19964 replies to this topic

[luffyq1]

The thing is I don't need to come up with my own argument because the answers to your questions have been mentioned multiple times already.

Such a cop out. You make the claim that you would interpret it yourself, yet you didn't follow up on it. And I find the counter arguments to my question weak. Of course all your buddies are going to agree with you for the obvious reasons.

Edited by luffyq1, 17 December 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[Chucky-kun]

Such a cop out. You make the claim that you would interpret it yourself, yet you didn't follow up on it. And I find the counter arguments to my question weak. Of course all your buddies are going to agree with you for the obvious reasons.

And this is why I feel like its pointless to continue. You're just going to keep asking questions "because you can" and we'll just reply with the same answer which you won't accept and you'll just keep going on about how Sakura still loves Sasuke and how one of the top mangaka in the world is a bad writer.

[PhenixElite]

Such a cop out. You make the claim that you would interpret it yourself, yet you didn't follow up on it. And I find the counter arguments to my question weak. Of course all your buddies are going to agree with you for the obvious reasons.

Its just fact. I answered your questions about one week ago. But it just has no use, you will stick to your opinion no matter what we say or going to say. So there is just no need to discuss this theme anymore.

@chucky-kun: sorry seen your post too late.

Edited by PhenixElite, 17 December 2012 - 12:49 PM.

[luffyq1]

And this is why I feel like its pointless to continue. You're just going to keep asking questions "because you can" and we'll just reply with the same answer which you won't accept and you'll just keep going on about how Sakura still loves Sasuke and how one of the top mangaka in the world is a bad writer.

I make an argument that's not NS friendly and everyone automatically disagrees with me because their shipping goggles are strapped on tight, to the point where most users interpret every bad NS scene as an absolutely positive scene. You even have people who think Sakura does not love Sasuke anymore.

I can't even debate in here anymore. Well I can't truly call this a debate since everyone agrees with everything that is positive NS.

I'll be leaving this "debate" now. Thank you for having me.

P.S. quantity does not equal quality.

Edited by luffyq1, 17 December 2012 - 01:17 PM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

And this is why I feel like its pointless to continue. You're just going to keep asking questions "because you can" and we'll just reply with the same answer which you won't accept and you'll just keep going on about how Sakura still loves Sasuke and how one of the top mangaka in the world is a bad writer.

Wellllll...he kinda is. He's very inconsistent, especially with character use.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Tell me the sence in resolving the love triangle by now, in the middle of the war. Its fact that the love triangle is resolved in the very end of the manga. Its not the right ponint now. The love triangle wont resolve without an interaction with sasuke again. What do we have from kishi showing naruto and sakura together? Or sakura beeing sure of her feelings for naruto? Nothing. Thats why the mangaka keep it up to the end.

@luffyq1: i wasnt refering to the consicious love argument. I was refering to you in general.

You did not read my post dont you, they will meet sasuke again after the war, after the battle with the juubi no in the middle of it.

[PhenixElite]

Wellllll...he kinda is. He's very inconsistent, especially with character use.

This can be seen different. I personally have never seen any bad writing from kishis side.
But well opinions are different.

@Darkrerst: i said its unprofitable to resolve the love triangle by now. You answered: Why is it unprofitable. I answered you and now youre saying they will meet sasuke after the war arc. Thats exactly what i said. The love triangle will be resolves as soon as the manga is near the end. All what can happen till then is some character development, but im sure sakura wont be shown 100% sure of her feelings for naruto till the very near end.

Edited by PhenixElite, 17 December 2012 - 01:21 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

This can be seen different. I personally have never seen any bad writing from kishis side.
But well opinions are different.

@Darkrerst: i said its unprofitable to resolve the love triangle by now. You answered: Why is it unprofitable. I answered you and now youre saying they will meet sasuke after the war arc. Thats exactly what i said. The love triangle will be resolves as soon as the manga is near the end. All what can happen till then is some character development, but im sure sakura wont be shown 100% sure of her feelings for naruto till the very near end.

But like i told you before, she can only develop her character if she resolves the drama it can be near the end of the manga, it must be on this arc, and the only space that it got to do it it's after the fight with juubi when they will meet sasuke the next arc which is the last is a development fo sakura like dealing about a possible death of tsunade, and understanding Naruto.

