814 replies to this topic

[swagosaurus]

But what negative things have her feelings for Naruto lead to? She did almost die for them, but in a willing sacrifice.

Willing or not, it's still almost dying for an unrequited love. Not to mention, during the Pein arc, her actions caused the Kyuubi to be unleashed. Sure, he met his father, but it could have been much worse.

I think Naruto has the most genuine feelings out of all of them. He's wary of Sakura's feelings, and was willing to give her happiness at the cost of his own. You don't see Hinata doing that. It's all about the idea of Naruto with her.
I sometimes question whether she truly loves him, or is just infatuated with him.

Edited by swagosaurus, 22 December 2012 - 12:30 AM.

[PhenixElite]

For me, the difference is in the scale. Rescuing Sasuke is a massive storyline. We all know how much pagetime it has in the series. Romance and NS bond is much more subtle and a smaller affair. Rescuing Sasuke is like Naruto's number one goal in life for most of the series. Even before Sasuke leaves, NaruSasu bond is a huge part of the series. NaruSasu bond is like the emotional core of the series. Naruto giving up on the number one thing in his life (and in his comic) would be like the Bible ending to Jesus's crucifixion and skipping the resurrection (It's Christmas time, people, I had to mention him).

Dont agree there. Narutos love for sakura was also always shown 100 times in the manga. I mean even in part one it was extreme. You nearly never had a chapter where naruto didnt ask sakura for a date or blushed at her. So i think this is always a very big deal and goal.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Willing or not, it's still almost dying for an unrequited love. Not to mention, during the Pein arc, her actions caused the Kyuubi to be unleashed. Sure, he met his father, but it could have been much worse.

I think Naruto has the most genuine feelings out of all of them. He's wary of Sakura's feelings, and was willing to give her happiness at the cost of his own. You don't see Hinata doing that. It's all about the idea of Naruto with her.

Naruto gets to take all the responsibility about the Kyuubi beeing unleashed. He should be able to control himself, being big boy and all. And you most definitely see Hinata willing to give Naruto happiness in her own expence. How many times has she been willing to die in his place again? She does it again, in this very chapter, in fact.

Dont agree there. Narutos love for sakura was also always shown 100 times in the manga. I mean even in part one it was extreme. You nearly never had a chapter where naruto didnt ask sakura for a date or blushed at her. So i think this is always a very big deal and goal.

It seriously hasn't been shown as much as his bond with Sasuke. When is the last time Naruto's feelings for Sakura have been mentioned, anyway? Was it all the way back in the summit arc? To be fair, even Sasuke mentions have been kind of rare for a while. Well, Naruto and Kyuubi did reminiscence about kissing Sasuke a while back.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 22 December 2012 - 12:34 AM.

[StriderC]

This is sort of it for me. I just can't see how Kishi plans to do that, which makes me consider that he might not plan to do it at all. Of course, my lack of imagination does not mean that Kishi lacks it, too.


Does it ever bother you that so many people (well, Itachi, Naruto and Kakashi, anyway) in the series express this unconditional love for Sasuke? I mean does it bother you as a NS shipper, do you see it as a massive block for your pairing? Because I kind of do. If Itachi loves Sasuke no matter what, if Naruto can forgive everything Sasuke has done, why not Sakura, too? If Itachi's and Naruto's brotherly bonds with Sasuke can last forever, why not also Sakura's romantic bond? "Unconditional love for Sasuke" could be the subtitle to Naruto.


For me, the difference is in the scale. Rescuing Sasuke is a massive storyline. We all know how much pagetime it has in the series. Romance and NS bond is much more subtle and a smaller affair. Rescuing Sasuke is like Naruto's number one goal in life for most of the series. Even before Sasuke leaves, NaruSasu bond is a huge part of the series. NaruSasu bond is like the emotional core of the series. Naruto giving up on the number one thing in his life (and in his comic) would be like the Bible ending to Jesus's crucifixion and skipping the resurrection (It's Christmas time, people, I had to mention him).


But what negative things have her feelings for Naruto lead to? She did almost die for them, but in a willing sacrifice.

Me personally, I don't consider it a sort of block at all given I have faith that when/if Sasuke does in fact get redeemed, she'll choose Naruto over Sasuke, and it'll be genuine. She won't be choosing Naruto because she's basically settling for second best. She'll choose him because she genuinely, wholeheartedly is in love with the guy. I wonder if when Sasuke does get saved, he'll finally confess his feelings to her.

