1001 replies to this topic

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

My biggest problem with manga of any kind is when we have these...romantic themes in it that go nowhere. I hate when something gets wasted that much when so much effort was put into it. I hate when some mangaka put these possibilities in and then go about saying "Just kidding."

I hate wasted/pointless development. I hate it so much and I know a few manga that do this. Although many will disagree with me.



Again, there is no process to that. I mean, you say you've always known this since the beginning because you found her to be messed up in the head. If that was the intention, Kishi could have tried a LITTLE harder to show this. I have seen crazy girls in other manga like Yumi who exhibit the behavior. So when she sides with the bad guy, you can see why. Here Karin has been shown to be clear of mind. Infatuation alone does not make a crazy person. Otherwise might as well say Hinata is messed up in the head as well.

I can't say she is abused because she doesn't act like an abused woman nor has Sasuke ever really abused her before he stabbed her. And besides, abused woman do not go back to the man they love because they actually love them. They go back because it is a psychological reasoning that the guy puts into them that they were wrong, not him. Too much Law and Order SVU.

Karin is not going back out of fear, but infatuation. That's why she is not an abused girl. Masochist maybe, but not abused. Which is sad.

These characters are literally flipping characteristics on a coin-flip. No, seriously, I can see Kishi at his desk with a coin sitting there saying: "Okay. Heads Karin goes back with Sasuke....tails she does something else." *flips coin* "Heads...she goes back to Sasuke." And then give this shallow reason behind it. People say there might be a plot twist, but I think both me and you know this will not be the case. If there is I will be surprised.

Okay, while I understand Naruto is not a harem, we don't have any solid pairing development or we have characters where the development is there and Kishi refuses to follow through. So we have girls who are looking stupid. We have girls who are pathetically infatuated to the point of being shallow in their character development. We have boys who are oblivious to the obvious and boys who show no interest whatever, but girls crave for him anyway for no reason at all or worse when we have tons of reasons not to.

Like I said, the potential is there, but Kishi just refuses to do anything with it. I am with Slextrem on this one where Kishi has literally abused his females so much that the entire fanbase has seen then as nothing more than pairing fodder. No one cares about Hinata's or Sakura's (except maybe us) or even Karin's development....all they care is "Who are they gonna end up with?" Maybe this is why I took off my shipping goggles after 615.

Sakura was the last girl to even have this huge moment of development that was a lead character. She was shown to be self-reliant and has the capability to rely on her own strength, but again he refuses to do anything with this for one reason or another. I know people are telling me to wait and see what happens, but I am slowly losing faith by with each chapter. Not in pairings, but his own writing style. If he doesn't do something soon that is interesting to show how much of a good writer he used to be, then I find myself disappointed.

Oh and just to put this out there, if he does have Sakura go back to being infatuated with Sasuke....then he loses all credibility as a writer with me.

i'm with you on this part, Ino also loves Sasuke with no reason at all while i saying all the time that she still loves Sasuke people here "no she get over him because of her father speech", Ino is also an example of this, she had 0 develpment with sasuke and still she loves him with no reason after all, she would be a perfect female if wasnt her love for Sasuke, despite having a great development as a character.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 12 April 2013 - 01:12 AM.

[Inferno180]

Well we really don't know where everything will go with current Sasuke, I mean he is just starting, the fake interview, its not true, I mean Minato did have half the 9 tails chakra but still, Kurama cannot get stronger than the 10 tails, the 10 tails has an infinite amount of it.

Plus if that interview really was real and he dumps Naruto on Hinata and Sakura on Sasuke, well thats just making this a glorified fanfiction. Others will say Kishi knows his characters better, but in a case like this hell no if practically every fan can see Sakura's "love" for Sasuke being only idealistic, practically non-existent, even kishi himself calling it selfish, why would he keep this on Sakura? Just having his main heroine have this trait on her character which was key in her development between Naruto's efforts towards her and what Sasuke became over the course of the series, its something that has basically been a weakness and obstacle for her so why would he keep it on her and now start developing it when it was not even there in part 1 for Sasuke? Geez, SasuSaku is the worst thing he could do the story.

