749 replies to this topic

[Dkey]

That and Naruto is reaching to his limit, so perhaps a break since he will be exhausted. Though it does seem Kishi is making everyone taken out of action so the focus will be on Team 7. Like if the next mission or whatever is about stopping Sasuke, the only one left to do the job is Team 7 and few fodders. I think Juubi's attack is one way to make everyone out of picture.

Here is the confusing part. Sasuke and Naruto meet they talk and then at some point they go separate ways. When they go separate ways we will know about this last bit of drama between them.

Now if Naruto will be Hokage, and if we are to look at his skills he already surpassed Kakashi thou the latter has more experience as a leader. So Kakashi is a pragmatic leader but because of Obito he feels that he isn't adequate to be one, let's see if this changes after the battle. While Naruto is an idealist.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Here is the confusing part. Sasuke and Naruto meet they talk and then at some point they go separate ways. When they go separate ways we will know about this last bit of drama between them.

Now if Naruto will be Hokage, and if we are to look at his skills he already surpassed Kakashi thou the latter has more experience as a leader. So Kakashi is a pragmatic leader but because of Obito he feels that he isn't adequate to be one, let's see if this changes after the battle. While Naruto is an idealist.

That does make it confusing. I know Naruto will decline the deal of being Hokage until he settle with Sasuke. So if Tsunade dies, Kakashi may just be a temp. Perhaps the next phase will be Naruto trying out to be a leadership. That will be a good development, since Tsunade may die and if he has to understand how to be a fellow leader, he must get some experience while pursuit Sasuke.

[KnS]

So don't worry about Kakashi KNS

Thanks for the pep talk, Don. I'll try not to worry, but I can't promise anything.

Kishimoto's general MO suggests he will live, but it wouldn't surprise me that even if Kakashi wins he ends up trapped. It would be a great chance to show self-sacrifice and what would be left for him to do? Lacking purpose hasn't kept him from reviving people before, but I imagine this fight will answer most of the remaining questions about Kakashi.

Watch the mask. I bet if it falls, he dies.

The idea of his mask falling signalling his death makes me shudder.

Like I said, I know it's assumed Kakashi will live, but sometimes I just don't know anymore. I mean, six months ago if someone had pitched a theory that all the Hokage would be revived, and with Orochimaru standing by, Sasuke would listen to the history of Konoha and then appear to suddenly turn away from revenge and destruction for the sake of Itachi's dream/sacrifice, that theory would have been shot down as unlikely / absurd / impossible too.

On the other hand, I'm rarely right about these kinds of theories, lol, and I don't expect that to change any time soon. So that's a point in Kakashi's favor right there.

I tend to agree. Kakashi is such a beloved character. And while that is not justification alone for keeping him alive, Naruto has already gone through the pain of losing his "mentor," Jiraiya. Does he need to lose another? I don't think the impact would be the same on Naruto's storyline. And I feel that there's a higher likelihood of Tsunade dying. (You know, older generation and all that.) So that would be heaping Kakashi's death on top of that...ugh.

That's true. I agree that Tsunade's death is more likely, and it would be overkill (pardon the expression) if Kakashi died as well. After all, Kishimoto isn't JK Rowling; he doesn't seem keen on a big bloodbath finale where the number of Good Guy deaths is harshly disproportionate to the number of Bad Guy deaths. Yes, I'm still bitter.

Edited by KnS, 28 April 2013 - 05:23 AM.

[Nate River]

Thanks for the pep talk, Don. I'll try not to worry, but I can't promise anything.


The idea of his mask falling signalling his death makes me shudder.

Like I said, I know it's assumed Kakashi will live, but sometimes I just don't know anymore. I mean, six months ago if someone had pitched a theory that all the Hokage would be revived, and with Orochimaru standing by, Sasuke would listen to the history of Konoha and then appear to suddenly turn away from revenge and destruction for the sake of Itachi's dream/sacrifice, that theory would have been shot down as unlikely / absurd / impossible too.

