1196 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, stepping out today. I admit, I need to clear my mind from all of this. Lol.

[James S Cassidy]

Okay, so I want to type here what I had figured out about what I believe is why people dislike the way kaguya ended or should I correctly say why the entire fight was underwhelming from the start. Me and 4life had a long discussion about this last night and I think I truly understand is. The ending to this fight is not the problem.

There was no real struggle.

Now when we say "struggle" we usually mean in one of three things: Man vs Man (Or person vs person if you prefer that way), Man vs Self (An inner struggle of one's own morals), or Man vs Nature (or the natural elements like animals and such.) With the Kaguya fight, it was man vs man and that was basically it. In most other Naruto fights, or should I say the most important ones at least, the fights are more complicated. Usually the best fights are not just man vs man or a power struggle, but also a person fights themselves and their own morals too. Look at the Obito fight where it was not just a struggle of power and control, but also of one's own beliefs. Even the Madara fight has someone more than just a power struggle.

The Kaguya fight, however, didn't have any of that because we didn't know what Kaguya's moral or thought process was. She behaved more like a power hungry dictator trying to take over the world. (M. Bison: OF COURSE!!) In the world of Naruto, considering how complicated people's motives are, that is pretty shallow and underwhelming. We also really didn't know anything about Kaguya and her personality by nature. We don't know why she cried over her two kids. We don't know any of the story at all about her. We don't know how hard it has been for this woman and the entire history isn't fleshed out enough. Perhaps if we got more of the actual events instead of just Black Zetsu giving the cheap cliff notes, maybe we could have had a better connection with Kaguya and the fight would have been more intense. In truth, she was kind of flat or one dimensional. Did she love her kids and felt betrayed? Was she a loving mother that just got corrupted by power and a part of her actually regrets this? We don't know. How interesting it would have been if a part of her wanted to be defeated because she felt her true self died a long time ago?

I thought it was because the fight didn't have enough flair as many have said that the most powerful person in the world didn't use all that much power, but I realized that's not it at all. (I even joked here with 4life and said you all wanted the Micheal Bay version with explosions and such because despite how many hate Micheal Bay films with no plot, the action scenes are quite entertaining.)

We saw the god complex side of her, but there was no human side to bring her down to earth. What happens when you give a regular human god-like powers? She didn't always have that power. You didn't have to save her life and keep her alive at a the end though. You didn't need to redeem her either. You just needed to show the human side of her and maybe how her powers corrupted her and she gained a god-complex. Some might agree with this...some might not, but I believe this is one way the fight could have been better. I truly believe the ending was not the problem. In fact, I love the ending and believe that ending was actually a very good way to defeat her especially with the entire Team 7 in collaboration. Yeah, it needed Naruto and Sasuke to seal her, but in a way even if Sakura was not part of the sealing process, she was still needed to provide the trinity force to truly get Kaguya.

 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 01 September 2014 - 12:14 PM.

[ioria]

It was way too easy.. I guess it's not over yet.

[soraandven]

It was way too easy.. I guess it's not over yet.

yeah there's more to it

[soraandven]

It was way too easy.. I guess it's not over yet.

besides madara is flesh now so they gotta kill him again

[ioria]

I don't think Madara could be be the issue.. more like BZ "hidden" inside him.. ?

Actually, I would be pleased to have this arc closed, but in a nicer way

Edited by ioria, 31 August 2014 - 08:11 PM.

[K9ofChaos]

I wonder what the psychological fallout from undoing the Infinite Tsukuyomi will be like, if there is one at all. Surely the act of having everything you could ever want suddenly taken away from you only to find out that none of that ever happened can take a toll on one's psyche, depending on the type of person they are, right?

 

Eh, whatever.

[T XD]

I wonder what the psychological fallout from undoing the Infinite Tsukuyomi will be like, if there is one at all. Surely the act of having everything you could ever want suddenly taken away from you only to find out that none of that ever happened can take a toll on one's psyche, depending on the type of person they are, right?

 

Eh, whatever.

Yeah, that could happen in real life with some. But, in a manga, the most can happen is a few panels at max of shock and/or sadness...

Edited by T XD, 31 August 2014 - 09:39 PM.

[elmas]

Can people face the reality?They were dreaming about their deepest desires but suddenly the dream ended.They'll feel disappointed and broken hearted.I feel bad for them...

[soraandven]

Yeah, that could happen in real life with some. But, in a manga, the most can happen is a few panels at max of shock and/or sadness...

i bet i know how hinata will react lol

[elmas]

i bet i know how hinata will react lol

Lol.It's predictable.

[Khaleesi]

All of us when we see NH or SS fanart...

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Okay, so I want to type here what I had figured out about what I believe is why people dislike the way kaguya ended or should I correctly say why the entire fight was underwhelming from the start. Me and 4life had a long discussion about this last night and I think I truly understand is. The ending to this fight is not the problem.

There was no real struggle.

Now when we say struggle usually the struggle in one of three things: Man vs Man (Or person vs person if you prefer that way), Man vs Self (An inner struggle of one's own morals), or Man vs Nature (or the natural elements like animals and such.) With the Kaguya fight, it was man vs man and there was a struggle of this kind, but in most other Naruto fights the fights are more complicated. Usually the best fights are not just man vs man or a power struggle, but also a person fights themselves and their morals too. Look at the Obito fight where it was not just a struggle of power and control, but also of one's own beliefs. Even the Madara fight has someone more than just a power struggle.

