4869 replies to this topic

[kawarimi]

EDIT: I can see where you interpretation comes from Kawarimi, but I still disagree because Sasuke does nothing throughout the entire panel that was posted, so I am not sure what Naruto is reacting to. On the other hand, you have Sakura crying over Sasuke, which tells Naruto how deep those feelings run. It's also consistent with the "promise of a lifetime scene" that comes later.

It's good to know I'm not completely delusional, I'm glad you could at least see my reasoning even if you don't agree. Perhaps I should re-phrase it in that it's not just Sakura (I agree with the connection to the Promise of a Lifetime) but I still think from the order of the panels that the reason Naruto stopped mid-phrase is because of something with Sasuke, but this is a minor thing I'm not going to argue; I just wanted to put up a small explanation of how I came ot that conclusion so gamerman doesn't lose all hope in me.

[Shadow0fabandit]

This is amazing, we even have quite a few SasuSaku fans who believe NaruSaku will happen.

Matt

[Hopestar]

Hopefully become full-ledge NaruSakuer.

Anyway I think it will be a while for either of Naruto & Sakura shows any romance interest for each other (though Sakura sorta flirted with him & Naruto continues asking her out). For all we know its possible Sasuke could be the thing that helps them get together. Besides Sai & Yamato had already pointed him out its up for them to pursuit it which is everyone is gambling! Aslo the reference theory of Tsunade & Jiraiya is also in play here there's nothing we can verify unfortunately. I suggest we wait until Team Kakashi goes on another or something because that's where we get our important NS hints is during a tragdy crisis.

[gamerman_007]

EDIT: I can see where you interpretation comes from Kawarimi, but I still disagree because Sasuke does nothing throughout the entire panel that was posted, so I am not sure what Naruto is reacting to. On the other hand, you have Sakura crying over Sasuke, which tells Naruto how deep those feelings run. It's also consistent with the "promise of a lifetime scene" that comes later.

It's good to know I'm not completely delusional, I'm glad you could at least see my reasoning even if you don't agree. Perhaps I should re-phrase it in that it's not just Sakura (I agree with the connection to the Promise of a Lifetime) but I still think from the order of the panels that the reason Naruto stopped mid-phrase is because of something with Sasuke, but this is a minor thing I'm not going to argue; I just wanted to put up a small explanation of how I came ot that conclusion so gamerman doesn't lose all hope in me.

Oh. Your. God. Pheonixblood?!

Well atleast you explained yourself. Whoo boy, it would be bad day for SS, where one of their best debators started to debate like delusional Naruhina fans.

[Coupe]

Well, I'd like to see (other thsn Narusaku) Is........................ SHINOXANYONE
Serously when people make parings they forget Shino :shamefulcry0js: its not fair! :shamefulcry0js:

[Last Raven]

Anybody care to counter? Sadly, i'm too lazy to do much and I have other priorities than to debate pairings.

From good ol' Sporky:

http://forums.naruto...&postcount=3835

Anyways, back to work on my voiced rants!

[puckreathof]

You know, I wonder when that poster from NF started watching/reading a series called Sasuke, because I always thought it was called Naruto. In response to that argument, the whole 'healer' thing, first off, Sakura's realization did not come then that her path was one of a medical ninja. She was awed, sure, but that means little in contrast to the bigger picture. It is later when she meets Naruto in the hospital and he's mostly dead after she sent him off to his death! (Which is what it would have been without the fox.) He went willingly, but I'm sure she was feeling a mountain of guilt, you know why? Because she could do nothing for either of her boys.


She couldn't stop Sasuke, and she couldn't help Naruto who nearly killed himself for her and what he felt would be her happiness. So, as showin in the manga and possibly the anime, Tsunade had said that a medical ninja has to have had loss, and has to have those things worth working for, and Tsunade thinks of Dan and Nawaki. Sakura thinks of Naruto and Sasuke in those ways, but it doesn't show say which is who. Now, yes, Sasuke, the one who has become a villain needs healing? Well, he needs it, but he won't accept it. He'll accept the devil's fruit. He'll accept the fast path to power. Naruto on the other hand needs healing as well. Naruto's even worse off. At least Sasuke was able to exert his will to stop the power of the Cursed Seal. Naruto on the other hand has an age-old demon that the most powerful of the village couldn't stop with a weakening seal hampering his efforts.