[swagosaurus]

Naruto gets to take all the responsibility about the Kyuubi beeing unleashed. He should be able to control himself, being big boy and all. And you most definitely see Hinata willing to give Naruto happiness in her own expence. How many times has she been willing to die in his place again? She does it again, in this very chapter, in fact.

She 'died' right in front of him; that set the Kyuubi off. She shouldn't have been there in the first place.

She never takes Naruto's own feelings into account. This just proves it. Willing to die for him won't bring him happiness. She's one of his friends; pretty sure he wouldn't be happy if she died for him.

Edited by swagosaurus, 22 December 2012 - 12:34 AM.

[sushi.]

Here's a question: are Hinata's feelings for Naruto a strength or a weakness? Also this ^

If you would ask Hinata were her strength is from, she will certainly say Naruto, and only Naruto.

When your strength is solely from one person, it becomes a weakness.
Because she does not create her own strength inspired by Naruto, she just takes it. When she's lost it, she needs a new boost. It's like a loading battery, if you lose the charger, you lose the strength.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

She 'died' right in front of him; that set the Kyuubi off. She shouldn't have been there in the first place.

She never takes Naruto's own feelings into account. This just proves it. Willing to die for him won't bring him happiness. She's one of his friends; pretty sure he wouldn't be happy if she died for him.

Naruto might be dead if she hadn't. Kind of hard to feel anything when you are dead. Naruto has shown appreaciation for Hinata's actions in the Pain arc. Clearly he wasn't bothered by her sacrifice.

She'll choose him because she genuinely, wholeheartedly is in love with the guy.

I just wonder why she hasn't realized this yet, if NS is to be.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 22 December 2012 - 12:39 AM.

[swagosaurus]

Naruto might be dead if she hadn't. Kind of hard to feel anything when you are dead. Naruto has shown appreaciation for Hinata's actions in the Pain arc. Clearly he wasn't bothered by her sacrifice.

He cried when he thought that he killed her, and that he had destroyed the village.

Edited by swagosaurus, 22 December 2012 - 12:39 AM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

He cried when he thought that he killed her, and that he had destroyed the village.

So? That's not Hinata's fault that Naruto has bad self-control. With Naruto appreciating it, i meant chapter 559, though. http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/559/5

^Naruto did not have bad self-control, the seal was weakening. He went from 1, 2, 4 to 6 tails.

Even less Hinata's fault, then.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 22 December 2012 - 12:46 AM.

[sushi.]

He cried when he thought that he killed her, and that he had destroyed the village.

We should all thank Namikaze Minato for saving Naruto from raping the village, even in death. If he hadn't showed up...

^Naruto did not have bad self-control, the seal was weakening. He went from 1, 2, 4 to 6 tails.

Edited by sushi., 22 December 2012 - 12:44 AM.

[StriderC]

Naruto might be dead if she hadn't. Kind of hard to feel anything when you are dead. Naruto has shown appreaciation for Hinata's actions in the Pain arc. Clearly he wasn't bothered by her sacrifice.


I just wonder why she hasn't realized this yet, if NS is to be.

We don't really even know if she has given she hasn't had much panel time this arc. ^^ Hopefully we'll see a bit of it sometime soon.

[Chucky-kun]

Does it ever bother you that so many people (well, Itachi, Naruto and Kakashi, anyway) in the series express this unconditional love for Sasuke? I mean does it bother you as a NS shipper, do you see it as a massive block for your pairing? Because I kind of do. If Itachi loves Sasuke no matter what, if Naruto can forgive everything Sasuke has done, why not Sakura, too? If Itachi's and Naruto's brotherly bonds with Sasuke can last forever, why not also Sakura's romantic bond? "Unconditional love for Sasuke" could be the subtitle to Naruto.

.......
Ok lets see.
None of these are truly unconditional. They all harbour bonds much more meaningful and logical than Sakura's "bond" with Sasuke
Itachi is his brother. Thats a condition. Itachi set Sasuke on his path of hatred and therefore, because he loves him wants him to protect Konoha.
Kakashi is his Sensei. The parallel of the team member has been brought about repetitively and Kakashi wants to put a stop to it. Orochimaru, Obito. As a sensei, it is his responsibility to look out for his team.
Naruto and Sasuke are Senju and Uchiha. Their bond runs deep along the lines of history. The reason why Naruto keeps chasing after Sasuke, is because he doesn't want to break one of his first ever bonds.

