19964 replies to this topic

[GlucoseGlutton]

Okay, well this is just a theory of mine from my studies on Japanese culture as well as Chinese culture.

This is still in the works but here's a brief proposal:

NS and Japanese mythology theory --Click here to view--

Okay, okay... you ready?

Minato and Kushina are obviously a direct point to Susano'o and Kushinada. Minato's name is not Susano'o however, his name implies such. Minato is a port or harbor but Namikaze is waves and wind - Susano'o was God of storms and the sea (hint hint). Susano'o saved Kushinada from Yamato no Orochi and upon saving her was given her by her parents for marriage.
There are some differences but I think that has to do with the fact that the Uchiha's have Susano'o, Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu. But even still, Minato gained Kushina's love after saving her.
Naruto and Sakura could possibly have a connection to Ninigi and Konohanasakuyahime. (Hint hint with the name KonohanaSAKUYAhime in some tales it's KonohanaSAKURAhime.) Her symbol is the cherry blossom for short and fleeting life and she's a goddess of volcanoes too. Just stretching here but Sakura's been described as having a firey temper and to be explosive.
I can't make much a link for Naruto yet but he did receive a jewel from Tsunade - I don't recall him having a sword or a type of mirror but he was a heavenly kami and Naruto's been described as having a warm and bright persona.
Apparently the two met and there was an issue of distrust because of Konohanasakuyahime's early pregnancy that led Ninigi to think it may be another's. Throwing it out there but since Minato and Kushina weren't exact clones maybe Naruto and Sakura aren't supposed to be either. So in other words, what if instead of a pregnancy issue, the problem is Naruto being under the assumption that she loves another (Sasuke)...

I'm a mythology buff so would you believe me if this just came to me after looking into the story of these two? I made some connections between a lot of stuff from this series and Japanese/Chinese mythology.

Huh. I never considered the Susanoo myth in that way and I also didn't know NaruSaku had mythological connections! Thanks for sharing .. There's this one wonderful Sasukarin shipper on tumblr who related that myth to SasuKarin and it makes sense for that pairing too. Here's her explanation:

Kagura-Shinagan's Susanoo Mythology Theory --Click here to view--

Let’s talk about how much Kishimoto loves mythology (the Sannin are directly from legend), and how he very well might intend for SasuKarin to have a mythological parallel.

First of all, there’s the Summer Storm God (associated with lightning, just as Sasuke is), Susanoo no Mikoto. The “no Mikoto” part of his name calls to mind the fact that Sasuke’s mother’s name is Mikoto. He’s the god of the sea and storms, and of the Land of the Dead/”World of Darkness,” Yomi no Kuni (he traveled through it after being banished from heaven, which could serve as a metaphor for Sasuke’s desertion of Konoha and descent into darkness). His sister is Amaterasu, goddess of the sun, and his brother is Tsukoyomi, god of the moon. All three were born from Izanagi - Amaterasu from his left eye and Tsukoyomi from his right.

Susanoo had a sibling rivalry (as Sasuke did) with Amaterasu for which he was ultimately banned from Heaven.

While on earth, he met an old couple who had birthed eight daughters, seven of which had been devoured by the eight-headed serpent, Yamata-no-Orochi, who was now on his way to devour the eighth, Kushinada-hime - “Rice Paddy Princess.” In return for her hand in marriage, Susanoo slayed the serpent after getting him drunk. In the belly of the snake, Susanoo found his legendary sword, Kusanagi (which is the name of Sasuke’s sword as well).

Thus, not only does Yamato-no-Orochi bear resemblance to Orochimaru via the obvious snake connection, but also to the eight-tailed Hachibi. Sasuke (who is clearly connected to Susanoo) saved Karin from both - he slayed Orochimaru, thus ending her allegiance to Orochimaru (which according to the Databook, had only been so she could be close to him), and he saved her from the Hachibi.

Moreover, Karin and Sasuke probably met for a second time in the Land of Rice, where Orochimaru’s hideout was then located (around the time Karin’s village was massacred and Sasuke had already joined with Orochimaru - we know this because his presence is the only reason she stayed with Orochimaru) - this could be connected to Kushinada-hime’s name, “Rice Paddy Princess.” Also, one of the kanji in Karin’s name, Rin (燐), contains 米, which means “husked grains of rice.”

