1213 replies to this topic

[AzureWaters]

Sawyer is a nice guy but he's obviously pro NaruHina. Watching his vids will only cause you more grief during chapters like this.

[swagosaurus]

I highly recommend you do not watch his videos.

Have you seen any of VJ's stuff? I've sort of stayed away from anything non-NaruSaku ever since 615 came out, so I'm slightly interested to see what he's been saying.

EDIT: Guys, I think we're forgetting something important.

615 was the most important NH moment in the manga; it was borderline canon. We had Hinata in Sakura's role, per se, as a heroine, and Naruto showing non-platonic feelings towards Hinata.

616; Kishi had the opportunity to draw Naruto and Hinata, together. He had the cover, the color spread, and the first colored page to show off Naruto and Hinata. What does he do?

He has a wacky-ass cover, Sasuke on the first page, and the most important thing; we got a color spread of Naruto and Sakura fighting together. Not to mention completely blowing off the NH moment once again.

If that's not any type of foreshadowing, I don't know what is. He literally could have done anything else, but he chose to have Naruto and Sakura together (Sasuke in a villain-esque role in the scroll behind them, too). I doubt, highly doubt, he just forgot about her. He has something big planned for her.

Edited by swagosaurus, 24 January 2013 - 02:50 AM.

[Slextrem]

What if
The reason Sakura "disappeared" these last two chapters isn't because Kishi is saving her for something big. What if he just forgot about her, and soon she'll show up like she never disappeared and will have the same role as any other ninja in the war.

/pessimism

Then I will officially give up on Sakura as a character and may even quit reading. If Kishimoto is going to drop the quality of her character for the sake of giving other, less significant, characters more development without redeeming her, then I'm done. I wouldn't even want NaruSaku at that point. If he can't even develop Sakura properly, there's no way he will be able to develop NaruSaku in a satisfying way.

That's why I'm praying that he doesn't screw up my last expectation for her.

[Hiraishin]

I feel like he hasn't planned for her to have an important role yet. As she isn't the focus Kishi may have forgotten to add her this chapter. Likely she will show up in the group soon, but by the way things have been going she's not gonna get a big moment right now.

Although one thing I won't make an excuse for is Naruto not sharing chakra with her, at least not being depicted as doing so. Most of the rookies were seen gaining Naruto's energy, yet last chapter no Sakura. There's not even a possibility of that happening again cause Naruto's finished sharing. -___-

Yeah, I agree. I don't expect her to be of any particular importance anytime soon.

Oh, for sure. And you bring up a good point: most — actually, I think all — of the Rookies were shown receiving chakra. I don't think we saw Sai receive any, but he's not a Rookie. Anyway, if Sakura is shown to have the Kyuubi cloak, I'll be mad because we saw pretty much everyone else receive chakra from Naruto, so why not the heroine? Kishi has no excuse. And like you said, Naruto's done sharing so we don't even have a chance of seeing this. Unless we get it through a flashback, but I think that's unlikely.

Then I will officially give up on Sakura as a character and may even quit reading. If Kishimoto is going to drop the quality of her character for the sake of giving other, less significant, characters more development without redeeming her, then I'm done. I wouldn't even want NaruSaku at that point. If he can't even develop Sakura properly, there's no way he will be able to develop NaruSaku in a satisfying way.

That's why I'm praying that he doesn't screw up my last expectation for her.

My thoughts exactly!

Edited by mydearbeloved, 24 January 2013 - 02:55 AM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

What if
The reason Sakura "disappeared" these last two chapters isn't because Kishi is saving her for something big. What if he just forgot about her, and soon she'll show up like she never disappeared and will have the same role as any other ninja in the war.

/pessimism

Sadly, this is what's most likely going to happen. I've been let down one too many times by Kishi to have any faith that he's saving Sakura for some superspecialawesomesneakattack. Chances are, she's there and just isn't being shown.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Those are things that always bothered me. Sakura's talent as a genjutsu type is mentioned a few times in Part 1, and then Kakashi says it again in Part 2. Possible foreshadowing of Sakura development, yet we never hear from it again afterwards. Because of that, I'm at the point where I don't think we'll actually see that ability of hers progressing on-panel. Maybe a timeskip, skipping the training, but that's just lazy of Kishi.

