756 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

lol

 

Sad part is, what DrK said is pretty true, though in the actions of the military and such, I blame that on Shikamaru and Kakashi's ignorance.

[DrK]

 

Sad part is, what DrK said is pretty true, though in the actions of the military and such, I blame that on Shikamaru and Kakashi's ignorance.

It honestly doesn't even make sense. I've ranted before about how it makes no sense that the other four villages allowed Sasuke to go basically unpunished, but when it comes to these matters, wouldn't Naruto need the support of the Konoha council? And why the HELL would a bunch of stuffy council members EVER want to work with Orochimaru? To say nothing about Sasuke. Why would they elect a Hokage in Kakashi who would want to pardon his crimes? Why didn't anyone try to kill him when he was locked up? They could've chopped his balls off afterwards so that they don't even lose the Uchiha.

 

But no, everyone just lives "happily" ever after, completely tolerant of idiotic leaders. Danzo should have lived. This is exactly the kind of dumb kitten that creates people like Danzo. Danzo would have saved Naruto and co from being miserable. He would have had his ROOT kill Sasuke and Orochimaru.

 

I plan on making a post here that will be a list of all the characters that were denied true love or generally made miserable in the end. It will be a long list considering I could include all the characters who that already happened to BEFORE the ending, that were used as an example to never be repeated, in instances that the main characters were supposed to do a better job in.

Edited by DrK, 21 March 2018 - 05:13 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Anyone think the box ghost from Danny phantom is taken more seriously the hinata?

[griff142]

It honestly doesn't even make sense. I've ranted before about how it makes no sense that the other four villages allowed Sasuke to go basically unpunished, but when it comes to these matters, wouldn't Naruto need the support of the Konoha council? And why the HELL would a bunch of stuffy council members EVER want to work with Orochimaru? To say nothing about Sasuke. Why would they elect a Hokage in Kakashi who would want to pardon his crimes? Why didn't anyone try to kill him when he was locked up? They could've chopped his balls off afterwards so that they don't even lose the Uchiha.
 
But no, everyone just lives "happily" ever after, completely tolerant of idiotic leaders. Danzo should have lived. This is exactly the kind of dumb kitten that creates people like Danzo. Danzo would have saved Naruto and co from being miserable. He would have had his ROOT kill Sasuke and Orochimaru.
 
I plan on making a post here that will be a list of all the characters that were denied true love or generally made miserable in the end. It will be a long list considering I could include all the characters who that already happened to BEFORE the ending, that were used as an example to never be repeated, in instances that the main characters were supposed to do a better job in.

It's like there is no justice system anymore. That is why this new ninja world sucks. I don't care how remorseful you are, you have to pay for your crimes. Sasuke and Orchimaru caused so much damage and cost families their loved ones. If my loved one was killed by them, I would them to pay and suffer like I did or at least be sent to prison for life. It is a slap in the face to them. If there is no punishment, then anyone can get away scott free. With Sasuke it could be also favoritism, which is also wrong and you can't do that.

[DrK]

It's like there is no justice system anymore. That is why this new ninja world sucks. I don't care how remorseful you are, you have to pay for your crimes. Sasuke and Orchimaru caused so much damage and cost families their loved ones. If my loved one was killed by them, I would them to pay and suffer like I did or at least be sent to prison for life. It is a slap in the face to them. If there is no punishment, then anyone can get away scott free. With Sasuke it could be also favoritism, which is also wrong and you can't do that.

Yeah Orochimaru killed, tortured and experimented on so many people. Naruto is worse than Danzo for letting him go just because Orochimaru can help him. It's corruption. Kishi doesn't think about the loved ones, I guess.

 

With Sasuke, at a bare minimum, the Iron Country samurai as well as Kumo would demand his death for his murder and or disfigurement of them. Perhaps Naruto, if he got on his hands and knees yet again, could get this reduced to him simply having his chakra sealed and being imprisoned for life. That's all. If Sakura or Naruto tried to give him a conjugal visit, they would demand their deaths as well. Because those samurai don't get to enjoy being alive, why should Sasuke? Just because Sasuke is okay with only having one arm that doesn't mean that A would be.

