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H&E's NaruSaku Debate Thread!


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#6701 Chatte

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:56 PM

QUOTE (AzureWaters @ Dec 16 2012, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One thing I'm worried about is it seems like Kishi's only making her important for the pairing stuff. Her importance to the plot, nowadays, is almost all about who she'll end up with. So I don't really think bringing up Sasuke is offtopic for her character. Outside of Team 7 matters (which haven't been given that much spotlight recently) her relevance is pairings.

I love Sakura, but she's not getting what she deserves as the main female from this manga. In the Sasori days, she was an action girl. Not so much now. Maybe Kishi will change this soon, but from the way he's putting her in the background I'm in doubt.


Ah, this is so true... sad.gif

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#6702 {Jade~Rabbit}

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:00 PM

Sakura will shine in the war pretty soon, I'm sure of it. a_thumbs.gif SMILE EVERYBODY!!! a_comfort.gif

#6703 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

Time will tell for Sakura being a fighter or at least get involved on action. I hope she's not a pairing fodder. I may talk about her being with Naruto in terms of pairing, but no way I'm a fan of her for that reason alone. Hinata's character got tarnished in here for me. Too shoved in for my liking. Now, I want Sakura to do something very soon. Next chapter is the last one and it will leave a big cliffhanger. Time will tell.

#6704 PhenixElite

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:11 PM

QUOTE (AzureWaters @ Dec 16 2012, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One thing I'm worried about is it seems like Kishi's only making her important for the pairing stuff. Her importance to the plot, nowadays, is almost all about who she'll end up with. So I don't really think bringing up Sasuke is offtopic for her character. Outside of Team 7 matters (which haven't been given that much spotlight recently) her relevance is pairings.

I love Sakura, but she's not getting what she deserves as the main female from this manga. In the Sasori days, she was an action girl. Not so much now. Maybe Kishi will change this soon, but from the way he's putting her in the background I'm in doubt.

Well, thats true, but as i said in an earlier post: I dont think that its bad for her character to be important for pairing stuff. WHy do we need two charcters who act like heroes and defeat a lot of enemie? I think one is enough. I like sakuras role as love interest of the main charcter, because shes the one who makes out the whole lovestory(what is the most important for many in this forum).

Sakuras decision will imply a great love story into this manga, or a very, very, very, very BAD one.

I mean just imagine: Naruto(the main character) who never received love from anyone and was hated by the whole village when he was younger, starts to love a girl.(in an extremly selfless way)
In the end hes not getting the girl hes been in love the whole time and did everything for her because she ends up with a guy who always ignored her and tried to kill her.
For me thats not a great romantic story.

Edited by PhenixElite, 16 December 2012 - 10:15 PM.

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#6705 AzureWaters

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:42 PM

QUOTE (PhenixElite @ Dec 16 2012, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, thats true, but as i said in an earlier post: I dont think that its bad for her character to be important for pairing stuff. WHy do we need two charcters who act like heroes and defeat a lot of enemie? I think one is enough. I like sakuras role as love interest of the main charcter, because shes the one who makes out the whole lovestory(what is the most important for many in this forum).

Sakuras decision will imply a great love story into this manga, or a very, very, very, very BAD one.

I mean just imagine: Naruto(the main character) who never received love from anyone and was hated by the whole village when he was younger, starts to love a girl.(in an extremly selfless way)
In the end hes not getting the girl hes been in love the whole time and did everything for her because she ends up with a guy who always ignored her and tried to kill her.
For me thats not a great romantic story.


The truth is that whoever Naruto ends up with, he'll be happy. If Kishimoto decides Hinata or another girl is more fitting, then you won't see much angst at all about his situation with Sakura.

Regarding Sakura, she can still end up with Sasuke. It would be unfavorable to us, but regardless of murder attempts it wouldn't be very hard for Kishi to slap on some flashbacks and call it a day. And in reality- despite the negativity, the pairing still has some sort of platform. It isn't completely baseless, neither would it have come out of nowhere. SS, along with NH and NS, are very much still being played around with.




#6706 Chucky-kun

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:44 PM

Guys, guys guys...... let me give you my little analysis of 540. THe lover nin comes in and etc. Sakura politely rejects and says she's in love with someone else. This someone else is most likely Sasuke, HOWEVER. Then she sits down and contemplates it meaning shes began to doubt that with the negative light that Sasuke was shown in. This chapter wasn't more of a "Who does Sakura love" but more "Does Sakura love the right person?"