On the other hand, I'm rarely right about these kinds of theories, lol, and I don't expect that to change any time soon. So that's a point in Kakashi's favor right there.

Ataksuki was where I got the idea, but it's more than that. What he looks like isn't important, but finally showing it after their obligatory monologue would be like the author saying there is nothing left to say, we now know all his secrets and as a character he's run his course. Even just leaving the battlefield like that felt ominous.

On the other hand, there is no obvious plot element that would be satisfied by him dying. He's lost people close to him. Usually, Kishimoto has Naruto go through things like this to force Naruto into seeing his opponents point of view, but Neji already died for that. Originally, I thought Obito was being used in this manner as well. Moreover, the whole thing just flops with Obito in a way it hasn't with others because of the method Obito and the basic fact that it requires Naruto to turn the world over to the guy who is inflicting pain on it. I don't think he needs to understand Obito to effectively call him out. Obito is so stained with blood that its really hard to take anything he says with a straight face.

[KnS]

Ataksuki was where I got the idea, but it's more than that. What he looks like isn't important, but finally showing it after their obligatory monologue would be like the author saying there is nothing left to say, we now know all his secrets and as a character he's run his course. Even just leaving the battlefield like that felt ominous.

I agree. We can pretty much imagine Kakashi's face, considering we saw his father's face clearly and they supposedly look a lot alike. But it would be heavily symbolic if Kakashi lost his mask during this upcoming encounter with Obito. Whether he dies or not, finally seeing his face would be the visual complement to exposing the last pieces of the Kakashi puzzle.

Who knows -- maybe he has a "I Rin" tattoo on his face.....

On the other hand, there is no obvious plot element that would be satisfied by him dying. He's lost people close to him. Usually, Kishimoto has Naruto go through things like this to force Naruto into seeing his opponents point of view, but Neji already died for that. Originally, I thought Obito was being used in this manner as well. Moreover, the whole thing just flops with Obito in a way it hasn't with others because of the method Obito and the basic fact that it requires Naruto to turn the world over to the guy who is inflicting pain on it. I don't think he needs to understand Obito to effectively call him out. Obito is so stained with blood that its really hard to take anything he says with a straight face.

As always, it depends on what Kishimoto has in mind. I agree that Naruto has already lost people, and as tricksie pointed out Tsunade's death makes more sense. Theoretically the lesson has been learned, but has it really? Naruto doesn't seem to have grasped the point Obito is trying to make -- whatever that is. That's why I question if there couldn't be more Obito-related loss in store for Naruto.

Maybe I just got too sold on the possibility that Obito would realize that Sakura is Naruto's Rin. Kakashi's death -- or at least the serious threat of his death -- would impact both Naruto and Sakura in a way that might make their relationship more obvious and trigger something for Obito. Or he already knows (thanks to his spying) and that's what he's driving at. I don't know.

Like you said, the way Kakashi left the battlefield and essentially transferred leadership to Naruto was ominous. I've always had a nagging feeling about the other dimension, and about Kamui itself -- about if it might not end up that Kakashi and Obito to somehow cancel each other out and one or both remain stuck in the other dimension. There's been some groundwork for something like that, but it's not exactly clear if it's technically possible.

Yeah, the technical rules to how the Sharingan works aren't clear. Where have I heard that before?

[StrikerTheNoble]

I agree. We can pretty much imagine Kakashi's face, considering we saw his father's face clearly and they supposedly look a lot alike. But it would be heavily symbolic if Kakashi lost his mask during this upcoming encounter with Obito. Whether he dies or not, finally seeing his face would be the visual complement to exposing the last pieces of the Kakashi puzzle.

Who knows -- maybe he has a "I Rin" tattoo on his face.....



