4869 replies to this topic

[DasDeke]

You know, I wonder when that poster from NF started watching/reading a series called Sasuke, because I always thought it was called Naruto. In response to that argument, the whole 'healer' thing, first off, Sakura's realization did not come then that her path was one of a medical ninja. She was awed, sure, but that means little in contrast to the bigger picture. It is later when she meets Naruto in the hospital and he's mostly dead after she sent him off to his death! (Which is what it would have been without the fox.) He went willingly, but I'm sure she was feeling a mountain of guilt, you know why? Because she could do nothing for either of her boys.


She couldn't stop Sasuke, and she couldn't help Naruto who nearly killed himself for her and what he felt would be her happiness. So, as showin in the manga and possibly the anime, Tsunade had said that a medical ninja has to have had loss, and has to have those things worth working for, and Tsunade thinks of Dan and Nawaki. Sakura thinks of Naruto and Sasuke in those ways, but it doesn't show say which is who. Now, yes, Sasuke, the one who has become a villain needs healing? Well, he needs it, but he won't accept it. He'll accept the devil's fruit. He'll accept the fast path to power. Naruto on the other hand needs healing as well. Naruto's even worse off. At least Sasuke was able to exert his will to stop the power of the Cursed Seal. Naruto on the other hand has an age-old demon that the most powerful of the village couldn't stop with a weakening seal hampering his efforts.

Not only that, Naruto's healing needs to continue on so many levels. He has spent his life shunned, but he has friends now, thank goodness. Sasuke lost his family, but he decided to emo out and avoided friends because ... well, he's an emo-child. Well, let's not bash here and say he avoided others because they would impede his avenger goal. Sasuke's damage is self-inflicted, Naruto's is inflicted upon him by other forces. You can't heal what someone does to themselves, because they'll do it again. Sasuke's going to need to accept that he's wrong at some point and ask for help, before he can get any, and the healing he needs isn't physical or emotional, it's psychological. Sakura didn't get any kind of psych degree while I wasn't watching, did she?

Naruto's wounds on the other hand, are both physical and emotional (and some parts psychological as well) and they are being caused to him by outside forces. Hatred of the villagers, and the cruel fate of the Jinchuuriki, and his own despair and feelings of worthlessness, to the point where he'll go 4-tailed to beat Orochi. Bah. Naruto would want help. He needs it. He simply isn't getting it. He almost never does. He does get the rare bit of support here and there, but mostly, he's on his own.

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

A good example is the whole Kakashi stating he really did believe Naruto would surpass the Yondaime when Yamato /Denzou thought he was just giving Naruto words of encouragement. Sadly, this is the only example, other than Neji's 'you have better eyes than me' where Naruto is getting praised by an equal or superior.'

The argument is merely his supposition, no actual visual or written proof exists. Nothing shows that Sakura made her decision there in the hospital room. It was made afterwards, when she declared she would not be a burden any more, to Naruto.

Wow, that was a great way of putting things! :thumbs:

You should post that over on the SasuSaku & NaruSaku->Debate Square, show off your stuff! http://z7.invisionfr...hp?showtopic=55

[Nick Soapdish]

http://forums.naruto...=86148&page=197

This warrants a place in my voiced rant.

First off, they really should not mock others of something they themselves are guilty as sin of commiting as well. That's like someone who mocks those who are addicted to pornography yet are just as obsessed.

Second, they shouldn't create mass generalizations about the entire fanbase based on a couple of posts in which people were just messing around and having a good time. God, they are looking for whatever excuse they can find to deepen their obsessions and make their opposing fandom look bad (AKA mudslinging in political debates). Why do they automatically accept whatever anybody else says to them no matter how irresponsible it is? The amount of ad hominem arguments there is...ugh...

That goes both ways.

I've noticed a number of NaruSaku fans making broad generalizations about SasuSaku and NaruHina fans, including myself at times. I can't really decide which is more annoying - us, because it makes us look bad or them, because I don't especially care to be on the receiving side and it's tough not to suspect that they're referring to you when the accusation is on a thread with only a couple NaruSaku debaters.