Not only that, Naruto's healing needs to continue on so many levels. He has spent his life shunned, but he has friends now, thank goodness. Sasuke lost his family, but he decided to emo out and avoided friends because ... well, he's an emo-child. Well, let's not bash here and say he avoided others because they would impede his avenger goal. Sasuke's damage is self-inflicted, Naruto's is inflicted upon him by other forces. You can't heal what someone does to themselves, because they'll do it again. Sasuke's going to need to accept that he's wrong at some point and ask for help, before he can get any, and the healing he needs isn't physical or emotional, it's psychological. Sakura didn't get any kind of psych degree while I wasn't watching, did she?

Naruto's wounds on the other hand, are both physical and emotional (and some parts psychological as well) and they are being caused to him by outside forces. Hatred of the villagers, and the cruel fate of the Jinchuuriki, and his own despair and feelings of worthlessness, to the point where he'll go 4-tailed to beat Orochi. Bah. Naruto would want help. He needs it. He simply isn't getting it. He almost never does. He does get the rare bit of support here and there, but mostly, he's on his own.

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

A good example is the whole Kakashi stating he really did believe Naruto would surpass the Yondaime when Yamato /Denzou thought he was just giving Naruto words of encouragement. Sadly, this is the only example, other than Neji's 'you have better eyes than me' where Naruto is getting praised by an equal or superior.'

The argument is merely his supposition, no actual visual or written proof exists. Nothing shows that Sakura made her decision there in the hospital room. It was made afterwards, when she declared she would not be a burden any more, to Naruto.

[Silent Shinobi]

Heh, where to begin? So many things about this post are opinionated, biased, cynicism and complete one-sided interpretation. The thing about debating is that your point is only valid if you back it up with fact or well established reasoning. In an anime debate only canon is fact, and in Naruto only manga is canon. This post fails on so many levels. In fact, it's laughable that this is actually being used to debate with, and is more likely just the rants of an avid NaruSaku hater.

Case in point:

On a fanon side, I guess that's a good reason why I don't like NaruSaku: they just don't have a fluffy or romantic vibe. It's hard for me to picture them kissing or being in romantic situations. I mean, a lot of Keryon-Jima's artwork is overused with NaruHina, but I find her artwork dropdead gorgeous *so biased*.

Yeah, biased, he's certainly got that right. This is why I say he CAN'T be making an argument here. he starts of commenting on the FANART. WTF? That's a BEAUTIFUL reason to hate a pairing; It doesn't have enough fake pictures of them kissing! :rolleyes:

I do agree that Sakura's motivation to change does not stem from just wanting to bring back Sasuke, but also by her obligation to help Naruto.

Heh, don't you just love the biased wording here? Sakura's OBLIGATION to help Naruto. Not to mention the fact that Sakura first left it in Naruto's hands. She specifically stated her failure at bringing Sasuke back and implored Naruto to do it because she believed that he was the only one who could stop him. So where was the obligation to help then? She decided to help Naruto retrieve Sasuke only after he returned to Konoha, half-DEAD and APOLOGIZING for his failure. so I guess that's when she felt this sudden obligation, huh? Not that she felt guilty for having Naruto promise her something that nearly got him killed, not that she realized that asking Naruto to do it alone wasn't fair to him (interpretations that are just as valid), it was an obligation. Then, to extrapolate on this point, he references 296-297, and makes a completely off-base statement.

I think that was the purpose of 297, to show that Sakura felt that she couldn't do anything for Naruto, which was not true ( but yet, it's not like she even tries to do anything for him... the one scene that could've make NaruSaku canon FAILED...this is 296 I'm referring to).