As always, it depends on what Kishimoto has in mind. I agree that Naruto has already lost people, and as tricksie pointed out Tsunade's death makes more sense. Theoretically the lesson has been learned, but has it really? Naruto doesn't seem to have grasped the point Obito is trying to make -- whatever that is. That's why I question if there couldn't be more Obito-related loss in store for Naruto.

Maybe I just got too sold on the possibility that Obito would realize that Sakura is Naruto's Rin. Kakashi's death -- or at least the serious threat of his death -- would impact both Naruto and Sakura in a way that might make their relationship more obvious and trigger something for Obito. Or he already knows (thanks to his spying) and that's what he's driving at. I don't know.

Like you said, the way Kakashi left the battlefield and essentially transferred leadership to Naruto was ominous. I've always had a nagging feeling about the other dimension, and about Kamui itself -- about if it might not end up that Kakashi and Obito to somehow cancel each other out and one or both remain stuck in the other dimension. There's been some groundwork for something like that, but it's not exactly clear if it's technically possible.

Yeah, the technical rules to how the Sharingan works aren't clear. Where have I heard that before?

This is actually a great point. When the manga ends kishi should write a tecnhical manual for the sharingan: What it does, how it does and when it stops doing it. Because I really want to know.

[Beastbomb]

Apoligize for being off topic, but does the next chapter come out this week or next. I've been really busy for the past month and have forgotten when golden week ends.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Apoligize for being off topic, but does the next chapter come out this week or next. I've been really busy for the past month and have forgotten when golden week ends.

No chapter this week.

[Beastbomb]

Okay, thank you.

[jworks]

Apoligize for being off topic, but does the next chapter come out this week or next. I've been really busy for the past month and have forgotten when golden week ends.

hah I hadn't known it was golden week until I was in the Dallas airport on Saturday and couldn't figure out why there where SOOO many Japanese people around haha. Finally it dawned on me the whole country is on holiday.

[Codus N]

Kakashi's conflict with Tobi will involve a considerable amount of emotional/psychological tribulation tribulation as it will physically. The issue over why Kakashi decided to kill Rin is something that needs to be resolved soon though admittedly I presumed that Naruto would play a role in the final fight with Tobi as Kishi has been continually emphasizing the parallelism between Tobi and Naruto alongside their conflict of ideologies. Naruto being able to understand what the catalyst was for Tobi's shift in personality would provide some degree of resolution not just to their relationship but the one with Kakashi as well since Naruto would now be fully aware of his teacher's past which would assist in strengthening the bond that they share.

Alternatively I am very much dedicated to seeing what comes next on the main battlefield. I want to know if Sakura will be making any significant contributions to this fight or to Naruto.

Agreed. This will be even more of a psychological battle than Naruto vs Pain was. That's why this is the part of the story that I'm looking forward to most (and the only thing keeping me glued to the series for now).

Ah, you're so right. I forgot Black Zetsu! I bet he'll be back for sure.

Y'know what?? I was actually hoping that the Alliance would have a breather, then have Minato explain the whole story. Once he's finished story-telling about Kakashi, they decide to ET Rin using Black Zetsu without Minato or Kakashi's knowledge. I'd really like to see how Rin would feel seeing her boys fall so low. To the point they're dragging the whole world into their own personal mess.

Hospital scene 2.0 anyone??

I agree. We can pretty much imagine Kakashi's face, considering we saw his father's face clearly and they supposedly look a lot alike. But it would be heavily symbolic if Kakashi lost his mask during this upcoming encounter with Obito. Whether he dies or not, finally seeing his face would be the visual complement to exposing the last pieces of the Kakashi puzzle.

Who knows -- maybe he has a "I Rin" tattoo on his face.....



As always, it depends on what Kishimoto has in mind. I agree that Naruto has already lost people, and as tricksie pointed out Tsunade's death makes more sense. Theoretically the lesson has been learned, but has it really? Naruto doesn't seem to have grasped the point Obito is trying to make -- whatever that is. That's why I question if there couldn't be more Obito-related loss in store for Naruto.