 

What a jackass Kishi is. It's so ridiculous to think about the way he portrayed A, how insanely headstrong he was, and then think about how this character happily let Sasuke be free to do whatever he wants after A lost his arm because of him. A would only have let it go if Sasuke was made a quadriplegic. Anything less is just making A into a fool.

 

It really makes one thing clear that a lot of people understand already. By the end, he ONLY cared about Naruto and Sasuke being able to reconcile. He didn't give a flying kitten about anything else. That's why none of it makes sense.

Edited by DrK, 21 March 2018 - 01:41 PM.

[jak123]

Yeah Orochimaru killed, tortured and experimented on so many people. Naruto is worse than Danzo for letting him go just because Orochimaru can help him. It's corruption. Kishi doesn't think about the loved ones, I guess.

 

With Sasuke, at a bare minimum, the Iron Country samurai as well as Kumo would demand his death for his murder and or disfigurement of them. Perhaps Naruto, if he got on his hands and knees yet again, could get this reduced to him simply having his chakra sealed and being imprisoned for life. That's all. If Sakura or Naruto tried to give him a conjugal visit, they would demand their deaths as well. Because those samurai don't get to enjoy being alive, why should Sasuke? Just because Sasuke is okay with only having one arm that doesn't mean that A would be.

 

What a jackass Kishi is. It's so ridiculous to think about the way he portrayed A, how insanely headstrong he was, and then think about how this character happily let Sasuke be free to do whatever he wants after A lost his arm because of him. A would only have let it go if Sasuke was made a quadriplegic. Anything less is just making A into a fool.

 

It really makes one thing clear that a lot of people understand already. By the end, he ONLY cared about Naruto and Sasuke being able to reconcile. He didn't give a flying kitten about anything else. That's why none of it makes sense.

Let's list all of Sasuke's crimes:

Working with known fugitive Orochimaru.
Attacking the Kage Summit (basically a terrorist attack).
Killing many Iron Country Samurai.

Attempted murder of multiple Kages.
Murder of a Kage (Danzo technically was Hokage at that point).
Attempted murder of a Leaf Village Kunoichi.
Tried to take over the kittening world with the Infinite Tsukuyomi. 
 

Did I miss anything? 

Once again, it makes no sense that Sasuke was just forgiven for his crimes and he gets the girl WHO HE TRIES TO MURDER! That piece of crap should either be dead or a Rogue Nin.

Edited by jak123, 21 March 2018 - 02:58 PM.

[DrK]

Once again, it makes no sense that Sasuke was just forgiven for his crimes and he gets the girl WHO HE TRIES TO MURDER! That piece of crap should either be dead or a Rogue Nin.

Well, she wasn't supposed to actually be with him. Her holding on to those feelings for him was supposed to be about like saving his immortal soul. I mean, how is she supposed to be with him? She's supposed to be a healer. That means she values human life. So she should have been too disgusted by his actions to still be attracted to him. Her actions in doing so really add insult to injury.

 

Kishi really dehumanized those samurai with their ridiculous power armor, though. The only one who was an actual person was Mifune. All the others, we're supposed to just be okay that they were slaughtered so easily. It's one thing that he killed Danzo who could stand up to him and give him a good fight. But he slaughters all these helpless mooks, and Sakura still loves him? What the kitten is her problem? She's like one of those Westerners who supports Islamic terrorism, with the difference that she still apparently has the respect of her family and friends.

 

This is ridiculous enough without considering that he tried to kill Sakura herself as well! Now it just becomes absurd. But I already made a 4,000 word post in the General forum about that if you want to read it.

[Yyubie]

Sakura is a petal ... flower/trees .... a plant. And what does a plant need to survive? WATER and SUN LIGHT.

Sasuke is a Moon , and his affinity is lightning and fire.

Naruto is a Sun , and his affinity is wind (and this is my guess he suppose to learn water elemental skill).

 

Just based on that you know which one Sakura most compatible with. Sakura will wither and died if she goes with Sasuke and she will bloom and grow if she goes with Naruto.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Yeah Orochimaru killed, tortured and experimented on so many people. Naruto is worse than Danzo for letting him go just because Orochimaru can help him. It's corruption. Kishi doesn't think about the loved ones, I guess.