The simplest solution is to just ignore it. Most of the insults are going to be in the FCs or anti-FCs. Not sure if it's necessarily the best, but I find it the least stressful.

[Random Nobody]

http://forums.naruto...=86148&page=197

This warrants a place in my voiced rant.

First off, they really should not mock others of something they themselves are guilty as sin of commiting as well. That's like someone who mocks those who are addicted to pornography yet are just as obsessed.

Second, they shouldn't create mass generalizations about the entire fanbase based on a couple of posts in which people were just messing around and having a good time. God, they are looking for whatever excuse they can find to deepen their obsessions and make their opposing fandom look bad (AKA mudslinging in political debates). Why do they automatically accept whatever anybody else says to them no matter how irresponsible it is? The amount of ad hominem arguments there is...ugh...

That goes both ways.

I've noticed a number of NaruSaku fans making broad generalizations about SasuSaku and NaruHina fans, including myself at times. I can't really decide which is more annoying - us, because it makes us look bad or them, because I don't especially care to be on the receiving side and it's tough not to suspect that they're referring to you when the accusation is on a thread with only a couple NaruSaku debaters.

The simplest solution is to just ignore it. Most of the insults are going to be in the FCs or anti-FCs. Not sure if it's necessarily the best, but I find it the least stressful.

That does seem to be the best course of action. The only thing about it that got me mad was that they kept acting like everyone in that topic was saying stuff like that. I know that not everyone was planning on bashing and they just ignored those people because they couldn't make generalizations about them. Still I guess we all do generalize about the opposite fandoms at times, probably because we want to think our fandom is somehow better than theirs when in reality it isn't.

[Last Raven]

That does seem to be the best course of action. The only thing about it that got me mad was that they kept acting like everyone in that topic was saying stuff like that. I know that not everyone was planning on bashing and they just ignored those people because they couldn't make generalizations about them. Still I guess we all do generalize about the opposite fandoms at times, probably because we want to think our fandom is somehow better than theirs when in reality it isn't.

Basically, the rant is going to learn much more towards humor and i'm basically going to focus the attack on the arguments, not the debators. I might do some funny voices for comedic effect but...yeah. Technically, the first part will attack the debates in general, then moves on to why NaruHina is pretty much dead in the water, then it moves on to why SasuSaku is terribly unlikely at this point in the manga. Next is why I like NaruSaku and I cover some key points in it's development (including a debunk of some of their resposnes to Chapters 296-7 for kicks), then some final words and some kickass ending music.

By the way, what exactly are some of their responses to Chapter 296-7 and why are they weak and/or invalid? It'll make the rant a lot "juicier".

Why am I doing this? Because I come in the power of the Holy Name, b*tch!!!!

(/joke)

Ah, not really. I'm just tired of all these debates and I feel like ranting. Not gonna post it on NF or anything, just to get this stuff off my chest.

[gamerman_007]

It's a post in the anti-club and the writer said that it's biased and a matter of their opinion. It's not a debate post.

That's pathetic. They make a comment, knowing full well that someone's gonna comment on it. Then when it gets torn to bits debated against, they claim it's not debatable.

That's sad. If you're gonna make a comment on the public net, you should know that someone may debate it. Claiming it's an opinion should not protect the post (or poster) from criticism.

(@ Everyone who uses "it's an opinion" to protect themselves)
You typed it out, now grow some balls and own up to it!

[/ I felt like ranting]

[Silent Shinobi]

Heh, ppl so misuse the whole "I'm entitled to my opinion" bit. Certainly, everyone is entitled to their opinion. That doesn't mean your opinion can't be wrong.

"When all is said and done, only one truth prevails".