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#6707 KnS

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:57 PM

QUOTE (Paptala @ Dec 16 2012, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
First of all, Naruto confessing is primarily about Naruto's character, and properly resolving his romantic feelings for her. If Hinata and Sakura got the chance to confess and directly express their feelings, logic dictates Naruto, as the main character, will get the same chance whether or not it leads to NS canonization.

Secondly, its not about being a hero at all, its about Sakura coming to realizations about herself and her feelings. Naruto confirming that he loves her (since she clearly doubts his romantic feelings for her at the summit) and why he loves her (since Sai gave no reasons), will only help Sakura's character (since again, she seems to be of the belief that she's not worthy of Naruto's love - hence her words in 459 that he's an idiot for loving her) in regards to her confidence issues and reinforce Yamato's words (that her caring for Naruto as much as she does is enough).

A confession from Naruto would solve a lot of problems. His emotionally intense TnJ has been a hallmark of his success in other important issues, and that makes it all the more interesting that he has chosen not to make any impassioned TnJ-style pleas to Sakura or even acknowledged his feelings for her when she asked him point blank.

Evidence suggests that Naruto is waiting for the timing to be right. In #469, his first reaction to Sakura saying she loved him proves that he's been waiting and hoping to hear those words from her. It is his heart's desire to hear her say it, and he's ready to accept her when she's ready to mean it. The problem is, he -- even more than she -- is aware that she's not ready yet.

And in a confounding contradiction, I believe Naruto is at the same time NOT ready to accept Sakura's love -- even if he were convinced of it -- until he and Sasuke are standing side by side as equals and he can finally give Sakura the opportunity to choose him on his own terms. That's the way it seems to me right now, anyway.


QUOTE (Paptala @ Dec 16 2012, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Again, look at her reaction in 458 and 459 - she thinks Naruto is an idiot for loving her (indicating she doesn't feel like she's someone who deserves his love), and that she's caused him the most pain. This is reinforcing her words in 297, where she clearly feels that she doesn't do enough for Naruto. At the summit, she even asks Naruto after his reaction - "If you don't like me, then just say so!", indicating that she probably doesn't even believe he's still in love with her - not because of his actions towards her necessarily, but because of her own lack of self worth in this particular regard.

I think this is an important point, and a good reminder of how Naruto's own behavior has contributed directly to Sakura's confusion. Despite being in love with her himself, Naruto has done everything in his power to foster and enable Sakura's fantasy about Sasuke. It's no wonder it's a confused mess. [Sidenote, for those who might be reading Wilderness, this issue -- Sakura's confusion over Naruto's mixed messages, his reluctance to declare himself, and his complex dedication to Sasuke -- is at the heart of what I'm exploring in that story.]


QUOTE (AzureWaters @ Dec 16 2012, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"There's someone else that I love." The following chapter then shows that she was clearly talking about Sasuke. Her statement is no different from saying "I love Sasuke." There's no need to tell the Lover nin the exact name- its none of his business, really. For the readers and Sakura herself, whose she is speaking about is clear.

Taking it on face value and as a linear conversation, I agree with you that the logical implication is she was talking about Sasuke.

However, I also agree that it was written in a way that could be interpreted otherwise. One thing that doesn't get talked about much is the fact that regardless of Naruto's ultimate reaction to her confession, Sakura did publicly commit herself to Naruto at that time.

Even when Naruto argued with her she maintained that she could decide for herself how she felt, and challenged him by saying, "You think a girl confessing her love is stupid?" She never backed down from her statement that she loved Naruto and had chosen him over Sasuke. Whether Naruto and all the witnesses believed her or not doesn't change what she said or the impression she left by her statements.

So in that light, when Lover-nin first offered his letter and Sakura said, "Thank you, but there's someone else I--" Someone else she loves? She's promised to? She's made a public commitment to? In my view, the fact that it is worded that way and left incomplete does not rule out Naruto because she chose him publicly and that's where it was left.

Privately, though, when Lover-nin says (in the present tense, no less), "He must be a great guy if you're in love with him..." Sakura definitely thinks of Sasuke, albeit very unhappily. So she's still confused about the nature of her feelings for him. But then, we knew that from everything that happened at the summit.

I personally don't find Sakura's prolonged confusion to be a barrier to NS. A stumbling block, yes, but not a barrier. I won't consider SS or NH seriously in play unless Naruto's feelings are shown to have or be shifting away from Sakura. It's his story, and it only makes sense that his feelings are the key to how it will be resolved.