[Chatte]

I make an argument that's not NS friendly and everyone automatically disagrees with me because their shipping goggles are strapped on tight, to the point where most users interpret every bad NS scene as an absolutely positive scene. You even have people who think Sakura does not love Sasuke anymore.

I can't even debate in here anymore. Well I can't truly call this a debate since everyone agrees with everything that is positive NS.

I'll be leaving this "debate" now. Thank you for having me.

P.S. quantity does not equal quality.

I didn't disagree with you, just explained some of your points...why things are the way they are...
But meh, if you feel like it.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

If she loves Sasuke why didn't she betray Naruto as she did before? What do you mean did before? Please don't tell me you're talking about Sakura's confession?

I'm talking about her confession for sasuke, she wanted to stop him then she did her confession adn wanted to go with him, you can say that's love ,selfish i dont care but she really loved him.
To the point that she was willing to become a mere tool for him.
She said that she could not stop him but naruto see there that she really loves sasuke and he felt pain for it.

Why she didn't kill Karin and leave with Sasuke? Lol, she was never going to kill Karin and go with Sasuke. If you honestly believe that then I'm not even going to waste my hands typing back to this post anymore. Sorry, you brought this on yourself with these ridiculous questions.

Nice, you say this argument is ridiculous but does not say why, this is another reason why i asked for this thread to be locked you dont care about the other opinions you say that you re-read the manga but looks like you didnt read the part when sasuke knew that sakura was not capable of doing what he asked.
He said she could go with him, if she kills Karin, if she really had the same love as part 1 she could do it.
She would be selfish, desesperate etc. but it was love.

She tried to kill Sasuke because she doesn't love him anymore? Chapter 484. Debunked.

She could not kill him because she has feelings for him, she thought that her feelings for him would make her strong enough to kill him, this is said on the part where sai is talking to naruto.
The sai in that scene is Kishimoto himself, being inserted on Naruto's world, a lot of writers do this sometimes they incarnate on their characters and start a conversation, most of the things are to make an explanation.
http://www.mangaread...hapter-474.html

She doesn't view him in a romantic light anymore? True. But it damn sure ain't stopping her from loving the guy.

And if she was truly in love with Sasuke she wouldn't left the village ages ago to be with him? Lol, you realize that her confession to him back then was selfish, pathetic, emtional, and desperate. By leaving with Sasuke she would have disregared her family. And she clearly states to Naruto that she couldn't stop him. I can't believe you're backing up this weak argument.

Looks like you dont care to elaborate your arguments you said "weak argument" but does not say why it's weak.
so lets go, her confession was pathetic,weak, emotional, selfish,desperate but it was love, it was a strong love that she had for him, she was willing to do everything for him, it may be all those things you stated but it was love.
She wanted to stop him then she did her confession adn wanted to go with him, you can say that's love ,selfish i dont care but she really loved him.
To the point that she was willing to become a mere tool for him.
She said that she could not stop him but naruto see there that she really loves sasuke and he felt pain for it.

And look at how it's funny.
She did almost the same thing in that confession for naruto, she was desperate, emotional, pathetic, in that confession she did for Naruto, she do this when under a emotional pressure, it's a sign of an authentic love , the difference it wasnt selfish like she did for sasuke.
She told naruto a half truth it cannot be labeled as a lie.

So in the end like Paptala said the things you said it's just a mere opinion, you lack evidences and proof to prove most of your arguments.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 17 December 2012 - 02:04 PM.

[PhenixElite]

But like i told you before, she can only develop her character if she resolves the drama it can be near the end of the manga, it must be on this arc, and the only space that it got to do it it's after the fight with juubi when they will meet sasuke the next arc which is the last is a development fo sakura like dealing about a possible death of tsunade, and understanding Naruto.

Agreed in some kind.
From now i will stick to the idea of obito realiizing sakura as narutos rin as soon as she aids naruto because of his shoulder.

[tricksie]

No worries. The thread isn't going to be locked. But trollish comments definitely need to be dealt with. As a general reminder, fair debate is one that is respectful of both sides, even when you disagree. Personal attacks are not tolerated on H&E. Earn enough official warnings on this point and you'll find yourself banned. So keep up the good debate everyone, and I'll deal with the individuals through pm.

