54188 replies to this topic

[Superman333]

I wouldn't know because I never watched DBZ

regardless of that the whole relationship was different as a whole . 

[Darkness]

Ok... since I'm up and I'm not going to work today, let's debunk some unthoghtful arguments shall we?

 

Vegeta - Sasuke comparison

- Also, nukenin or not, Sasuke's "evilness" is FAR less than that of (initial) Vegeta's, I'm sure you'll agree with that.

 

This is too subjective to be used in any valid analysis. And even in that case, both Sasuke and Vegeta were willing not only to kill innocent people to achieve their goals, but anyone who dare stand in their way including their own companions. When you say Vegeta's "evilness" is greater than Sasuke you are implying because Vegeta killed more people this means he is more evil. Don't you think Sasuke would have destroyed Konoha by now if he could do the Big Bang Attack? His incapability to do so is not an excuse nor does it mean his motives are less evil than Vegeta's.

- And Vegeta STARTED as an ENEMY, not just "strayed away".

 

Sasuke started as friend/rival, clearly turned into an enemy and still arguably is. Still not seeing any similarities so far.

- Still, weird couple or not, but we got Trunks, eventually. So far, I see NO real problem for this to happen in Naruto as well, EVENTUALLY. I REALLY don't see any.

 

Really, no problem? You are only disregarding the main character's love for her and all the moments they demonstrate affection for each other, romantically or not. Bulma at the time didn't have feelings for any DBZ character and vice-versa except maybe for Yamcha... but who is Yamcha again?

- And especially if you consider Sakura's reaction to Sasuke's return - definitely NOT hate or anger. So, Sai or whatever, but SasuSaku is NOT dead as of yet.

 

Reaction you say, the same reaction everyone, including myself, had when he showed up and announced out of nowhere "I'm gonna be Hogake". Definetely not hate or anger, but surprise and distrust.

2. You are disagreeing with Naruto, who verbally thanked Hinata for "being there for him". (Even if he meant NOT ONLY her, she's still included. Oh, and he DIDN'T think of Sakura at all during that chapter - just like Sakura didn't think of Naruto in 540.)

Also, WHERE WAS Sakura in those very times you talk about? AHA... EXACTLY.

Also, stop lying.

Hinata smiled during the post-Pain hug, cause she was happy FOR Naruto.

Also, you should check deviantart for NH manga compilations - there's plenty of Naruto's quotes showing that he understands Hinata, AND she understands him.

And it started as long ago as Neji's fights.

I never claimed that Naruto LOVES Hinata NOW, only that he's starting to being open for that eventuality - so stop BSing on that.

As of 505, it can equally refer to Hinata's shyness (vs Sakura's boldness), also she does stand right next to him anyways.

He basically put both girls together (and close to himself, in the attention center as well) - which is contrary to what you try to imply.

 

Naruto thanked Hinata for being there. Yes it was a very cute moment for Hinata supporters, but Naruto hasn't demonstrated there nor ever a single evidence that he is maybe starting to change the way he sees Hinata. This is further evidenced when he said to his father in front of everyone, including Hinata, that his girlfriend is Sakura. I can understand how this is hard to swallow.

Also I can see you are not very good at understanding how one person's reasons are more important than what they are actually capable of doing. If you take into consideration how Sakura was willing to kill the person she still had feelings for just to alleviate Naruto's burden, Hinata's personal reasons are way behind.

TRIED, or HAD TO?Which is my main argument against "how much Sakura did for Naruto".

1) She obviously DID help/save him - but was it HER CHOICE? Or DUTY?

Seriously, basically in ALL instances where Sakura was protecting Naruto, it was either part of the mission, her duty as his active teammate, OR she had personal interests at stake (that had nothing to do with Naruto).

Like, in the FOD, she was also interested in finishing the exam - wasn't her selfless choice, rather she HAD to try her best.

2) Then, vs Orochimaru - she had to be a good teammate and help him, no choice there either

Even Sasori wasn't her choice as much (and it wasn't a direct help for Naruto, rather Gaara).

Again, Sakura DID help Naruto a lot - but there's nothing SELFLESS about it, mostly DUTY.

Now, it wasn't Hinata's DUTY to jump at Pain (WHY didn't Sakura do just the same? she had a Hyuuga nearby), OR (trying to) sacrifice her life in 614.

