19964 replies to this topic

[Chatte]

same here, NS has so many development and so many non- platonic hints that came a time when I could no longer ignore this pairing anymore!

Can you link me with the Nostradamus's analyze and the Manifesto?? I never read them!!

The manifesto: http://ship-manifest...com/156175.html by heronite (how was she called here? can't remember the username, heh) is also here on H&E
And Nostradamus's analyze: http://chatte-georgi...e-wise-narusaku

Unfortunately, the manifesto is done up to chapter 300 + something like that. It's not up to date, however, Nostradamus's one is.

Enjoy the reading.

[Qia]

The manifesto: http://ship-manifest...com/156175.html by heronite (how was she called here? can't remember the username, heh) is also here on H&E
And Nostradamus's analyze: http://chatte-georgi...e-wise-narusaku

Unfortunately, the manifesto is done up to chapter 300 + something like that. It's not up to date, however, Nostradamus's one is.

Enjoy the reading.

Ever since I read the SasuKarin manifesto, I started shipping them so hard. Hopefully it's the same for others, because it really is beautiful and very much different from SS

[CloudMountainJuror]

*sigh* I'm not going to bother with a SasuKarin manifesto. Why? Because it'll destroy Karin's character if SasuKarin happens. Sasuke nearly killed her with no remorse, and that's a ship that has support? Might as well ship SasuSaku while you're at it.

I care about Karin's character. That's why I think SK is awful. And, really, no argument anyone has can detract that. Sorry, just not a fan of characters getting destroyed for the sake of romance.

If Karin forgives Sasuke, then Kishi will have wrecked her. Simple as that.

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 17 December 2012 - 01:56 AM.

[Qia]

*sigh* I'm not going to bother with a SasuKarin manifesto. Why? Because it'll destroy Karin's character if SasuKarin happens. Sasuke nearly killed her with no remorse, and that's a ship that has support? Might as well ship SasuSaku while you're at it.

I care about Karin's character. That's why I think SK is awful. And, really, no argument anyone has can detract that. Sorry, just not a fan of characters getting destroyed for the sake of romance.

If Karin forgives Sasuke, then Kishi will have wrecked her. Simple as that.

But the manifesto explains that part so well. At least read that part >.<.

[CloudMountainJuror]

But the manifesto explains that part so well. At least read that part >.<.

Read it. Not impressed. Sure, he might have cared before doing that. I'm not arguing that he didn't. But during or afterwards? Pft. His aim may not have been to kill her, but he damn well near did while he knowingly took the action against her.

The question was whether he was willing to sacrifice her or not. He was, and that's that. Even the writer of the manifesto doesn't argue this; he instead dodges it completely while trying to justify it by saying "he's not the same Sasuke". Yeah, and Sakura isn't the same that she was back in Part 1. Does that mean that we should ignore her actions since then, as they weren't "the same Sakura"? Sounds, dumb, doesn't it? It's the same thing, only the positions were switched. Sakura got better. Sasuke got worse.

Sasuke chose the path he's on. He made the choice to kill Karin for vengeance's sake. That's enough to make this ship downright insulting to Karin's character if she forgives him.

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 17 December 2012 - 02:15 AM.

[kidNinja]

What are the odds we see a jealous Sakura outside of fillers? (I don't really count the scene of her finding out about Hinata's feelings for Naruto as jealousy. More so, discomfort imo)

[Zatheko]

*sigh* I'm not going to bother with a SasuKarin manifesto. Why? Because it'll destroy Karin's character if SasuKarin happens. Sasuke nearly killed her with no remorse, and that's a ship that has support? Might as well ship SasuSaku while you're at it.

I care about Karin's character. That's why I think SK is awful. And, really, no argument anyone has can detract that. Sorry, just not a fan of characters getting destroyed for the sake of romance.

If Karin forgives Sasuke, then Kishi will have wrecked her. Simple as that.

But the manifesto explains that part so well. At least read that part >.<.

I agree with Qia I just finished reading the manifesto and it does a great job in explaining that part, you should definitely give it a read before judging it.

@chatte thanks for the manifesto link btw loved reading it

EDIT: Nvm somehow I skipped over your second post zac and you did read it, ignore what i said

Edited by zatheko, 17 December 2012 - 03:17 AM.