Right. So, Sakura staring death in the face by running out to try and calm a raging kyuubi (because, at that point he was hardly Naruto) in order to bring Naruto back is not doing anything for him, huh? Pumping her chakra into Naruto to help heal his Kyuubi inflicted wounds is nothing, huh? Trying to learn the technique Yamato used to stop Kyuubi for Naruto's sake is nothing? Hmm... I smell bias. By this reasoning, Sakura tried to do a whole lotta nothing for Sasuke. Oh, not only that, but apparently, since Sakura was unable to do something which is impossible for anyone to do other than someone with Shodaime's jutsu (Calm the Kyuubi chakra) this somehow equates to a failure of NaruSaku.

Uhuh.

Tell me another.

Follow it up with more passing of opinion as fact:

Sakura feels hope from Naruto, and plus she can relate to him on many levels concerning their common goal.

And what is that goal?

To save Sasuke ^^

Which is why NaruSaku as a romantic relationship is a total plothole imo.

As close to fact as this looks, it's still opinionated. Sakura can relate to Naruto "concerning their common goal". Of course, disregarding the relating that the two have had to each other throughout the series, starting from when Naruto caught Kakashi with the trap of board eraser. And 'Saving Sasuke' is NOT a common goal. That hasn't been stated in canon. In one sentence, Naruto's goal is to 'Save Sasuke'. Sakura's goal is to 'Help NARUTO save Sasuke'. She says 'We'll do it together', when at first, it was just 'Naruto, please save Sasuke'. To state it the way he does is a pretty obvious attempt to factor Sakura's resolve and willingness to help Naruto out of the equation. Furthermore, how the hell does a common goal make NaruSaku a plothole? That has no basis. Last I checked, (even in that very post), the goal was to SAVE Sasuke. It wasn't a common goal to have SEX with him. As a matter of fact, the prospect of Sakura being romantically involved with Sasuke hasn't gotten so much as a MENTION by Sakura. Now, I COULD go rant about how that signifies that she doesn't like Sasuke that way anymore. But I think I'll do as a respectable debator should, and let that fact speak for itself.

Sakura didn't just randomly decide to become a medic nin after deciding to save Sasuke with Naruto. The very moment where she realized that being a medical ninja may just be her path in life was in *shock* 181! The chapter where Naruto acknowledged and accepted Sakura's feelings for Sasuke. When Tsunade walked in the room, Sakura made a comment along the lines that she was a beautiful women, and was completely stricken with awe as she watched Tsunade heal Sasuke. This scene was not only to show that Sakura cared for Sasuke on a deep level and Naruto could accept this, but Sakura realizing that this was something she could do to protect the ones she cared about.

And all this conjecture and reasoning is fact, because Spork Ninja is the OFFICIAL Narrator of Naruto! [/sarcasm] Too bad he can't get his chapters right. 181 is the chapter in which Sakura tried to stop Sasuke from leaving. I guess that number was stuck in his head, being the big SasuSaku moment and all. Nevermind the fact that it's a whole 142 (and counting!) chapters ago. But that's a tangent.

He's actually talking about a number of different chapters here. Too bad it's all wrong. Sakura never made such a comment while Tsunade was healing Sasuke. In fact, there never was a scene where Tsunade healed Sasuke! So I don't know where the hell he got THAT scene from. The scene with Sakura and Tsunade in the hospital was Tsunade noticing the fresh flowers and wondering if Sakura visited everyday (NOT a remark on her devotion, which is what TOO many SasuSakuers say Tsunade said). Sakura asked Tsunade to heal Sasuke with a bow, and that was that. (Chapter 172)

The scene where Sasuke woke up and was with Sakura was Sakura trying to perfectly peel apples for Sasuke. Sasuke thinks about how much stronger (than him) Naruto has gotten, and smacks the plate of apples away with a scowl and glare. (Chapter 173) Later, Naruto comes in, Sasuke picks a fight, and they both leave to the roof, ignoring Sakura, and Sasuke stepping on the apples, which the crushed apple got a nice little closeup (Symbol, anyone?) while Sakura sullenly looked at it (Chapter 175). Wow, can't you just FEEL the budding SasuSaku love? [/sarcasm]

And the chapter where Naruto so called "acknowledged and accepted Sakura's feelings for Sasuke" is actually 183, and that line is FAR from true. Naruto's words DO acknowledge that she likes Sasuke, but furthermore establish how he relates her situation to his own. The exact lines are "You really like Sasuke, huh? I know how much pain you're in because of Sasuke. I can understand..." Sakura then thinks about the mean things she said to Naruto (while henge'd as Sasuke) about him trying to ruin her life... realized he was always helping her... and cried, sobbing out her thanks. Whoa. that's a COMPLETELY different picture than what Spork described. Hell, the "acknowledgement" almost seems like a NaruSaku moment, doesn't it? Difference is, mine isn't an opinion, but a statement of fact.

