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H&E's NaruSaku Debate Thread!


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#6741 Canadian_DJ

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:03 AM

QUOTE (swagosaurus @ Dec 16 2012, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What's with all the hate, man? This is the NaruSaku DEBATE thread. Debating isn't one sided. It'd get pretty stale, and it has gotten pretty stale, if we just talked about how great this pairing is. Sometimes, I swear I'm the only one who sees the logic in Luffy's posts. He brings up good points; especially regarding the fandom.

Some of us need to get off the high horse, and look at what could possibly happen. It would make it much easier, and less mortifying, in the case that NS doesn't happen, which there's still the good chance that it won't.

H&E, I am dissapoint.

True words of wisdom right there people a_thumbs.gif lol, yeah i mean luffy DID say SOME logic i mean it wasn't ALL bad, in my book atleast.

13080302030649702.gif~                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ナル~サク 4/3 The day he fell in love with her ♥ 豪傑 そて 婦 hero, great man and heroine, brave woman°°°★Official Top Ten overall NARUTO characters: 1. Kakashi 2.Naruto 3.Sasuke 4.Iruka 5.Shikamaru 6.Gaara 7.Sakura 8.Neji 9.Itachi 10.Lee★°°° <p>Best ofナル~サク


#6742 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:04 AM

QUOTE (Qia @ Dec 16 2012, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ever since I read the SasuKarin manifesto, I started shipping them so hard. Hopefully it's the same for others, because it really is beautiful and very much different from SS biggrin.gif


Wow, its good to see OMF faces here! How yah doing, Qia? I'm SK from OMF and the only guy to use this front in the Rel Thread lmao! Well, I'm really not into manifesto these days, but what I really liked about the SK pairing is that Karin is the key to unite both the Uchiha and Uzumakis together and Naruto and Sasuke would be like relatives.

QUOTE (zacrathedemon5 @ Dec 16 2012, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
*sigh* I'm not going to bother with a SasuKarin manifesto. Why? Because it'll destroy Karin's character if SasuKarin happens. Sasuke nearly killed her with no remorse, and that's a ship that has support? Might as well ship SasuSaku while you're at it.

I care about Karin's character. That's why I think SK is awful. And, really, no argument anyone has can detract that. Sorry, just not a fan of characters getting destroyed for the sake of romance.

If Karin forgives Sasuke, then Kishi will have wrecked her. Simple as that.


I find this post to be somewhat red herring. If SK is canon material, which I believe that it is so far. Karin won't just forgive him and be his fangirl once again. Karin has seen what Sasuke has become and she's not going to let her hormones get the better of her. And apparently, Sasuke was either hesitating or slowly try to deal the death blow to Karin. And the fact that Sasuke found out that she is an Uzumaki and he seemed to be surprised and happy about it. So there is more to meet the eyes than some chidori blade through the chest that never killed her instantly.

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 17 December 2012 - 06:07 AM.

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#6743 redragon88

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:07 AM

QUOTE (zacrathedemon5 @ Dec 17 2012, 02:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So you're implying that someone trying to kill someone with no remorse isn't enough reason to dismiss romantic intentions with them?

There's obviously no point in arguing anymore. I'm sorry if I sound like an a**hole by saying that but... really. facepalm.png We two are never going to see eye to eye if that's how you think.

And, yes, as far as I'm concerned Naruto should have left Sasuke alone and cut all ties with him as soon as Sasuke fought him about it. Sasuke has been the reason that Naruto's maturity growth has been limited.

Relax man, no need to facepalm. laugh.gif

My point was that if you dislike Sakura's and Karin's love based on how Sasuke tried to kill them, then you should also think the same when it comes to Naruto. And you do, so I completely understand how you feel and respect it.

What would be weird is saying that it's fine for Naruto to care about Sasuke, but that if the girls do it's insulting to their character. Either is fine for the Naruto, Sakura, and Karin to care about Sasuke, or not good for any of them.