Sakura's only way forward for best development is away from loving Sasuke, maturing over her ideal version of him, no matter how its cut, she cannot go on like this, I hope Kishi takes her view of 540 and possibly 615 into effect and leads this to her getting the development she needs, she can forgive and interact with new Sasuke, but above anything not go back to loving something which never existed, anything returning to Sasuke just regresses her and gives her idealistic crush sudden value at the end, geez its nothing to worry about now but I hope there is some development beforehand so Sakura does not regress and basically destroy her whole purpose of development, if Sakura cannot mature then thats kishis biggest blunder. Sakura is not Karin, she won't react like that hopefully after seeing what Sasuke became and Sakura is not Hinata either as Kishi once said in the interview regarding the confession. Sasuke has mellowed out but he has to do a lot to make it up and redeem himself through effort mainly to team 7. NaruSaku is fine for now and still on track but hopefull Kishi keeps characters consistent even with Sasuke's new resolve.

We just want Sakura to mature over him, its perfect development, her ending up loving and choosing naruto makes her development come full circle I mean she hated and wanted nothing to do with him, they became friends, very close friends now, so why should that just end there even when they went through some of the biggest events together and some of those biggest events are because they impacted each other, why should that just end? There are some things we can agree with Kishi and some we cannot, but regressing Sakura would without question be the biggest mistake. NaruSaku is still on track and there will be more interaction between Naruto and Sakura, it will only depend on what we see in the future, basically also need to see more on Sasuke, I mean we still don't know how he will act, he can be the good guy but I'd still find him in character as lone as he still has the hardline lone wolf attitude like he did when he was hunting Itachi. Sasuke is always been good to me as a hardline guy, I see him like the Vegeta of this universe, yeah Vegeta was with Bulma but that's a different series. One thing in one shouen series doesn't mean things turn out the same way in others.

Edited by Inferno180, 12 April 2013 - 01:13 AM.

[Beastbomb]

I know it is fake, but the discussion we were having kinda resembles the prank as well as a few instances from the manga. Like the possiblity of Naruto gaining the other half of of Kurama's chakra. which i find to be ironic.

I have no doubt about NaruSaku, but doubt in the story itself.

Edited by Beastbomb, 12 April 2013 - 01:18 AM.

[Shadow1275]

I normally have a hunch for these types of things... Sasuke is clearly hiding something though.

Agreed, not too mention that Orochimaru all of a sudden just turns good? Something is definitely up. Unless he wants to dump years of hints and development about Naruto shouldering Sasuke's hate to the birds. Either way, this doesn't mess with NS at all so we'll just have to wait and see.

@Inferno180
Agreed plus Vegeta never tried to kill Bulma before they hooked up. Usually that puts a big damper on any relationship. Unless your Karin and the writer wants to use you for comic relief. Way to go Kishi

Edited by Shadow1275, 12 April 2013 - 01:33 AM.

[Nate River]

Agreed, not too mention that Orochimaru all of a sudden just turns good? Something is definitely up. Unless he wants to dump years of hints and development about Naruto shouldering Sasuke's hate to the birds. Either way, this doesn't mess with NS at all so we'll just have to wait and see.

@Inferno180
Agreed plus Vegeta never tried to kill Bulma before they hooked up. Usually that puts a big damper on any relationship. Unless your Karin and the writer wants to use you for comic relief. Way to go Kishi

Vegeta/Bulma is always a poor comparison to any pairing. Toriyama slapped them together out of nowhere in an attempt to piss off his own fanbase.