[{Jade~Rabbit}]

SasuKarin isn't bad but I can't truly see them happening. Idk, despite reading the manifesto I'm still not for it. Sasuke's so off that I can't even imagine the two working. I like Sasuke and all but when it comes to shipping him off with girls, I'm hesitant. He's crazy imo.

No offense to those who like it. I just don't REALLY know how I feel about the two.

[Zatheko]

SasuKarin isn't bad but I can't truly see them happening. Idk, despite reading the manifesto I'm still not for it. Sasuke's so off that I can't even imagine the two working. I like Sasuke and all but when it comes to shipping him off with girls, I'm hesitant. He's crazy imo.

No offense to those who like it. I just don't REALLY know how I feel about the two.

It's not so much the idea of sasuke and karin that interests me it's more of the idea of an uchiha and an uzumaki.

[CloudMountainJuror]

I agree with Qia I just finished reading the manifesto and it does a great job in explaining that part, you should definitely give it a read before judging it.

@chatte thanks for the manifesto link btw loved reading it

EDIT: Nvm somehow I skipped over your second post zac and you did read it, ignore what i said

I was gonna say, I read it as requested to. I can respect the amount of dedication they had to write all of that, but...yeah, I disagree for the reasons I listed.

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 17 December 2012 - 04:30 AM.

[Chucky-kun]

The manifesto: http://ship-manifest...com/156175.html by heronite (how was she called here? can't remember the username, heh) is also here on H&E
And Nostradamus's analyze: http://chatte-georgi...e-wise-narusaku

Unfortunately, the manifesto is done up to chapter 300 + something like that. It's not up to date, however, Nostradamus's one is.

Enjoy the reading.

Is Nostradamus' middle name logic or something?

[Chatte]

Is Nostradamus' middle name logic or something?

Hahah, dunno, but it's the most accurate thing I've ever read.

[AzureWaters]

How anyone can be offended by SasuSaku and not SasuKari is beyond me. The pairings are extremely similar, with not much difference besides the personality traits of Sakura and Karin. Concerning Sasuke, their dilemma is the same- and he hasn't acted much different for either girl.

[CloudMountainJuror]

It's not so much the idea of sasuke and karin that interests me it's more of the idea of an uchiha and an uzumaki.

Aaaahhh, and there's the rub. You'd think that it'd be a nice little symbolic thing, a display of unification between Uchiha and Uzumaki, right?

I'll point out the problem with this line of thinking by bringing up an example of another type of one of these symbolic pairings. Faramir and Eowyn from Lord of the Rings (the extended versions of the movies, at least). This nice little pairing was thrown in near the end of Return of the King and it worked in showing how mankind's two most prominent kingdoms (Gondor and Rohan = Faramir and Eowyn) were reunited after years of conflict and mistrust, really giving the message that peace was finally back in the world as Aragorn took the throne of Gondor. This pairing wasn't necessary at all, but it added to the story in a nice way because the characters had no bad blood between them and had us thinking "hey, why not?".

SasuKarin seems to be like that pairing, but it really isn't. Why? Because Sasuke nearly murdered Karin. Faramir and Eowyn worked, to the audience, because we were able to buy it and it only progressed the two characters' development. There was no former relationship-killing (pun intended) conflict between them. SasuKarin. however, would only degrade one of its pairing members. There is an event that happened that got in the way. Now, SK can't just be a nice little add-on like Faramir and Eowyn was. It will only cause damage to the writer's credibility because Karin would be entering a relationship with a psychotic obsessive like Sasuke after he tried to kill her. If she gets with him or even forgives him, then she'll truly just be what we used to think she was: Fangirl Sakura.

If Faramir tried to kill Eowyn while he knew her well and knew full well what he was doing, I'd have raged like crazy. But he didn't. The characters didn't even meet until Return of the King, and even then their personalities seemed to blend well together (therein also lies my problem with SasuHina, but that's another story). This is why SasuKarin can't work as a metaphorical union either. It either asks for too much suspension of disbelief, or just flat out destroys Karin's uniqueness.

