9679 replies to this topic

[Codus N]

BINGO!

Just like Jiraiya cutting off Tsunade's admission of her feelings for him in their last conversation. Jiraiya wanted to keep pretending that he never won over Tsunade's heart, rather than he had long ago. Instead of consciously realizing the even more painful truth too late- that the very defense mechanism (jerkish comments and overly pervy comments) he employed to protect himself from the rejection he thought he'd get if he confessed his true feelings had been the only obstacle to them having had a relationship in the first place. The fact she fell in love with and still carries memories of Dan (who deeply loved her back) was never an obstacle to her having romantic feelings for Jiraiya too. She finally saw through Jiraiya's jerkiness, that he didn't just lust for her (rather obvious from his pervy comments) but loved her and longed for her love back. Thus her comment to Shizune about how things were going to change between Jiraiya and herself should he make it back. (I wish Kishimoto would have let that happen, or at least had a scene while Tsunade was in the coma where she met up with Jiraiya's spirit and told him what an idiot he was, that she had loved him all along, and she knew now he had felt the same for her....)

This, I think will pop up in the last legs of the war. I expect Dan to escape somehow from the alliance's capture and in the final battle, he'll be used against Tsunade and at the same time, Kabuto manages to get Jiraiya's sample and summons him too. In the midst of it all, I expect seeing Dan and Jiraiya arguing and angry at each other about Tsunade. It'll be more or less "why the hell weren't you there for her!!??"

[Rocket]

SS is dead, NH is nearly dead, if not dead already. But something has to be alive in order for it to be dead first.

My thoughts exactly. In fact, I personally think that SS and NH were never alive to begin with. Like you said, Sakura and Hinata's feelings for Sasuke and Naruto respectively have been one-sided the whole way through. But meh, that's just me.

Thanks for clearing it up. c:

You're welcome

My point exactly. I'm trying to say that Kishi's sub romantic plot isn't written to be obvious like other mangas. FMA and Rave had an obvious pairing right from the start. At least to me it is. Compared the Sakura, heroines from the manga you stated don't have an alternate love interest. I guess I'm just sick and tired of Kishi constantly showing Sakura's "confused" feelings. I have the same feeling as Konan-chan. I wouldn't be surprised of he slid in a supposedly SS moment yet again to keep beating into our heads that she's confused but if you think about it she's not. He's just giving unnecessary ammo to fandoms opposing NS. I guess the NS deprivation has finally got to me.

Well you're definitely right about Kishi-sensei making NS a pretty subtle pairing in comparison to other pairings in various different manga. I think that Kishi-sensei puts in random pairing moments to keep the fans guessing each time. Otherwise if they were all obvious NS moments, we would have already won the war. But judging how he's set up this whole "pairing" thing, he's gonna keep the big reveal until the end.

But yes, we are all itching to see the next NS moment in the manga. I'm getting pretty impatient myself

No matter what though, I doubt he'd just toss NS in the trash.

Shame on you, fenris-san. You only doubt that Kishi-sensei would just toss NS in the trash? Only doubt? Once again, shame on you.

I highly doubt he would do that. Doing that will only make him a bad writer, and he only has himself to blame. As the writer he should know that better than any of us.

[Fenris]

My thoughts exactly. In fact, I personally think that SS and NH were never alive to begin with. Like you said, Sakura and Hinata's feelings for Sasuke and Naruto respectively have been one-sided the whole way through. But meh, that's just me.


You're welcome


Well you're definitely right about Kishi-sensei making NS a pretty subtle pairing in comparison to other pairings in various different manga. I think that Kishi-sensei puts in random pairing moments to keep the fans guessing each time. Otherwise if they were all obvious NS moments, we would have already won the war. But judging how he's set up this whole "pairing" thing, he's gonna keep the big reveal until the end.

But yes, we are all itching to see the next NS moment in the manga. I'm getting pretty impatient myself


Shame on you, fenris-san. You only doubt that Kishi-sensei would just toss NS in the trash? Only doubt? Once again, shame on you.

I highly doubt he would do that. Doing that will only make him a bad writer, and he only has himself to blame. As the writer he should know that better than any of us.