#6744 CloudMountainJuror

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:12 AM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ Dec 17 2012, 12:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Relax man, no need to facepalm. laugh.gif

My point was that if you dislike Sakura's and Karin's love based on how Sasuke tried to kill them, then you should also think the same when it comes to Naruto. And you do, so I completely understand how you feel and respect it.

What would be weird is saying that it's fine for Naruto to care about Sasuke, but that if the girls do it's insulting to their character. Either is fine for the Naruto, Sakura, and Karin to care about Sasuke, or not good for any of them.

You're right, the facepalm was a bit much. Sorry about that. x_x

Alright, I got ya. Yeah, that would be weird and hypocritical if I said it was fine for Naruto but not for the others.

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#6745 Canadian_DJ

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:21 AM

QUOTE (Paptala @ Dec 16 2012, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You’re relying on a false dichotomy, that Sakura can’t have any romantic feelings for Naruto if she still has romantic feelings for Sasuke.

There is plenty of proof for the argument that Sakura has been developing romantic feelings for Naruto over part two, without her realizing the nature of those feelings, while still continuing to consciously cling to her romantic feelings for Sasuke.

Her blatant attraction to Naruto in 245, Yamato’s words to her in 297 and her reaction to them, the fact that she was bothered that Hinata loves Naruto in 442, her hugging him in 450 (and the crowds reaction to it), and the clear distinction in her lying abilities when she was talking about her feeling for Sasuke and her feelings for Naruto in her “painful” confession at the summit all support it.

The third data book even outright states that she doesn’t know what she feels for Naruto currently, but that he makes her heart beat faster.

Why didn’t Sakura come to a love epiphany when Sai told her Naruto loves her, and during her confession at the summit? Because it wasn’t the proper time for it. Sakura’s character wasn’t where she needed to be in order to realize her own feelings. She needed that second encounter with Sasuke to shake her view of him, and the words of an outsider with no knowledge of the Team 7 love triangle to get her thinking differently about her feelings for Sasuke.

540 makes more sense as the catalyst to consciously being the change of Sakura’s feelings for Sasuke, rather than a pointless (and rather ludicrous) reminder of her feelings for Sasuke still being there when we were reminded of it just last arc.

Will a love epiphany on Sakura’s part be cliché? Of course. But is it unsupported? No.

First of all, Naruto confessing is primarily about Naruto's character, and properly resolving his romantic feelings for her. If Hinata and Sakura got the chance to confess and directly express their feelings, logic dictates Naruto, as the main character, will get the same chance whether or not it leads to NS canonization.

Secondly, its not about being a hero at all, its about Sakura coming to realizations about herself and her feelings. Naruto confirming that he loves her (since she clearly doubts his romantic feelings for her at the summit) and why he loves her (since Sai gave no reasons), will only help Sakura's character (since again, she seems to be of the belief that she's not worthy of Naruto's love - hence her words in 459 that he's an idiot for loving her) in regards to her confidence issues and reinforce Yamato's words (that her caring for Naruto as much as she does is enough).

And honestly, with the amount of talk-no-jutsuing that goes on in this manga from Naruto, you're doubting his ability to change people's hearts and way of thinking with his words alone?

I'm not talking about the subjective merits of this happening, but its likelihood given what Kishi has shown us in his manga thus far.

Her feelings for Sasuke are far from immutable. She was willing to drop the search for Sasuke after VOTE in part one after Naruto first failed to bring him back, and gave up on his redemption at the summit as well. She's encountered Sasuke twice in the three to four years after her confession, and the second encounter is enough to get her reflecting unhappily on her romantic feelings for him.

She's been clinging onto a memory of Sasuke for all these years, even after the first encounter. Of course she's going to have difficulty reconciling the Sasuke she knew, the image of him she's built up in her head, to the vastly different one she's hearing about from Karui. Hearing about the things Sasuke has done is one thing, but seeing for yourself in person is another thing entirely.

When hearing that the rookies had decided Sasuke needed to die, who was the only person we saw her focusing on? Naruto, and his emotional pain - not Sasuke and his impending death. We know from the summit she eventually thought about it, but Naruto was clearly her priority. I think that's pretty telling in regards to the respective strength of her feelings for the boys.