[CloudMountainJuror]

This can be seen different. I personally have never seen any bad writing from kishis side.
But well opinions are different.

That's true, opinions are different. But, for specifics, I'll try to explain my point of view as best I can.

One individual moment that stuck out to me was Madara breaking free of the edo tensei limitations just like he did. Felt very sudden and..well, stupid.

His character use is really off the charts, too. By introducing so many new characters and focusing so little on the ones we already know, he made us care less and less about what was happening to the point where literally no tension was felt anymore. Not to mention how pretty much no major characters died until very, very recently. That kind of procrastination made us feel like the characters we've grown to care about were totally safe, removing any extra tension we may have had.

That's actually my biggest problem with Kishi: how he stopped focusing on the K11 and others in favor of new characters that aren't necessary to develop. For example, yes, I liked the fight between Darui and the Gold/Silver brothers, but the manga would have been much better off with that fight cut out completely. The pacing would have been immensely improved and we would have possibly had more time with characters we're already attached to.

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 17 December 2012 - 02:48 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

That's true, opinions are different. But, for specifics, I'll try to explain my point of view as best I can.

One individual moment that stuck out to me was Madara breaking free of the edo tensei limitations just like he did. Felt very sudden and..well, stupid.

His character use is really off the charts, too. By introducing so many new characters and focusing so little on the ones we already know, he made us care less and less about what was happening to the point where literally no tension was felt anymore. Not to mention how pretty much no major characters died until very, very recently. That kind of procrastination made us feel like the characters we've grown to care about were totally safe, removing any extra tension we may have had.

That's actually my biggest problem with Kishi: how he stopped focusing on the K11 and others in favor of new characters that aren't necessary to develop. For example, yes, I liked the fight between Darui and the Gold/Silver brothers, but the manga would have been much better off with that fight cut out completely. The pacing would have been immensely improved and we would have possibly had more time with characters we're already attached to.

A battle of chyo-baa vs sakura would be more interesting for sakura's character development, or a fight for rock lee that was completely forgotten on shippuuden.

[PhenixElite]

That's true, opinions are different. But, for specifics, I'll try to explain my point of view as best I can.

One individual moment that stuck out to me was Madara breaking free of the edo tensei limitations just like he did. Felt very sudden and..well, stupid.

His character use is really off the charts, too. By introducing so many new characters and focusing so little on the ones we already know, he made us care less and less about what was happening to the point where literally no tension was felt anymore. Not to mention how pretty much no major characters died until very, very recently. That kind of procrastination made us feel like the characters we've grown to care about were totally safe, removing any extra tension we may have had.

That's actually my biggest problem with Kishi: how he stopped focusing on the K11 and others in favor of new characters that aren't necessary to develop. For example, yes, I liked the fight between Darui and the Gold/Silver brothers, but the manga would have been much better off with that fight cut out completely. The pacing would have been immensely improved and we would have possibly had more time with characters we're already attached to.

Yeah, that maybe true but for me it seemed like he wanted to show what the shinobi alliance is made of with giving some focus to the characters in there.
Of course things can always been done better, but nobody is perfect.

[CloudMountainJuror]

A battle of chyo-baa vs sakura would be more interesting for sakura's character development, or a fight for rock lee that was completely forgotten on shippuuden.

Exactly. Sakura vs. Chiyo and Lee vs. Kimimaro would have been more interesting than Samurai man vs. Hanzou, or Gaara vs. generic-sarcastic-kage-man because we're familiar with the characters (yeah, we're familiar with Gaara, but the point is that we'd know who they were fighting also).

Instead Kishi had Naruto send a clone to take care of those two and they kicked Naruto's ass, then nothing was done about them and they were left to slaughter hundreds with their deadly abilities until Kabuto disabled the edo tensei.

Yeah, that maybe true but for me it seemed like he wanted to show what the shinobi alliance is made of with giving some focus to the characters in there.
Of course things can always been done better, but nobody is perfect.

But by focusing on them, the pacing was wrecked and the tension lost. Kishi's biggest mistake, for me, was shifting the focus of the manga from the K11 and etc. to trying to focus on the whole shinobi world. Instead of using the war to showcase plot development, he used plot development to showcase the war.