[MangaReader]

@Inferno180
Agreed plus Vegeta never tried to kill Bulma before they hooked up. Usually that puts a big damper on any relationship. Unless your Karin and the writer wants to use you for comic relief. Way to go Kishi

Someone on a different site made a pretty good comparison, in that Karin is like Harley Quinn from Batman, just like Sasuke for the most part is like the Joker.

[Inferno180]

Agreed, not too mention that Orochimaru all of a sudden just turns good? Something is definitely up. Unless he wants to dump years of hints and development about Naruto shouldering Sasuke's hate to the birds. Either way, this doesn't mess with NS at all so we'll just have to wait and see.

In all respect, its not a total loss on Sasuke's part for his turning, I mean we saw this coming far away. It was set in motion ever since the fight against Kabuto ended, he did go through a good gradual shift to trigger it, Sasuke only started his redemption so we don't what he will actually do yet. Orochimaru caught us by suprise kinda like Neji's death. What will Orochimaru do with this now, I mean he cannot take Sasuke, he is too weak as he admitted and he cannot control the 1st and 2nd hokage, Orochimaru is critical to give them a way back to the afterlife aside from them finding closure.

If anything I'd say the development for these 3 is like this:

Sasuke: a silver lining, we knew it would come, we are angered by how quick it was and anticipating on what can come from it. It can lead to something very good, considering Sasuke is kishi's favorite character this much development should be of major importance to the overall story, though it would be ironic that he used his fav character to butcher the story if things go bad such as Sakura reverting or skipping the fight with Naruto if anything most important. It can be good or bad, we just need to see, Kishi just needs to keep other characters consistent with their development when Sasuke comes in. No Sakura regressing or easily being forgiven by others. Something has to come in for Sasuke. Nothing has happened yet so this is a silver lining. To us, NaruSaku is fine and still on track, hopefully Kishi takes things in the right direction.

Karin: destroyed, her character was a humorous one but I really think she should have just decided to join out of loyalty to Orochimaru. That would have been a much easier reason.

Orochimaru: A wild card, we have no idea what he will do now that he is interested in something else. We have no idea what will happen with him, he was twisted evil with his own plans and now he is curious? This is strange, if any character risks being destroyed, it could be him if he of all people became all love filled.

As for one other, Suigetsu, he wanted to get out of there, maybe he can sense bad writing before it comes.

[Shadow1275]

Someone on a different site made a pretty good comparison, in that Karin is like Harley Quinn from Batman, just like Sasuke for the most part is like the Joker.

So that would make Naruto Batman, Kakashi would be-Nightwing, Sakura-Talia, Yamato-Alfred always taking care of Naruto

[Inferno180]

Vegeta/Bulma is always a poor comparison to any pairing. Toriyama slapped them together out of nowhere in an attempt to piss off his own fanbase.

Well that just puts any point on SasuSaku to have a bigger reason to not happen. It just seems worse though because its a negative trait on Sakura she had that drove her key development but its not a something for her to keep in the end, a driving negative factor in her development has to be overcome, ie Sasuke is her mental weakness, overcoming it, coming full circle over him and choosing Naruto over Sasuke is her proper development. SasuSaku is just a going to literally be the same way as Vegeta and Bulma, its just worse because the negative trait she had to drive her development then ends up staying on her and negating all the development and sole reason she had the struggle for in the first place.

[James S Cassidy]

Sasuke: a silver lining, we knew it would come, we are angered by how quick it was and anticipating on what can come from it. It can lead to something very good, considering Sasuke is kishi's favorite character this much development should be of major importance to the overall story, though it would be ironic that he used his fav character to butcher the story if things go bad such as Sakura reverting or skipping the fight with Naruto if anything most important. It can be good or bad, we just need to see, Kishi just needs to keep other characters consistent with their development when Sasuke comes in. No Sakura regressing or easily being forgiven by others. Something has to come in for Sasuke. Nothing has happened yet so this is a silver lining. To us, NaruSaku is fine and still on track, hopefully Kishi takes things in the right direction.