1st bolded: Yup. I figured Kishi just added all the subplot romance drama to keep the flow of the manga going, to make people want to keep reading besides for the war stuff. Everyone loves a good romantic drama mixed with action and hate. The big reveal is, imo, obviously going to be NS, it's just being held up by all this SS/NH/God knows what drama fanservice that keeps us guessing.

2nd bolded: XD ah yes! I highly doubt it too! Plus, he's proven so far he's an excellent writer, and I hiiiighly doubt he'd ruin all his reputation of being such a good writer, by pulling off one of the most stupidest subplot acts of all manga history.

Hm, maybe it wasn't that transparent at the beginning, but it wasn't difficult to pick up the hints pretty quickly. You just have to read a few shonen manga to know how they work. Honestly, the whole love triangle in Inuyasha gave me a lot more grief, although I was pretty sure Kagome was 'the one' for him.

So very true Kim! The land of waves arc/bell training/bench scene ofc starts it off pretty obviously )

Edited by iamfenris, 19 November 2011 - 09:05 AM.

[Rocket]

The big reveal is, imo, obviously going to be NS, it's just being held up by all this SS/NH/God knows what drama fanservice that keeps us guessing.

You couldn't put it in a better way, couldn't you?

But yeah I definitely agree with that

XD ah yes! I highly doubt it too! Plus, he's proven so far he's an excellent writer, and I hiiiighly doubt he'd ruin all his reputation of being such a good writer, by pulling off one of the most stupidest subplot acts of all manga history.

He has, hasn't he? I do believe he's admitted to not being very good at writing romance, but so far I think he's actually handling it well if he wants to reveal the official pairing in the conclusion of the manga. Sure, some of us get agitated with the random SS and NH moments he throws in every now and then, but that's all part of his plan to make NS canon

[Darth Krypt]

Hm, maybe it wasn't that transparent at the beginning, but it wasn't difficult to pick up the hints pretty quickly. You just have to read a few shonen manga to know how they work. Honestly, the whole love triangle in Inuyasha gave me a lot more grief, although I was pretty sure Kagome was 'the one' for him.

What? It was obvious to me that he was going to end up with Kagome. Because Kikyo is, well......dead.

[Fenris]

You couldn't put it in a better way, couldn't you?

But yeah I definitely agree with that


He has, hasn't he? I do believe he's admitted to not being very good at writing romance, but so far I think he's actually handling it well if he wants to reveal the official pairing in the conclusion of the manga. Sure, some of us get agitated with the random SS and NH moments he throws in every now and then, but that's all part of his plan to make NS canon

I can't wait till it does. I will bake a cake.

I just want Kishi to get all this SS crap over with so we can have NS.

And just to make this post seem useful to the debate topic... I still stick to my theory earlier, though - Sakura loves Naruto, but is ashamed by her lingering feelings with Sasuke.

[Soul]

Hm, maybe it wasn't that transparent at the beginning, but it wasn't difficult to pick up the hints pretty quickly. You just have to read a few shonen manga to know how they work. Honestly, the whole love triangle in Inuyasha gave me a lot more grief, although I was pretty sure Kagome was 'the one' for him.

So true nina-chan ,Oh and I hate love triangle and it only causes me sorrow
@iamfenris I want some ,Is it just me or those lingering feelings that sakura have with sasuke and hard to give them away is because the bench that she thought it was sasuke since the only interest she saw by him, and if she learned the truth (good bye sasuke and hello naruto )

Edited by Roy menethil, 19 November 2011 - 09:36 AM.

[Rocket]

What? It was obvious to me that he was going to end up with Kagome. Because Kikyo is, well......dead.

See, that's the thing I don't want to see in the end. Naruto's only gonna end up with Sakura as the "second choice" when/if Sasuke dies. That's why I want them to meet before the final battle. [Just saying]

I can't wait till it does. I will bake a cake.

And during book week next year I shall run around my school in a Sasuke cosplay screaming "DON'T KILL MEEE NS IS CANON WOOOOOOOOT!!!"

And just to make this post seem useful to the debate topic... I still stick to my theory earlier, though - Sakura loves Naruto, but is ashamed by her lingering feelings with Sasuke.