Yeah, nobody is perfect. I was never expecting Kishi to be perfect, either. But I was expecting better from him. What made Part 1 of Naruto so great was the focus it had and gradual build-up of our feelings for the K11; the Sasuke retrieval arc highlighted this. Kishi worked best with a smaller cast and character focus.

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 17 December 2012 - 03:27 PM.

[PhenixElite]

Exactly. Sakura vs. Chiyo and Lee vs. Kimimaro would have been more interesting than Samurai man vs. Hanzou or Gaara vs. generic-sarcastic-kage-man because we're familiar with the characters (yeah, we're familiar with Gaara, but the point is that we'd know who they were fighting also).

Instead Kishi had Naruto send a clone to take care of those two and they kicked Naruto's ass, then nothing was done about them and they were left to slaughter hundreds with their deadly abilities until Kabuto disabled the edo tensei.


But by focusing on them, the pacing was wrecked and the tension lost. Kishi's biggest mistake, for me, was shifting the focus of the manga from the K11 and etc. to trying to focus on the whole shinobi world. Instead of using the war to showcase plot development, he used plot development to showcase the war.

Yeah, nobody is perfect. I was never expecting Kishi to be perfect, either. But I was expecting better from him. What made Part 1 of Naruto so great was the focus it had and gradual build-up of our feelings for the K11; the Sasuke retrieval arc highlighted this. Kishi worked best with a smaller cast and character focus.

Yeah the war arc isnt my favourite also, but i liked how the naruto clones bashed everyone. But it also would be kind of strange to form a alliance of all shinobi of the world but the only focus is on the K11. I thibk it was needed to show the alliance fighting, also to get a better picture of the size of the war. Maybe tgere was too much focus on the alliance but thats just the way it is.

[Canadian_DJ]

Agreed!

Agreed!! (lol y'see the inception right there lol)

Luffy why cant you just get it through your head that sakura loves naruto!! :O

Kishi said in his interview "As we can see from sakuras speech she loved sasuke, narutos close" i didn't write it in the exact same context cuz i dont remember, masashi also said in another interview that he felt like making sakura an honest and determined girl in her confession.Go read nostradamus's rant if you want the precise info.

Look ar all the development that happened in the manga, its as clear as day, this isn't something us narusaku fans are making up, these are facts ao dont go comparing is to some of the ignorant NH fans out there.Look man im not going against you or anything in fact some things you said have some logic.I dont know how much more evidence from the manga you want to actually believe that sakura loves naruto, shes not there yet but she definetly loves him and she'll soon come to realize this.

Unlike your posts im actually giving some points for sakuras love for naruto, but you sir are not giving any facts from the manga to back your arguments up, you just rant, but no facts.Look it doesn't even seem like your a narusaku fan, your just stating the negative side of everything without looking on the bright side, i know its not good to always be smiles and sunshine and brush off the downs, im not gonna kid ya, but you sir are just going over board it almost looks like your trolling or something, not that you are man.

Look at all the development that happened in the manga and see for yourself, if thats still not enough, what do you want kishi to come to your door sit you in his lap and tell you everythings that happened in the manga so he could be a good writer? no sir.Kishi is doing fine with his story, heck not everyones perfect cut the guy some slack.

If your really fed up (which seems like it) i advise you to go rant with some other non-pairing FC in sure you'll find it much easier to debate here cuz you'll probably get more people to agree with you on your claims.

I dunno if you actually had a point to your arguments i wouldn't mind, but no, we'd just be debating about anything, and everything would be cool than BAM you just pop outta knowhere with your negativity and bang there ya go another sh** storm cycle that grew from the seed; your negative pointless post, now dont get me wrong i dont have ANYTHING against you, but it just feels like you dont wanna think twice about anyones opinions, i mean i for one read your posts and respect them and understand where your going, but dont be ridiculously negative, and not all smiles and sunshine, be balanced.

And again dont take this poat as something against you or a means of argument, i come in peace lol im not here to bash or anything, so spare yourself, and all of us the tiresome posts, whats thr fun? if we keep this up the thread'll be closed.Keep it clean and....debate lol im not sure how to wrap this up but yeah pretty much eh...