Maybe I just got too sold on the possibility that Obito would realize that Sakura is Naruto's Rin. Kakashi's death -- or at least the serious threat of his death -- would impact both Naruto and Sakura in a way that might make their relationship more obvious and trigger something for Obito. Or he already knows (thanks to his spying) and that's what he's driving at. I don't know.

Like you said, the way Kakashi left the battlefield and essentially transferred leadership to Naruto was ominous. I've always had a nagging feeling about the other dimension, and about Kamui itself -- about if it might not end up that Kakashi and Obito to somehow cancel each other out and one or both remain stuck in the other dimension. There's been some groundwork for something like that, but it's not exactly clear if it's technically possible.

I think we better have some ambulances and paramedics ready on standby. Even the most hardcore fangirls can't take that amount of fanservice.

Honestly, I'm in agreement with you about Kamui. I've toyed with the idea of them overusing their sharingan to the point they can't get out of there anymore.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Honestly, I'm in agreement with you about Kamui. I've toyed with the idea of them overusing their sharingan to the point they can't get out of there anymore.

Most Yaoi ending for Kakashi is impossible

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 30 April 2013 - 02:48 PM.

[Nate River]

Y'know what?? I was actually hoping that the Alliance would have a breather, then have Minato explain the whole story. Once he's finished story-telling about Kakashi, they decide to ET Rin using Black Zetsu without Minato or Kakashi's knowledge. I'd really like to see how Rin would feel seeing her boys fall so low. To the point they're dragging the whole world into their own personal mess.

Hospital scene 2.0 anyone??

Boys? Obito is the one who fell. Kakashi, I think could only really be faulted for failing to let go unless Kishimoto is going to have Kakashi kill her in cold blood or was primary the one at fault. I don't see that happening. It's either going to tragic the whole way around (with nor primary malfactorer (other than the mooks) (my expectation) or Rin's going to share more of the fault. I don't see Kishimoto just dumping on Kakashi.

Besides, Kakashi hasn't pulled anyone into anything. It's ALL Obito.

[KnS]

Sorry, I'm full of questions today....

I think we better have some ambulances and paramedics ready on standby. Even the most hardcore fangirls can't take that amount of fanservice.

How does a symbolic demasking -- that serves as a visual metaphor for the full revelation of Kakashi's past -- constitute fan service?

Most Yaoi ending for Kakashi is impossible

What does the concept of Kakashi and Obito becoming trapped in the other dimension have to do with yaoi?

Boys? Obito is the one who fell. Kakashi, I think could only really be faulted for failing to let go unless Kishimoto is going to have Kakashi kill her in cold blood or was primary the one at fault. I don't see that happening. It's either going to tragic the whole way around (with nor primary malfactorer (other than the mooks) (my expectation) or Rin's going to share more of the fault. I don't see Kishimoto just dumping on Kakashi.

Besides, Kakashi hasn't pulled anyone into anything. It's ALL Obito.

Definitely agree with the bolded. But then... I'm a Kakashi fan, not an Obito fan....

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

What does the concept of Kakashi and Obito becoming trapped in the other dimension have to do with yaoi?

[KnS]

For me this is a non sequitur and doesn't answer the question. Sorry.

[T XD]

Boys? Obito is the one who fell. Kakashi, I think could only really be faulted for failing to let go unless Kishimoto is going to have Kakashi kill her in cold blood or was primary the one at fault. I don't see that happening. It's either going to tragic the whole way around (with nor primary malfactorer (other than the mooks) (my expectation) or Rin's going to share more of the fault. I don't see Kishimoto just dumping on Kakashi.

Besides, Kakashi hasn't pulled anyone into anything. It's ALL Obito.

I see that Kakashi has a role in falling. Actually, that's what make him regret for not being able to protect his friends. Kakashi before obito dying, cares about his friends but he was thinking about himself most of the times much like Sasuke. Till Obito " died ", he confessed that he's just thinking about himself, and can let Rin die if he was in danger and escape alone without going to think to save Rin too.