She is the only one out of the four players in the romance subplot to have a current negative view of her love interest, so logically, if anyone is going to change their feelings at this point in the manga, she seems to be in the best position for it (especially given that she is also the only one to show anything beyond friendship for the person who has unrequited feelings for her).

No one is bragging here. You think the reasoning for NaruSaku canon is weak. You are entitled to you own opinion, but in the end, that's all it is - an opinion.

I'm not sure how can you say Sakura's standards are high at all - she's in love with Sasuke, someone who she thought hated her and never talked to her by the end of part one, who has tried to kill her multiple times, and who she has recently acknowledged as not a great guy, as someone she is ashamed to have feelings for. This is a girl with some serious self confidence issues when it comes to romance, and that shows in her feelings with Naruto as well.

Again, look at her reaction in 458 and 459 - she thinks Naruto is an idiot for loving her (indicating she doesn't feel like she's someone who deserves his love), and that she's caused him the most pain. This is reinforcing her words in 297, where she clearly feels that she doesn't do enough for Naruto. At the summit, she even asks Naruto after his reaction - "If you don't like me, then just say so!", indicating that she probably doesn't even believe he's still in love with her - not because of his actions towards her necessarily, but because of her own lack of self worth in this particular regard.

Man...this post i just full of so much win!

13080302030649702.gif~                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ナル~サク 4/3 The day he fell in love with her ♥ 豪傑 そて 婦 hero, great man and heroine, brave woman°°°★Official Top Ten overall NARUTO characters: 1. Kakashi 2.Naruto 3.Sasuke 4.Iruka 5.Shikamaru 6.Gaara 7.Sakura 8.Neji 9.Itachi 10.Lee★°°° <p>Best ofナル~サク


#6746 Chatte

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 09:37 AM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ Dec 17 2012, 05:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
@Chatte
I agree that after NaruSaku the most symbolic pairing would be SasuKarin. I skimmed over the manifesto and from what I took it really explains the differences between how Karin interacts with Sasuke in comparison to how Sakura has. One of the reasons I see Karin as better for Sasuke is that she's able to keep up with him emotionally, that's to say that if she gets angry with him she'll not be shy of expressing her irritation no matter how much she likes him.

When it comes to having disagreements with Sasuke while Sakura always puts on a sad face, Karin doesn't care about getting angry at him. The most fun example will always be how she called him a weakling after he near got killed by Deidara's explosion. With that scene alone you can tell how much better Karin is at interacting with Sasuke than Sakura is. Even if Sasuke's and Sakura's relationship is restored I don't think she'll ever be able to talk to him in the same bossy manner Karin does.

In a way it does make sense from a storytelling point of view to have NaruSaku and SasuKarin.

From Part 2 onwards it's all about Naruto's and Sasuke's individual journeys.
While Sakura has been witness of Naruto's rise, Karin has been witness to Sasuke's fall.
While Sakura belongs in Naruto's journey of light, Karin belongs to Sasuke's journey of darkness.

Even during the Summit arc it seems that both girls came in conflict with their respective boys:
While Sakura got Naruto's rejection of her confession, Karin got Sasuke's betrayal of her trust.

Both sides still have issues unresolved, but I think that as the story progresses things might change. And that resolution might lead to them getting closer to each other.


This this and so much of this!
I wish sometimes I'd be more ... how should I say it? Able to put down in words what I get in feelings. Heh.
This is worth a post on Tumblr, love the way you put it. biggrin.gif

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#6747 PhenixElite

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 09:37 AM

QUOTE (Chatte @ Dec 17 2012, 06:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, to be honest I am ok with SasuKarin... I wouldn't blame her. It would be like blaming Naruto as well... I mean, hell, he tried to kill even Naruto.
Dunno, that's my view.
Anyway... Trink!
Didn't Rin healed Kakashi's shoulder back in the days? biggrin.gif
Now that Naruto dislocated his shoulder... rolleyes.gif
I see something coming.... rolleyes.gif

Do you maybe know the chapter? Would be very intresting if thats the truth.