[Hopestar]

Nice clitche from Case Closed or Detective Cohan

[gamerman_007]

Heh, ppl so misuse the whole "I'm entitled to my opinion" bit. Certainly, everyone is entitled to their opinion. That doesn't mean your opinion can't be wrong.

"When all is said and done, only one truth prevails".

That truth being NaruSaku is canon!

XDDDDDDDDDDDDD

But seriously, opinions are opinions. Opinions can be steeped in BS, or backed by truth. But once it's posted on the public internet, it can and might be debated. If you don't want someone to debate your opinion then no one should comment on it either. Since debating it is pretty much the same thing as commenting.

[Nick Soapdish]

Ultimately, almost everything in the debates is going to be an opinion, at least in the interpretation of the facts.

But saying "it's just an opinion" tacitly acknowledges that the belief expressed isn't especially supported by the facts even if it may in fact be correct.

For example, I've said that think that deep down, Neji is quiet, sensitive, and introspective, maybe the artistic sort. A lot of the reason for that is because that was my first impression of him because I first saw him in the first Rescue Sasuke arc. When I went back and saw the earlier Neji and flashbacks to his childhood, the Neji that we are first introduced to seemed to be more of a hiccup to his character so I still hold that opinion, but that it's been buried by the interim. I don't consider my opinion to be especially well-supported by the facts, although I can make somewhat of a case for it. So I wouldn't be especially amused by an anti-NejiHina fan arguing that all the NejiHina fans are idiots because they think that Kishi intended us to read it out of order and get that first impression. (On second thought, I would if that was the best counter-argument that they could muster up. )

So as long as the "just an opinion" stuff isn't dragged into the debate threads, I don't see a need to argue them. It's already been conceded that there isn't much evidence for them.

In my opinion, of course.

As to the post being from the anti-fanclub instead of a debate thread, remember that while it is a public forum, it's a bit more casual than the debate thread. People are going to be just chatting about their likes (or anti-likes) of the pairing instead of trying to be rigorously logical about how it's expressed. Or maybe testing out their arguments similar to some of the stuff that's been on this thread before.

You're welcome to wander into there and grab posts to trash. Just not here.

[Last Raven]

I love this one:

"NaruSaku would ruin the Team 7 dynamics!"

Wouldn't SasuSaku have the same, if not greater, overall effect? Hell, NaruSaku looks like the least intrusive out of all the pairings. Besides, haven't the dynamics already gotten thrown outta whack when Sasuke turned traitor?

[gamerman_007]

I love this one:

"NaruSaku would ruin the Team 7 dynamics!"

Wouldn't SasuSaku have the same, if not greater, overall effect? Hell, NaruSaku looks like the least intrusive out of all the pairings. Besides, haven't the dynamics already gotten thrown outta whack when Sasuke turned traitor?

No, actually SasuSaku would be even worse. How do you think Naruto would feel if he saw, everyday, Sakura and Sasuke at it? He would so sad inside. D=

Now, What about Sasuke? How do you think he'll feel if He saw Naruto and Sakura on the floor? He'll just roll his eyes.

And if Sasuke came back, there's no way in hell that it'll be the same. Sasuke will be even more emo then last time.

[Silent Shinobi]

I love this one:

"NaruSaku would ruin the Team 7 dynamics!"

Wouldn't SasuSaku have the same, if not greater, overall effect? Hell, NaruSaku looks like the least intrusive out of all the pairings. Besides, haven't the dynamics already gotten thrown outta whack when Sasuke turned traitor?

No, actually SasuSaku would be even worse. How do you think Naruto would feel if he saw, everyday, Sakura and Sasuke at it? He would so sad inside. D=

Now, What about Sasuke? How do you think he'll feel if He saw Naruto and Sakura on the floor? He'll just roll his eyes.

And if Sasuke came back, there's no way in hell that it'll be the same. Sasuke will be even more emo then last time.

Amen to that. "He'll just roll his eyes" *imagining* LMAO

[Last Raven]

I love this one:

"NaruSaku would ruin the Team 7 dynamics!"