The Kaguya fight, however, didn't have any of that because we didn't know what Kaguya's moral or thought process was. She behaved more like a power hungry dictator trying to take over the world. (M. Bison: OF COURSE!!) In the world of Naruto, considering how complicated people's motives are, that is pretty shallow and underwhelming. We also really didn't know anything about Kaguya and her personality by nature. We don't know why she cried over her two kids. We don't know any of the story at all about her. We don't know how hard it has been for this woman and the entire history isn't fleshed out enough. Perhaps if we got more of actual events instead of just Black Zetsu giving the cheap cliff notes, maybe we could have had a better connection with Kaguya and the fight would have been more intense. She was kind of flat. Did she love her kids and felt betrayed? Was she a loving mother that just got corrupted by power and a part of her actually regrets this? We don't know. How interesting it would have been if a part of her wanted to be defeated because she felt her true self died a long time ago?

It would already been bad if she was going to be redeemed when you said "there's no real struggle" you're correct, there wasnt neither on physical level or physicological level, she played hide and seek with Naruto and was OP due to her powerups, but she didnt do any of that in fact on her feats alone she was weaker than Madara, Naruto hold his ground against her with only half of the power of SO6P, her character powerups demanded an epic fight that they would win in the end wiht a great strategy, but no she was nerfed in the end, wasnt able to teleport because of "amateratsu" lol, didnt used her truth seeking ball on Sakura neither on naruto, could not distinguish between the real Naruto and his kagebushins, despite being able to sense the bijuu's chakra within Naruto.
Kishimoto trolled this villain, it felt like he was tired and wanted to end this fast.
To summarize up, a horsekitten ending for a horsekitten arc.

War Arc - 2/10. worst arc on Naruto ever.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 31 August 2014 - 10:33 PM.

[only Naruto]

Okay, so I want to type here what I had figured out about what I believe is why people dislike the way kaguya ended or should I correctly say why the entire fight was underwhelming from the start. Me and 4life had a long discussion about this last night and I think I truly understand is. The ending to this fight is not the problem.

There was no real struggle.

Now when we say struggle usually the struggle in one of three things: Man vs Man (Or person vs person if you prefer that way), Man vs Self (An inner struggle of one's own morals), or Man vs Nature (or the natural elements like animals and such.) With the Kaguya fight, it was man vs man and there was a struggle of this kind, but in most other Naruto fights the fights are more complicated. Usually the best fights are not just man vs man or a power struggle, but also a person fights themselves and their morals too. Look at the Obito fight where it was not just a struggle of power and control, but also of one's own beliefs. Even the Madara fight has someone more than just a power struggle.

The Kaguya fight, however, didn't have any of that because we didn't know what Kaguya's moral or thought process was. She behaved more like a power hungry dictator trying to take over the world. (M. Bison: OF COURSE!!) In the world of Naruto, considering how complicated people's motives are, that is pretty shallow and underwhelming. We also really didn't know anything about Kaguya and her personality by nature. We don't know why she cried over her two kids. We don't know any of the story at all about her. We don't know how hard it has been for this woman and the entire history isn't fleshed out enough. Perhaps if we got more of actual events instead of just Black Zetsu giving the cheap cliff notes, maybe we could have had a better connection with Kaguya and the fight would have been more intense. She was kind of flat. Did she love her kids and felt betrayed? Was she a loving mother that just got corrupted by power and a part of her actually regrets this? We don't know. How interesting it would have been if a part of her wanted to be defeated because she felt her true self died a long time ago?

I thought it was because the fight didn't have enough flair as many have said that the most powerful person in the world didn't use all that much power. (I joked here and said you all wanted the Micheal Bay version with explosions and such because despite how many hate Micheal Bay films with no plot, the action scenes are quite entertaining.)

We saw the god complex side of her, but there was no human side to bring her down to earth. What happens when you give a regular human god-like powers. You didn't have to save her life and keep her alive at a the end. You just needed to show the human side of her to show how her power corrupted her and she gained a god-complex. Some might agree with this...some might not, but I believe this is one way the fight could have been better. I truly believe the ending was not the problem. In fact, I love the ending and believe that ending was actually a very good way to defeat her especially with the entire Team 7 in collaboration. Yeah, it needed Naruto and Sasuke to seal her, but in a way even if Sakura was not part of the sealing process, she was still needed to provide the trinity force to truly get Kaguya.

 

nice analyse james. . if kishi showed to us kaguyas story. i agree the fight would have been much much  better . . but why didnt he do that .its either he wanted to finish the manga as fast as possible even if it effects the story. or he has a twist and its not over yet .we ll wait and see.

 

 

if the fight ended last chapter / i have to say i wish that nagato/pain was the last villain. . of this manga 

[TsukiChan ♥]

Can people face the reality?They were dreaming about their deepest desires but suddenly the dream ended.They'll feel disappointed and broken hearted.I feel bad for them...

Good thing you brought that up cause I forgot about everyone in their dreams lol

[elmas]

Good thing you brought that up cause I forgot about everyone in their dreams lol

Yeah.I feel bad for Tsunade actually.  Gaara has friends now,Shika is with Temari again,TenTen yeah,Mei she's hot but spinster lol,Kiba,Shino,Ino and .....Hinata I pity her  .

[BlazingDynamo]

i bet i know how hinata will react lol

Hinata would feel so bad but at the same time she will realize that she must focus on bigger and things

[Inferno180]

Guess I have a question, because of that event last week with the last chapter, isnt the release for the stuff we see now shifted like no longer on Wednesday?

[elmas]

Guess I have a question, because of that event last week with the last chapter, isnt the release for the stuff we see now shifted like no longer on Wednesday?

I don't know tbh but I think it will release on Wednesday again .

[Hiraishin]

 
Something like this is possible IMO.
To me Hagoromo is neither good neither bad. I think he just wants to bring order and peace.
And I think it's possible he would want to take the bijuus back since humans showed they are unable to behave with them.

Order and peace sounds good. where would he take them back to though? The after life?