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#6748 Chatte

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:02 AM

QUOTE (PhenixElite @ Dec 17 2012, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do you maybe know the chapter? Would be very intresting if thats the truth.


Chapter 240&241. biggrin.gif
The exact shoulder Naruto dislocated.
Kishi, Kishi, I see what you did there... heheelq7.png

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#6749 PhenixElite

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:12 AM

QUOTE (Chatte @ Dec 17 2012, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Chapter 240&241. biggrin.gif
The exact shoulder Naruto dislocated.
Kishi, Kishi, I see what you did there... heheelq7.png

Thats very intresting. This could be the trigger for obitos realization, that sakura is narutos rin.
Something like naruto dislocating his shoulder doesnt seem like coincidence.

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#6750 Chatte

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:19 AM

QUOTE (PhenixElite @ Dec 17 2012, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thats very intresting. This could be the trigger for obitos realization, that sakura is narutos rin.
Something like naruto dislocating his shoulder doesnt seem like coincidence.


Totally not! I mean, it seems like nothing important as a detail considering what's going on and at what scale... STILL, we know that Kishi's veeeeery subtle when it comes to those two... heheelq7.png

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#6751 Canadian_DJ

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    My hobbies are drawing, and reading awesome facts about anything I love! Oh and how could I forget, I love playing on my PS3, my favourite online game is Team Fortress 2, favourite character to play with is the scout! (Although I love all of 'em).
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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:25 AM

QUOTE (Chatte @ Dec 17 2012, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Totally not! I mean, it seems like nothing important as a detail considering what's going on and at what scale... STILL, we know that Kishi's veeeeery subtle when it comes to those two... heheelq7.png

Lol those two are inevitable when it comes down to loovee fu.png

13080302030649702.gif~                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ナル~サク 4/3 The day he fell in love with her ♥ 豪傑 そて 婦 hero, great man and heroine, brave woman°°°★Official Top Ten overall NARUTO characters: 1. Kakashi 2.Naruto 3.Sasuke 4.Iruka 5.Shikamaru 6.Gaara 7.Sakura 8.Neji 9.Itachi 10.Lee★°°° <p>Best ofナル~サク


#6752 PhenixElite

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:50 AM

QUOTE (Chatte @ Dec 17 2012, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Totally not! I mean, it seems like nothing important as a detail considering what's going on and at what scale... STILL, we know that Kishi's veeeeery subtle when it comes to those two... heheelq7.png

Ok this could be a very big hint. If something like this is really going to happen in one of the upcoming chapters, then 10 points for you. biggrin.gif

Something like that happening seems pretty obvious now.

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#6753 luffyq1

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:54 AM

This is the terrible yet funny writing that I find in the romance subplot of this manga. Naruto clearly meets all the requirements for Sakura to fall head over heels in love with Naruto. Let's recap these shallow feelings, shall we?

1) Good looking? Sure. That much was evident in 245.

2) Easily impressed by skills? Checked. That was evident in 246. And that wasn't the only instance either.

3) Cool? Best believe dat! Man saved the damn village. He's a hero as Sakura pointed out in her semi false confession.

So why on Gods green earth hasn't she fallen for the guy? And don't give me that same BS about keeping the tension high. It's that very tension that is degrading her character as we speak. She still loves Sasuke for the pathetic reasons that I've listed.

If Kishi is going to give Sakura such incredibly, weak shallow feelings as the basis for her love, then keep that damn crap consistent, will ya? Why not have any good looking, strong, and cool ninja turn right around the corner and have her automatically fallen in love with them?

Well bad writing or not, I'm still able to put up with it because I find it highly amusing.

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#6754 Chucky-kun

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:05 AM

QUOTE (luffyq1 @ Dec 17 2012, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is the terrible yet funny writing that I find in the romance subplot of this manga. Naruto clearly meets all the requirements for Sakura to fall head over heels in love with Naruto. Let's recap these shallow feelings, shall we?