Kishimoto is so heavily-biased towards Sasuke and Naruto. He's done amazing work on making sure they power up to the best of their abilities (Despite how continually annoyed I am at Sasuke's spamming eyes and getting the EMS, which he doesn't even deserve. ). Naruto's passed Jiraiya, Sasuke's succeded Orochimaru (I think). However, Sakura, while hinted to surpass her master, we don't actually see her train and learn new jutsu. It's discouraging, especially when Sakura was at the height of her potential when she fought Sasori. How could Kishimoto neglect his heroine so badly? The Naruto fandom doesn't care about "emotional support", they care about fighting and power-ups. Hell, my older brother (who only reads the manga/watches the anime for the fighting. God, he's shallow. ) said to me (and I quote) "I don't like any of the female characters because they're all completely weak and useless. I only like Tsunade, because she's a Sanin. Sakura's useless too. She never fights, the only time she was even cool was that Sasori fight. After that, nothing." I'm a diehard Sakura fan and he borderline hates her. That's usually why I end up arguing with him over his opinion of her, it gets me angry.Funny because he thinks NS is canon and actually comes off as supporting it sometimes. He hates Hinata more though and consequently NH, mostly because he blames her for the death of Neji (who my brother loved for his coolness).

Back to Sakura. I actually find it in character for Sakura to break the code of medic-nins. Tsunade's headstrong, she did it. Sakura's like her master and just as stubborn, I easily picture her fighting anyway. At least if it somehow involves fighting with Naruto. And it also angers me how Sakura doesn't yet have the self-healing abilities Tsunade has this late in the series. It's been 600 chapters and up, she should already have it. If Kishi just does the easy way out and does another timeskip, showing Sakura with power-ups ... I won't be satisifed. It'd be like Kishi trying to pathetically make us Sakura fans feeling somewhat better by seeing "See! Sakura surpassed Tsunade! I didn't forget.", to cover up the fact that he didn't care enough to make it an issue on-panel. That's what I'll be thinking if, God forbid, Kishi does this to his heroine and us.

I'm no longer furious, and I'm thinking more rationally now. NaruSaku is still probably the canon pairing and Sakura is still the heroine by title. I believe her time is coming, but we should just be patient the coming chapters ... I'm extremely disappointed to Kishi's bad writing, but I'm not gonna jump to conclusions yet. However, I will never be able to look at that scene when Hinata pops Naruto's shoulder into place without slight annoyance that Kishimoto once again missed an opportunity to have Sakura do more. It's always like this: Missed opportunities after another, made worse by Hinata trying to fill it in now.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 24 January 2013 - 03:03 AM.

[luffyq1]

Have you seen any of VJ's stuff? I've sort of stayed away from anything non-NaruSaku ever since 615 came out, so I'm slightly interested to see what he's been saying.

Yeah. But I used to watch his video for entertainment purposes.

[MangaReader]

Really all in all, the only thing that's disappointing is the fact Sakura didn't appear at all. Everything else about this chapter was fine with me

[tonga1]

What if
The reason Sakura "disappeared" these last two chapters isn't because Kishi is saving her for something big. What if he just forgot about her, and soon she'll show up like she never disappeared and will have the same role as any other ninja in the war.

/pessimism

Kishi forgetting sakura??......
would be tragicomic if that happen

[fireandice]

Have you seen any of VJ's stuff? I've sort of stayed away from anything non-NaruSaku ever since 615 came out, so I'm slightly interested to see what he's been saying.

EDIT: Guys, I think we're forgetting something important.

615 was the most important NH moment in the manga; it was borderline canon. We had Hinata in Sakura's role, per se, as a heroine, and Naruto showing non-platonic feelings towards Hinata.

616; Kishi had the opportunity to draw Naruto and Hinata, together. He had the cover, the color spread, and the first colored page to show off Naruto and Hinata. What does he do?

He has a wacky-ass cover, Sasuke on the first page, and the most important thing; we got a color spread of Naruto and Sakura fighting together. Not to mention completely blowing off the NH moment once again.

If that's not any type of foreshadowing, I don't know what is. He literally could have done anything else, but he chose to have Naruto and Sakura together (Sasuke in a villain-esque role in the scroll behind them, too). I doubt, highly doubt, he just forgot about her. He has something big planned for her.