Sorry for going slightly off topic .

Edited by SugarJunkE, 14 December 2012 - 03:53 AM.

[{Jade~Rabbit}]

Huh. I never considered the Susanoo myth in that way.. There's this one wonderful Sasukarin shipper who related that myth to SasuKarin and it makes sense for that pairing too. Here's her explanation:

Kagura-Shinagan's Susanoo Mythology Theory --Click here to view--

Let’s talk about how much Kishimoto loves mythology (the Sannin are directly from legend), and how he very well might intend for SasuKarin to have a mythological parallel.

First of all, there’s the Summer Storm God (associated with lightning, just as Sasuke is), Susanoo no Mikoto. The “no Mikoto” part of his name calls to mind the fact that Sasuke’s mother’s name is Mikoto. He’s the god of the sea and storms, and of the Land of the Dead/”World of Darkness,” Yomi no Kuni (he traveled through it after being banished from heaven, which could serve as a metaphor for Sasuke’s desertion of Konoha and descent into darkness). His sister is Amaterasu, goddess of the sun, and his brother is Tsukoyomi, god of the moon. All three were born from Izanagi - Amaterasu from his left eye and Tsukoyomi from his right.

Susanoo had a sibling rivalry (as Sasuke did) with Amaterasu for which he was ultimately banned from Heaven.

While on earth, he met an old couple who had birthed eight daughters, seven of which had been devoured by the eight-headed serpent, Yamata-no-Orochi, who was now on his way to devour the eighth, Kushinada-hime - “Rice Paddy Princess.” In return for her hand in marriage, Susanoo slayed the serpent after getting him drunk. In the belly of the snake, Susanoo found his legendary sword, Kusanagi (which is the name of Sasuke’s sword as well).

Thus, not only does Yamato-no-Orochi bear resemblance to Orochimaru via the obvious snake connection, but also to the eight-tailed Hachibi. Sasuke (who is clearly connected to Susanoo) saved Karin from both - he slayed Orochimaru, thus ending her allegiance to Orochimaru (which according to the Databook, had only been so she could be close to him), and he saved her from the Hachibi.

Moreover, Karin and Sasuke probably met for a second time in the Land of Rice, where Orochimaru’s hideout was then located (around the time Karin’s village was massacred and Sasuke had already joined with Orochimaru - we know this because his presence is the only reason she stayed with Orochimaru) - this could be connected to Kushinada-hime’s name, “Rice Paddy Princess.” Also, one of the kanji in Karin’s name, Rin (燐), contains 米, which means “husked grains of rice.”

This is plausible but the difference is that Karin and Sasuke aren't a couple. She liked him for a period of time but nothing took off (though SasuKarin isn't too bad a match imo). Sasuke could have been compared to Susano'o just like Hinata could've been Kushinada-hime too (Her name has rice patty and in some tales Kushinada-hime is spelled Kushinata-hime) but the reason why I wouldn't compare Hinata to Kushinada-hime is because of her having closer references to Chinese mythology (I could elaborate on Hinata in Chinese mythology but I'll save that for another time) AND because Hinata is not from a foreign land (in Naruto or Sasuke's case, she's stayed in Konoha).

Sasuke on the other hand is complicated too. He could be linked to Susano'o but there's more of a solid mutual connection with Minato and Kushina than with Sasuke and anyone.

Does this make sense?

[GlucoseGlutton]

This is plausible but the difference is that Karin and Sasuke aren't a couple. She liked him for a period of time but nothing took off (though SasuKarin isn't too bad a match imo). Sasuke could have been compared to Susano'o just like Hinata could've been Kushinada-hime too (Her name has rice patty and in some tales Kushinada-hime is spelled Kushinata-hime) but the reason why I wouldn't compare Hinata to Kushinada-hime is because of her having closer references to Chinese mythology (I could elaborate on Hinata in Chinese mythology but I'll save that for another time) AND because Hinata is not from a foreign land (in Naruto or Sasuke's case, she's stayed in Konoha).

Sasuke on the other hand is complicated too. He could be linked to Susano'o but there's more of a solid mutual connection with Minato and Kushina than with Sasuke and anyone.

