749 replies to this topic

[rocci]

Statement: Out of the first five Hokages, Tsunade is the worst.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree, why? You know the reason.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Disagree, why? You know the reason.

Maybe if the last two included, sure. Honestly, I think I don't. Please explain.

[Nostradamus]

Statement: Out of the first five Hokages, Tsunade is the worst.

Agree or disagree?

Well that kind of depends on someone's point of view.

In a way I would say yes because she went soft on Sasuke. She should've given a go to the kill order. But apart from that she did her job. So agree and disagree.

[sushi.]

Statement: Out of the first five Hokages, Tsunade is the worst.

Agree or disagree?

No. She took over during a messy time. She didn't clean it up, but she kept it stable. She couldn't protect the village against Pain, but she got way too much kitten for that. She was also decisive, a formidable politician, and knew what to do in most situations.

Hiruzen was the worst. He took no action to improve things and even let orphans live alone. Or Tobirama, he did many great things but his one bad thing was really big and basically started everything.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Statement: Out of the first five Hokages, Tsunade is the worst.

Agree or disagree?

I disagree overall. It feels like a vast majority of the hate people give her and call her "the worst (Ho)Kage" is far more due to shallow reasoning like she doesn't do any huge, flashy jutsu like the other (Ho)Kage or other shinobi/kunoichi in general tend to show off while seeming to completely discount her medical ninjutsu as "useless" (even though even Ay admitted how Tsunade's strength surpassed his and we've seen examples of his brute strength). Heck, outside of using up too much chakra (usually through her seal release), Tsunade has been maintaining a youthful-looking genjutsu that, as far as I know, nobody was able to see through for decades straight. That alone must require extremely good chakra control very few can muster.

 

No. She took over during a messy time. She didn't clean it up, but she kept it stable. She couldn't protect the village against Pain, but she got way too much kitten for that. She was also decisive, a formidable politician, and knew what to do in most situations.

Hiruzen was the worst. He took no action to improve things and even let orphans live alone. Or Tobirama, he did many great things but his one bad thing was really big and basically started everything.

Yeah:

1.) Her position was basically similar to Vice Presidents taking over the assassination / death of the President. Never easy to take over the leadership during such times, especially if the President was very popular, like FDR or Kennedy were. Both Presidents also being at the forefront of a war/conflict too, so that only added a lot more weight onto that Vice President's shoulders, so the fact that she was able to get out that huge funk of hers, take the position, and keep things from falling apart in such a short time really says something about her. Just taking the position, due to her pedigree as Hashirama's granddaughter and one of the Sannin, was probably enough to really boost Konoha's morale.


2.) The important thing is that she protected the people of Konoha through the widespread use of her seal (which resulted in her coma afterward). The village itself is just a bunch of buildings that can be rebuilt/restored over time. (As Yamato had to learn the hard way with his constant Mokuton use to build houses, lol.)


3.) I'd say the biggest mistakes she made were...

A.) As mentioned, being too soft on Sasuke (due to her emotional connection to Naruto most likely) which, to others, could be easily misconstrued as more Uchiha favoritism given if it were almost anyone else who did what Sasuke did, they would be immediately marked as a missing-nin - what to do with them would depend on their rank and/or what exactly they did and whatnot. IIRC, Ay mentioned his suspicions about why Konoha never marked Sasuke as a missing-nin yet.

B.) Initially letting herself be pushed around by the Elders too much before finally telling them off shortly before Pein's attack.

C.) Not knocking the stupid childish Sasuke crush out of Sakura (for good this time) after the war and teaching her reality again.

[Yyubie]

What was Tsunade said when Jiraya asked him to become a Hokage ?? "Hokage tittle is kitten ... only an idiot will take it"

She has a choice ... to take a burden of responsibility and support his late little brother, dead lover, and continue their dream to become a hokage

OR

Accept Orochimaru's offer so that she can see her beloved little brother and lover again , even if it's just an Edo Tensei (illusion), She will be dead if she take this choice because Orochimaru planning to kill her after she heals his arm (using both Dan and Kawaki edo tensei , because he knows she can't fight both of them because she loves them).

She choose the first choice and become a Hokage even though she REALLY LOVEs Nawaki and Dan.

 

And what is Sakura said when Seeing Naruto shaking at the chuunin exam ?? "I don't wanna see that stupid dream of your crushed"

Unlike Tsunade, her apprentice / student Sakura ... has a choice to lived in a fake dream (obsession) with Sasuke or to support and be with Naruto's dream as a hokage.