YUP. Which is why I'm not so worried about Sakura's lack of appearance in 617.

Like, honestly, I burst out laughing after I saw the colour page- before that I was pretty much bracing myself for Hinata in colour. This was one of the few times I was genuinely pleased to see Sasuke in Part 2. I was like, LOL KISHI you really went out of your way not to draw Hinata in colour, did you?

I mean Kishi could have drawn all the Konoha 11 or something. He could have drawn Hinata. But he doesn't! He shows Naruto and Sakura teaming up.

In general, Kishi doesn't do asspulls outside of the Sharingan gaining weird power ups and being mastered easily . I mean for instance- everybody was like WHAT when Sasuke defeated Bee so easily. Then we find out that he didn't, that Bee actually escaped. Did we get shown anything clear that Bee had escaped initially? Other than one panel of the chopped off tentacle that no one thought was important? Nope! So it made it all the more surprising to learn that he did, and it wasn't implausible- the foreshadowing was just cleverly hidden but made sense in retrospect.

To an extent, Kishi has a history of trolling NH- so I kind of trust him there. Like in the Pain arc, he had Sakura hug Naruto.

Kishi had her said she would fight together. He remembered to draw her on the cover, he wouldn't forget to completely draw her even in ONE panel. She's deliberately missing. I have no doubt she will do something

Edited by fireandice, 24 January 2013 - 03:36 AM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Dang, 34 pages of people talking about the lack of Sakura..... Let's seriously change the topic, should we?


Anyone notice that the Chakra aura of the Shinobi charging the Juubi was the shape of a bird?

Perfect homage to the 'bird in a cage' motif associated with Neji.

Rock Lee's really matured up in this chapter, no babbling about Neji's FLAMES OF YOUTH! Guess he does know when to get serious.
Also, brief shot of Tenten knocking fists (I think) with Naruto to receive the Kyuubi chakra.

It's kinda interesting, the implications of Naruto's ability to share the Kyuubi chakra.... Will there be some influence after all that chakra's burnt out? Imagine an entire shinobi army who kept a smidge of Jinchuuriki chakra....

Although, for this purpose, it's possibly just a temp. buff/power-up.

Heh, Naruto's surpassed Kushina and Minato. In some ways, that's possible, but Minato probably still outclasses Naruto's base skills.
Not sure about Kushina, though.

Minato vs. Sage Mode Naruto...wonder who'll come out on top.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 24 January 2013 - 03:34 AM.

[Phantom_999]

Yeah maybe, although the ten tails fight is getting interesting. It is however getting prolonged IMO so I wouldn't mind overall

[TouKen4Life3g]

So, who do you want Naruto to fight first if he has to choose one?

[Nate River]

Okay...so Kurama engerizes everybody else, but his chakra doesn't fix his own vessel's dislocated shoulder? *rolls eyes*

Yeah.

This is one development I can't say I'm thrilled with. Aside from that blatant contradiction, the ability to instantly and constantly reenergize people feels so cheap. Kishimoto has never attempted to really define the outerlimits of what a tailed beast can do, so I cannot call it an ass-pull. It has all of the elements of the hacked sharingan. While there is a bit more precedent with the healing in the earlier chapters, he's now tossing charka around like its going out of style. I'm wondering where my cut is at the moment. I'm currently watching the reruns on CN .I look at the Zabuza fight then I look at this and I gotta ask what happened to that guy who wrote former?

Chapters like this always are kinda meh for me. I don't love them or hate them. It just move things along. I did like Lee's reaction to Neji's death, but at the same time it also highlighted how much TenTen gets shafted. There may not be a better example of "token female" than TenTen. Really, just a panel?

As to Sakura:

I'm seeing grumblings about Hinata replacing her again. I'd just say that Hinata still doesn't matter outside of the romantic subplot. She has no issues that are relevant to the primary plot. So, she is no heroine. If anything, Sakura is being removed from that role and it's being left vacant. I sympathize with those who are upset by that, but I'd gain little solace from having her put Naruto's shoulder into place because the scene and act itself is given very little significance. It'd be doing something I suppose, but it's not the same as genuine plot involvement or helping (or mattering) to move the story along. It's not nothing, but only barely. That she's had so little to do with that is pretty bad. I think the confession was the last time she mattered in that regard. And that was what? Nearly 150 chapters ago.