Wouldn't SasuSaku have the same, if not greater, overall effect? Hell, NaruSaku looks like the least intrusive out of all the pairings. Besides, haven't the dynamics already gotten thrown outta whack when Sasuke turned traitor?

No, actually SasuSaku would be even worse. How do you think Naruto would feel if he saw, everyday, Sakura and Sasuke at it? He would so sad inside. D=

Now, What about Sasuke? How do you think he'll feel if He saw Naruto and Sakura on the floor? He'll just roll his eyes.

And if Sasuke came back, there's no way in hell that it'll be the same. Sasuke will be even more emo then last time.

I was hoping for some more indepth answers, something I could use in my rant...Oh well!

[Nick Soapdish]

It definitely was in the beginning and through the start of the chuunin exam. And throughout it all, the dominant factor of his relationship with her has been his devotion. That isn't the same thing as romantic love, but it is a component of it. Since it has continued to get brought up, even if it was in comedic context or acknowledging that they were unrequited, I still see it as a big component of their relationship.

And I don't see how one can describe SasuSaku occurring as not being a major shift in the Team 7 dynamic unless one either completely disregards Sasuke's behavior towards Sakura or unless one already feels that Sasuke has shown romantic feelings towards Sakura. The dynamics of the team include how all of the members interact with each other, not just how Sakura and Naruto interact with Sasuke.

Oh, and no. I don't really see Sasuke as having shown romantic feelings towards Sakura so far.


I disagree again. The majority of Sakura's dealings with Sasuke (even including the curse seal hug) were just as companions or even friends. And subsequent to that, she was worrying over him and seemed to be taking the role of nurturer. This role doesn't preclude romantic feelings either. At some stage in a romantic relationship, one of them will have to take care of the other. But I took my failure to detect romantic undertones as the absence of them or more likely, the fading of them.

One might note an inherent contradiction in my willingness to assume that Naruto still has romantic feelings for Sakura despite an emphasis on those feelings and that Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are fading.

Granted.

I'm basing that viewpoint purely on my first impressions of how the scenes played out and my first impressions have been holding true, despite hearing arguments to the contrary. It just feels like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

And I'm going to ignore the bulk of the rest of the post because it seems that my already-expressed difference in interpretations kick the legs out of the rest of that argument from my POV because it illustrates that SasuSaku would involve a change in the dynamics as well.

Which leaves us arguing the value of that change instead, but I don't think that it's something that can be categorically defined.

[gamerman_007]

-Quote deleted-

I have a very limited view on team 7, so everything you typed was new to me.

So the gist of it is that NS would change the dynamics because Sasuke would be aliented? Or seeing them together, he would have no place? Of course he would! He'd be the uncle/godfather to their kids.

And so........what about Naruto? How would he feel if SS happened? Not saying he can't move on, but don't you think he wouldn't be really sad seein' them? They are teammates. Everyday seeing the girl you wanted with another dude? That would suck.

And compare to how would Sasuke feel if NS happened? What's the chance he would roll his eyes? Or ignore them(like he always has)? Pretty damn high.

-Ignore post-
-You never read this-
-Why the devil are you still reading this!?!?!-

[kawarimi]

It definitely was in the beginning and through the start of the chuunin exam. And throughout it all, the dominant factor of his relationship with her has been his devotion. That isn't the same thing as romantic love, but it is a component of it. Since it has continued to get brought up, even if it was in comedic context or acknowledging that they were unrequited, I still see it as a big component of their relationship.

And I don't see how one can describe SasuSaku occurring as not being a major shift in the Team 7 dynamic unless one either completely disregards Sasuke's behavior towards Sakura or unless one already feels that Sasuke has shown romantic feelings towards Sakura. The dynamics of the team include how all of the members interact with each other, not just how Sakura and Naruto interact with Sasuke.

Oh, and no. I don't really see Sasuke as having shown romantic feelings towards Sakura so far.