I think I speak for most when I say we hope he doesn't go that route with Sakura or Sasuke. I am just trying to remain realistic on this one. With Karin here and the route he seems to taking with her at the moment shows that he not above taking these kinds of routes. I am thinking in my head: "Please tell me you aren't going that route. Please tell me there is something more to this than you are showing."

If Kishi can make this work and make me out to be the fool, then great. If he turns out to be the fool and go back on everything he has done in the past...then it could spell doom for him.

Kishi is just walking down this fine line now.

[Beastbomb]

I think I speak for most when I say we hope he doesn't go that route with Sakura or Sasuke. I am just trying to remain realistic on this one. With Karin here and the route he seems to taking with her at the moment shows that he not above taking these kinds of routes. I am thinking in my head: "Please tell me you aren't going that route. Please tell me there is something more to this than you are showing."

If Kishi can make this work and make me out to be the fool, then great. If he turns out to be the fool and go back on everything he has done in the past...then it could spell doom for him.

Kishi is just walking down this fine line now.

Is there really that big of a possibility for SS to to happen. If he messes this up, he probably wouldn't be able to write another manga in the future if he turns to this. Not only will us NaruSaku fans be pissed, but i bet the neutral fans will flip to if he destroy's the plot of the story ( which he probably already has with this new chapter)

[Shadow1275]

In all respect, its not a total loss on Sasuke's part for his turning, I mean we saw this coming far away. It was set in motion ever since the fight against Kabuto ended, he did go through a good gradual shift to trigger it, Sasuke only started his redemption so we don't what he will actually do yet. Orochimaru caught us by suprise kinda like Neji's death. What will Orochimaru do with this now, I mean he cannot take Sasuke, he is too weak as he admitted and he cannot control the 1st and 2nd hokage, Orochimaru is critical to give them a way back to the afterlife aside from them finding closure.

If anything I'd say the development for these 3 is like this:

Sasuke: a silver lining, we knew it would come, we are angered by how quick it was and anticipating on what can come from it. It can lead to something very good, considering Sasuke is kishi's favorite character this much development should be of major importance to the overall story, though it would be ironic that he used his fav character to butcher the story if things go bad such as Sakura reverting or skipping the fight with Naruto if anything most important. It can be good or bad, we just need to see, Kishi just needs to keep other characters consistent with their development when Sasuke comes in. No Sakura regressing or easily being forgiven by others. Something has to come in for Sasuke. Nothing has happened yet so this is a silver lining. To us, NaruSaku is fine and still on track, hopefully Kishi takes things in the right direction.

Karin: destroyed, her character was a humorous one but I really think she should have just decided to join out of loyalty to Orochimaru. That would have been a much easier reason.

Orochimaru: A wild card, we have no idea what he will do now that he is interested in something else. We have no idea what will happen with him, he was twisted evil with his own plans and now he is curious? This is strange, if any character risks being destroyed, it could be him if he of all people became all love filled.

As for one other, Suigetsu, he wanted to get out of there, maybe he can sense bad writing before it comes.

I can see the build-up for it, its just that we had so much hints and development pointing to a Naruto Sasuke death battle. IE Naruto saying he would shoulder Sasuke's hatred, Sasuke vowing to crush Naruto. Naruto saying that the reason he would fight Sasuke was because Sasuke would attack the Leaf. And now there is no reason for them to fight. That is not good writing, unless Kishi somehow finds a way to make it work bc if he turns Sasuke bad then all that build-up for Sasuke being good will come into question.