She choose the first choice, keep lying to herself that she is happy with her live now.

 

It's basically the same as : will Tsunade choose Jiraya or Orochimaru , and will Sakura choose Naruto or Sasuke.

 

Based on THIS ... the answer is clear.

Edited by Yyubie, 08 June 2016 - 10:27 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Statement: Out of the first five Hokages, Tsunade is the worst.

Agree or disagree?

No she's not the worse I think Hiruzen and the second one were since a lot of what happened was there fault to being with, with the second messing with the Uchiha and Hiruzen with the Orochimaru thing. I think for how busy Tsunade was with training Sakura, working the in hospital and being Hokage she was better work wise than the others, Let's not get into Kakashi and Naruto being Hokage cause they both sucked too and Kakashi had no reason to be Hokage since really he did nothing and was just holding at for Naruto which makes me wonder why Tsunade still wasn't Hokage after the war and what Naruto was still a genin and jumped right to Hokage which goes against their ranking system.

[VanitasDS76491]

I disagree overall. It feels like a vast majority of the hate people give her and call her "the worst (Ho)Kage" is far more due to shallow reasoning like she doesn't do any huge, flashy jutsu like the other (Ho)Kage or other shinobi/kunoichi in general tend to show off while seeming to completely discount her medical ninjutsu as "useless" (even though even Ay admitted how Tsunade's strength surpassed his and we've seen examples of his brute strength). Heck, outside of using up too much chakra (usually through her seal release), Tsunade has been maintaining a youthful-looking genjutsu that, as far as I know, nobody was able to see through for decades straight. That alone must require extremely good chakra control very few can muster.

 

Yeah:

1.) Her position was basically similar to Vice Presidents taking over the assassination / death of the President. Never easy to take over the leadership during such times, especially if the President was very popular, like FDR or Kennedy were. Both Presidents also being at the forefront of a war/conflict too, so that only added a lot more weight onto that Vice President's shoulders, so the fact that she was able to get out that huge funk of hers, take the position, and keep things from falling apart in such a short time really says something about her. Just taking the position, due to her pedigree as Hashirama's granddaughter and one of the Sannin, was probably enough to really boost Konoha's morale.


2.) The important thing is that she protected the people of Konoha through the widespread use of her seal (which resulted in her coma afterward). The village itself is just a bunch of buildings that can be rebuilt/restored over time. (As Yamato had to learn the hard way with his constant Mokuton use to build houses, lol.)


3.) I'd say the biggest mistakes she made were...

A.) As mentioned, being too soft on Sasuke (due to her emotional connection to Naruto most likely) which, to others, could be easily misconstrued as more Uchiha favoritism given if it were almost anyone else who did what Sasuke did, they would be immediately marked as a missing-nin - what to do with them would depend on their rank and/or what exactly they did and whatnot. IIRC, Ay mentioned his suspicions about why Konoha never marked Sasuke as a missing-nin yet.

B.) Initially letting herself be pushed around by the Elders too much before finally telling them off shortly before Pein's attack.

C.) Not knocking the stupid childish Sasuke crush out of Sakura (for good this time) after the war and teaching her reality again.

Well said and she probably would have taken Sasuke's ninja license away after healing him and seeing how unstable he is. Hell Nick Fury would have done something about Sasuke quicker and more effectively too. That A,B,C example are true especially C with Sakura since she would told her that when taking her on as a student. It seems like the Elders really ran the village instead of Tsunade til Pein's attack. Example A is so true with everyone favoring the Uchiha. And really no one else could have killed Itachi it had to be Sasuke seriously and no one wanted to kill Sasuke after he attacked Bee, he should have killed the moment he left the village. The more you think about this and how stupid everyone in the series was thanks to bad writing the more you want the Naruto universe to be destroyed. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

I disagree. The real downside is her not showcasing as strong or doing something worth mentioning. I can't count the beat down on Orochimaru since it was before her Hokage days, so after that, it's no show for her. I think people were more forgiving with Hiruzen because he had that "less is more" going on. That is until he was revived and well, it should have remained less.

That said I can't say she's the worst. Worst in showing off I guess, but in stance/position, she's not the worst.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Statement: If Hinata did die in Pain Arc with no resurrection at all, she would have been considered as a good character because not only she didn't overstay her welcome, but she at least has a closure by confessing her love and die in the process, with the mindset of "She at least accomplish her character."

Agree or disagree?

[rocci]

No, just because she die in pein arc doesn't make her a good character. it's a shallow reason just like how nh think she's a great female character just because she's a waifu archetype, big boob, naruto worship, and lack of appearance.