I disagree again. The majority of Sakura's dealings with Sasuke (even including the curse seal hug) were just as companions or even friends. And subsequent to that, she was worrying over him and seemed to be taking the role of nurturer. This role doesn't preclude romantic feelings either. At some stage in a romantic relationship, one of them will have to take care of the other. But I took my failure to detect romantic undertones as the absence of them or more likely, the fading of them.

One might note an inherent contradiction in my willingness to assume that Naruto still has romantic feelings for Sakura despite an emphasis on those feelings and that Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are fading.

Granted.

I'm basing that viewpoint purely on my first impressions of how the scenes played out and my first impressions have been holding true, despite hearing arguments to the contrary. It just feels like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

And I'm going to ignore the bulk of the rest of the post because it seems that my already-expressed difference in interpretations kick the legs out of the rest of that argument from my POV because it illustrates that SasuSaku would involve a change in the dynamics as well.

Which leaves us arguing the value of that change instead, but I don't think that it's something that can be categorically defined.

We certainly have different interpretations of the series as a whole (as I probably do with most NaruSaku-ers), and I agree with the feeling of trying to pound a square peg into a round hole - such is the nature of these things, I think, as well as probably the main source of friction and frustration. I just wanted to present my take on the argument in question posed by Last Raven to (hopefully) show that it's a difference of interpretation (on the overall context as well as individual scenes) and not some stupid SasuSaku argument that has no base except in blind bias and desperation. I appreciate your response, but I don't really want to press it further since I made the point I wanted to, and besides knowing us, it'd probably be fruitless anyway.

I have a very limited view on team 7, so everything you typed was new to me.

So the gist of it is that NS would change the dynamics because Sasuke would be aliented? Or seeing them together, he would have no place? Of course he would! He'd be the uncle/godfather to their kids.

And so........what about Naruto? How would he feel if SS happened? Not saying he can't move on, but don't you think he wouldn't be really sad seein' them? They are teammates. Everyday seeing the girl you wanted with another dude? That would suck.

And compare to how would Sasuke feel if NS happened? What's the chance he would roll his eyes? Or ignore them(like he always has)? Pretty damn high.

I was actually looking at it from a writing standpoint than the characters, but if you want to go that route, I give you Exhibit A:


Not enough to convince you? How about Exhibit B:


Sadly, it actually took me a long time to get those arrows and text to work in paint (computers really just don't like me), so I hope my attempt at humor is appreciated.

[Silent Shinobi]

I was actually looking at it from a writing standpoint than the characters, but if you want to go that route, I give you Exhibit A:


Not enough to convince you? How about Exhibit B:


Sadly, it actually took me a long time to get those arrows and text to work in paint (computers really just don't like me), so I hope my attempt at humor is appreciated.

Well, this isn't just humor, is it? I think I see a point you're trying to make as far as where the characters stand on this issue. I'm not gonna touch the top half of your post, as you've expressed the desire to let it drop, but af far as these 'Exhibits'...

Exhibit A:

Picture 1: You labeled Naruto's reaction a smile? Interesting... Knowing Naruto, and how he looks when he's genuinely happy, I'd hardly call that a smirk, much less a smile. And the fact that he's even smirking speaks more of pain then happiness. I'll get back to that.

Picture 2: "the look", huh? I take it you're tring to say that Sasuke's jealous? Certainly. But he's not upset with Sakura. No smile, yes. But he's not frowning either. In fact, in the context of that chapter, he explicitly states how jealous he is of Naruto's growth in strength, not Sakura's newfound appreciation for him. Even on that page, he remembers testing his own limits, and how much sheer power Naruto displayed. He states "How much more do I need to grow". In a later chapter, he thinks "How can I grow that kind of power". Obviously Sakura is the furthest thing from his mind. He's never thinking about her. Only of how Naruto had apparently surpassed him. Sure, you can say 'difference of interpretation', but what is there really to suggest anything otherwise? The canon overwhelmingly suggests Sasuke's jealousy being a direct result of Naruto's display of power, not that Sakura spared him a smile.