Edited by KnS, 16 December 2012 - 11:09 PM.


#6708 Awes9

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:06 PM

QUOTE (AzureWaters @ Dec 16 2012, 11:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The truth is that whoever Naruto ends up with, he'll be happy. If Kishimoto decides Hinata or another girl is more fitting, then you won't see much angst at all about his situation with Sakura.

Regarding Sakura, she can still end up with Sasuke. It would be unfavorable to us, but regardless of murder attempts it wouldn't be very hard for Kishi to slap on some flashbacks and call it a day. And in reality- despite the negativity, the pairing still has some sort of platform. It isn't completely baseless, neither would it have come out of nowhere. SS, along with NH and NS, are very much still being played around with.

I can't agree with that altough NH has still a chance of happening SS has been from part 1 to part 2 depicted as very negative, Sakura's feelings have always been selfish and a hindrance to her character she never acted the way she really is around him and needed to put a mask and the only positive that you can get from SS were from comradeship and not romance. It has no basis in canon and no platform for the way Sasuke treated her troughout the manga and no amount of flashback will give it any kind of platform.

#6709 Tsubaki

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:14 PM

QUOTE (Chatte @ Dec 16 2012, 07:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hahah, NaruSaku have always been like this, like a rollercoaster. biggrin.gif
Now they're calm, next time they "kill" each other, they laugh, then they cry, then they comfort each other, then they kill each other once more but in the end they both smile together. smile.gif



you're right! and I think that's why I ship them. their relationship isn't perfect, but it has so many moments and feelings involved that I can't stop myself to falling for them! their relationship seems so real to me. wub.gif



I used to be a SasuSaku fan even before I read/watch Naruto, more because I was influenced by people around me and because I was amazed with the NaruHina's popularity ... and there was a time that I really thought these two pairings were basically canon. But then I started reading / watching Naruto and began to realize that things weren't that way, all those scenes that people said to me being "so romantic" about SasuSaku turned to truly be just Sakura being a fangirl for Sasuke that practically didn't cared about her feelings for him. These two had good moments in Part 1, but there's practically nothing romantic to Sasuke towards Sakura, the closest we have that can consider romantic between them is the FOD scene and just that. To me, all these one-sided scenes that we have about Sakura's feelings for him were to build her resolve ... her motivation to run after him in part 2 In the same way that Naruto has his brotherhood with him as a reason.

But then part 2 started and ship SasuSaku became more and more difficult for me, but I tried to keep me in this ship since I don't usually give up on pairings, but NaruSaku has so much development in Part 2 that when I realized ... I was already ship them more that I expected . biggrin.gif

It's so hard to me to see SasuSaku and NaruHina canon now because .. well SasuSaku was Kishi who destroyed this pairing, the lack of feelings for Sasuke's part and how badly Sakura's feelings for him was portrayed all this time.. her feelings for him brings literally the worst of sakura's character. It's really hard to me believe that in the end Kishi will just paired them as if nothing had happened.

NaruHina has the biggest lack of development that I've seen in a possible couple of all the mangas I've ever read and It's all Kishi fault too .. if he wanted to make NaruHina a possible couple, he should at least have developed this couple, even just a little .. but he didn't and he had many chances to do this, but for some reason he just didn't. A selfish confession and some little hints here and there cannot be considered as building a pairing, Naruto is the main character, I don't believe that his love life will be so poorly resolved that way.

of course I'm not saying that NaruSaku is perfect, they have major flaws in their relationship, but compared to these two above I do really think that NaruSaku is the best option.

it's really hard for me to express myself since English isn't my first language, I hope at least you can understand what I said! unsure.gifD:

Edited by Tsubaki, 16 December 2012 - 11:19 PM.

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#6710 PhenixElite

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:31 PM

QUOTE (AzureWaters @ Dec 16 2012, 11:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The truth is that whoever Naruto ends up with, he'll be happy. If Kishimoto decides Hinata or another girl is more fitting, then you won't see much angst at all about his situation with Sakura.

Regarding Sakura, she can still end up with Sasuke. It would be unfavorable to us, but regardless of murder attempts it wouldn't be very hard for Kishi to slap on some flashbacks and call it a day. And in reality- despite the negativity, the pairing still has some sort of platform. It isn't completely baseless, neither would it have come out of nowhere. SS, along with NH and NS, are very much still being played around with.