Useless posts are useless. Please delete now.

...

JUST KIDDING

But yeah. I agree that Sakura still needs to resolve her feelings for Sasuke. I can trust her to handle that well. After all, in her confession, she did say that she wants to face reality. And hell, this is as real as it can get.

[Darth Krypt]

See, that's the thing I don't want to see in the end. Naruto's only gonna end up with Sakura as the "second choice" when/if Sasuke dies. That's why I want them to meet before the final battle. [Just saying]

I agree with you on not wanting Sasuke to die because of that but did you read/watch Inuyasha? Kikyo has been dead since the beginning of the story. So she is essentially a zombie. Pairing the hero with a zombie doesn't make sense actually.

[Don-kun]

I personally think that if there are any Sakura and Sasuke moment (not SS) it will be when the NaruSaku is confirmed or Sakura realizes that Naruto is the person who she wants to spend the rest of your life with.

That bench scene was hinted three times in the Manga
-The Poal
-Sai's gilt declaration
-Sakura confession (biggest reason why Naruto feel that Sakura will only Love Sasuke)


I really feel it will clarify and not because of hat Sakura will forget Sasuke and Say I love you Naruto that will be Fickle.
I think it will be a close scenario to the *Strong Enough* fanfic, where she will tell her self that Naruto was always there for her not Sasuke, Naruto always Love her Sasuke never Love her, Sasuke was only her childish dream, but Naruto was the only person she grew to Love and the only one her heart truly wants.



In life everything happen for a reason.

Edited by donjoseph19, 19 November 2011 - 02:59 PM.

[Phantom_999]

I agree with what everyone's saying here BUT we shouldn't delclare other fandoms as "dead" yet until a TRUE NS moment happens. not a hint, an ACTUAL NS moment that even NH and SS fans have to admit to (albeit in a "RAGE QUIT!!!!" manner) for example a kiss, or sex scene

Edited by Phantom_999, 19 November 2011 - 04:34 PM.

[dfammer]

Yes, exactly. You wouldn't believe how many fans still believe Inuyasha loved Kikyo more and only picked Kagome because she was the only one left. That will also probably happen with Sakura, no matter how much evidence we have.



Even though Kiky was a zombie, you must agree that she was still a bigger threat to Inuyasha/Kagome than Sasuke is to NaruSaku.
But yeah, there could never have been a happy end for them, but luckily Inuyasha always loved Kagome more and he's happy.

Not only that but it's dangerous and a bit messy to f%$k a zombie

Edited by dfammer, 19 November 2011 - 04:44 PM.

[Anguyen92]

I agree with what everyone's saying here BUT we shouldn't delclare other fandoms as "dead" yet until a TRUE NS moment happens. not a hint, an ACTUAL NS moment that even NH and SS fans have to admit to (albeit in a "RAGE QUIT!!!!" manner) for example a kiss, or sex scene

I don't even think that the die-hards are going to let anything go, because they are always going to make an excuse and twist things around in their favor and blah, blah, blah. But sometimes, when you see something, you just have to see it and just take the blow and not say anything bad about it. Be like, all right, this round is yours but be aware, the next round or the rounds ahead may not be so pretty in your favor.

For example, that conversation between Naruto and Hinata, now, when that scene happened, I just like, hmmmm, what does this mean? And I can't really say anything bad about that or twist anything about that until we see a conversation between Naruto and Sakura to put everything in context. I just took that scene and just approach it calmly and cordially and moved on. Thankfully, having the real Madara appear in the last scenes of the chapter actually helped the process.

[Fenris]

I agree with you. Let me make a image..


Okay.
Post time skip; Sakuras feelings revolve Sasuke revolves entirely around Naruto Revolving Sasuke, but for Naruto.

Edited by iamfenris, 19 November 2011 - 06:13 PM.

[Fyuria'sLeo]

I agree with you. Let me make a image..


Okay.
Post time skip; Sakuras feelings revolve Sasuke revolves entirely around Naruto Revolving Sasuke, but for Naruto.