I also wouldn't call what Hinata did medical ninjustu, but I don't know, maybe I just don't want her crammed in that box too. It would leave TenTen as the only female rookie who was not a med ninja in some regard and even that I might just chalk up to sheer neglect. I still believe that the primary reason behind that not being show is because of his own lack of knowledge and he did show it off in the beginning, but left nothing unique he could show off later. Kishimoto doesn't have any expertise in the area, so what can he have her do that hasn't been demonstrated and could portray as "action packed?"I don't think the lack of traditional action seen by battle would bother that many people, but I can see how he'd be reluctant to show that over and over for fear his audience would grow bored with it or that his own lack of knowledge on the matter would be quickly and easily exposed. He no doubt did her a severe disservice by shoving most of her combat growth in this area and then completely failing to develop it any further.

Speaking for that: for any aspiring writers (fanfiction or otherwise) I think his exhalation of medical ninjutsu is a fantastic example of telling over showing. He's spent more words telling us how great and important it is, but not really showing it. Even his own nonsensical rule about them not being frontline fighters never amounts to squat and its important is only shown by word of mouth. Why it matters has never actually been demonstrated.

I dislike his extended shelving of her character, but I care far less about seeing super special battle sequences than her moving the story and being heavily involved in the plot. I'd take the latter over a quick shoulder fix any day.

Yeah maybe, although the ten tails fight is getting interesting. It is however getting prolonged IMO so I wouldn't mind overall

I'm the opposite. The fight's kind of a bore. I'm still kinda of let down by Obito/Naruto so far. Moreso on the Naruto end.

[AnimeGirl_123]

Have you seen any of VJ's stuff? I've sort of stayed away from anything non-NaruSaku ever since 615 came out, so I'm slightly interested to see what he's been saying.

EDIT: Guys, I think we're forgetting something important.

615 was the most important NH moment in the manga; it was borderline canon. We had Hinata in Sakura's role, per se, as a heroine, and Naruto showing non-platonic feelings towards Hinata.

616; Kishi had the opportunity to draw Naruto and Hinata, together. He had the cover, the color spread, and the first colored page to show off Naruto and Hinata. What does he do?

He has a wacky-ass cover, Sasuke on the first page, and the most important thing; we got a color spread of Naruto and Sakura fighting together. Not to mention completely blowing off the NH moment once again.

If that's not any type of foreshadowing, I don't know what is. He literally could have done anything else, but he chose to have Naruto and Sakura together (Sasuke in a villain-esque role in the scroll behind them, too). I doubt, highly doubt, he just forgot about her. He has something big planned for her.

Right and then 617 came along and had Hinata doing what Sakura should have done all over again. With the color spread, he did have Naruto and Sakura as the "real" characters but he also had Sakura close to Sasuke. You see? Kishi is teasing everyone at this point.

Also it's quite obvious Sawyer knows he is disliked here on heaven and earth. I remember his video on chapter 540 (or it may have been the episode it was animated... shippuden 278 was it?) And he fully admits that NaruSaku fans don't like him. I enjoy his videos other than the pairing stuff. XD

Edited by AnimeGirl_123, 24 January 2013 - 04:15 AM.

[Phantom_999]

I'm the opposite. The fight's kind of a bore. I'm still kinda of let down by Obito/Naruto so far. Moreso on the Naruto end.

Then switching to Sasuke would be a tolerable change of pace then, No Kage Nate?

Edited by Phantom_999, 24 January 2013 - 04:17 AM.

[Nate River]

Then switching to Sasuke would be a tolerable change of pace then, No Kage Nate?

Yeah. If only he forgot to draw Suigetsu and Juugo.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Yeah. If only he forgot to draw Suigetsu and Juugo.

Funny. They're the most appealing aspect of that scenario to me, considering Orochimaru's return is total...ugh, and Sasuke is, well, Sasuke.

[Phantom_999]

Funny. They're the most appealing aspect of that scenario to me, considering Orochimaru's return is total...ugh, and Sasuke is, well, Sasuke.

Ruined Kabuto's Character?