Its true that naruto would be shown happily with whom he ends up. But would it be a good romance story if it was another girl instead of the girl hes in love since chapter 3? Maybe it would if there would be any hints during the story, that he starts to feel something for that other girl.(like it happend with sakura developing feelings for naruto)
But something like that didnt happen, and now its too late to imply something like that since it would come over extremly rushed. I just think that NS is the only way to add a great lovestory to this manga.

Also i have to agree with Awes9. I also dont really think that SS has a great base. A pairing like SS just shows the negative side of love and is it that what we want to see in the end? I dont!

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#6711 Chatte

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:42 PM

QUOTE (Tsubaki @ Dec 17 2012, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
you're right! and I think that's why I ship them. their relationship isn't perfect, but it has so many moments and feelings involved that I can't stop myself to falling for them! their relationship seems so real to me. wub.gif



I used to be a SasuSaku fan even before I read/watch Naruto, more because I was influenced by people around me and because I was amazed with the NaruHina's popularity ... and there was a time that I really thought these two pairings were basically canon. But then I started reading / watching Naruto and began to realize that things weren't that way, all those scenes that people said to me being "so romantic" about SasuSaku turned to truly be just Sakura being a fangirl for Sasuke that practically didn't cared about her feelings for him. These two had good moments in Part 1, but there's practically nothing romantic to Sasuke towards Sakura, the closest we have that can consider romantic between them is the FOD scene and just that. To me, all these one-sided scenes that we have about Sakura's feelings for him were to build her resolve ... her motivation to run after him in part 2 In the same way that Naruto has his brotherhood with him as a reason.

But then part 2 started and ship SasuSaku became more and more difficult for me, but I tried to keep me in this ship since I don't usually give up on pairings, but NaruSaku has so much development in Part 2 that when I realized ... I was already ship them more that I expected . biggrin.gif

It's so hard to me to see SasuSaku and NaruHina canon now because .. well SasuSaku was Kishi who destroyed this pairing, the lack of feelings for Sasuke's part and how badly Sakura's feelings for him was portrayed all this time.. her feelings for him brings literally the worst of sakura's character. It's really hard to me believe that in the end Kishi will just paired them as if nothing had happened.

NaruHina has the biggest lack of development that I've seen in a possible couple of all the mangas I've ever read and It's all Kishi fault too .. if he wanted to make NaruHina a possible couple, he should at least have developed this couple, even just a little .. but he didn't and he had many chances to do this, but for some reason he just didn't. A selfish confession and some little hints here and there cannot be considered as building a pairing, Naruto is the main character, I don't believe that his love life will be so poorly resolved that way.

of course I'm not saying that NaruSaku is perfect, they have major flaws in their relationship, but compared to these two above I do really think that NaruSaku is the best option.

it's really hard for me to express myself since English isn't my first language, I hope at least you can understand what I said! unsure.gifD:


Hahah, it's ok, English is not my first language either. biggrin.gif
And you pretty much summed-up my views on the shipping as well.
I am a former SS/NH that turned into NS after getting into the manga, stopped with the anime for a while and read more about NS.
What has truly transformed me into a NS were Nostradamus's analyze and the Manifesto.
Once you read those, you can't possibly not turn into NS shipper.
That if, you're a logical person.

Really, what I like most about 90% of the NS fandom is the fact that is based on logic and development and are not elusory like the other fandoms. I know I might be critiqued for this but the fact that I was initially part of those 2 fandom, give me a certain right to think this way and I have a base for my statements.

It's funny because whenever I see a NH/SS outraging fan I ask myself... would I have become this way? God forbid!

So probably because I tend to be more down to earth, not feeding myself with illusions is a part of why I became an NS shipper.

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#6712 Awes9

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:48 PM

Someone explain to me how can SS can happen ? Sasuke has never shown any kind of feelings beyond comradeship for Sakura he insulted her ignored her and now tried to kill her 3 times and then suddenly he will fall in love with Sakura after his redemption , which Sakura didn't participate at all, whereas he never felt any romantic feelings before nor does he feel any now. At least with Naruto and Sasuke it was shown that Naruto had a clear effect on Sasuke and this troughout the manga, Sakura never had any effect on him apart from this one time in the forest of death. Is the argument that anything can happen ? Yes anything can happen and Naruto can one panel the Juubi, Madara and Obito next chapter but maybe Kishimoto wants to keep some consistency in his writings and not make sudden asspulls.
Even if some of you guys believe that NH and SS have a fair chance then you should aknowledge that NaruSaku has a far greater chance because it's the only relationship that ever evolved troughout the manga, parallels, and hints of feelings beyond comradeship from the other part whereas the other 2 remained stagnant or got worse like in SS's case.
Yes anything can happen but until proven otherwise by the manga then NS is far more likely than the other 2.