 

With Sasuke, at a bare minimum, the Iron Country samurai as well as Kumo would demand his death for his murder and or disfigurement of them. Perhaps Naruto, if he got on his hands and knees yet again, could get this reduced to him simply having his chakra sealed and being imprisoned for life. That's all. If Sakura or Naruto tried to give him a conjugal visit, they would demand their deaths as well. Because those samurai don't get to enjoy being alive, why should Sasuke? Just because Sasuke is okay with only having one arm that doesn't mean that A would be.

 

What a jackass Kishi is. It's so ridiculous to think about the way he portrayed A, how insanely headstrong he was, and then think about how this character happily let Sasuke be free to do whatever he wants after A lost his arm because of him. A would only have let it go if Sasuke was made a quadriplegic. Anything less is just making A into a fool.

 

It really makes one thing clear that a lot of people understand already. By the end, he ONLY cared about Naruto and Sasuke being able to reconcile. He didn't give a flying kitten about anything else. That's why none of it makes sense.

Add on to the fact that Orochimaru is the one responsible for Hiruzen's death, one of the people who was closest to Naruto.

With A, it really doesn't matter WHAT Naruto wanted (outside of being the supposed "main character"), because the issue was completely between Kumo and Sasuke, not Naruto and Konoha. And of course, Naruto ONLY does it for Sasuke, but you never see him do the same thing for any other (Konoha) criminal. XP

It's perfectly okay to forgive someone, but still want them punished for their crimes. Like the families of the murder victims of Dylan Roof. All of them forgave him for his crimes, but they didn't get on their hands and knees and beg a judge(s) to let him go free either.

[griff142]

Add on to the fact that Orochimaru is the one responsible for Hiruzen's death, one of the people who was closest to Naruto.
With A, it really doesn't matter WHAT Naruto wanted (outside of being the supposed "main character"), because the issue was completely between Kumo and Sasuke, not Naruto and Konoha. And of course, Naruto ONLY does it for Sasuke, but you never see him do the same thing for any other (Konoha) criminal. XP
It's perfectly okay to forgive someone, but still want them punished for their crimes. Like the families of the murder victims of Dylan Roof. All of them forgave him for his crimes, but they didn't get on their hands and knees and beg a judge(s) to let him go free either.

The old saying goes, " You can forgive, but you never forget." You can forgive the horrible acts these men have made but you can't leave their actions unpunished. It is not like punishing a child where they get a slap on the wrist for being bad. They are adults and they should have known better and they knew the consequences and they knew what they were doing from the start. Also, whose to say they won't become rogue again and kill people. Then, you would be indirectly responsible for allowing that to happen. Naruto had a chance to do something but chose his friend over common sense.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

The old saying goes, " You can forgive, but you never forget." You can forgive the horrible acts these men have made but you can't leave their actions unpunished. It is not like punishing a child where they get a slap on the wrist for being bad. They are adults and they should have known better and they knew the consequences and they knew what they were doing from the start. Also, whose to say they won't become rogue again and kill people. Then, you would be indirectly responsible for allowing that to happen. Naruto had a chance to do something but chose his friend over common sense.

 

Exactly, which is why for my fanfic, I wanted to make Sasuke punished for his initial actions of trying to go to Orochimaru, even with Danzo recruiting him into the Foundation/Root as a hope to have him be killed so he could take him off the bargaining table for Itachi and also to claim his Sharingan for himself, as well as the fact that the level of trust people had in him has dropped a lot. But he will actually work his way to REAL redemption, not that ping-pong crap he went through in the canon, flitting from one extreme to the other.

[griff142]

Exactly, which is why for my fanfic, I wanted to make Sasuke punished for his initial actions of trying to go to Orochimaru, even with Danzo recruiting him into the Foundation/Root as a hope to have him be killed so he could take him off the bargaining table for Itachi and also to claim his Sharingan for himself, as well as the fact that the level of trust people had in him has dropped a lot. But he will actually work his way to REAL redemption, not that ping-pong crap he went through in the canon, flitting from one extreme to the other.

Sounds interesting. The only I could see Sasuke is redeemed is if he was captured during the Retrieval Arc. To me, that will allow enough time to allow him to learn his lesson and realize that path was not the answer and was full of hatred. Not at the end where he has all that baggage with him and having him commit all those horrible deeds. He is too late to be redeemed after that.