Itachi only said I love you. He never said I forgive you.
Kakashi's quote"No matter how far he fell, the third always looked upon Orochimaru with affection" Kakashi never outright said he forgave Sasuke.
Naruto said that he would bear the hatred along with Sasuke.
None of these guys actually forgave Sasuke, all of them understood him though.

[PhenixElite]

It seriously hasn't been shown as much as his bond with Sasuke. When is the last time Naruto's feelings for Sakura have been mentioned, anyway? Was it all the way back in the summit arc? To be fair, even Sasuke mentions have been kind of rare for a while. Well, Naruto and Kyuubi did reminiscence about kissing Sasuke a while back.

The romance inside a story is normally not comparable with something like saving a friend. Its a different different things.
So fact is that naruto has goals and all of this goals are mentioned very very often like saving sasuke, winning sakuras love, becoming hokage. In some kind all this goals stick together.
I mean for the story to make sence there can be onlx two ways. He achieves nothing of that or all. It would be bullsh** if he decides after 600 chapters that he dont wants to save sasuke or beecome hokage anymore.
Same here for his love interest.

Its also all about development, What would be the sence in throwing in hundred of Ns hints, even show a change of sakuras feelings, but in the end it was all for nothing because she didnt change at all, or naruto changed his feelings.
Thats just bad story telling. You cant just make all the development seem useless in the end by something like making SS or NH happen, or naruto stopping to try to become hokage.

To your question why sakura still isnt full aware of her feeelings for naruto:
What would be the use of Ns beeing canon right now? It would only make problems for the story during the war. Also its hard to show paring interacting in mangas. Something like that is always kept till the end.
So we wont get NS canon till one of the last chapters. Im sure of that.

Edited by PhenixElite, 22 December 2012 - 12:51 AM.

[swagosaurus]

Also; with the state of Hinata's development in the war, mentioning Naruto's feelings for Sakura now would completely destroy NH as a pairing that has a chance. At least now it's somewhat ambiguous to keep us guessing (even though we know Naruto loves Sakura).

Edited by swagosaurus, 22 December 2012 - 12:52 AM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Itachi only said I love you. He never said I forgive you.
Kakashi's quote"No matter how far he fell, the third always looked upon Orochimaru with affection" Kakashi never outright said he forgave Sasuke.
Naruto said that he would bear the hatred along with Sasuke.
None of these guys actually forgave Sasuke, all of them understood him though.

Unconditional love just means that you will love someone no matter what they do. Even if they do bad things, you will still love them. Like Naruto and Itachi love Sasuke. Hell, Itachi says even says the very words. Even Kakashi mentioned loving Sasuke, though Kakashi himself was ready to kill Sasuke there and then. Are you honestly saying that the three of them haven't forgiven Sasuke? Does either Naruto or Itachi act like they would spit in Sasuke's face and want to lock him up for doing bad things? I think that the forgiveness part is pretty much implied in the "we love and understand you" part.

The romance inside a story is normally not comparable with something like saving a friend. Its a different different things.
So fact is that naruto has goals and all of this goals are mentioned very very often like saving sasuke, winning sakuras love, becoming hokage. In some kind all this goals stick together.

Being Hokage and saving Sasuke are said a lot. Winning Sakura's love is mentioned less. Like I said, when has it been mentioned the last time? What chapter was that?

To your question why sakura still isnt full aware of her feeelings for naruto:
What would be the use of Ns beeing canon right now? It would only make problems for the story during the war. Also its hard to show paring interacting in mangas. Something like that is always kept till the end.
So we wont get NS canon till one of the last chapters. Im sure of that.

Clear and logical developtment would be the use. It's hard, I'm sure I speak for many non-shippers of NS, for us to imagine what would change Sakura's mind now if Sasuke's senseless rampage hasn't?

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 22 December 2012 - 12:59 AM.

[PhenixElite]

Unconditional love just means that you will love someone no matter what they do. Even if they do bad things, you will still love them. Like Naruto and Itachi love Sasuke. Hell, Itachi says even says the very words. Even Kakashi mentioned loving Sasuke, though Kakashi himself was ready to kill Sasuke there and then. Are you honestly saying that the three of them haven't forgiven Sasuke? Does either Naruto or Itachi act like they would spit in Sasuke's face and want to lock him up for doing bad things? I think that the forgiveness part is pretty much implied in the "we love and understand you" part.