[{Jade~Rabbit}]

I make an argument that's not NS friendly and everyone automatically disagrees with me because their shipping goggles are strapped on tight, to the point where most users interpret every bad NS scene as an absolutely positive scene. You even have people who think Sakura does not love Sasuke anymore.

I can't even debate in here anymore. Well I can't truly call this a debate since everyone agrees with everything that is positive NS.

I'll be leaving this "debate" now. Thank you for having me.

P.S. quantity does not equal quality.

I don't even have shipping goggles on. I've never been one to argue if I have a bias with something. It's just like I'm able to defend ShikaTema despite not even being a fan of the two. I defended NS before I became a fan and now that I am one it's just the same for me. I don't see things as black and white for NS. I see gray, off-white, brown, black AND white.

I will say the worst scene for NS to me was the confession. Mostly because of how it was done and the reactions that Naruto and everyone else gave. However, after Kishi explained through Sai (and in his interview) what Sakura's real motive was, I'm not 100% proud of her for it, more or less I found it all embarrassing for her but thinking of her true intent, I guess I've cut her some slack.

I for one admit that I do NOT think Sakura is over Sasuke and in love with Naruto now. What I do think is that she's at a crossroads with potential HIGH potential to see that she doesn't love Sasuke and feels a stronger connection with Naruto. I say this because I see Sakura growing up now. Every time she's confessed, it was a desperate means to convince the men she gave it to - to return with her and not leave her. I'm not saying she doesn't love Sasuke, but I do think that just like with Naruto, she tried to use 'love' as a reason to get what she wanted.

Kishi has said Sakura is selfish, but stubborn and determined. She doesn't quit. This is why I see her confessions and mistakes as a means for Sakura to realize that the world doesn't revolve around her and the men in her life are not going to listen to her just because she 'feels' for them - she's got to take action and take their feelings into consideration too.

I think that the next time Sakura realizes her feelings for ANYONE (hopefully Naruto), she will realize she doesn't need to 'confess' or anything - instead she needs to remember Yamato's words to her, understand her feelings - think about (Naruto's) and just be there for him and love him.

Sakura's confession to Sasuke did nothing for her chances with him. Sakura's confession to Naruto upset him. Moreso, Hinata's confession to Naruto hasn't changed a thing between them either (except made Naruto really realize she is a special friend to him along with Sakura, Lee, Neji, Kiba, etc etc)

No romance in this manga has happened because of a confession. Minato and Kushina didn't confess to each other by saying "I'm in love with you" or "I love you". Instead, he saved her and complimented her hair - leading to her falling in love with him. There was no dramatic confession. Same with Kurenai and Asuma, Fugaku and Mikoto (have yet to learn how they hooked up... but mentioning them for some future reference maybe), or any other pairs.

Maybe that's why Naruto won't say anything, because he'd rather show Sakura he loves her than say it. Sai could see this too. The only one who seems to not noticed was Sakura. I think Sakura needs to stop confessing and instead, like Yamato 'said', remember it's not about what she does for him (Naruto), but it is about how she feels.

Love doesn't need confessions to work, it needs comfort and the knowledge that the other person feels the same as you do.

[Zatheko]

I make an argument that's not NS friendly and everyone automatically disagrees with me because their shipping goggles are strapped on tight, to the point where most users interpret every bad NS scene as an absolutely positive scene. You even have people who think Sakura does not love Sasuke anymore.

I can't even debate in here anymore. Well I can't truly call this a debate since everyone agrees with everything that is positive NS.

I'll be leaving this "debate" now. Thank you for having me.

P.S. quantity does not equal quality.

It's not that, it's that you keep saying "sakura loves sasuke still" and this is what I have to say to that... "who cares!?" It's obvious that sakura cares for naruto more than sasuke by this point, the fact that she puts him ahead of sasuke proves that. If she loves both of them so what? You seem to be the only one here who has a problem with her loving two people and then you get mad at others who don't care if she has feeling for sasuke, I believe her feelings for naruto outwiegh her feelings for sasuke and with that it brings me to the conclusion of who the hell cares if she still has feelings for sasuke (even if its the sasuke of the past) because her feelings for naruto are stronger.