Does this make sense?

Yeah it does though at times the SasuKarin shipper in me wishes they were a couple . Oooo I can't wait I'd love to hear about Hinata's connection to Chinese mythology, it's always interesting when authors/writers base parts of their story on mythology and legends .

Edited by SugarJunkE, 14 December 2012 - 07:13 AM.

[Branden]

ofcourse she is the heroine!!! i am just amazed why kishi hasnt shown devlopments with her though she has devloped from the 1st part. now she is a good ninja. but she needs more powerup and personality yes feeling towards naruto. kishi has to show that some how. i am now confused. if i would repeat sushi. she said what if the manga ended with no pairing. sakura ll end up like tsunade and naruto like jiraya and sasuke like orochimaru. man that ll be really bad.

The fact that Hinata and Sakura are put on the same level sometimes is what makes me really disappointed in Kishi. Even I have to admit Sakura really hasn't done much for Heroine. The final chance for her to shine as heroine is now, there is no time left. That said she still hasnt had any powerups or training so she's still the same girl who fought Sasori, maybe a bit more experienced though. Honestly this is going to take a good idea to repair, but I think the damage is done.

Sakura hasn't been given the development she needs and I doubt anything less then an arc where she plays a key role will fix it. But is there time for that? I dont think there is.

[narulsaku]

agree with braden. but kisi can give he some powerups during this war. imagine if madara powers up and all are injured. at that time. sakura can show up her medic abillities. or like hinata in pein arc. she can fight to protect alone with some new powers. ummm no thats not gonna work. he should have done the devlopments before. then lets hope he ll devlop her in the fight agaist sasuke.

[Chucky-kun]

agree with braden. but kisi can give he some powerups during this war. imagine if madara powers up and all are injured. at that time. sakura can show up her medic abillities. or like hinata in pein arc. she can fight to protect alone with some new powers. ummm no thats not gonna work. he should have done the devlopments before. then lets hope he ll devlop her in the fight agaist sasuke.

Are you arguing with yourself?

[PhenixElite]

Yeah! That thread got really f**cked up.

[Zatheko]

Man I wish she could have some sort of last minute development, I really like sakura but man she needs to shine, what id give to see her pull of something great at the last second.

[PhenixElite]

Man I wish she could have some sort of last minute development, I really like sakura but man she needs to shine, what id give to see her pull of something great at the last second.

I see no reason for sakura to shine during the war. Enough time left after that.

[Jake]

Sakura is definitely the heroine.

Problem is, Kishi wasn't only bad at drawing girls (He admitted such in the first volume of Naruto I believe) but as we have seen, he's pretty bad at keeping them consistently important or 'powerful' throughout the story.

I feel like after writing for so long, Kishi just missed/forgot/ignored a lot of things he had laid out for her in favor of developing overpowered Sasuke.

+ Sakura was supposed to be an excellent candidate for genjutsu
= We haven't seen any 'excellent' or powerful genjutsu worth noting from her at all. Has he forgotten? Seems to me that he decided normal genjutsu is always a fail compared to the all mighty overpowered sharingan he created.

+ He has drawn Sakura with slugs just like he drew Naruto with frogs and Sasuke with snakes. When I saw that, there's no way that couldn't be some kind of foreshadowing.

Slug Sage Mode I wished --Click here to view--

= Instead of seeing Sakura getting a real power up or showing that she has abilities other than excellent healing skills and super strength, we get a bajillion Sasuke power ups and his annoying angst. Again, it seems like Kishi doesn't know how to follow up on anything.

Of course it was foreshadowing, it was foreshadowing that Sakura would be Tsunade's apprentice, also stuff like this doesn't hold much anymore because Sasuke no longer has the Snake contract or any of the snake based moves that Orochimaru taught him.

+ In that same image, Sasuke has a sword (Right now he has a sword he uses a lot), Naruto has a scroll (We saw him with said scroll when he returned in Sage mode) and Sakura has an axe
= Where is Kishi's follow up on her axe? It would be absolutely amazing if Sakura had her own personalized weapon. It would make her stick out more compared to other characters.