[Chatte]

Well, to be honest I am ok with SasuKarin... I wouldn't blame her. It would be like blaming Naruto as well... I mean, hell, he tried to kill even Naruto.
Dunno, that's my view.
Anyway... Trink!
Didn't Rin healed Kakashi's shoulder back in the days?
Now that Naruto dislocated his shoulder...
I see something coming....

[redragon88]

Ok seriously, why is the fact that Sasuke tried to kill whichever girl the reason used to disapprove of a pairing? What's most important is how the character interactions are handled even if that happens.

If Sasuke never tried to kill Sakura would it look any better if he got together with her at the end? I don't think so, because even without the murder attempt the way they have developed would make for a very poor conclusion to their love story. But I guess that's up to each ones opinion.

Honest question: If Sasuke never tried to kill Sakura or Karin, would you ship him with any of the girls? If the answer is yes then maybe you could try to give it some thought.

Is it fine to dislike Sakura's and Karin's romantic love for Sasuke solely on the fact that Sasuke attacked them, but when it comes to Naruto's brotherly love it's acceptable to support it? I'm bringing it up because people tend to forget that during the Naruto vs Sasuke fight Sasuke pierced Naruto mid fight. If it wasn't for Kurama's presence Naruto would've died. Look:



Is supporting Naruto's love of Sasuke alright because it's not romantic? I'll be honest, I just don't see the reason to use the "he tried to kill them" excuse to disapprove of character relationships. Besides, if I start saying that Sakura shouldn't be with Sasuke because he tried to kill her I feel like that would be saying that if Sasuke was some prince charming then Naruto would've never had a chance of winning over Sakura's heart.

I would like to think that when Sakura truly falls in love with Naruto it won't be because Sasuke is doing evil things, it should be based solely on Naruto's merit. Sasuke's faults shouldn't even be mentioned.

[Chatte]

Ok seriously, why is the fact that Sasuke tried to kill whichever girl the reason used to disapprove of a pairing? What's most important is how the character interactions are handled even if that happens.

If Sasuke never tried to kill Sakura would it look any better if he got together with her at the end? I don't think so, because even without the murder attempt the way they have developed would make for a very poor conclusion to their love story. But I guess that's up to each ones opinion.

Honest question: If Sasuke never tried to kill Sakura or Karin, would you ship him with any of the girls? If the answer is yes then maybe you could try to give it some thought.

Is it fine to dislike Sakura's and Karin's romantic love for Sasuke solely on the fact that Sasuke attacked them, but when it comes to Naruto's brotherly love it's acceptable to support it? I'm bringing it up because people tend to forget that during the Naruto vs Sasuke fight Sasuke pierced Naruto mid fight. If it wasn't for Kurama's presence Naruto would've died. Look:



Is supporting Naruto's love of Sasuke alright because it's not romantic? I'll be honest, I just don't see the reason to use the "he tried to kill them" excuse to disapprove of character relationships. Besides, if I start saying that Sakura shouldn't be with Sasuke because he tried to kill her I feel like that would be saying that if Sasuke was some prince charming then Naruto would've never had a chance of winning over Sakura's heart.

I would like to think that when Sakura truly falls in love with Naruto it won't be because Sasuke is doing evil things, it should be based solely on Naruto's merit. Sasuke's faults shouldn't even be mentioned.

Heh, you said it better than I would.
I was thinking at the exact same thing.
In the end, Sasuke represents darkness... it's his character.
But that doesn't mean he'll not change and have the chance to be with someone.
That;s why I see him with Karin more than anyone else...

[CloudMountainJuror]

Ok seriously, why is the fact that Sasuke tried to kill whichever girl the reason used to disapprove of a pairing? What's most important is how the character interactions are handled even if that happens.

If Sasuke never tried to kill Sakura would it look any better if he got together with her at the end? I don't think so, because even without the murder attempt the way they have developed would make for a very poor conclusion to their love story. But I guess that's up to each ones opinion.

Honest question: If Sasuke never tried to kill Sakura or Karin, would you ship him with any of the girls? If the answer is yes then maybe you could try to give it some thought.