Exhibit B:

Pic 1: Again, you call that a 'real' Naruto smile? Look at the eyes. Doesn't he look pained to you? He's putting on a big face for Sakura. He's making the 'promise of a lifetime' and striking the patented 'nice guy pose'. That's the reason for the thumbs up. He's obviously trying to console her, as evidenced by her crying in the previous page. He even alludes to his own pain in seeing the girl he likes pining over another guy in the previous page! "I know how much pain you're in because of Sasuke... I can understand..." So to insinuate that Naruto's actually happy in this scene is rather far-fetched, IMO.

Pic 2: Again, yes, he's unhappy. Obviously. But what's the romantic connotation to that? Immediately after that scene, he slaps the apples out Sakura's hands. When Naruto shows up, he ignores her, and challenges Naruto in an attempt to reestablish his superiority in his own eyes. Naruto saved Sakura. He was unable to. Naruto had the power to do something that he couldn't. He's unhappy about the prospect of Naruto surpassing him. And that's not insinuated - it's spelled out.

As far as Naruto 'smiling': It's been established that Naruto smiles, acts stupid, and pulls pranks in order to hide his pain and feelings of lonliness. He often uses his smile as a mask to hide his pain under. The fact that his smile looks so off, especially in the first example, and even somewhat in the second, implies that what he sees is so painful to him that he can't even conceal his pain completely. I think that speaks more to the depth of his feelings for Sakura and the broken-heartedness he feels when seeing them together than any happiness that he supposedly derives from that situation. If he was really happy, he would really smile, and those smiles are beaming. Not smirks, or half-hearted. So I'd like to see your explanation on how these panels are supposed to prove your point, because I'm not following you.

Thanks in Advance,

~ Tatsu

[gamerman_007]

Well other people might use the term ruin, I think a more appropriate term is change.

If you look at how the three pairs have related to each other since the beginning and how they've progressed:
NaruSasu: rivalry->brotherhood
NaruSaku: overcoming prejudice->strong friendship
SasuSaku: potential romance->character growth with romantic context

I'll skip the first one unless someone wants me to go into since it's not really relevant for this specific topic.

Naruto's crush, while present from the beginning, has never been the overarcing factor in his relationship with Sakura, and more often than not, is used for comedic purposes. The few serious scenes we have had that were clearly in romantic context, they were of Naruto realizing/acknowledging Sakrua's feelings for Sasuke, etc.

It definitely was in the beginning and through the start of the chuunin exam. And throughout it all, the dominant factor of his relationship with her has been his devotion. That isn't the same thing as romantic love, but it is a component of it. Since it has continued to get brought up, even if it was in comedic context or acknowledging that they were unrequited, I still see it as a big component of their relationship.

And I don't see how one can describe SasuSaku occurring as not being a major shift in the Team 7 dynamic unless one either completely disregards Sasuke's behavior towards Sakura or unless one already feels that Sasuke has shown romantic feelings towards Sakura. The dynamics of the team include how all of the members interact with each other, not just how Sakura and Naruto interact with Sasuke.

Oh, and no. I don't really see Sasuke as having shown romantic feelings towards Sakura so far.

On the other hand, there has been a much more present romantic undertone in Sakura's relating to Sasuke, and even within the limited response from Sasuke. What we haven't seen is how they relate as just friends although we've seen plenty of that for NaruSaku. So if Kishi were to go the route of NaruSaku, he'd have to redefine how Sasuke and Sakura relate to one another (still has time, this is doable) as well as hopefully exhibit NaruSaku in a romantic light in more serious scenes, which would also slightly adjust their relationship as it is now as well, although this is less of a change and gap than what would be left behind with SasuSaku with a NaruSaku romance.