[James S Cassidy]

Is there really that big of a possibility for SS to to happen. If he messes this up, he probably wouldn't be able to write another manga in the future if he turns to this. Not only will us NaruSaku fans be pissed, but i bet the neutral fans will flip to if he destroy's the plot of the story ( which he probably already has with this new chapter)

Depends on whether or not Kishi wants to bow down to the fanbase, but truth be told this is the least of my fears. I am more about story integrity.l

I can see the build-up for it, its just that we had so much hints and development pointing to a Naruto Sasuke death battle. IE Naruto saying he would shoulder Sasuke's hatred, Sasuke vowing to crush Naruto. Naruto saying that the reason he would fight Sasuke was because Sasuke would attack the Leaf. And now there is no reason for them to fight. That is not good writing, unless Kishi somehow finds a way to make it work bc if he turns Sasuke bad then all that build-up for Sasuke being good will come into question.

Yeah.

How will the development affect the manga in the long run? Sure, the short run seems great, but I forsee problems in the future with this chapter....and not with the pairings either.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 12 April 2013 - 02:19 AM.

[tricksie]

Yes. I dislike her placement in the Uzumaki clan as well. I do my best to forget about it, actually.

From a few pages back, about Karin...I totally agree with your posts! But this point is too funny — I realized that I too try to ignore this fact. hahaha! But Kishimoto's not letting it go!

[Inferno180]

I can see the build-up for it, its just that we had so much hints and development pointing to a Naruto Sasuke death battle. IE Naruto saying he would shoulder Sasuke's hatred, Sasuke vowing to crush Naruto. Naruto saying that the reason he would fight Sasuke was because Sasuke would attack the Leaf. And now there is no reason for them to fight. That is not good writing, unless Kishi somehow finds a way to make it work bc if he turns Sasuke bad then all that build-up for Sasuke being good will come into question.

Well we don't have all our answers yet with Sasuke, something still has to be done about Madara and for the fight to come between him and Naruto, thats really the thing to look at. Hopefully things go down the well written road, it would be hard to imagine Kishi butcher all his work using his favorite character.

As of now, NaruSaku and everything else is stable. Hopefully the silver lining with Sasuke goes well and keeps everything else in consistency. Hopefully Sakura matures over him and goes for Naruto, as I said before Sakura going from hating Naruto in the start to loving him in the end is literally the only way we can see her coming full circle. So for now tuck the panic buttons away, least there will be an epic battle with the 4 hokages.

I once said a joke saying that kishi had a panic button on his desk, he hits it to blow up all the storyboards and story bible (if he made on for the series) and then just goes insane and looks up fanfiction and puts it into his work with pictures, hopefully that did not happen. We don't need to be concerned with whats to come though, I mean he can still have issues with Naruto despite this change, maybe Obito or Madara can give him some cave in speech to test him, let him make an ultimate decision.

As of right now, I still see this as an enemy of my enemy is my friend type deal. Its just another world crisis everyone has to take out the maniac before the world ends plan. I mean he is doing this for Itachi, not Naruto or anyone else yet, Sasuke's will is because of Itachi and his new goal is for him right now, how this changes will need to be seen, Sasuke is still an enemy of the villages, as of right now he still does not give any crap about his former teammates until some event comes together, like the fight should. Sasuke is doing it for Itachi, everyone else is not important to him, well for now. I'd say he went from lawful evil to lawful neutral. He does what he needs to because of his beliefs but not for revenge as he was going to. Sasuke can fight for another reason like validation or as a way to atone for his crimes? He can still harbor feelings of what the village did despite choosing to do it for Itachi now.

[Derock]

Vegeta/Bulma is always a poor comparison to any pairing. Toriyama slapped them together out of nowhere in an attempt to piss off his own fanbase.

You have to understand though, it had to make sense for Trunks' conception. If Vegeta/Bulma was simply paired up just to pissed off fans without any claims about Trunks, you would be questioning where the hell Trunks come from and how the hell he's a Saiyan like Goku, Vegeta and Gohan.

[KnS]

Again, there is no process to that. I mean, you say you've always known this since the beginning because you found her to be messed up in the head. If that was the intention, Kishi could have tried a LITTLE harder to show this.

