12811 replies to this topic

[Strangelove]

It doesn't really matter if NH is canon for the whole story, Naruto could have gotten together with the Ramen girl and it still wouldn't have mattered. What mattered most was the destruction of character development for this rushed ending, which I am seriously beginning to think that the main reason was to avoid releasing The Last around the same time the new DBZ movie came out in Japan. Hoping to avoid competition with a smash hit.

[Luna]

In hindsight, you're correct, but that doesn't change the fact that Sasuke was just a prize her. How their relationship turned out doesn't change that fact.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. In a way Sasuke was Naruto's prize too.

[Narufan85]

 

Not very sucessful, average to bad 

if we consider a light novel as the same as a manga volume it was really underwhelming, considering Naruto's past popularity even more so 

 

Yeah, it certainly seems like tepid support to me. I'd be curious to see how Gaiden is being received beyond our small community.

[Narufan85]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. In a way Sasuke was Naruto's prize too.

 

That's because Sasuke is TEH BESTEST!

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

An NS family would be like the typical family ending where Naruto is ruffling his son's hair while Sakura smiles on how proud she is of her boys with a baby bump.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

I just wish people wouldn't keep using the fugly "scumbag" Naruto design. If anything, he's a physical representation of the series becoming "ugly".

[TouKen4Life3g]

I just wish people wouldn't keep using the fugly "scumbag" Naruto design. If anything, he's a physical representation of the series becoming "ugly".

Lol. But I agree though.

[Bail o' Lies]

It doesn't really matter if NH is canon for the whole story, Naruto could have gotten together with the Ramen girl and it still wouldn't have mattered. What mattered most was the destruction of character development for this rushed ending, which I am seriously beginning to think that the main reason was to avoid releasing The Last around the same time the new DBZ movie came out in Japan. Hoping to avoid competition with a smash hit.

Honestly I don't think the ending or the Last had to do with with the DB movie.

 

It was more kishimoto was getting tried writing Naruto and people around him probably asked him how much of the plot was left to go from the time he said he wanted it to end after the war arc. You know how long it would take for him to get there 2014 2015 or 2016. He probably guessed by the end of 2014 or somewhere around the middle of 2015 ending a little after chapter 700. They probably liked the idea of Naruto ending in 2014 at chapter 700 so they could have the Last Naruto movie come out at the end of the year to get the holiday movie goers watching it. Then they could make 2015 the year of Bolt. With novels explaining all the stuff that happened after chapter 700, a musical, another one of those ninja storm games, a sequel manga about Bolt, and then a movie about Bolt so they could milk this series as much as possible.

 

And since Naruto is ending which means they are losing their biggest international moneymaker why not make it something the  western fanbase wanted so hopefully they would stick around and by other produces.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 19 May 2015 - 06:49 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I guess that's what happens when you don't have dedication to your writing: it all goes to kittenter.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 19 May 2015 - 06:59 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

I guess that's what happens when you don't have dedication to your writing: it all goes to kittenter.

Apparently if you look at the table of content of the Japanese weekly shonen jump. The first chapter of the gaiden was number two after one piece in the table of content and since then has been slipping farther and farther down that table with each chapter.

[Aizen-Sama]

In hindsight, you're correct, but that doesn't change the fact that Sasuke was just a prize her. How their relationship turned out doesn't change that fact.

Well let's agree to disagree. I don't believe Sakura saw Sasuke like a prize to the same extent that Hinata saw Naruto like one. It was more about giving into her bad boy fantasies than winning him. SS fans do see Sasuke as a prize though and think Sakura "won" him but of course they're completely wrong. XD

[Otaru]

Agreed. Any sane woman would've chosen Naruto over Sasuke.

That's what Kishi wanted to do. He said it multiple time through MinaKushi, JiraTsu, YahiKo and ObiRin. Don't forget Jiraiya's novel...