1) Good looking? Sure. That much was evident in 245.

2) Easily impressed by skills? Checked. That was evident in 246. And that wasn't the only instance either.

3) Cool? Best believe dat! Man saved the damn village. He's a hero as Sakura pointed out in her semi false confession.

So why on Gods green earth hasn't she fallen for the guy? And don't give me that same BS about keeping the tension high. It's that very tension that is degrading her character as we speak. She still loves Sasuke for the pathetic reasons that I've listed.

If Kishi is going to give Sakura such incredibly, weak shallow feelings as the basis for her love, then keep that damn crap consistent, will ya? Why not have any good looking, strong, and cool ninja turn right around the corner and have her automatically fallen in love with them?

Well bad writing or not, I'm still able to put up with it because I find it highly amusing.

Have you read the manifesto?

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#6755 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:06 AM

What's the topic that is being discussed?
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#6756 luffyq1

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:07 AM

QUOTE (Chucky-kun @ Dec 17 2012, 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Have you read the manifesto?


Yeah, and?

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#6757 PhenixElite

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:10 AM

QUOTE (luffyq1 @ Dec 17 2012, 11:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is the terrible yet funny writing that I find in the romance subplot of this manga. Naruto clearly meets all the requirements for Sakura to fall head over heels in love with Naruto. Let's recap these shallow feelings, shall we?

1) Good looking? Sure. That much was evident in 245.

2) Easily impressed by skills? Checked. That was evident in 246. And that wasn't the only instance either.

3) Cool? Best believe dat! Man saved the damn village. He's a hero as Sakura pointed out in her semi false confession.

So why on Gods green earth hasn't she fallen for the guy? And don't give me that same BS about keeping the tension high. It's that very tension that is degrading her character as we speak. She still loves Sasuke for the pathetic reasons that I've listed.

If Kishi is going to give Sakura such incredibly, weak shallow feelings as the basis for her love, then keep that damn crap consistent, will ya? Why not have any good looking, strong, and cool ninja turn right around the corner and have her automatically fallen in love with them?

Well bad writing or not, I'm still able to put up with it because I find it highly amusing.

What would be the reason for kishi to show sakura already together with naruto? You dont show pairings as canon durin the manga. It would have only caused problems during the war and for future events. Theres just no reason for kishi to resolve the love triangle by now. This is something thats has to wait till the final chapters of a manga.

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#6758 Chatte

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:10 AM

QUOTE (luffyq1 @ Dec 17 2012, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is the terrible yet funny writing that I find in the romance subplot of this manga. Naruto clearly meets all the requirements for Sakura to fall head over heels in love with Naruto. Let's recap these shallow feelings, shall we?

1) Good looking? Sure. That much was evident in 245.

2) Easily impressed by skills? Checked. That was evident in 246. And that wasn't the only instance either.

3) Cool? Best believe dat! Man saved the damn village. He's a hero as Sakura pointed out in her semi false confession.

So why on Gods green earth hasn't she fallen for the guy? And don't give me that same BS about keeping the tension high. It's that very tension that is degrading her character as we speak. She still loves Sasuke for the pathetic reasons that I've listed.

If Kishi is going to give Sakura such incredibly, weak shallow feelings as the basis for her love, then keep that damn crap consistent, will ya? Why not have any good looking, strong, and cool ninja turn right around the corner and have her automatically fallen in love with them?

Well bad writing or not, I'm still able to put up with it because I find it highly amusing.


Even if you consider it bullsh**, it's a necessary one to keep the fans still going.
And you can't say she hasn't fallen for him, sorry. There are indications all throughout the manga.
And being in love with 2 men at a time is nothing but real deal.
So let's just wait and see what it happens.

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#6759 Chucky-kun

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:13 AM

QUOTE (luffyq1 @ Dec 17 2012, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, and?

Why are you still asking questions?

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#6760 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:16 AM

I dont think SasuKarin will be canon, romance does not fit sasuke and like i said before only NS will be canon and the rest will be leave to interpretation.
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