Edited by Awes9, 16 December 2012 - 11:49 PM.


#6713 Chatte

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:54 PM

To be honest the only couples I see cannon are NaruSaku and SasuKarin.
Btw have you guys read the SasuKarin manifesto?

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#6714 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:55 PM

I only see NS being canon because it's the only pairing he developed until now.

In part 1 there was any pairings being developed some people can counter it with some NS scenes from part 1 but i ignore part 1 because sakura wanted to leave the village with sasuke but sasuke did not let her go, so i think she didnt had a strong bond/feeling with Naruto.
In part 2 kishimoto developed it, and he didnt developed it just for nothing.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 16 December 2012 - 11:56 PM.

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#6715 Zatheko

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:04 AM

QUOTE (Dαrkrєrsŧ @ Dec 16 2012, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I only see NS being canon because it's the only pairing he developed until now.

In part 1 there was any pairings being developed some people can counter it with some NS scenes from part 1 but i ignore part 1 because sakura wanted to leave the village with sasuke but sasuke did not let her go, so i think she didnt had a strong bond/feeling with Naruto.
In part 2 kishimoto developed it, and he didnt developed it just for nothing.


Same here, NS is the only pairing that has feelings coming form both sides, NH and SS are both one sided so they really have NO development in this story at all, NS is the only pairing that has shown development from both sides.

#6716 sushi.

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:06 AM

QUOTE (Chatte @ Dec 17 2012, 12:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To be honest the only couples I see cannon are NaruSaku and SasuKarin.
Btw have you guys read the SasuKarin manifesto?

And ShikaTema. I think that's the only pairing that's popular within all shipping fandoms as well. laugh.gif
And while we're in this, I think LeeTen, NejiHina, ChouIno have a good chance as well.

Btw, no, can you link to the SasuKarin manifesto? : )

Edited by sushi., 17 December 2012 - 12:07 AM.

ナルサク


#6717 Zatheko

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:09 AM

QUOTE (sushi. @ Dec 16 2012, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And ShikaTema. I think that's the only pairing that's popular within all shipping fandoms as well. laugh.gif
And while we're in this, I think LeeTen, NejiHina, ChouIno have a good chance as well.

Btw, no, can you link to the SasuKarin manifesto? : )


I too would like the link smile.gif haven't seen it either.

#6718 Chatte

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:10 AM

http://kanae-mizuhit...782.html#cutid1

Enjoy the reading! ^^

After I've read this, I also see similarities between NS/SK, heh.

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#6719 Tsubaki

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:26 AM

QUOTE (Chatte @ Dec 16 2012, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hahah, it's ok, English is not my first language either. biggrin.gif
And you pretty much summed-up my views on the shipping as well.
I am a former SS/NH that turned into NS after getting into the manga, stopped with the anime for a while and read more about NS.
What has truly transformed me into a NS were Nostradamus's analyze and the Manifesto.
Once you read those, you can't possibly not turn into NS shipper.
That if, you're a logical person.

Really, what I like most about 90% of the NS fandom is the fact that is based on logic and development and are not elusory like the other fandoms. I know I might be critiqued for this but the fact that I was initially part of those 2 fandom, give me a certain right to think this way and I have a base for my statements.

It's funny because whenever I see a NH/SS outraging fan I ask myself... would I have become this way? God forbid!

So probably because I tend to be more down to earth, not feeding myself with illusions is a part of why I became an NS shipper.


same here, NS has so many development and so many non- platonic hints that came a time when I could no longer ignore this pairing anymore! biggrin.gif

Can you link me with the Nostradamus's analyze and the Manifesto?? I never read them!! omfg.gif

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#6720 sushi.

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:27 AM

I think that even if they do not become canon, they do at least deserve closure. If I remember right, Karin wondered if she was going to forgive Sasuke or not in prison? Don't remember the chapter though. mellow.gif Some of it was an act, but..meeeh, I think they'll meet again and give us the answer. cool.gif

ナルサク





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