The scroll and the sword make since for Naruto and Sasuke because of their masters, Jirayia carried a scroll, and Orochimaru had a sword, the axe just sorta comes out of left field as Tsunade never used one.

[luffyq1]

The fact that Hinata and Sakura are put on the same level sometimes is what makes me really disappointed in Kishi. Even I have to admit Sakura really hasn't done much for Heroine. The final chance for her to shine as heroine is now, there is no time left. That said she still hasnt had any powerups or training so she's still the same girl who fought Sasori, maybe a bit more experienced though. Honestly this is going to take a good idea to repair, but I think the damage is done.

Sakura hasn't been given the development she needs and I doubt anything less then an arc where she plays a key role will fix it. But is there time for that? I dont think there is.

^This. This. And more of this!

I can say with confidence that if Sakura's character were to be handed over to anyone on this site who are dedicated fans of Sakura, I can assure you as of right now they can do a much better job on her character than Kishi. I never thought I'd say something like that years ago in the beginning of shippuden. While NS is nice, I care more about Sakura's character development than her development to solely push NS to be end game. I'm sorry, but I value Sakura's character other than that.

Edited by luffyq1, 14 December 2012 - 08:15 AM.

[narulsaku]

Are you arguing with yourself?

what make you think that?

[PhenixElite]

Why dont you guys open a new thread, calling it "why kishi is such a bad writer and has no plan what hes doing" instead of spaming this thread with this comments.

[kirabook]

It's not spamming. It's discussion and questioning why half the pairing we all support was neglected so much by the mangaka who created her. Don't exaggerate so much.

Edited by kirabook, 14 December 2012 - 08:49 AM.

[PhenixElite]

It's not spamming. It's discussion and questioning why half the pairing we all support was neglected so much by the mangaka who created her. Don't exaggerate so much.

Sorry but i dont see a discussion here. All i see is flaming kishimoto.

Also tell me an argument that prooves that sakura was neglected by kishi through the whole story. All i can see is that she got less screentime during the war arc, nothing less.

Edited by PhenixElite, 14 December 2012 - 09:08 AM.

[luffyq1]

Kishi's not into fan things at least I hope not.

Apparently, he is. While he may have played the SS & NH fandom in Rtn, he still used them as a cash cow to fatten his wallet. In the official trailer of Rtn, their was SS interaction and followed up by NH interaction. Not only within hours were the SS & NH fandom excited after the trailer was released, but this site was in an uproar. People were genuinely scared of the thought of Kishi showing favortism to the complementary couples, and I say that only because of the huge sideshipping it has. What makes this all the more funny to me, was that I've seen NS fans constantly telling the NH/SS fandom to calm down (myself included) and to not take this movie so seriously as it is just filler. Within months when the spoilers came to light, the role reverse was competely unexpected and down right hilarious. Now you have the NH/SS fandom telling the NS fandom to calm down. People on tumblr were pissed off. I've even read that one particular lady rage quit about spending her money on the movie because she didn't get what she expected from the official trailer. The NH/SS fandom were not only expecting lots of moments for their ship to shine in this movie, but they also were expecting to have Hinata & Sasuke get more screentime as their personality change was the highlight of that trailer.

Kishi is an evil genius. I've heard that this movie generated the most revenue out of all the Naruto movies. Well played Kishi, well played.

Edited by luffyq1, 14 December 2012 - 09:22 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I'll be sleeping now. So I will leave this to you guys:

If and after Sasuke dies, would you be satisfy with NS being canon? I can't help but to connect to Inuyasha. I was late to the party of this kind of turn of event. If you don't know what I mean, well point is that to make one canon, kill one person from the love triangle. Share your thoughts.

[kirabook]

Sorry but i dont see a discussion here. All i see is flaming kishimoto.

Also tell me an argument that prooves that sakura was neglected by kishi through the whole story. All i can see is that she got less screentime during the war arc, nothing less.

There is a huge difference between just flaming and criticizing someone as an author.

Most people feel Sakura didn't get enough development, I mention a few things that could have been done way back that would have given Sakura more importance but instead, her development seems to have been dropped in favor of Sasuke ( http://www.narusaku....s...st&p=420628 )

If people were saying "Kishi sucks just because." "Kishi doesn't know how to write, he ruined the manga.", then that is pretty useless criticism, if that's even considered criticism.

