9679 replies to this topic

[Phantom_999]

Thank you!


Yeah, basically it seems to be a parallel. As far as her suddenly confessing like that, it's sort of Kishi's style with desperate confessions, isn't it? It reminds me a lot of Hinata's confession. You know, final moments, we might be dead soon, I need to get this off my chest... I'd say the aftermath might have been more telling, but we don't ever see Rin again so it's hard to say how that moment changed her. We know it really changed Kakashi, at least.

Eh, Kishi simply cares more about the brother bonds and unrequited love than fleshing out the female characters...at least most of the time. XD

I don't get a hug? (jk, but still) Anyways it WAS confirmed in the manga Rin is dead. Kakashi stated before his "temporary death" he failed to protect Her, one of his biggest regrets along with losing his teacher Minato, and Obito, and some other stuff.

[Miss Soupy]

Is that good for NS though? The whole Obito/Rin/Kakashi thing confuses me, since Rin seemed a bit cold when it came to desperately confessing her love for Kakashi right after Obitos death.
I worry it'll be similar for Naruto/Sakura/Sasuke. Naruto being the selfless love type of guy, Sakura still caring about Sasuke no matter even if Naruto dies, although I still doubt it. I mean Sasukes evil and she seems ashamed of her feelings if anything. I can see the parallel if Sasuke was the one to die and Naruto saying that Sakura loved him, then Sakura going right out and saying she loves Naruto.

It's good for NS as long as Kishi intends Naruto to be the nice guy that gets the girl he loves. That, I think, is the main point being made by having such a parallel. It would make the most sense to show these very similar past romantic interests that never came to be in comparison to Naruto who struggles just as much, but will be the one to change the pattern. So yeah, I think it's good for NS. As far as Rin being cold, she might have expected that they were all going to die. But who knows. Kishi obviously thought it was a fine moment to confess XD;; so he put it in there. *shrugs*

I don't get a hug? (jk, but still) Anyways it WAS confirmed in the manga Rin is dead. Kakashi stated before his "temporary death" he failed to protect Her, one of his biggest regrets along with losing his teacher Minato, and Obito, and some other stuff.

You can have a hug too XDD

[FoolishYoungling]

I don't get a hug? (jk, but still) Anyways it WAS confirmed in the manga Rin is dead. Kakashi stated before his "temporary death" he failed to protect Her, one of his biggest regrets along with losing his teacher Minato, and Obito, and some other stuff.

How did she die tho? You would think Kishi would tell us..

[Darth Krypt]

How did she die tho? You would think Kishi would tell us..

Rin's death isn't important to the story so it doesn't matter if we don't know how. Just knowing that she died and it affected Kakashi because he wasn't able to protect her is enough. Unless of course there would be another Kakashi flashback during his "rampage". Maybe she was killed by the Kyubi 16 years ago and that made Kakashi hated Naruto. It made it worse when he was assigned to be his mentor but we all know it all has changed. Thus, development was shown. Just a random theory though.

[Phantom_999]

You can have a hug too XDD

Okay Thank You! Anyways yeah Kakashi hinted Rin died but anyways point is their team mimicks team 7 a little only difference is that Obito died before he got a chance with her and so did Jiraiya. But Naruto CAN have that chance

[redkunai66]

Hmmmm, maybe, but even though this is not really part of the main story, maybe Kakashi would have one of those realizations on where his life is going and whatnot, that maybe he does want to start a family?

heh- that'd be pretty cool- but it just doesn't seem like him to me- maybe its because Kakashi has taken a laid back kind of stance everyday- i feel like he's a creature of that kind of habit. He's had time to move on from rin and obito- to try to start a new life- but we haven't ever seen him try. who knows- maybe naruto can talk-no-jutsue him about it and he'll give some thought to the matter

I will say though, that Obito's feelings for Rin were definitely portrayed in a very selfless manner. However,I'm not sure if they would've ended up together because of that. I mean, right after Kakashi tells Rin that Obito loved her, she attempts to confess her own feelings to Kakashi. I don't know, that just seemed low to me. Maybe it's just the heat of the moment, or just the fact that Rin didn't have a lot of time to dwell on Obito's feelings for her, but I'd think finding out that her comrade, who just sacrificed his life for her, was actually in love with her would somewhat undermine Rin's feelings for Kakashi. Though I suppose Rin was such a minor character, maybe it's just hard for me to empathize with her in that scenario.

