@Atheck
Look I understand your opinion, but this is becoming more about personal points of view in regards to what Sasuke did. People can argue for hours about what they think of Sasuke's actions but I'm just talking about how the story itself portrays it. The story wanted to show Sasuke leaving as a mistake that would harm him, and Naruto fought against that because he cares for him.
Yes, and my responce to that is why Kishimoto has failed to consistently depict all vendettas of vengeance in that same light. Why was Team 10 not denounced for their actions if revenge is negatively reputed in that universe? Do you think that Naruto's mentality is correct or just in all situations? Can there not be a dissenting opinion or viewpoint in the manga which is not being denounced and is capable of bringing about happiness or contentment in an individual's lfie?
We can make lengthly arguments about the decisions a lot of the characters in Naruto abide to, and they would all bring good points on each side, but that doesn't change how the story itself portrays them. I was referring to Sasuke's actions from the story's perspective, not my individual one.
Well then I suppose this argument's resolution ultimately falls onto the shoulders of Kishi himself. For whatever reason he selectively condemns one act of vengeance whilst not applying those same standards to other peoples' actions.
In my own way I liked Sasuke's quest to kill Itachi, but I understood that the story regarded it as a wrongful action. Just because it might be shown as wrong doesn't mean I can't find enjoyment in it.
Oh, it is definitely perceived as unethical to Naruto and his friends but that doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable as you stated. Do you think they would resent Sasuke's personal ambitions if he had remained in the village and chosen not to sever the bonds that he has? After all, he would still be on the "correct" path to achieving a happy life and the death of Itachi would result in a dangerous affiliate of Akatsuki being stopped, in their eyes.
One more thing, what in the world was Zabuza's revenge? I don't remember at all.
Gato's abusage of Haku's body after he was already deceased and Zabuza's motivation for fighting being created after Naruto reformed him. Although he could have fighting with the intention of defending himself as well since Gato stated that he was going to kill everyone on the bridge, including Zabuza. But then if his actions were self-defence in nature why would he make a suicidal charge towards Gato whilst imperiling himself by having the mercenaries impale him so he can reach his target?
to maybe give a little clarification with regards to the mangas viewpoint on Sasukes revenge.
the mangas viewpoint is that revenge is wrong when it comes from the standpoint of revenge at all costs. IE Sasukes POV.
But his thirst for vengeance didn't impede him from creating morally discriminate decisions. At least not at first. Even when Deidara was defiantly attempting to murder him despite Sasuke's intentions only being to acquire information about Itachi he made it an endeavour to prevent himself from killing Deidara. In reality, it was only after Tobi influenced Sasuke that he brushed aside all of his moral inhibitions in order to achieve his ends.
As opposed to Naruto Vrs Pein, or Team 10 vrs Hidan in which case both did not intend to Sacrifice anyone but themselves.
As well as disobeying the direct commands of their military leader to carry out their mission. This would technically make them missing nin and it is a flagrant disregard of military protocol.
Sasuke on the other hand was willing to sacrifice anyone and anything that got in his way. Friendship, family, the village and so on.
How and why does this impact anyone in any substantial manner aside from Team 7? If Sasuke wishes to live a forlorn existence without any friends or a village to call his own why should he be deterred from living the way he chooses for himself? Excluding the obvious issue relating to him being a missing nin and aligning himself with Orochimaru that is. If he isn't harming innocent people, encroaching upon restricted territory, or committing any sort of crimes whatsoever then what reasoning would people have to prevent him from living his life of emotional misery if he chooses that for himself?
This was shown as ive stated elsewhere in his decision to nearly kill Karin. It was one of Karins most important roles, she was us, the audience> we were to see Sasukes fall into darkness from her perspective.
That was following Tobi's tale about the reality behind Itachi's actions and his clan's history relating to the village. Our conversation was referring to Sasuke before he resolved himself to destroy Konoha when his only objective was the death of Itachi and when he refused to kill anyone else aside from him (and Team 7 which was the only real moral stain in his history at that point). In fact, Sasuke appeared to hold a much greater appreciate for human life than he ever did preceding or following that period.
This fall is what Kakashi warned Sasuke about when he told him revenge would be the end of him basically. He would get lost down a road that had no good ending.
This was made apparent when Sasuke's expression appeared to be one of discontent or even sadness after killing Itachi. He had completed his lifelong objective and had now lost his major purpose in life. Although I suppose if he had not been influenced by Tobi or captured by Konoha's group he might have just assumed the life of a vagabond group of mercenaries with Hebi at his side. I feel that this point is somehow related to Suigetsu's statement about how Sasuke would bring peace and stability to the world. It's somewhat ironic that Sasuke would choose that life for himself after living in a world of obsessive ambition for so long.
Team Asuma though didn't lose themselves to revenge, they focused on the mission they had been given to hunt down the akatsuki. That Hidan was in the group wasn't a primary motivation just a nice side benefit.
Without the consent of the Hokage (before Kakashi volunteered) they were fixated on chasing Akatsuki. What do you honestly believe would be the end result had Tsunade continued to refuse permission for them to leave on this mission? I refer to my responce above about Team 10 technically becoming missing nin for this. Their motivations may not compel them to the greatest moral extremity like Sasuke's did but they would be disobeying the command of their superiors. Why would their revenge not be donunced as well? It's fairly obvious that Team 10, especially Shikamaru, held a grudge against Kakuzu and Hidan for their actions. Why is this resentment not met with any censuring like Sasuke's was? Whether they're obsessed by seeking to carry out their mission or not they continue to cling to those negative sentiments instead of moving beyond their instinctual urge to lash out at the source of their affliction like Naruto did with Nagato.
Narutos quest for vengeance for Jiraiya was used to spur his further character growth as he ultimately rejects revenge as a motive and chooses an alternate path.
Yes, and I referred to that in the responce above this one. Why could Team 10 not display that same level of maturity by acknowledging the circumstances of their situation (they would have all died had Kakashi not joined them) and abiding by the commands of their Hokage?
the manga has in essense made a strong distinction between someone seeking revenge at all cost (Sasuke, Pein) and someone seeking justice for the right reasons (Naruto, Team 10)
The underlying basis behind Naruto's motivations was the detriment to his character at the time which Nagato referenced as the cause of this bloodshed in the first place. Defending Konoha and yourself from the impending danger of annihilation by the leader of Akatsuki is one thing, but vindictively lunging at that person in order to satisfy your thirst for vengeance? The whole point behind the conclusion of that arc was Naruto being able to move past his resentful inclinations and accept that there is an inherent flaw with the world's thinking process. Once again, I refer this concept to Team 10. How is actively disobeying your superiors and rushing out into the world to inevitably die against shinobi who are far superior to you justice? How is it even logical?
Was Shikamaru under the impression that he and his group would be capable of defeating the two S-Rank immortal shinobi who defeated their commanding officer? They had no understanding of Kakuzu's unusual anatomy, his abilities, or the method for how to defeat him. Then there is Hidan's ever menacing presence which decreases their possibility of survival tremendously. Even with Kakashi at their side they would have all died had Naruto and Yamato not intervened. If needlessly dying in a futile attempt at vengeance is referred to as justice then I have nothing more to say here.
Edited by Atheck, 16 June 2013 - 01:49 AM.
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I wonder how thigs will unfold by the end of the volume. Do we have like 2 more chapters?