[Phantom_999]

you know? Kishi and the executives can claim ALL THEY WANT about how  forgiveness is one of if the MOST important theme in the story but here is the thing. Have any remaining villains EARNED their forgiveness? Have they owned up or taken responsibility for what they have done? have they faced consequences for their actions? Orochimaru is still doing what he was doing before and no one is stopping him. you know that whole "the past is pas, we must look to the future" saying? That is "complete kitten" in the sense that if nothing and no one changes the past become the present and the present will become the future if nothing changes for the better! So again WHAT HAS Mr. "I want your body" White Snake done to earn his redemption and freedom? He has not changed ANYTHING he is doing in the present and I doubt he ever will.  What has even Kabuto done to be able to live the simple life of a foster care giver? Was he not the one what created even more casualties during the war by brining back the most deadly legends in the world? If possible would He also not have brought back all four dead Hokages, the strongest and most dangerous ninjas of all time, to fight for Obito if they were not sealed within Minato's shinigami summoning technique? What has he done to earn his redemption besides that flash back of him remembering his foster mother, and saving that duck butt haired, wangsty little $#&%'s life? And on that topic, Sasuke has showed some of the most megalomania-cal, anti-social, self-serving behaviour out there and does HE face consequences for HIS CHOICES? Nope, because he is the same gender lover of the setting's "ninja jesus" he gets off scott-free and he is STILL the arrogant selfish prick he has always been, even as to go as far as ABANONING the wife and child he made a socially cemented commitment to which again goes back to my statement that the past does NOT remain the past if nothing changes for the better.

 

Naruto's theme of forgiveness is actually the most disgusting and socially damaging message of all and that is because the creator/writer for the series is INCOMPETENT at his job  

Edited by Phantom_999, 22 March 2018 - 05:42 PM.

[DrK]

The worst part is that all of this happens not because of some justice loophole in ninja society, but because of our main characters that we are supposed to admire. The ninja society would have wanted them to die like dogs.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

The old saying goes, " You can forgive, but you never forget." You can forgive the horrible acts these men have made but you can't leave their actions unpunished. It is not like punishing a child where they get a slap on the wrist for being bad. They are adults and they should have known better and they knew the consequences and they knew what they were doing from the start. Also, whose to say they won't become rogue again and kill people. Then, you would be indirectly responsible for allowing that to happen. Naruto had a chance to do something but chose his friend over common sense.

And that was another theme that went on with Orochimaru - Hiruzen and Jiraiya being unable to kill him when they had the chance simply because they let the past times when he was a better person interfere and causing them to allow Orochimaru to escape and continue his horrific experiments and such.

Same thing here with Sasuke. With the way things are, there is nothing stopping Sasuke from going the way of Madara aside from, obviously, biased authors. He could easily go on a mission, then simply disappear off the radar to implement plans.

[jak123]

And that was another theme that went on with Orochimaru - Hiruzen and Jiraiya being unable to kill him when they had the chance simply because they let the past times when he was a better person interfere and causing them to allow Orochimaru to escape and continue his horrific experiments and such.

Same thing here with Sasuke. With the way things are, there is nothing stopping Sasuke from going the way of Madara aside from, obviously, biased authors. He could easily go on a mission, then simply disappear off the radar to implement plans.

I just thought about this. Naruto might have become Hokage, but overall the bad guys won. Orochimaru is given free reign to continue doing what he does. Sasuke got the girl and is allowed to neglect the kitten out of her and roam free despite all of the crimes he's committed. Naruto's main timeline is the darkest timeline.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