Everyone is pointing our specifically that they feel Kishi should have done more with Sakura and could have done more with her past development. Most people here don't agree with his idea of a heroine and wishes that he would step up the game and give Sakura the spotlight she needs. And lastly, most people here WANT Kishi to do better, they aren't 'flaming' him to keep him down. I personally want Kishi to improve on Sakura's character because she needs it. It's nothing but criticism.

Just because you don't agree with what others are saying does not mean that they are trolls or flamers. No one here is calling each other names and no one has called Kishi names either. It's discussion.

I'll be sleeping now. So I will leave this to you guys:

If and after Sasuke dies, would you be satisfy with NS being canon? I can't help but to connect to Inuyasha. I was late to the party of this kind of turn of event. If you don't know what I mean, well point is that to make one canon, kill one person from the love triangle. Share your thoughts.

I don't want Sasuke to die for the sake of NS becoming canon. NS doesn't need Sasuke to die to become canon. If NS becomes canon only because Sasuke dies, I will be disappointed. Sakura should have to choose who she wants, not only have 1 choice because the other option is gone.

*I want Sasuke to die for many other reasons*

Of course it was foreshadowing, it was foreshadowing that Sakura would be Tsunade's apprentice, also stuff like this doesn't hold much anymore because Sasuke no longer has the Snake contract or any of the snake based moves that Orochimaru taught him.



The scroll and the sword make since for Naruto and Sasuke because of their masters, Jirayia carried a scroll, and Orochimaru had a sword, the axe just sorta comes out of left field as Tsunade never used one.

I suppose that is true, but I still feel as though it was something Sakura could have that would make her unique like Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto's scroll isn't really all that important apparently, but Sasuke's sword is. It would have been nice for Sakura to deviate from Tsunade in a more powerful way rather than a weaker one.

Edited by kirabook, 14 December 2012 - 09:24 AM.

[AnaHatakechan]

I've noticed that NaruHina/SasuSaku fans have said that when Sasuke thanked Sakura when he deceased the village it had some romantic intention. They've said that this statement proves that Sasuke did have some feelings toward Sakura in one way or another. But when I first read this chapter I saw nothing romantic but only platonic.
I've been called an idiot for thinking that Sasuke's "thank you" was a romantic moment for SasuSaku, in I don't think it can be classed as a SS moment at all.
But when Sakura hugged Naruto (romantically) and thanked him it was only a friendship hug and was not ment to be romantic. When clearly it was supposed to be a NaruSaku moment.
In Japan someone doesn't hug some in that manner without romantic intention, so it was not a simple friendship hug.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

There is a huge difference between just flaming and criticizing someone as an author.

Most people feel Sakura didn't get enough development, I mention a few things that could have been done way back that would have given Sakura more importance but instead, her development seems to have been dropped in favor of Sasuke ( http://www.narusaku....s...st&p=420628 )

If people were saying "Kishi sucks just because." "Kishi doesn't know how to write, he ruined the manga.", then that is pretty useless criticism, if that's even considered criticism.

Everyone is pointing our specifically that they feel Kishi should have done more with Sakura and could have done more with her past development. Most people here don't agree with his idea of a heroine and wishes that he would step up the game and give Sakura the spotlight she needs. And lastly, most people here WANT Kishi to do better, they aren't 'flaming' him to keep him down. I personally want Kishi to improve on Sakura's character because she needs it. It's nothing but criticism.

Sorry to joining this debate but it is flaming, because of something specefic because the fact that people are ignoring those coments, some guy pointed out that kishi did the adversitizin of the RTN like it was his fault that the trailer showed something different from what he really did.
Like he was the chief or the master boss, kishi only was responsible for the script even the director of the movie was a different person.
He was just responsible for the story.
Second it's flaming because i'm already tired of saying that kishi is finishing the development of other characters( he even says this), while this did not include sakura yet you're all raging, the same way that back in 300s a lot of people cried that the manga should be renamed to Sasuke because he got an entire arc, we passed 4 months without any appearance from Naruto.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 14 December 2012 - 10:07 AM.