Your missing something from the pre time skip you could tell Sakura had some sort of romantic feelings for Naruto she just didnt know how to express it.

Edited by Fyuria'sLeo, 19 November 2011 - 06:15 PM.

[Fenris]

Your missing something from the pre time skip you could tell Sakura had some sort of romantic feelings for Naruto she just didnt know how to express it.

Ah I forgot about that.. Hold on.



I used the example as "Fodder nin" to point to a specific chapter of where we saw her guilt.

Edited by iamfenris, 19 November 2011 - 06:24 PM.

[ciardha]

Yes, exactly. You wouldn't believe how many fans still believe Inuyasha loved Kikyo more and only picked Kagome because she was the only one left. That will also probably happen with Sakura, no matter how much evidence we have.



Even though Kiky was a zombie, you must agree that she was still a bigger threat to Inuyasha/Kagome than Sasuke is to NaruSaku.
But yeah, there could never have been a happy end for them, but luckily Inuyasha always loved Kagome more and he's happy.

But the point was in Inuyasha there were mutual romantic feelings

Inuyasha to Kikyo
Kikyo to Inuyasha
Inuyasha to Kagome
Kagome to Inuyasha

and Inuyasha still loved Kikyo after she died the second time. I knew it was going to be KagomexInuyasha but the shippers of KikyoxInuyasha actually had a valid basis for thinking it would end up with their pairing.


In Naruto there's absolutely no valid basis for Sasusaku or Naruhina. Heck the LeeSaku shippers have more validity than either of those and those shippers are polite folks that quietly believe in their ship in a kind of quirky determined way. Because Sakura was actually quite kind to Lee when he was in the hospital, visiting him and leaving him a flower too... and she mentally acknowledged his love for her in the Forest of Death and that added to her motivation to fight and become stronger along with her feelings for Naruto and Sasuke. LeeSaku isn't going to happen, not SaiSaku either (those shippers are around too, and have just as much basis as Naruhina and Sasusaku, but like the LeeSaku shippers they tend to be low key, seen some fanart floating around, and certainly after the confession arc I can see why someone would ship SaiSaku. We can see Sai has come to care about Sakura as deeply as he had Naruto after his introductory arc.)

There's also SasuKar to take into account. Unlike with Sakura, there is some manga canon evidence that Sasuke was attracted to Karin, enough so that she was able to do what only Naruto has done, turn him briefly away from his single-minded hatred of everyone, single-minded plunge into complete darkness. He even says so, using much the same words he uses with Naruto- coldly angry and violent about how they had distracted him. Is it a good relationship- no, not as Sasuke is in part 2, but the feelings were there. And Karin, unlike Sakura did not have an image of Sasuke based on an absolutely false illusion, her attraction was based in reality, what actually happened between them. Karin is a darker more alpha girl than Sakura, much more balanced with him, she routinely argued with him, and made no bones about his more stupid actions- like willingly coming to Orochimaru knowing what he was and what he wanted, instead of her case where Orochimaru found her as a young child, the sole surviving person in a civilian village after bandits slaughtered everyone else... (her ability made her sense the bloodlust coming toward the village and she hid)- a bit of this background was in the manga, but most was from her entry in the third Naruto databook.

Sasuke finds Sakura completely uninteresting in part 1, in part 2 hates her the same as he does all the other people of Konoha, except for Naruto, although he does seem to have gained a minimal respect for her- I think because she did see the threat he really wants to be to the world

Sakura crush on Sasuke in part 1, depressed and ashamed of the remnants of those feelings in part 2. Just don't see any possibility there whatsoever.

Naruto thinks Hinata is a weird, shy girl in part 1 but counts her as a friend, same as he does Lee who he also finds weird. Fights for her because he thinks Neiji acted like a vicious bully, then when he finds out the searing pain that caused Neiji to go the direction he did the fight is no longer about getting back at a bully but waking Neiji up to the fact he still has choices, he's not as caged as he thinks he is. Naruto does this a lot, begins a fight thinking someone is an unforgivable enemy then after hearing their story discovers that person's pain and the fight switches to waking that person up to a different path. Even with Nagato he was able to come to that point, but it took words on both sides not fists to get there. In part 2 he still thinks she's a weird shy girl but counts her as a friend, but has recently come to understand her better-enough to know that all she needs is to realize that she's stronger than she believes she is, is to stop idolizing him and see those qualities in herself. He has never felt anything romantic for her. And Hinata herself looks to be moving on from her part 1- chapter 437 hero worshiping crush on Naruto. In the manga we haven't seen her so much as even lightly blush around him since chapter 450. She was still hero worshiping him, but confusing that with love looks to have faded.