But again, I don't think the character parallel was meant to be foreshadowing. Even if I'm wrong about that, though, we still have other parallels helping out our pairing in Mina/Kushi and Jira/Tsu.

It's good for NS as long as Kishi intends Naruto to be the nice guy that gets the girl he loves. That, I think, is the main point being made by having such a parallel. It would make the most sense to show these very similar past romantic interests that never came to be in comparison to Naruto who struggles just as much, but will be the one to change the pattern. So yeah, I think it's good for NS. As far as Rin being cold, she might have expected that they were all going to die. But who knows. Kishi obviously thought it was a fine moment to confess XD;; so he put it in there. *shrugs*


You can have a hug too XDD

This is a TL:DR kinda thing- skip it if you don't fancy rumination
hnn- maybe its just me- but about your points by you guys- i get a feeling this might be the reason that so many people don't like NS (asides from the shipping angle). On one side there are the fans who feel NS occuring would make Sakura into a trophy wife. On the other side- perhaps there are people who feel like its not fair that naruto has to struggle to earn Sakura's affections. Perhaps what they see in NS is how doomed and tragic obito/rin is. There's something i remeber in that a speaker on psychology at High school once said, For people, every one negative comment directed at them, needs 10 other positive comments about them to balance out the emotional stress. Do you guys think that all those people who hate NS- remeber tragedies like how Jir/Tsu and Rin/obito ended, much more clearly than they see the happiness naruto and Sakura find in everyday things with each other?
maybe i'm just thinking too deeply- but perhaps this is the mistake kishi made in trying to promote NS- is it because of the similar characters with similar romantic situations in the past had met untimely ends? that some readers can only remeber that v.s. the themes and ideals of the story- that Naruto's end with Sakura would be different?

Because sometimes i get the feeling that reading the themes and ideas- Oh naruto is amazing- he can do anything- he'll defy the problems that plague the past! Themes like these are all over the place in shonen manga- to the point that the theme itself can get on readers nerves.
Its kinda like your parents lecturing you about why you shouldn't do drugs- i mean yes its important but to hear the same message again and again from school and classmates- till you just shut off your brain when someone lectures about it again.

Maybe thats why a lot of naruto fans' just don't have any positive feelings towards NS- they've shut off their brains to the message the author is trying to tell you- and sticking instead to the one that they got initially- believing it as more correct.

i don't know- bigotry is a strange beast- it just seems to rear its head a lot when it comes to shipping.

Unless Kishi decides to make Hanare canon, well, that's another story.

who's Hanare? sorry i don't know this couple >.<


sorry in advance if i'm going off topic

[Anguyen92]

Its kinda like your parents lecturing you about why you shouldn't do drugs- i mean yes its important but to hear the same message again and again from school and classmates- till you just shut off your brain when someone lectures about it again.

I hate those kinds of message as well. If the people, whom is suppose to be my so-called supporters and will back me up 100% of the way, ever thinks that I would pull something like drugs especially when they know what I have planned requires a very clear mind, then I guess I have no supporters then.

I guess the lesson here is that you can take a tactic and pound it as long as you want, but eventually, the tactic or approach will bite you in a way where no one gets a good end of it. Which means another lesson here is "Don't fix, what's not broken" and make certain changes when certain things take a swing.

Hmmmm, well that's it for the off-topic, but now on to the topic. So the whole Obito/Rin/Kakashi thing huh? Well, Obito really liked Rin but couldn't pull the deal. Jiraya liked Tsunade but was close but never on the deal. This should not happen with Naruto and Sakura, or otherwise, what's the whole put of building the friken pairings problem/comparisons in the first place then?

Edited by Anguyen92, 17 November 2011 - 05:19 AM.

[Fenris]

heh- that'd be pretty cool- but it just doesn't seem like him to me- maybe its because Kakashi has taken a laid back kind of stance everyday- i feel like he's a creature of that kind of habit. He's had time to move on from rin and obito- to try to start a new life- but we haven't ever seen him try. who knows- maybe naruto can talk-no-jutsue him about it and he'll give some thought to the matter