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I'm gonna stop lurking for all of ten minutes to throw my two cents into this whole debacle. I watched (Because i'ma lurker...) everyone freak out about the whole hand holding thing and everybody is starting to slip back into that mindset, which is just for lack of a better word: Silly.

Just because Hinata put his arm back right doesn't mean anything. Sakura can't do it if she isn't there and it seems pretty obvious that she isn't.

One second that girl is chilling with Kakashi and the next she's acting like Schrodinger's cat. Her absence is so obvious it's not even funny. I doubt she's heading towards Konohagakure so the likelihood that she's going to run into Sasuke is low imo.

She's either with the Kage, heading there, or she's about ready to do some major smashy smashy and Kishi is upping the suspense and it's WORKING. Look at everybody freaking out again.

I mean personally speaking I think Kishimoto might have put Sakura on the color spread like he did to remind us that even if she's not there at the moment she's STILL the heroine. Its a reminder to us-- the readers not to get discouraged by her lack of presence at the moment and maybe even a bit of a snub at all the rabid Hinata fans out there reminding them that just because she's got a bit of the lime light atm, it doesn't mean much in the long run.

But that's me putting major faith in Kishi, which admittedly he doesn't always deserve. He may not be the best writer when it comes to women and he knows it, he's admitted it which is probably why he tries not to give Sakura much screen/panel time because he doesn't know what to do with her. ( Which I think is ridiculous and insulting as a woman myself..I mean come on we're not some alien species or anything, but whatever.) I mean, come on "Oh I'm gonna save Sasuke even if we both have to die to do it, kay Sakura?"..."Oh okie dokey Naruto! Fine by me" Really...? What women in their right mind just accepts a statement like that?

Its easy for people to look at Hinata like she walks on water because she's barely there, where as Sakura has a much bigger presence and DOES more than Hinata, therefore there is more to judge her negatively for.

As for Sakura development, yes its frustrating that we see her crowning moment of glory in the Sasori fight and then she just sort of gets left there...but then I remember all the small things she's done, figuring out what Obito was doing with his body,growing some balls and going after Sasuke ( which we can all argue as being dumb, but the fact that she was even WILLING to do it needs props.) figuring the Zetsu clone junk out, and yadayadayada. It might seem like something small to others, but those things are pretty important too so lets not complain that she hasn't been doing anything.

Of course I want to see her kicking butt and showing all the haters up ( Although lets face it...if people still hate Sakura at this point in the game they always will and nothing she ever does will change that, so I don't sweat over it anymore. Not worth the time.) but I'm not in a rush to see it. To me her position as heroine has been cemented since the chuunin arc, and it's not going to be taken away from her by Hyuuga Hinata.

But if I'm wrong, I'll laugh myself silly and publicly shame myself for believing otherwise

Lets face it, time is a very precious thing and when you work as hard as Kishi does and as much as he does...I doubt he'd want to waste it. Drawing is not easy, writing is not easy yet he does both. ( Handcramps guys. Handcramps.) The guy is not stupid...he may be a troll, but he's not dumb. Sure, some of his plot lines don't really make sense and whatnot, and some of it might seem like he put a bunch of options in a bag and pulled one out, but for the most part he comes up with some pretty good stuff. If he didn't would we all be here right now? No. I don't think we would.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was trolling the Nhers hard like he did after the pain arc. I mean war time or not if a girl confesses to you while sacrificing herself and you "feel the same" you're going to say something....Hell if you even gave the slightest damn about it you would atleast acknowledge it! The fact that Naruto STILL has not said "Hey...'bout what you said before..." he glosses over it completely and seems to avoid directly speaking of it for whatever reason!

The only reason Naruto hasn't confessed his own feelings to the girl we KNOW he likes is because he's being too hard on himself "How can I confess when I can't even keep my promise?" He can't move forward with Sakura until that chapter of his life is closed, so when Sasuke's issues are settled Naruto will finally tell Sakura how he feels.

So yea....just be patient.

It might feel like it's so late in the game for Sakura to suddenly be totally fantastic again, but I really don't feel that way...I mean we don't know what she's been studying, or working on...and we don't know whats going to happen with Tsunade. She may or may not die but if she is going to die I bet that's where Sakura is heading right now. Not necessarily for a love life lesson, but for her to finally learn the last of the skills Tsunade has to offer.

With that said...I'll go back to stalk-lurking.