After Obito died, he still couldn't protect Rin. Kakashi is still the same, but he changed himself after Obito died.

So, I think that Kakashi before Obito dying had indirectly a role in this mess. However, I think that Kakashi will tell what happened exactly to Rin, and he will try to talk to Obito about it. Though, there's a fight coming most probably.

Edited by T XD, 01 May 2013 - 11:39 AM.

[Nate River]

I see that Kakashi has a role in falling. Actually, that's what make him regret for not being able to protect his friends. Kakashi before obito dying, cares about his friends but he was thinking about himself most of the times much like Sasuke. Till Obito " died ", he confessed that he's just thinking about himself, and can let Rin die if he was in danger and escape alone without going to think to save Rin too.

After Obito died, he still couldn't protect Rin. Kakashi is still the same, but he changed himself after Obito died.

So, I think that Kakashi before Obito dying had indirectly a role in this mess. However, I think that Kakashi will tell what happened exactly to Rin, and he will try to talk to Obito about it. Though, there's a fight coming most probably.

There is a difference between failing and falling. Obito used to be a good guy and now he's not because of what he's done. Kakashi failing to protect his friends may mean he failed them, but it's not the same thing as falling from grace. It could be a bad thing, but Kakashi hasn't suddenly sought immoral ends or committed immoral deeds because of it. He's not a villain for not having been able to do that.

And as you say, he changed after he thought Obito died and changed for the better. When Rin died, Obito changed for the worst. Obito fell. Kakashi did not.

I'm not a big Kakashi fan, but people seem way to willing to shift responsibility away from Obito whether patially or totally. Obito chose his path and he is responsibile for it. I think the Madara manipulation is overblown and that still doesn't excuse many of the actions taken in furtherance of that end. And he still chose it himself.

Even if Kakashi's actions led to that choice, the responsibility for making it is Obito's. He did not have to make it and he sure as hell did not have leave all those bodies in his wake.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

There is a difference between failing and falling. Obito used to be a good guy and now he's not because of what he's done. Kakashi failing to protect his friends may mean he failed them, but it's not the same thing as falling from grace. It could be a bad thing, but Kakashi hasn't suddenly sought immoral ends or committed immoral deeds because of it. He's not a villain for not having been able to do that.

And as you say, he changed after he thought Obito died and changed for the better. When Rin died, Obito changed for the worst. Obito fell. Kakashi did not.

I'm not a big Kakashi fan, but people seem way to willing to shift responsibility away from Obito whether patially or totally. Obito chose his path and he is responsibile for it. I think the Madara manipulation is overblown and that still doesn't excuse many of the actions taken in furtherance of that end. And he still chose it himself.

Even if Kakashi's actions led to that choice, the responsibility for making it is Obito's. He did not have to make it and he sure as hell did not have leave all those bodies in his wake.

Disagree here, Obito changed Kakashi when he said that people who abandon his friends are worse than trash, then after some struggle he really changes, Obito's death did not changed Kakashi, Obito changed Kakashi before this scene, they even cooperated each other and fought like friends, then he made Kakashi to promise that he would protect Rin, and he was going back to help him to do this, but then he ended seeing her death, it wasnt the reason that Kakashi killing her that make him went like this but the fact that he wasnt capable of holding his own promise, which Naruto also vowed to do this "protect Sakura-chan".
This is the reason why Naruto failed to redeem Obito you cant simply compare Neji's death to what Obito went though.

[Branden]

When Sasuke enters the battlefield it's very likely that both Naruto and Sakura will be there too.

The question I ask is simple, will Sakura still display romantic feelings towards Sasuke?
To that I ask a follow up question, what is Naruto going to do when he sees Sasuke?

And a final question, what is Sasuke going to do after the war (assuming he survives).