So I disagree.
She's just an okay character imo, just overated by her fan.

[Sunora]

She would be considered a 'Good Character' if she died during part one, but in part two no. Hinata had no real development during the whole run of part two, not with her teammates and certainly not with her clan. She just stood in the background like a shadow. So to me, if she did die in the Pain Arc confessing her feeling, with no resurrection, I would consider it semi-emotional only because of three reasons the confession, her dying in front of Naruto, and her teammate's reaction. But I still would not consider her a good character. I would only think of her as a bland one, that needed to help move the plot along for Naruto's emotional development.


So all in all I disagree.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

I wouldn't say she would be a good character but I wouldn't hate her as much if she did die at the Pain arc.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Statement: If Hinata did die in Pain Arc with no resurrection at all, she would have been considered as a good character because not only she didn't overstay her welcome, but she at least has a closure by confessing her love and die in the process, with the mindset of "She at least accomplish her character."

Agree or disagree?

Disagree.

Hinata would still completely lack any meaningful development both individually and any development that would make her confession truly mean anything outside of, like it is now, her own selfishness. The ironic thing being that, if that confession was all it took to "accomplish her character", and that merely confessing, but not knowing Naruto's response to said confession, is "closure", it would only reinforce what we've been saying this whole time - that she never had any (good) character and what little "character" she did have was nothing but a Naruto obsession where only her feelings on the subject mattered and not Naruto's.

She may not have overstayed her welcome then, but it doesn't make what time she was there enjoyable either, lol.

[Nostradamus]

Statement: If Hinata did die in Pain Arc with no resurrection at all, she would have been considered as a good character because not only she didn't overstay her welcome, but she at least has a closure by confessing her love and die in the process, with the mindset of "She at least accomplish her character."

Agree or disagree?

Disagree because in order to make her a good character, one must first make her a character.

[Bail o' Lies]

Statement: If Hinata did die in Pain Arc with no resurrection at all,would she  have been considered as a good character because not only she didn't overstay her welcome, but she at least has a closure by confessing her love and die in the process, with the mindset of "She at least accomplish her character."

Agree or disagree?

If she did. She would have been put on a pedestal by her fans. They be saying "if Hinata had lived Naruto would've fallen in love with her and married her just for that act." Everyone else, well they wouldn't have reason to hate her because she was gone long before the ending and hopefully they would stop talking about the pairing like it was always gonna happen. So it would have been good for her popularity in the long run, for her character....better her then Neji.

 

Neji dying was a tragedy because he could not escape his fate of dying for the main branch like his father. This is despite the fact that his story is suppose to be about him finally being able to free the side branch from their fate of being slaves who die for the main branch. And then they used his death as the justification of nH happening. Hinata, people hoped her story would be her slowly becoming a confident woman...AHAHAHAHA Like her fans would allow her to do that. So yeah, dying for her man would have been better, but that doesn't mean she is a good character.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 11 June 2016 - 06:38 AM.

[Catra]

for the hokage one I'd like to say its mostly of her being handled. but considering naruto's now the hokage i'd consider him the worst. as for tsunade she did what she was good at; being a doctor. it was indeed something different.

[rocci]

Disagree because in order to make her a good character, one must first make her a character.

She's a character even if she's irrelevant and overate by her fan.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I was thinking long about this statement. I actually got this idea from an old video that said this sort of. I mean it occured after she did the sacrifice. So I thought to myself, "What if she did die and stay dead after Pain struck her?" Because at times, a character needs to end somewhere before he/she loses value. Like in War Arc, it was nuisance and annoying since that was majority of her mindset, more so than anything else, including when she first arrive to where Naruto is at.

That being said I still disagree. The problem is that her character had something more than just being love interest target, but it was clear Kishi really have nothing else in mind to work with. It was like "let it happen in the background." But my guess is that because of fans' demand or whoever, he put her in the spotlight, only to focus on love and nothing else. Even in war arc, they just shoehorned the Hyuuga Clan being "cleansed" but that's more for Neji since that was his backstory.

So when Hinata went in and "died," at best, she would have been "Ok." Even so, that would be generous. I mean she has a team and family, so dismissing them in her farewell supposedly seem rather selfish. Plus, similar to Neji, she hasn't appear much, so it's like "oh no too bad" more so than Frollo's "No!" So I disagree.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Statement: Hagoromo and his family tree should have remain a legend than a reveal in physical and present form. It's more "interesting" than actually meeting them.

Agree or disagree?