Sasuke may have some romantic feelings for Naruto bound up with hate and the team mate and an intense best friend bond. Kishimoto certainly gives enough of an impression that Sasuke is kind of in love with Naruto that I'm not dismissing the SasuNaru shippers out of hand, but romantically it's still completely one sided so will never happen. Naruto has intense feelings for Sasuke, but on his side it's completely brotherly. The intensity of the mutual bond does give that ship more weight than the other one sided ships- especially sasusaku and naruhina though.


Sakura has semiconscious attraction to Naruto in part 1, and is deeply in love with Naruto in part 2. Naruto is deeply in love with Sakura in parts 1 and 2.

now tell me what pairings have any basis in story reality?

Narusaku: absolute ironclad basis.

SasuKar: something mutual was there, not healthy, but still there. Only plausible ship for Sasuke- if he is redeemed and lives, iffy though even then. Karin will probably be rather wary, and will a redeemed Sasuke even think he should try after what he did to her.

[LegendaryArcanine42]

Sakura has semiconscious attraction to Naruto in part 1, and is deeply in love with Naruto in part 2. Naruto is deeply in love with Sakura in parts 1 and 2.

now tell me what pairings have any basis in story reality?

Narusaku: absolute ironclad basis.

SasuKar: something mutual was there, not healthy, but still there. Only plausible ship for Sasuke- if he is redeemed and lives, iffy though even then. Karin will probably be rather wary, and will a redeemed Sasuke even think he should try after what he did to her.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Hold it!

I missed the chapter where Sakura was confirmed to have actual romantic feelings for Naruto, let alone be deeply in love with him...

(inb4Densetsuplaysdevil'sadvocateagain...)

And also... Karin a plausible ship for Sasuke? Karin hates his guts now, and at the very best it wold be one-sided, the only plausible ship for Sasuke would either be Plot Device or Death... AND I SHIP BOTH!!! >

[Darth Krypt]

But the point was in Inuyasha there were mutual romantic feelings

Enough said. There's no need to bring out other points to debunk SS and NH.

[ciardha]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Hold it!

I missed the chapter where Sakura was confirmed to have actual romantic feelings for Naruto, let alone be deeply in love with him...

(inb4Densetsuplaysdevil'sadvocateagain...)

And also... Karin a plausible ship for Sasuke? Karin hates his guts now, and at the very best it wold be one-sided, the only plausible ship for Sasuke would either be Plot Device or Death... AND I SHIP BOTH!!! >

Go back and reread chapters 469, 470, 474, then go back and reread the chapters in the 290's, then go back and reread the rescue Gaara arc, etc... lots of manga canon proof.

Where did you get the idea that Karin hates Sasuke's guts now? There's absolutely nothing in the manga that says that. In fact just the opposite. In the manga canon she says- paraphrasing a bit here to explain the emotional context of the scene better- Cries out in anguish- "Don't do this Sasuke! Then plaintively reasoning with herself- "Maybe I should give up on him now."

That's the last we get of her true feelings about Sasuke. Her reasonable self is saying this guy is not right in the head, but her heart still cares.

Kishimoto has made it pretty obvious Sasuke will have some kind of redemption and has a decent chance of living after his redemption. My gut says if Kishimoto does go down the lives after the redemption plotline path the most likely as a chastened man- a wanderer looking to truly redeem himself and discover who he can become free from living a life being yanked around by the chains he has lived under from his legacy and by his own doing. (Naruto has successfully made most of that journey, Sasuke's hasn't begun and will be harder because he mostly willingly took the path he knew was wrong)

Edited by ciardha, 19 November 2011 - 11:24 PM.