Sakura had visited Sasuke in the hospital quite a lot in part 1, and bringing him flowers was what she could do for him. But I think when she saw Tsunade, Sakura realized what those powers could do and probably wished that she could learn how to heal Sasuke as well. I think it was an idea that was brewing in Sakura's head ever since the introduction of Tsunade, and Sasuke's departure only fueled Sakura's motivation to be able to heal him more.

And maybe if the manga chapter he's referencing actually existed, his thoughts on it would mean something. No... wait... not really. Not without any actual PROOF that would give his thoughts some CREDIBILITY. And Sasuke's departure fueled Sakura's motivation to heal someone who's NOT there for her to heal more than she's already NOT healing him? Oh yeah, THAT makes sense. [/sarcasm]

Sakura's purpose in the story is of the healer and someone who maintains the balance of the opposing forces ( namely Sasuke and Naruto).

Yeah, cause Kishimoto told him so while they were at a restaurant eating sushi and drinking coke (Kudos to whoever gets THAT reference). And she does a hella lotta balancing, doesn't she, considering she was worried primarily about Sasuke in most of Part 1, Is with Naruto and NOT Sasuke in ALL of Part 2 so far, and has YET to stop a SINGLE fight or altercation between Uchiha and Uzumaki. But Spork Ninja knows EXACTLY what role Sakura plays in this manga right? Now, if only he could learn the chapter numbers...

Naruto has already been acknowledged and appreciated by Sakura, so there is no need for her to influence his character.

Yeah, in PART 2. Funny how none of this post references that so much... must be because there's not really a Anti-NaruSaku moment to be found in it, huh? Or is is the lack of NaruHina and SasuSaku?

After all, Sakura did not really influence Naruto's character other than the fact that he considers her "his important person" and can relate to her on the level of not having your feelings acknowledged ( which is now a resolved issue).

"And that's the bottom line, cause Spork Ninja said so!" Yeah, wouldn't it be great if you could just take something you don't like and just declare it resolved because you want it to be? And you know, considering someone your 'important person' isn't really all that important, right? :rolleyes:

The NaruSaku relationship at this point has pretty much already been resolved. Having their relationship turn romantic would be an odd move on Kishi's part, and doesn't really serve a purpose in the story. Sakura is namely meant to be Naruto's backup support and teammate.

.... Yeah, pairing up the main character of a story with the person he likes is "odd" and pointless, but developing a relationship between two supporting cast members independent of the lead role is just PERFECT, right? [/sarcasm] Biased much?

However, she is designated to be Sasuke's healer.

Even though we have yet to see ONE point in the story where Sakura heals Sasuke. BRILLANT!

I'll finish this later

[Vespar]

Someone ought to link this to Sporky.
I think someone here at H&E maintains it and I apologise for forgetting who does!! ^^;;

[Nick Soapdish]

Heh, where to begin? So many things about this post are opinionated, biased, cynicism and complete one-sided interpretation. The thing about debating is that your point is only valid if you back it up with fact or well established reasoning. In an anime debate only canon is fact, and in Naruto only manga is canon. This post fails on so many levels. In fact, it's laughable that this is actually being used to debate with, and is more likely just the rants of an avid NaruSaku hater.

It's a post in the anti-club and the writer said that it's biased and a matter of their opinion. It's not a debate post.

And please use fewer quotes in your replies so the tags actually work and it'll be more readable.

Anybody care to counter? Sadly, i'm too lazy to do much and I have other priorities than to debate pairings.

From good ol' Sporky:

http://forums.naruto...&postcount=3835

Anyways, back to work on my voiced rants!