(It's even harder to believe that Sakura's seal couldn't be activated a few MINUTES earlier - so she'd save Neji by preventing the whole assault, OR using herself as a living shield with HIGH recovery stat - instead of Neji/Hinata who hadn't it.)

Overall, Sakura rarely (if ever) did anything "heroic" for Naruto - that's what Hinata is for, really.

3) Next, Sakura wanted to kill Sasuke only for Sasuke's own sake - which is why she FAILED.

Cause she still loved him too much to actually kill.

This is obvious, cause if she wanted to do it for Naruto's sake - WHAT stopped her, HUH?

4) Next, you again (and typically for NS) confuse friendship for romance.

(Just a reminder: I DON'T insist that Naruto LOVES Hinata NOW - just to prevent your BS on that.)

NaruSaku IS a friendship, maybe even strong - but I see no romance there.

To sum NS up:

It has a lot of friendship development, but the real romance hasn't shown at all.

 

 

1) This same lousy argument can be used against Hinata or every other character who has ever tried to save someone. Obito didn't need to save Rin it was his duty he didn't love her. Minato didn't have to save Kushina it was his duty as Hokage he didn't love her. Hinata didn't have to save Naruto it was her duty as a Konoha Shinobi. 

 

2) Yes, that's what all good teammates would do. Cry due to intense emotional stress, try to stop Naruto not worrying about their own safety and even claim they are going to save Sasuke for him. I can see Kiba doing that! [Little sarcasm sign here]

 

3) Are we even reading the same story for you to claim that Sakura only wanted to kill Sasuke for his own sake? In a matter of fact, Sakura at that moment chose Naruto over Sasuke. It was Sakura's way to redeem herself for all the pain she caused to Naruto (pretty selfish huh?) and at the same time save Sasuke from his evil ways. The only reason she couldn't do it is because she still had feelings for Sasuke but her reasons for trying to do such, although you will probably disregard them, are still there.

 

4) Your hypocrisy is strong in this one. This a sin every ship has committed, including your own. Until it's been proved otherwise, you are as guilty as anyone.

 

PS: I'm responding to this someone on YouTube, not to you Dalton. 

Edited by Darkness, 26 August 2013 - 02:41 PM.

[T XD]

has Vegeta ever tried to kill Bulma .? Has Bulma ever tried to kill Vegeta .? has Vegeta ever once called Bulma annoying .?  Please answer this . 

Nop, nothing from Vegeta and Bulma are like SS. Even their story isn't the same at all. Bulma was so much older than Goku which the author wanted her with someone, so he had Vegeta who wasn't even a friend of Goku. But, when Vegeta and Bulma are together, he became his friend and sacrificed himself for planet Earth for his precious people which Goku was one of them. I'm saying this to show how the two canon and non canon pairing are so different, and at least Vegeta showed a love interest when he met Bulma.

 

Kishi was inspired from DBZ just a few things: some story lines and the pairing. He has set NS by himself, but because he likes DBZ, he compares how NS and Goku and Chi-Chi are so similar in character. Goku is the hero with a determined, annoying, goof character, and Chi-Chi is a tsundere.

 

Some anti-NS people like to use this as in Chi-Chi was all blushed at some point, but they don't know or ignore that Chi-Chi has immediately liked Goku from the first time which is why she blushes from the first like how Sakura does with Naruto sometimes. Plus hits, has a temper and all the tsundere stuff that are shown in the story.

Edited by T XD, 26 August 2013 - 02:12 PM.

[Inferno180]

One thing that just makes NS have a lot more potential is just well, the way MK occurred, started out rough but became better as Minato and Kushina grew and Kushina changed her outlook. I mean is it that hard to imagine Naruto would blurt something about liking Sakura's forehead or her getting surprised it was him. Basically one thing we see in NS now is how the moments of MK occurred, NS will repeat them as we have seen in the past like how both NS and MK began. I mean however it occurs, its not impossible for it too, I mean 631 was one of the biggest chapters we could never have seen coming. When 627 came out we thought it would be all action and quite a while before the kages arrived, but 630 ended with that sudden appearance of Minato and gave the Sakura-Kushina parallel. Even for whatever claims people had for SS, well kinda funny Sakura was being cautious and confused over Sasuke given what he last tried to do to her and how she advocated to Naruto to fight, not Sasuke. Even more so after 632 made a dumb minor argument with others over dirt or blush well, kinda doesn't matter at this point when 635 revealed she didn't trust Sasuke. All I'm saying now, dumb as it may sound to others, a revelation to Sakura about the chapter 3 event could come in the future. Would be a shock to Sakura to see the first one who complimented her on something she hated was the one she least expected. Whatever the case yeah with all the past and current development and interaction, the occurrences with the parallels, and both the assured and potential future events (assured being more NS development in the future obviously over stuff like Sasuke, not trusting him, the aspect of both of the guys dying, and Sakura's own concern for Naruto which is displayed a lot and potential being stuff like the forehead revisit, 631 gave a lot of potential stuff in terms of connecting more from the Sakura-Kushina parallel) a lot more can come now than ever. Just a matter of time between the drama side of things with Sasuke, how Sakura is starting to not trust him, how she worries about Naruto, and the downtime other stuff can occur with before the Naruto Sasuke fight in the end.