Is it fine to dislike Sakura's and Karin's romantic love for Sasuke solely on the fact that Sasuke attacked them, but when it comes to Naruto's brotherly love it's acceptable to support it? I'm bringing it up because people tend to forget that during the Naruto vs Sasuke fight Sasuke pierced Naruto mid fight. If it wasn't for Kurama's presence Naruto would've died. Look:



Is supporting Naruto's love of Sasuke alright because it's not romantic? I'll be honest, I just don't see the reason to use the "he tried to kill them" excuse to disapprove of character relationships. Besides, if I start saying that Sakura shouldn't be with Sasuke because he tried to kill her I feel like that would be saying that if Sasuke was some prince charming then Naruto would've never had a chance of winning over Sakura's heart.

I would like to think that when Sakura truly falls in love with Naruto it won't be because Sasuke is doing evil things, it should be based solely on Naruto's merit. Sasuke's faults shouldn't even be mentioned.

So you're implying that someone trying to kill someone with no remorse isn't enough reason to dismiss romantic intentions with them?

There's obviously no point in arguing anymore. I'm sorry if I sound like an a**hole by saying that but... really. We two are never going to see eye to eye if that's how you think.

And, yes, as far as I'm concerned Naruto should have left Sasuke alone and cut all ties with him as soon as Sasuke fought him about it. Sasuke has been the reason that Naruto's maturity growth has been limited.

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 17 December 2012 - 05:50 AM.

[redragon88]

@Chatte
I agree that after NaruSaku the most symbolic pairing would be SasuKarin. I skimmed over the manifesto and from what I took it really explains the differences between how Karin interacts with Sasuke in comparison to how Sakura has. One of the reasons I see Karin as better for Sasuke is that she's able to keep up with him emotionally, that's to say that if she gets angry with him she'll not be shy of expressing her irritation no matter how much she likes him.

When it comes to having disagreements with Sasuke while Sakura always puts on a sad face, Karin doesn't care about getting angry at him. The most fun example will always be how she called him a weakling after he near got killed by Deidara's explosion. With that scene alone you can tell how much better Karin is at interacting with Sasuke than Sakura is. Even if Sasuke's and Sakura's relationship is restored I don't think she'll ever be able to talk to him in the same bossy manner Karin does.

In a way it does make sense from a storytelling point of view to have NaruSaku and SasuKarin.

From Part 2 onwards it's all about Naruto's and Sasuke's individual journeys.
While Sakura has been witness of Naruto's rise, Karin has been witness to Sasuke's fall.
While Sakura belongs in Naruto's journey of light, Karin belongs to Sasuke's journey of darkness.

Even during the Summit arc it seems that both girls came in conflict with their respective boys:
While Sakura got Naruto's rejection of her confession, Karin got Sasuke's betrayal of her trust.

Both sides still have issues unresolved, but I think that as the story progresses things might change. And that resolution might lead to them getting closer to each other.

[Chucky-kun]

@Chatte
I agree that after NaruSaku the most symbolic pairing would be SasuKarin. I skimmed over the manifesto and from what I took it really explains the differences between how Karin interacts with Sasuke in comparison to how Sakura has. One of the reasons I see Karin as better for Sasuke is that she's able to keep up with him emotionally, that's to say that if she gets angry with him she'll not be shy of expressing her irritation no matter how much she likes him.

When it comes to having disagreements with Sasuke while Sakura always puts on a sad face, Karin doesn't care about getting angry at him. The most fun example will always be how she called him a weakling after he near got killed by Deidara's explosion. With that scene alone you can tell how much better Karin is at interacting with Sasuke than Sakura is. Even if Sasuke's and Sakura's relationship is restored I don't think she'll ever be able to talk to him in the same bossy manner Karin does.

In a way it does make sense from a storytelling point of view to have NaruSaku and SasuKarin.

From Part 2 onwards it's all about Naruto's and Sasuke's individual journeys.
While Sakura has been witness of Naruto's rise, Karin has been witness to Sasuke's fall.
While Sakura belongs in Naruto's journey of light, Karin belongs to Sasuke's journey of darkness.

Even during the Summit arc it seems that both girls came in conflict with their respective boys:
While Sakura got Naruto's rejection of her confession, Karin got Sasuke's betrayal of her trust.

Both sides still have issues unresolved, but I think that as the story progresses things might change. And that resolution might lead to them getting closer to each other.

Kishi and his bloody parallels lol. (pun intended)