I disagree again. The majority of Sakura's dealings with Sasuke (even including the curse seal hug) were just as companions or even friends. And subsequent to that, she was worrying over him and seemed to be taking the role of nurturer. This role doesn't preclude romantic feelings either. At some stage in a romantic relationship, one of them will have to take care of the other. But I took my failure to detect romantic undertones as the absence of them or more likely, the fading of them.

One might note an inherent contradiction in my willingness to assume that Naruto still has romantic feelings for Sakura despite an emphasis on those feelings and that Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are fading.

Granted.

I'm basing that viewpoint purely on my first impressions of how the scenes played out and my first impressions have been holding true, despite hearing arguments to the contrary. It just feels like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

And I'm going to ignore the bulk of the rest of the post because it seems that my already-expressed difference in interpretations kick the legs out of the rest of that argument from my POV because it illustrates that SasuSaku would involve a change in the dynamics as well.

Which leaves us arguing the value of that change instead, but I don't think that it's something that can be categorically defined.

We certainly have different interpretations of the series as a whole (as I probably do with most NaruSaku-ers), and I agree with the feeling of trying to pound a square peg into a round hole - such is the nature of these things, I think, as well as probably the main source of friction and frustration. I just wanted to present my take on the argument in question posed by Last Raven to (hopefully) show that it's a difference of interpretation (on the overall context as well as individual scenes) and not some stupid SasuSaku argument that has no base except in blind bias and desperation. I appreciate your response, but I don't really want to press it further since I made the point I wanted to, and besides knowing us, it'd probably be fruitless anyway.

I have a very limited view on team 7, so everything you typed was new to me.

So the gist of it is that NS would change the dynamics because Sasuke would be aliented? Or seeing them together, he would have no place? Of course he would! He'd be the uncle/godfather to their kids.

And so........what about Naruto? How would he feel if SS happened? Not saying he can't move on, but don't you think he wouldn't be really sad seein' them? They are teammates. Everyday seeing the girl you wanted with another dude? That would suck.

And compare to how would Sasuke feel if NS happened? What's the chance he would roll his eyes? Or ignore them(like he always has)? Pretty damn high.

I was actually looking at it from a writing standpoint than the characters, but if you want to go that route, I give you Exhibit A:


Not enough to convince you? How about Exhibit B:


Sadly, it actually took me a long time to get those arrows and text to work in paint (computers really just don't like me), so I hope my attempt at humor is appreciated.

I still don't see your point. Is it because I'm stupid? :shamefulcry0js:

Nice pointy arrows, btw.

[Mizura]

Heh, about Sasuke being "unhappy" where NaruSaku is concerned...

To me it's pretty obvious that the source of the unhappiness is not Sakura's shifting feelings, but Naruto's growing powers, evidenced by:
1. the fact that he Immediately went ahead and thought of how strong Naruto was.
2. the fact that he thoughtlessly slapped away Sakura's apples the next moment.

In short, Sakura and her feelings were Never the center of his attention. Thinking about her was a mere stepping stone to go on and think about Naruto instead, and by the time he reaches That point, he's completely forgotten about Sakura.

In the manga, not once has he focused on Sakura for more than a few moments. His thoughts always turn to Naruto or power instead. Even after Sakura hugged him to bring him out of the curse seal mode: Sakura herself noticed that his attention then was no longer on her, but on glaring at the Sound nins.

[adrianna]

haha, 52 of the anti-narusaku people called us crazy!
anyways, I came to make a very small argument,

In their fc, they say that passionate love is real love. But, I say, isn't companionate love what can come before passionate, and also that real friends can be invovled in a much longer, and meaningful relationship, (helping/depending on each other) than lovers, (which, with the dynamics of some of relationships, may only last for a short period of time.)

What I'm trying to say here, is that if Naruto and Sakura form a strong friendship, which they have, then when they get together, their relationship will not only be as- uh-counterparts? (I'll just use that word for now,) but as good friends, strengthening their relationship to last a very, very, very loooong time.

((parentheses crazy ))

those people also called us immature . . .just . . . no.