[Superman333]

Nop, nothing from Vegeta and Bulma are like SS. Even their story isn't the same at all. Bulma was so much older than Goku which the author wanted her with someone, so he had Vegeta who wasn't even a friend of Goku, but when Vegeta and Bulma are together, he became his friend and sacrificed himself for planet Earth for his precious people which Goku was one of them. I'm saying this to show how the two canon and non canon pairing are so different, and at least Vegeta showed a love interest when he met Bulma.

 

Kishi was inspired from DBZ just a few things: some story lines and the pairing. He has set NS by himself, but because he likes DBZ, he compares how NS and Goku and Chi-Chi are so similar in character. Goku is the hero with a determined, annoying, goof character, and Chi-Chi is a tsundere.

 

Some anti-NS people like to use this as in Chi-Chi was all blushed at some point, but they don't know or ignore that Chi-Chi has immediately liked Goku from the first time which is why she blushes from the first like how Sakura does with Naruto sometimes. Plus hits, has a temper and all the tsundere stuff that are shown in the story.

why thank TX D you only further proved my point .

[mmrc27]

Some might actually take their own lives if they're hardcore enough. there was this small kid who died buried in his own sandbox because he was trying to imitate gaara of the sands, and another 13 year old kid committed suicide after seeing his favorite character itachi die.

 

they were too much attached and affected. =(

[Darkness]

 

they were too much attached and affected. =(

 

One thing I can say is once NS becomes canon this forum should temporarily remove the register button. They will come with everything to release their frustration.  

Edited by Darkness, 26 August 2013 - 01:58 PM.

[Superman333]

 

One thing I can say is once NS becomes canon this forum should temporarily remove the register button. They will come with everything to release their frustration.  

I say let them do it , what will they be able to do and say  , NS is Canon . 

[sushi.]

Would you like to 'debunk' this video then? Idk if any of you have seen it, but it's pretty funny. Especially the comments on the video lol.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=JZv42KSOT4o

This vid completely misses the point.

 

Kushina's temper is not a bad trait(according to herself, her verbal tick is), because Kishi doesn't draw bad traits for comedy. Bad traits are not supposed to be funny. 90% of anime women have this trait lol..

 

Even so, It doesn't matter what Kushina wants or she meant with her advice. But lets take that road anyway; Is it more likely that Kushina meant "Find someone who also will risk their life for you(what a tragic thing to say )", or "find someone with my best traits"? What she meant was, find someone who reminds you of me", because she knows she's not going to be there for him. Now Sakura hasn't reminded him of his mother, but I don't think Naruto is consciously following the advice. Men tend to subconsciously find someone like their mother, this is also real life fact.

 

What Kishi meant with Kushina's words was to give us a glimpse in the future, and whether you like it or not; He did it by hinting similarities between MK/NS backstory, undeniable panel similarity and confirm it with her temper.

 

So the next point is that Naruto changed Hinata..he changed Sakura too(in fact that's kind of his thing). Sakura doesn't know (yet) - she thinks it was Sasuke. Which is why she is not open about it like Hinata is.

 

During the chuunin exams Hinata began to like herself more, thanks to Naruto. Does she like herself? More..yes, but she still has confidence issues. So the answer is no. And guess what? Even after Ino's influence, Sakura still hated her forehead in chapter 3. After Naruto cheered her up, we never saw any of that again.

 

I admit that Hinata has given Naruto strength. This has happened twice. One in the proud failure speech(she's after all a failure herself, so she can relate to it), and in 615 where she can also relate to Neji's death+reminding him of his and her ninjaway. This is not because she has a magical connection to him, but because she can relate to him in certain aspects. Just like Shikamaru could cheer him up when Jiraiya died because he knew how he felt, or when Sakura has countless times supported him in their quest with Sasuke(to the point where he tells her how happy it makes him).