I've mentioned this a few times before to Arsene, but if you find an interesting post from somewhere else that you want to discuss, actually discuss it. We aren't so bereft of conversation that we need people to be searching out new things for us to argue about.

[Silent Shinobi]

hehe, sorry Nick Just that usually when someone says 'counter this' it means 'debate it'. At least that what it means to me. My point was how not only is this not a debate post, but has too many problems to even be able to make a sound argument. But I guess I went a little overboard, lol.

Sorry.

[Nick Soapdish]

hehe, sorry Nick Just that usually when someone says 'counter this' it means 'debate it'. At least that what it means to me. My point was how not only is this not a debate post, but has too many problems to even be able to make a sound argument. But I guess I went a little overboard, lol.

Sorry.

I don't think it was intended as that either. It was just somebody's opinion.

So yeah, keep it a bit more reined in next time.

[puckreathof]

Look, as hard as we try, no argument is without some form of personal preference/bias. We do our best, but it isn't. Simply our decisions are composed of the person we have become from who we were then, so our preference/opinion is shaped by this. I had a LAP once upon a time about this, and it stands true. Maybe the fangirls who support NaruHina are the kind of girl who is too shy to go for the rebellious boy she likes, or is just the shy girl who wants someone and .. look, you get the idea.

Nothing wrong with that. Personally, I've been the 'nice guy' that Naruto plays, like Lee as well, who has often done things without expecting reward for them, and continued on. We live vicariously through the characters in the mediums we enjoy, and so that's just how that works. Basic psychology.

[Daniee]

On a fanon side, I guess that's a good reason why I don't like NaruSaku: they just don't have a fluffy or romantic vibe. It's hard for me to picture them kissing or being in romantic situations.

He/She must REALLY hate SasuSaku then...as Sasuke's personality would most likely never allow him to be sweet & romantic. And I have to disagree with Naruto & Sakura incapable of having any romantic moments. I mean, they did almost kiss in chapter 3. Though Sakura thought it was Sasuke, all she needs to do is love Naruto like that, and there ya go.

The NaruSaku relationship at this point has pretty much already been resolved. Having their relationship turn romantic would be an odd move on Kishi's part, and doesn't really serve a purpose in the story. Sakura is namely meant to be Naruto's backup support and teammate.

Romance rarely does actually have a point in a story...especially in a shounen manga(and James Bond movies). Most of the time it's there just because the creator wants it to and to please the people who enjoy romance.

However, she is designated to be Sasuke's healer.

If He/She is referring to Sasuke's "darkness", then all signs point to Naruto mostly having that role...sorry, bud.

And on a sidenote, I was recently browsing a thread on MangaHelpers where people were predicting the end of Naruto, and a few people think that Naruto and Sakura will have a kid ^.^ (and they were neutral on pairings, from what I understood). I agree with that. Naruto, to me, just seems like the type of story to end with that.

[DasDeke]

On a fanon side, I guess that's a good reason why I don't like NaruSaku: they just don't have a fluffy or romantic vibe. It's hard for me to picture them kissing or being in romantic situations.

He/She must REALLY hate SasuSaku then...as Sasuke's personality would most likely never allow him to be sweet & romantic. And I have to disagree with Naruto & Sakura incapable of having any romantic moments. I mean, they did almost kiss in chapter 3. Though Sakura thought it was Sasuke, all she needs to do is love Naruto like that, and there ya go.

The NaruSaku relationship at this point has pretty much already been resolved. Having their relationship turn romantic would be an odd move on Kishi's part, and doesn't really serve a purpose in the story. Sakura is namely meant to be Naruto's backup support and teammate.

Romance rarely does actually have a point in a story...especially in a shounen manga(and James Bond movies). Most of the time it's there just because the creator wants it to and to please the people who enjoy romance.

However, she is designated to be Sasuke's healer.

If He/She is referring to Sasuke's "darkness", then all signs point to Naruto mostly having that role...sorry, bud.

And on a sidenote, I was recently browsing a thread on MangaHelpers where people were predicting the end of Naruto, and a few people think that Naruto and Sakura will have a kid ^.^ (and they were neutral on pairings, from what I understood). I agree with that. Naruto, to me, just seems like the type of story to end with that.