This is a TL:DR kinda thing- skip it if you don't fancy rumination
hnn- maybe its just me- but about your points by you guys- i get a feeling this might be the reason that so many people don't like NS (asides from the shipping angle). On one side there are the fans who feel NS occuring would make Sakura into a trophy wife. On the other side- perhaps there are people who feel like its not fair that naruto has to struggle to earn Sakura's affections. Perhaps what they see in NS is how doomed and tragic obito/rin is. There's something i remeber in that a speaker on psychology at High school once said, For people, every one negative comment directed at them, needs 10 other positive comments about them to balance out the emotional stress. Do you guys think that all those people who hate NS- remeber tragedies like how Jir/Tsu and Rin/obito ended, much more clearly than they see the happiness naruto and Sakura find in everyday things with each other?
maybe i'm just thinking too deeply- but perhaps this is the mistake kishi made in trying to promote NS- is it because of the similar characters with similar romantic situations in the past had met untimely ends? that some readers can only remeber that v.s. the themes and ideals of the story- that Naruto's end with Sakura would be different?

Because sometimes i get the feeling that reading the themes and ideas- Oh naruto is amazing- he can do anything- he'll defy the problems that plague the past! Themes like these are all over the place in shonen manga- to the point that the theme itself can get on readers nerves.
Its kinda like your parents lecturing you about why you shouldn't do drugs- i mean yes its important but to hear the same message again and again from school and classmates- till you just shut off your brain when someone lectures about it again.

Maybe thats why a lot of naruto fans' just don't have any positive feelings towards NS- they've shut off their brains to the message the author is trying to tell you- and sticking instead to the one that they got initially- believing it as more correct.

i don't know- bigotry is a strange beast- it just seems to rear its head a lot when it comes to shipping.




who's Hanare? sorry i don't know this couple >.<


sorry in advance if i'm going off topic

I completely agree. People look past Kishi's romantic subplot for NS, and go with their own beliefs no matter how hard the evidence of the subplot crams it down their throat. Although Naruto can and will do anything, I think it has a lot to do with the fact that, like you mentioned, it's been done before (main hero achieves his goals in life, etc.) Kishi has a very unique way of laying things out to make it original even if it is the same 'hero achieves everything' type of basis. Plus, I think it has a lot to do with stuborness among some of the younger fans that riot against NS, cause I have seen a lot of the mature SS/NH fans even say that NS will probably be the canon pairing. Nevertheless, though ,you are correct when it comes to hearing the same things over/over again. But no matter, NS has too much ground to stand on for it not to go in the direction Kishi is intending it to go through reading.

Edited by iamfenris, 17 November 2011 - 04:43 AM.

[ciardha]

Hmmmm, well that's it for the off-topic, but now on to the topic. So the whole Obito/Rin/Kakashi thing huh? Well, Obito really liked Rin but couldn't pull the deal. Jiraya liked Tsunade but was close but never on the deal. This should not happen with Naruto and Sakura, or otherwise, what's the whole put of building the friken pairings problem/comparisons in the first place then?

You are forgetting the most obvious parallel, Minato and Kushina. Kishimoto deliberately parallels Kushina's opinion of Minato in the Academy to Sakura's opinion of Naruto before they became team mates. He also deliberately strongly parallels Kushina's personality type to Sakura's. What is interesting is in manga canon (please shut out the anime distortion) has Sakura's opinion of Naruto begin to rise sharply (and develop a subconscious attraction) basically the moment they have their first team exercise- the first bell test. We also see Sakura doing what she thought was act to save Naruto's life, risking her own in chapter 5. Her first heroic act in the manga is directly for Naruto's sake. In fact, even in part 1, the majority of her heroic acts are connected in some way to Naruto, to protect him in some way, even emotionally... also showing a belief in him quite early on in part 1. Unlike those other couple examples, even Kushina, Sakura didn't need a heroic act to protect her to improve her opinion and begin her attraction to Naruto. It merely took stepping away the common opinion of Naruto in the Academy, seeing Naruto as he really was, to drastically improve her opinion and start a semiconscious attraction to Naruto way back in the early part of part 1. In the manga she's a bit confused by this attraction in chapter 13 (her first conscious realization she feels something beyond friendship toward Naruto) but unlike what shows up in many so called narusaku fanfics she is not horrified. The only time when we see her get angry about others assuming there's something between Naruto and Sakura even in part 1 is when Konohamaru uses the cruder version of the pinky sign- implying a sexual relationship between Naruto and Sakura. Something that Sakura was not even thinking of in relation to Naruto yet- something that changes dramatically by the time Naruto returns at the start of part 2. Sakura overtly flirts with Naruto- inviting him to look at her as a sexually attractive woman, then we have the really overt sexual flirtation in chapter 343, so overt that it even briefly breaks through Naruto's wall of denial he created when he made the POAL...