[Narufan85]

Well let's agree to disagree. I don't believe Sakura saw Sasuke like a prize to the same extent that Hinata saw Naruto like one. It was more about giving into her bad boy fantasies than winning him. SS fans do see Sasuke as a prize though and think Sakura "won" him but of course they're completely wrong. XD

 

Jumping into this discussion late but while the nuts and bolts may vary between Hinata and Sakura, I think both situations are similar in that we, as readers, are fed really flimsy reasons for why Hinata and Sakura desire Naruto and Sasuke. In both cases, those flimsy reasons are stated early in Part 1 and largely left underdeveloped throughout the rest of the manga. It's poor storytelling.

 

Sasuke may be a prize; he may be part of a bad boy fantasy. Naruto absolutely is a prize to Hinata. But both are "love stories" built on no foundation and force fed to the reader.

[Otaru]

I secretly hope that Kishimoto is not OK at all with what they forced him to do, and that he will put something discreet enough in the gaiden to show it.

[tricksie]

I secretly hope that Kishimoto is not OK at all with what they forced him to do, and that he will put something discreet enough in the gaiden to show it.

 

Yes me too. I'm hoping that he will meet up with Sasuke and tell him about how hard it's been for, about her being out of it, and get angry with him for not being there for her. If that happened, it would be the firrst glimpse of the Naruto we once knew. 

 

And if that happened, it could show the only real outward feelings from Naruto would be him expressing concern for Sakura. Then it would go back to no-chemistry scenes between SS and the walking scenes that NH only seem to have. 

 

It would be nice to see something discreetly NS in part 3. And as much as Kishimoto pandered to the shipping wars, it's not outside of the realm of possibility that he might do it.

[Narufan85]

 

Yes me too. I'm hoping that he will meet up with Sasuke and tell him about how hard it's been for, about her being out of it, and get angry with him for not being there for her. If that happened, it would be the firrst glimpse of the Naruto we once knew. 

 

And if that happened, it could show the only real outward feelings from Naruto would be him expressing concern for Sakura. Then it would go back to no-chemistry scenes between SS and the walking scenes that NH only seem to have. 

 

It would be nice to see something discreetly NS in part 3. And as much as Kishimoto pandered to the shipping wars, it's not outside of the realm of possibility that he might do it.

 

I wish we would have seen Naruto express half as much outward emotion over his own feelings for Sakura as he did for the weird relationship they shared with Sasuke. Everything was set up so nicely for a triumphant moment where Naruto could finally be open and confront Sakura and his feelings for her after handling the POAL. Instead, we see SS steal the forehead moment NS fans had been waiting for since chapter 3.

[LuckyChi7]

So how is everyone doing?

[Otaru]

 

Yes me too. I'm hoping that he will meet up with Sasuke and tell him about how hard it's been for, about her being out of it, and get angry with him for not being there for her. If that happened, it would be the firrst glimpse of the Naruto we once knew. 

 

And if that happened, it could show the only real outward feelings from Naruto would be him expressing concern for Sakura. Then it would go back to no-chemistry scenes between SS and the walking scenes that NH only seem to have. 

 

It would be nice to see something discreetly NS in part 3. And as much as Kishimoto pandered to the shipping wars, it's not outside of the realm of possibility that he might do it.

 

Oh yes. That would be gold. I don't believe one second Kishimoto DECIDED to put Naruto with Hinata. I want to see a glimpse of what he's really thinking right now.

 

 

I wish we would have seen Naruto express half as much outward emotion over his own feelings for Sakura as he did for the weird relationship they shared with Sasuke. Everything was set up so nicely for a triumphant moment where Naruto could finally be open and confront Sakura and his feelings for her after handling the POAL. Instead, we see SS steal the forehead moment NS fans had been waiting for since chapter 3.

 

So true

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

 

Jumping into this discussion late but while the nuts and bolts may vary between Hinata and Sakura, I think both situations are similar in that we, as readers, are fed really flimsy reasons for why Hinata and Sakura desire Naruto and Sasuke. In both cases, those flimsy reasons are stated early in Part 1 and largely left underdeveloped throughout the rest of the manga. It's poor storytelling.

 

Sasuke may be a prize; he may be part of a bad boy fantasy. Naruto absolutely is a prize to Hinata. But both are "love stories" built on no foundation and force fed to the reader.

