have it"You know that many women actually do stay with their abusers, for better or for worse". Thats how it is in real life sometimes.
Now the next question is: Why should Kishi show something negative like that in his manga? As i said, marks my word: SS would just show the negative sides of love.

Because Kishi's themes are unconditional love, forgiveness and understanding. In his manga he shows that people who are given second chances grow to be loving and helpful members of society (Gaara) or will some other way prove themselves again (Nagato by sacrificing himself and trusting the world in Naruto's hands). Naruto's love for Sasuke will pull S out of the darkness he is in and help him to become a good, selfless (yes, you read right) person that he once already was. He will get a new start in life and will prove himself worth it. The new start will include a life with Sakura and they will have many beautiful babies and a cute cat. Love saves the day, everybody lives happily ever after. The end.

Or Sasuke will die a horrible death and everybody will gather around his carcass to mock him. Who knows. It's all up to Kishi, of course.

I have to go get some sleep as well.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 22 December 2012 - 02:25 AM.

[swagosaurus]

Because Kishi's themes are unconditional love, forgiveness and understanding. In his manga he shows that people who are given second chances grow to be loving and helpful members of society (Gaara) or will some other way prove themselves again (Nagato by sacrificing himself and trusting the world in Naruto's hands). Naruto's love for Sasuke will pull S out of the darkness he is in and help him to become a good, selfless (yes, you read right) person that he once already was. He will get a new start in life and will prove himself worth it. The new start will include a life with Sakura and they will have many beautiful babies and a cute cat. Love saves the day, everybody lives happily ever after. The end.

Or Sasuke will die a horrible death and everybody will gather around his carcass to mock him. Who knows. It's all up to Kishi, of course.

I have to go get some sleep as well.

except Naruto won't be happy. when was Sasuke ever good and selfless?

Edited by swagosaurus, 22 December 2012 - 02:28 AM.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Because love is suffering. Haven't you ever watched Joss Whedon's works?

Off-topic but proud to say, I know exactly what you're talking about. I shipped far too many Whedon couples and then had my shipper heart torn through sad, tragic cirumstance.

But about SS, the reason why he wouldn't work out is because Kishi has focused on it very little. Let's say, if SasuSaku was focused just as much as NaruSasu, I could see your point. But the problem here is that it hasn't. Sasuke remains completely indifferent to Sakura. He'd kill her in a heartbeat without remorse or at least, he has in the past. I don't believe at all he deserves to be in a relationship with Sakura, even if he did somehow develop feelings for her. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for SasuSaku friendship, mainly because I miss the Team 7 dynamic. But romance? If Sakura continued to love Sasuke to the end, I'd be very disappointed. I just feel it could be so much better for her if she chose Naruto.

Honestly, as a NaruSaku fan, I really want Sasuke to return to Konoha and live. I'm still grudgingly a Sasuke fan and I support Naruto for wanting to bring him back. But I really can't say if Sasuke will come back.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 22 December 2012 - 02:37 AM.

[redragon88]

It would have been nice, yeah. No romantic bond in this series has been in the forefront. Not NH, SS nor NS. They all take backseat to NaruSasu, Itachi&Sasuke, Naruto&Jiraiya or Naruto bonding with the person of the arc, be it Nagato or Tsunade or Gaara. As a SS shipper, I think SS has a lot of potential, of which Kishi has used very little. SS is not epic lovestory in the canon, though it has/had the potential to be. If there is an epic lovestory in this manga, it's the platonic story of NaruSasu. They get the biggest moments, their bond drives to story, their confrontation is the one most people can hardly wait for.

Some times I find myself wishing that Sasuke had been a girl. Everybody would be shipping NaruSasu like there was no tomorrow. But hey, a guy can dream, right?

One thing I know for sure, if this was the story of Sakura and she was the one entrusted to bring Sasuke back then, yeah, SasuSaku all the way, but the manga is called Naruto. Everything revolves around him, and that includes Sasuke and Sakura. It's fine if Sasuke and Sakura have a bond with each other, but what drives the story is the bond Naruto share with each of them. The main one is Sasuke, and not far behind is Sakura.

EDIT: NaruSasu (with Sasuke as a girl), I FREAKING SHIP IT!!!

Edited by redragon88, 22 December 2012 - 02:32 AM.