you know? Kishi and the executives can claim ALL THEY WANT about how  forgiveness is one of if the MOST important theme in the story but here is the thing. Have any remaining villains EARNED their forgiveness? Have they owned up or taken responsibility for what they have done? have they faced consequences for their actions? Orochimaru is still doing what he was doing before and no one is stopping him. you know that whole "the past is pas, we must look to the future" saying? That is "complete kitten" in the sense that if nothing and no one changes the past become the present and the present will become the future! So again WHAT HAS Mr. "I want your body" White Snake done to earn his redemption and freedom? He has not changed ANYTHING he is doing in the prenet and I doubt he ever will.  What has even Kabuto done to be able to live the simple life of a foster care giver? Was he not the one what created even more casualties during the war by brining back the most deadly legends in the world? If possible would He also not have brought back all four dead Hokages, the strongest and most dangerous ninjas of all time, to fight for Obito if they were not sealed within Minato's shinigami summoning technique? What has he done to earn his redemption besides that flash back of him remembering his foster mother, and saving that littled duck butt haired, wangsty little $#&%'s life? And on that topic, Sasuke has showed some of the most megalomania-cal and anti-social, self-serving behaviour out there and does HE face consequences for HIS CHOICES? Nope, because he is the kitten lover of the setting's "ninja jesus" he gets off scott-free and he is STILL the arrogant selfish prick he has always been which again goes back to my statement that the past does NOT remain the past if nothing changes.

 

Naruto's theme of forgiveness is actually the most disgusting and socially damaging message of all and that is because the creator/writer for the series is INCOMPETENT at his job  

Going by Naruto's version of "forgiveness", we should never have held the Nuremberg Trials after WWII.

We should have simply felt bad for all the Nazis (and Japanese after) who committed war crimes and were instigators of stuff, assume there's some sort of sob story for why they are the way they are and thus it wasn't truly their fault, and just let them all walk away scotf free after reciting a pretty-sounding speech about "believing in people", assuming that they'll then change for the better.

[griff142]

you know? Kishi and the executives can claim ALL THEY WANT about how  forgiveness is one of if the MOST important theme in the story but here is the thing. Have any remaining villains EARNED their forgiveness? Have they owned up or taken responsibility for what they have done? have they faced consequences for their actions? Orochimaru is still doing what he was doing before and no one is stopping him. you know that whole "the past is pas, we must look to the future" saying? That is "complete kitten" in the sense that if nothing and no one changes the past become the present and the present will become the future if nothing changes for the better! So again WHAT HAS Mr. "I want your body" White Snake done to earn his redemption and freedom? He has not changed ANYTHING he is doing in the present and I doubt he ever will.  What has even Kabuto done to be able to live the simple life of a foster care giver? Was he not the one what created even more casualties during the war by brining back the most deadly legends in the world? If possible would He also not have brought back all four dead Hokages, the strongest and most dangerous ninjas of all time, to fight for Obito if they were not sealed within Minato's shinigami summoning technique? What has he done to earn his redemption besides that flash back of him remembering his foster mother, and saving that duck butt haired, wangsty little $#&%'s life? And on that topic, Sasuke has showed some of the most megalomania-cal, anti-social, self-serving behaviour out there and does HE face consequences for HIS CHOICES? Nope, because he is the same gender lover of the setting's "ninja jesus" he gets off scott-free and he is STILL the arrogant selfish prick he has always been, even as to go as far as ABANONING the wife and child he made a socially cemented commitment to which again goes back to my statement that the past does NOT remain the past if nothing changes for the better.
 
Naruto's theme of forgiveness is actually the most disgusting and socially damaging message of all and that is because the creator/writer for the series is INCOMPETENT at his job

Most of the villains didn't really earn any redemption in my opinion. The last that did im my opinion, were Itachi and Nagato. Though Nagato's was kind of weak since it only took Naruto to talk to him and *poof* he started to believed in him. To me, sometimes it takes more than just talking to convince them. That is why I never liked the talk no jutsu.

Edited by griff142, 22 March 2018 - 06:48 PM.

[DrK]

Going by Naruto's version of "forgiveness", we should never have held the Nuremberg Trials after WWII.

We should have simply felt bad for all the Nazis (and Japanese after) who committed war crimes and were instigators of stuff, assume there's some sort of sob story for why they are the way they are and thus it wasn't truly their fault, and just let them all walk away scotf free after reciting a pretty-sounding speech about "believing in people", assuming that they'll then change for the better.

Well, Hitler never tried to kill Eva Braun, so that was a much better love story than anything Kishi wrote.

[griff142]

No kidding, even if I feel everyone in the end is a worse version of themselves.

I agree. Everyone got a downgrade because they were supposed to be the greatest generation to date but they never got a chance to be that. Also to me the bridge scene was the most impactful because like James said, it showed how much she was willing to do for Naruto even sacrifice her life. I would put that hug scene a close second.