It's why I said a while back that Sakura and Hinata's crushes in Part 1 were pretty much the same in that they were pretty shallow as they "loved" only what they saw on the surface at the time, but never truly diving deeper, and the only difference being Sakura being vocal about her crush while Hinata remained silent.

Sakura was gradually progressing out of that as Shippuden was going on, finally accepting that Sasuke wasn't who she thought he was and that everything she wanted from him, she got from Naruto, until SP was all "Nope! Can't have her being better than Hinata-hime! Erase it!", and we end up with the one we have now.

On the other hand, what little development we got from Hinata through the Chunin Exams was also erased and she not only never progressed out of her shallow crush at all (much less ever truly "understanding" Naruto or his feelings on anything), but actually regressed as a character so that nothing except her one and only crush was on her mind and mattered to her..All the talk about "becoming stronger", "changing the Hyuga Clan", and all that? May as well have never existed. Even now, it seems pretty implied that Hinata is not the Clan Heiress/Clan Head or living in the Hyuga Compound, and possibly not even a true member by marrying out to Naruto rather than Naruto marrying into the Clan. if that's the case, then she has absolutely no power or influence in it anymore, much less being able to change/abolish a generations-long clan law, Of course, more hypocrisy is shown in that there is also no sign of her having been branded with the Caged Bird Seal nor Boruto and Himawari as her children, even though it was made clear that the Hyuga Clan never wanted to risk the Byakugan leaving the Clan/falling into (potential) enemy hands.

The only reasonable explanation would be that she had Naruto force the clan to change/abolish the law as Hokage, which would be further hypocrisy on Naruto's character. Sure, he'd want to try to help change it because of it being a bad and disgusting law, but he's also not one who would simply use power/position to force things to change as that would be no different than other such people he spoke against. I also doubt Hiashi would simply change/abolish the law at the drop of a dime either.

 

[Narufan85]

It's why I said a while back that Sakura and Hinata's crushes in Part 1 were pretty much the same in that they were pretty shallow as they "loved" only what they saw on the surface at the time, but never truly diving deeper, and the only difference being Sakura being vocal about her crush while Hinata remained silent.

Sakura was gradually progressing out of that as Shippuden was going on, finally accepting that Sasuke wasn't who she thought he was and that everything she wanted from him, she got from Naruto, until SP was all "Nope! Can't have her being better than Hinata-hime! Erase it!", and we end up with the one we have now.

On the other hand, what little development we got from Hinata through the Chunin Exams was also erased and she not only never progressed out of her shallow crush at all (much less ever truly "understanding" Naruto or his feelings on anything), but actually regressed as a character so that nothing except her one and only crush was on her mind and mattered to her..All the talk about "becoming stronger", "changing the Hyuga Clan", and all that? May as well have never existed. Even now, it seems pretty implied that Hinata is not the Clan Heiress/Clan Head or living in the Hyuga Compound, and possibly not even a true member by marrying out to Naruto rather than Naruto marrying into the Clan. if that's the case, then she has absolutely no power or influence in it anymore, much less being able to change/abolish a generations-long clan law, Of course, more hypocrisy is shown in that there is also no sign of her having been branded with the Caged Bird Seal nor Boruto and Himawari as her children, even though it was made clear that the Hyuga Clan never wanted to risk the Byakugan leaving the Clan/falling into (potential) enemy hands.

The only reasonable explanation would be that she had Naruto force the clan to change/abolish the law as Hokage, which would be further hypocrisy on Naruto's character. Sure, he'd want to try to help change it because of it being a bad and disgusting law, but he's also not one who would simply use power/position to force things to change as that would be no different than other such people he spoke against. I also doubt Hiashi would simply change/abolish the law at the drop of a dime either.

 

 

A fantastic point. Additionally, the stunted and/or regressive development of characters like Sakura and Hinata is symptomatic of Kishi's larger inability to portray women as strong, independent characters outside of romantic attachments. Single women in 700 are portrayed as fat (Anko), bored (Tenten), or depressed (Mizukage - also fat). 

 

Interestingly enough, the only two kunoichi who show any interest in the ninja arts are Karui and Ino, the same Ino who also got "her" prize in Sai, even though the development there was limited to "looks like Sasuke."