But the thing is, some readers DID anticipate Karin's behavior while some apparently didn't. Who is to say which reaction was Kishimoto's intention? If some people could anticipate the possibility of Karin's return to Sasuke -- whatever her motivation might be -- they are either good at guessing, Kishimoto is just that awful and predictable, or Kishimoto did enough work to show it.

There are millions of people still reading the story, and we know just from our own forum here that there is no universal opinion or reaction to Karin's return to Sasuke. I think that speaks as much to reader perception as it does to what Kishimoto may or may not have done right.

Here Karin has been shown to be clear of mind. Infatuation alone does not make a crazy person. Otherwise might as well say Hinata is messed up in the head as well.

Who said anything about crazy? Who said anything about infatuation alone? I have said several times now that Karin is and always has been a defective mess -- that does not mean "crazy" or simply infatuated.

Karin has been characterized from the beginning as an intelligent, gifted girl who makes disturbing decisions and even more disturbing associations. She's weird. Quirky. Defective. Call it whatever you want. The bottom line is, she was Orochimaru's loyal monster jailor, a willing participant in experiments on human victims, she chose to be a part of Taka and all that implies, etc., etc.

The girl's either got issues or she's a dark soul -- or both. Karin being clear of mind, as you put it, has obviously never prevented her from making self-destructive decisions. Her history proves that, and her return to Sasuke is more of the same. Like Tricksie said, above all Karin is self-serving, and apparently getting back with a "reformed" Sasuke gets her off more than her own principles or self-respect. That's pretty defective.

Is the fact that Karin fans don't like her characterization and behavior really Kishimoto's responsibility, or theirs for having expectations that are inconsistent with the author's choice? At best that's often a chicken-or-the-egg sort of argument.

As for throwing Hinata in there, I think that's unfair. I'm no fan of obsessive "love" in general -- Hinata's for Naruto, Sakura's for Sasuke, Karin's for Sasuke -- but it is a relatively normal phase that many young women experience. Key word: phase. Hinata does not possess the psychological hallmarks that distinguish Karin as defective.

And besides, abused woman do not go back to the man they love because they actually love them. They go back because it is a psychological reasoning that the guy puts into them that they were wrong, not him. Too much Law and Order SVU.

Not true. While you're right that there is tremendous psychological manipulation involved, many women do in fact return to their abusers because they love them.

Karin is not going back out of fear, but infatuation. That's why she is not an abused girl. Masochist maybe, but not abused. Which is sad.

I never said she was going back out of fear. I said she was going back because she's a screwed up girl who makes bad decisions and who's addicted to Sasuke.

The abuse consideration was never mine. The "We Care About Karin" folks seemed to be deeply disappointed that her character was ruined, and ruined for two reasons: (1) because Kishimoto made a big mistake by having her easily forgive and forget, and (2) she returned to a guy who tried to kill her and abandoned her -- a guy who, in other words, abused her and you felt she should have been shown to have more sense than that.

So if I'm understanding correctly, you feel Karin should never have returned to Sasuke because he tried to kill her and abandoned her, but at the same time you don't consider her abused...?

Like I said pages ago, I'm honestly just trying to understand.

These characters are literally flipping characteristics on a coin-flip. No, seriously, I can see Kishi at his desk with a coin sitting there saying: "Okay. Heads Karin goes back with Sasuke....tails she does something else." *flips coin* "Heads...she goes back to Sasuke." And then give this shallow reason behind it. People say there might be a plot twist, but I think both me and you know this will not be the case. If there is I will be surprised.

I don't know what's going to happen, and I'm not interested in trying to call it in advance. Unlike many others here, I'm content to read the story Kishimoto decides to tell -- whatever it is. It's his story, his set of characters, his universe. I personally don't tend to judge any author as "wrong" for whatever creative decisions they make. I've made the decision to take the ride, and I can step off any time I'm no longer enjoying it.