Agreed, Sasuke has got issues. Big time. Plus he's pretty much a cold hearted bloke by now, so I doubt we'll see them as a couple. Really Sasuke was just a child's crush for Sakura.

See I think Naruto and Sakura could work, but I think she'd have to be the one to push the issue. Kind of like my icon there. Naruto seems to still care greatly for her, but I think he's just in the mindset that she still wants to be with Sasuke. Let’s hope she proves him wrong.

Sasuke doesn't need a healer, he needs a shrink *snicker* seriously though I doubt he'd look at Sakura like that. Maybe as a family member or a sister, but he never showed any interest in her more then that. I agree as well that Sakura is going to be healing Naruto. She kind of completes him in a way. Besides whom needs more healing then a kid that was isolated all his life for saving the village by being a container for a demon that almost demolished the village. Is it better to have had family and lost them, or not to have any family at all?

For anyone whom thinks their relationship is resolved, we'll just have to see won't we...

I could agree with that last part, I could just see the camera zooming in to Naruto and Sakura, her whispering something in his ear, and it zooming to the wall of the Hokage with Naruto screaming "NANI!!"

[Last Raven]

http://forums.naruto...=86148&page=197

This warrants a place in my voiced rant.

First off, they really should not mock others of something they themselves are guilty as sin of commiting as well. That's like someone who mocks those who are addicted to pornography yet are just as obsessed.

Second, they shouldn't create mass generalizations about the entire fanbase based on a couple of posts in which people were just messing around and having a good time. God, they are looking for whatever excuse they can find to deepen their obsessions and make their opposing fandom look bad (AKA mudslinging in political debates). Why do they automatically accept whatever anybody else says to them no matter how irresponsible it is? The amount of ad hominem arguments there is...ugh...

[Random Nobody]

http://forums.naruto...=86148&page=197

This warrants a place in my voiced rant.

First off, they really should not mock others of something they themselves are guilty as sin of commiting as well. That's like someone who mocks those who are addicted to pornography yet are just as obsessed.

Second, they shouldn't create mass generalizations about the entire fanbase based on a couple of posts in which people were just messing around and having a good time. God, they are looking for whatever excuse they can find to deepen their obsessions and make their opposing fandom look bad (AKA mudslinging in political debates). Why do they automatically accept whatever anybody else says to them no matter how irresponsible it is? The amount of ad hominem arguments there is...ugh...

I'm not so sure that would warrent a rant. Its true they were being very rude in their generalizations of our fandoms but the quotes they were replying too were just as bad (though I don't like the fact that they only took the bad quotes and pretended like everyone was saying that stuff). I don't think the "they were just messing around" excuse really works, after all that could be said of any SasuSaku/NaruHina post that bashes NaruSaku as well. I think the best thing to do would be to just drop it or, even better, if the people on are site who said those things apologized, that way either the Anti-NS fans would stop talking bad about us, or they would look immature for not letting it go when we already tried to make amends (though I'm sure most of them would just let it go too). Ah well, its up to you what you do its your rant after all and judging from what I've seen you post in the NS FC it should be a nice rant.

Oh by the way, did anyone else find Kataimiko's new avatar........."distracting" ?

[Last Raven]

Oh by the way, did anyone else find Kataimiko's new avatar........."distracting" ?

It's from a KakaSakuNaru h-doujin. I noticed the styles of that drawing and a colored picture on Deviantart and someone said it came from a hentai comic.

[Random Nobody]

Oh by the way, did anyone else find Kataimiko's new avatar........."distracting" ?

It's from a KakaSakuNaru h-doujin. I noticed the styles of that drawing and a colored picture on Deviantart and someone said it came from a hentai comic.

Well that explains why it was distracting Man, how come everyone can find good doujins but me :shamefulcry0js:

[puckreathof]

Yeah. Let's just say that in that picture, Sakura's ... doing fine. She's doing great. Ho mama, yeah, she's doing ok there. If you need access to it Random, and are over 18, let me know, and I can get you a copy of the doujin.