BUt they dont love him in a romantic way right? So could you be together with someone whol tried to kill you 3 times seriously? Its a big different if you love soemone like your friend or brother, or if you love someone in a romantic way. Thats important

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

BUt they dont love him in a romantic way right? So could you be together with someone whol tried to kill you 3 times seriously? Its a big different if you love soemone like your friend or brother, or if you love someone in a romantic way. Thats important

Well, I could buy Naruto being in love with Sasuke... It's different, sure. But if Kishi's doing the "unconditional love is great" theme, maybe he will continue that theme with Sakura's love for Sasuke? You don't think so?

[swagosaurus]

With family, you have a more connected and unseperable bond than a romantic partner. Sasuke is both Naruto's and Itachi's brother, though the former is more in a spiritual sense.

There's no reason for Sakura to love Sasuke besides tension for the romantic subplot. SS pretty much died the end of part 1. Sasuke made his intentions clear; he has no interest in Sakura, and it's too late in the manga for his feelings to completely change. It goes against everything we know about him.

Sakura's already been shown to have some romantic feelings for Naruto. Naruto only sees Hinata as a friend; no romantic moments between them at all.

Edited by swagosaurus, 22 December 2012 - 01:02 AM.

[PhenixElite]

Well, I could buy Naruto being in love with Sasuke... It's different, sure. But if Kishi's doing the "unconditional love is great" theme, maybe he will continue that theme with Sakura's love for Sasuke? You don't think so?

I guess not. Again, what would be the reason in showing such a bad love stroy? I dont see a reason. Take it simple: We take as an example: Naruto= God, Sasuke= Devil.
If the author can make his character choose between god and devil, why should someone take the devil? It just makes no sence to show such a story. All its going to show is the negative side of love. And thats a message no one wants to hear or read about.
We have a simple super hero manga there. Means the hero accieves his goals and happy ending. No need to make dramatic love disaster in the end.

Edit:
Also just imagine a realationship between Sakura- Sasuke and Hinata- Naruto if we look at their characteristics.
All i can say: NOT fitting.
Sakura is not herself around sasuke, thats also why weve seen inner sakura in part one as long sasuke was there. Sasuke is Mr. overcool and is just not a funny guy, hes just boring.
Naruto is a emotional and very hyperactive guy who like to do dumb things. Hinata is the quite shy girl. What can a girl like her do with a guy like naruto who likes to overrush things.

Sakura is the tsundere type, shes the one who can controll naruto with her agressive side, also likes his funny and childish side and can be herself around him.

Edited by PhenixElite, 22 December 2012 - 01:18 AM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

I guess not. Again, what would be the reason in showing such a bad love stroy? I dont see a reason. Take it simple: We take as an example: Naruto= God, Sasuke= Devil.
If the author can make his character choose between god and devil, why should someone take the devil? It just makes no sence to show such a story. All its going to show is the negative side of love. And thats a message no one wants to hear or read about.
We have a simple super hero manga there. Means the hero accieves his goals and happy ending. No need to make dramatic love disaster in the end.

Well, Itachi's unconditional love for Sasuke gave Sasuke a pretty big wake up call. In the end Naruto's unwawering support for Sasuke will probably lead to Sasuke's redemption. So the theme is about believing in people and giving them the second chance. And those people waking up to realize that there is another way to live one's life. Naruto's way of love will thriumph over Sasuke's way of hatred. So they won't abandon the devil because they believe the devil can change.

Edit:
Also just imagine a realationship between Sakura- Sasuke and Hinata- Naruto if we look at their characteristics.
All i can say: NOT fitting.
Sakura is not herself around sasuke, thats also why weve seen inner sakura in part one as long sasuke was there. Sasuke is Mr. overcool and is just not a funny guy, hes just boring.
Naruto is a emotional and very hyperactive guy who like to do dumb things. Hinata is the quite shy girl. What can a girl like her do with a guy like naruto who likes to overrush things.

Sakura is the tsundere type, shes the one who can controll naruto with her agressive side, also likes his funny and childish side and can be herself around him.

You know that this is just your speculation. You know as well that other shippers disagree and have their own speculations. Also, it's kind of irrelevant what their relationships would be like when we are discussing which ones will become canon. Two different things, you know?

If Sasuke is dull and Naruto hyper, aren't they the best pair just to balance each other out, anyway?

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 22 December 2012 - 01:26 AM.