 

I also admit that Hinata has risked her life for Naruto. But I fail to see how she is exceptional in this.

 

What about this?

Or this?

Everyone is willing to sacrifice themselves for Naruto now, because they will clear his path to the future. This was emphazied first in the Pain arc, where even Ebisu who initially loathed him, grew on him. They believe in him and are willing to die for him, not only because they love him(Tsunade and Iruka sure do). But because he is important to them, he is the future. This is what Hinata's speech in 615 is all about, everyone's lives are connected.

 

Despite seeing another tsundere(Karin), only Sakura reminds Minato of Kushina. Her bad temper is significant, Kishi is singling it out for a purpose.  Hinata's sacrifice should not be more significant than others, even if..that would first of all be a kitten thing to say for all the others, but also because only Neji was put in the same bose as Minato and Kushina in 615.

 

But of course Kushina would want his son to be with a girl that loves him as much as she does, and for the 1000th time; NS fans believe Sakura does.

[Darkness]

I say let them do it , what will they be able to do and say  , NS is Canon . 

 

It won't be very beautiful. It might be fun at first because of the hype, but later the forums will be full of rage topics and garbage. It will be harsh on the admins to clean it up... I mean it's best to be safe than sorry. Besides you can always see the fans raging by simply looking at the many other forums on the neighborhood.

Edited by Darkness, 26 August 2013 - 02:10 PM.

[Inferno180]

Not really important but when people argue over Naruto's response to Minato in 631, well with "more or less" or "if you're splitting hairs" well this is the meaning of those idiom statements:

 

people wanted a precise answer so here we go

 

more or less: somewhat; approximately; a phrase used to express vagueness or uncertainty, to some degree, speaking imprecisely; to a certain extent.

 

if you're splitting hairs: to quibble; to try to make petty distinctions, to argue about whether details that are not important are exactly correct, to argue about very small differences or unimportant details

 

So with these meanings though Naruto still says Yes and goes on to say these so if we wanted to be precise then Naruto using "more or less" towards what Minato asked, Naruto would be claiming Sakura is his girlfriend somewhat, approximately, not clearly shown, to some degree, imprecisely, or to a certain extent.

 

If we go by splitting hairs then Naruto is saying Sakura is his girlfriend but saying it as "there is no serious difference" "that the details of her being his girlfriend don't matter," or to argue about very small differences or unimportant details.

 

So if anything, it seems like the more or less one is much more straightforward, even for how Viz translated it well Naruto is still in the long run saying yes, yep, or I suppose you can consider it like that, either way, all routes point to Naruto saying Sakura is basically his girlfriend. The split hairs one isn't as clear but if anything, most likely naruto saying "it doesn't matter the difference between yes and no, he actually considers Sakura his girlfriend." basically since he said "I guess if you're splitting hairs" well then this can mean he considers Sakura his girlfriend regardless of the details. What I find funny in this meaning is how NH fans made such a big deal over those panels with 631 the girlfriend comment and Kushina. Same deal with NS and SS fans over Sakura's rescue in 632, don't try to make petty distinctions or arguing about details that are very small and unimportant.

 

So yeah, by these idioms, not like it was needed but for clarity if anyone wanted, despite the issues others made over 631, Naruto is basically saying he considers Sakura his girlfriend. No amount of trying to say that its girl and friend divided in the original dialogue, that he was joking, or thinking the viz translation would have any difference. Naruto considers Sakura his girlfriend, if he honestly considers her his girlfriend well that should be a notion he still likes her, liking the idea of her as his girlfriend, still having feelings for her is not too hard to consider. But this is it, Naruto considers Sakura his girlfriend. If he thinks like that towards her well chances are he still loves her, not like he would give up especially after Sai told him why Sakura did what she did. So yeah Naruto still loves Sakura, otherwise why even put stuff like this in especially when we get a Kushina parallel too? Naruto practically showed he still loved Sakura since he considers her his girlfriend.

[Superman333]

 

It won't be very beautiful. It might be fun at first because of the hype, but later the forums will be full of rage topics and garbage. It will be harsh on the admins to clean it up... I mean it's best to be safe than sorry. Besides you can always see the fans raging by simply looking at the many other forums on the neighborhood.

lols yeah you right , I will love to see go on NH or SS site after NS becomes canon lols . 