Edited by ciardha, 17 November 2011 - 06:40 AM.

[Anguyen92]

You are forgetting the most obvious parallel, Minato and Kushina.

Of course, I didn't mention Minato and Kushina but I thought it was too obvious. I was just mentioning of two other similar pairings where the male had deep feelings for their respective teammates and that they had near misses and what ifs, etc, due to dying for what they were fighting for. On how its not going to be the same deal for Naruto because he's going to do what the past generations couldn't do. But yeah, its nice of you to reiterate on certain events. Its good to reassure ourselves that we are indeed backing up the right horse, uhh, I mean pairing.

Edited by Anguyen92, 17 November 2011 - 06:42 AM.

[RedDelicious]

What is interesting is in manga canon (please shut out the anime distortion) has Sakura's opinion of Naruto begin to rise sharply (and develop a subconscious attraction) basically the moment they have their first team exercise- the first bell test.

It might even start in chapter 4. Inner Sakura's reaction to the eraser prank (both before and after) is pretty strong.

[Fenris]

Someone made this panel image of all SS moments and wanted to include more, what do you guys think of it? The moments the two shared? If it counts at all to even call it a moment. What's the one with Sasuke blushing?

click --Click here to view--

[Nostradamus]

Someone made this panel image of all SS moments and wanted to include more, what do you guys think of it? The moments the two shared? If it counts at all to even call it a moment. What's the one with Sasuke blushing?

click --Click here to view--

You mean the one in the bottom right corner is from chapter 19 where sasuke asks naruto what tip did sakura give him.

[Fenris]

You mean the one in the bottom right corner is from chapter 19 where sasuke asks naruto what tip did sakura give him.

So it wasn't nessacarily a SS moment? It was more of Sasuke ashamed of asking the "dobe/dead last" for help?

Edited by iamfenris, 18 November 2011 - 02:04 AM.

[Nostradamus]

So it wasn't nessacarily a SS moment? It was more of Sasuke ashamed of asking the "dobe/dead last" for help?

Yeap

[Super Boom]

Someone made this panel image of all SS moments and wanted to include more, what do you guys think of it? The moments the two shared? If it counts at all to even call it a moment. What's the one with Sasuke blushing?

click --Click here to view--

They did a good job, I guess, but I'm kind of surprised at how few 'moments' are in there. After watching Slextrem's N/S development video on this thread, seeing how few moments S/S has seems pretty reassuring for us.

So it wasn't nessacarily a SS moment? It was more of Sasuke ashamed of asking the "dobe/dead last" for help?

Yeah, he's just embarrassed having to ask for help. The person who made that is probably one of those fans who seem to think that blushing can only be used as a romantic hint. LOL, by that logic, Hinata must be in love with everything. Anyways, you can check T.V. Tropes if you want to read more.

TV Tropes to the rescue!

Edited by Boom...Winning, 18 November 2011 - 02:23 AM.

[Fenris]

Yeap

Ah good.
I nearly panicked >_>
The sheer thought of Sasuke ever blushing at Sakura is enough for me to go panicking.

Well, not really. NS has everything in the bag.

[Anguyen92]

Yeap

Hey Nostradamus, when you first joined here, you mentioned about a future post that might be compelling enough to end the pairings war. How is that coming along and when can we expect said post?

Edited by Anguyen92, 18 November 2011 - 02:30 AM.

[Fenris]

They did a good job, I guess, but I'm kind of surprised at how few 'moments' are in there. After watching Slextrem's N/S development video on this thread, seeing how few moments S/S has seems pretty reassuring for us.


Yeah, he's just embarrassed having to ask for help. The person who made that is probably one of those fans who seem to think that blushing can only be used as a romantic hint. LOL, by that logic, Hinata must be in love with everything. Anyways, you can check T.V. Tropes if you want to read more.

TV Tropes to the rescue!

Ah, Boom! You're a hero!

[Super Boom]

Hey Nostradamus, when you first joined here, you mentioned about a future post that might be compelling enough to end the pairings war. How is that coming along and when can we expect said post?

Oh yeah, I forgot about that!

@Nostradamus: I didn't dissuade you from posting by advising you not to swear did I? I'm not sure how much cursing your post would have, but I just thought you could make your point better if you avoided it altogether. Sorry if I played a part in your post's delay.

Ah, Boom! You're a hero!

All in a day's work, miss! *Flies away*