That's not to say I don't have a right to an opinion. It's just that I want to wait to form that opinion until the story is done and ALL the facts are in. Is Kishimoto going to surprise me? Don't know. Is he going to disappoint me? Don't know. Does he have a plan full of cool final twists? Don't know. Is he trolling everyone? Don't know. Is he phoning it in? Don't know. Will I get to the end and LOVE what happened? Don't know. Will I HATE it? Don't know.

All I do know is that the complexion and context of a chapter can be changed entirely by the chapters that follow. I'm not going to wear myself out judging and re-judging the success or failure of entire story every time a chapter comes out. I'm saving that for when it's complete.

[Dkey]

Karin's ability to sense how an individual is inside foreshadows Mito and Naruto's one. Thou probably is much more weaker. I remember her comparing Sasukes chakra to Suigetsus when Suigetsu was more kill left and right.

That all changed at the battle wirh Danzou when Sasuke went murder murder murder. Now Sasuke mellowed out so her drooling over Sasuke pushed her back to square 1. But the way it was shown in this chapter Karin was perceived as a lost case.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

But the thing is, some readers DID anticipate Karin's behavior while some apparently didn't. Who is to say which reaction was Kishimoto's intention? If some people could anticipate the possibility of Karin's return to Sasuke -- whatever her motivation might be -- they are either good at guessing, Kishimoto is just that awful and predictable, or Kishimoto did enough work to show it.

The problem is that she said "i'm done", then later it's show her fangirling over him and at the same time mad, maybe she was still like that, a fangirl i revisited the last page and looks like i was right now about sakura is the part that i'm concerned the most, the same way that the jail scene could be a hint that she was not so in love with him and would not be easy for her ot go back to sasuke, 540 instead of being a development were she get over Sasuke could be only a moment that shows "she still loves Sasuke and that's it" nothing else, Ino is the same.

Who said anything about crazy? Who said anything about infatuation alone? I have said several times now that Karin is and always has been a defective mess -- that does not mean "crazy" or simply infatuated.

Karin has been characterized from the beginning as an intelligent, gifted girl who makes disturbing decisions and even more disturbing associations. She's weird. Quirky. Defective. Call it whatever you want. The bottom line is, she was Orochimaru's loyal monster jailor, a willing participant in experiments on human victims, she chose to be a part of Taka and all that implies, etc., etc.

The girl's either got issues or she's a dark soul -- or both. Karin being clear of mind, as you put it, has obviously never prevented her from making self-destructive decisions. Her history proves that, and her return to Sasuke is more of the same. Like Tricksie said, above all Karin is self-serving, and apparently getting back with a "reformed" Sasuke gets her off more than her own principles or self-respect. That's pretty defective.

Is the fact that Karin fans don't like her characterization and behavior really Kishimoto's responsibility, or theirs for having expectations that are inconsistent with the author's choice? At best that's often a chicken-or-the-egg sort of argument.

As for throwing Hinata in there, I think that's unfair. I'm no fan of obsessive "love" in general -- Hinata's for Naruto, Sakura's for Sasuke, Karin's for Sasuke -- but it is a relatively normal phase that many young women experience. Key word: phase. Hinata does not possess the psychological hallmarks that distinguish Karin as defective.

What the problem with Ino,Karin and SAkura to love Sasuke, he didnt give a single development for them and neither he was at their side on their most times, at least Hinata shows reasonable reasons for loving Naruto, you can say that she's selfish or centered on him but naruto give development for her and was a influence on their lives while Sasuke dont, for Sakura just the fact of a teammate but still it was Naruto who helped her on the most of the development then second is Ino and third Tsunade.
Excluding Hinata their love for him is ridiculous.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 12 April 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[sushi.]

One...two....three...four....five...six......oh screw it, at least half of us care about Karin right? XDD

I do. Or..I care about the idea of what her character could've been. I like her concept and potential. Same with Sakura and Hinata. (I like Hinata's clan issues) Then Kishi screwed them over.

And I also agree with zac. ^^