[mmrc27]

lols yeah you right , I will love to see go on NH or SS site after NS becomes canon lols . 

 

they will all be heartbroken =(   =)

[Superman333]

 

they will all be heartbroken =(   =)

yeah .......... AH WELL .  :)

[Canadian_DJ]

Cant wait for the new chapter.

Lol you guys. Long ass wall of text that im not even reading!

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Ok... since I'm up and I'm not going to work today, let's debunk some unthoghtful arguments shall we?

 

Vegeta - Sasuke comparison

 

This is too subjective to be used in any valid analysis. And even in that case, both Sasuke and Vegeta were willing not only to kill innocent people to achieve their goals, but anyone who dare stand in their way including their own companions. When you say Vegeta's "evilness" is greater than Sasuke you are implying because Vegeta killed more people this means he is more evil. Don't you think Sasuke would have destroyed Konoha by now if he could do the Big Bang Attack? His incapability to do so is not an excuse nor does it mean his motives are less evil than Vegeta's.

 

Sasuke started as friend/rival, clearly turned into an enemy and still arguably is. Still not seeing any similarities so far.

 

 

Really, no problem? You are only disregarding the main character's love for her and all the moments they demonstrate affection for each other, romantically or not. Bulma at the time didn't have feelings for any DBZ character and vice-versa except maybe for Yamcha... but who is Yamcha again?

 

 

Reaction you say, the same reaction everyone, including myself, had when he showed up and announced out of nowhere "I'm gonna be Hogake". Definetely not hate or anger, but surprise and distrust.

 

 

Naruto thanked Hinata for being there. Yes it was a very cute moment for Hinata supporters, but Naruto hasn't demonstrated there nor ever a single evidence that he is maybe starting to change the way he sees Hinata. This is further evidenced when he said to his father in front of everyone, including Hinata, that his girlfriend is Sakura. I can understand how this is hard to swallow.

Also I can see you are not very good at understanding how one person's reasons are more important than what they are actually capable of doing. If you take into consideration how Sakura was willing to kill the person she still had feelings for just to alleviate Naruto's burden, Hinata's personal reasons are way behind.

 

 

1) This same lousy argument can be used against Hinata or every other character who has ever tried to save someone. Obito didn't need to save Rin it was his duty he didn't love her. Minato didn't have to save Kushina it was his duty as Hokage he didn't love her. Hinata didn't have to save Naruto it was her duty as a Konoha Shinobi. 

 

2) Yes, that's what all good teammates would do. Cry due to intense emotional stress, try to stop Naruto not worrying about their own safety and even claim they are going to save Sasuke for him. I can see Kiba doing that!

 

3) Are we even reading the same story for you to claim that Sakura only wanted to kill Sasuke for his own sake? In a matter of fact, Sakura at that moment chose Naruto over Sasuke. It was Sakura's way to redeem herself for all the pain she caused to Naruto (pretty selfish huh?) and at the same time save Sasuke from his evil ways. The only reason she couldn't do it is because she still had feelings for Sasuke but her reasons for trying to do such, although you will probably disregard them, are still there.

 

4) Your hypocrisy is strong in this one. This a sin every ship has committed, including your own. Until it's been proved otherwise, you are as guilty as anyone.

 

PS: I'm responding to this someone on YouTube, not to you Dalton. 

Vegeta is one of the supreme symbols of virility.

Sasuke doesnt get even close to him, they dont have any similarities.

[T XD]

 

One thing I can say is once NS becomes canon this forum should temporarily remove the register button. They will come with everything to release their frustration.  

I say let the forums here open, but if it gets nasty and out of control, remove temporarily the register button.

 

Either way, if there would be too many angry posts that it gets out of control, the mods would be here to ban them. Once banned, there's no coming back.

Edited by T XD, 26 August 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[mmrc27]

I say let the forums here open, but if it gets nasty and out of control, remove temporarily the register button.

 

Either way, if there would be too many angry posts that it gets out of control, the mods would be here to ban them. Once banned, there's no coming back.

 

let them bash if that's what makes them happy. they can no longer change the story line if NS became the canon and the series has ended :)

[TouKen4Life3g]

Wow I missed a lot. What is the topic, my friends?

[Superman333]

Wow I missed a lot. What is the topic, my friends?

go on page 337 and read the crap the NH fan wrote , thats the topic bra .