814 replies to this topic

[StriderC]

I think she dropped the plan( when she put her friends to sleep) because everyone agreed with her to kill sasuke and suddenly she puts everyone to sleep, she went out guided by her emotions and in the end she went there without a plan.

I think you need to reread her confession onward. She put them to sleep because she WANTED to shoulder it all on her own. She didn't find it necessary to put her friends in this situation of having to deal with it. She felt responsible for Naruto's pain, and she didn't want Sasuke to continue on through the tunnel of darkness so she took things into her own hands. Sai says it. Kakashi even comments on it when he saves her the first time. Why would she first want to go with him, and then turn around and kill him after Kakashi comes. Doesn't make any sense to me...

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I think you need to reread her confession onward. She put them to sleep because she WANTED to shoulder it all on her own. She didn't find it necessary to put her friends in this situation of having to deal with it. She felt responsible for Naruto's pain, and she didn't want Sasuke to continue on through the tunnel of darkness so she took things into her own hands. Sai says it. Kakashi even comments on it when he saves her the first time. Why would she first want to go with him, and then turn around and kill him after Kakashi comes. Doesn't make any sense to me...

can you see the panel i posted?
Kakashi didnt see everything, and moreover, she did wanted to carry the burden by herself this after the first attempt to kill sasuke, on the second.
And look there's a difference between planning and thinking she had one thought of killing Karin but then she knew that she had to kill sasuke, and like i told you if she went with this resolution she would not had that thought or question herself.

Like i told you they all agreed to do that, she put them to sleep because even with this determination she wanst sure about what she wanted to do, words is different than actions.
She wanted to make the decision of killing sasuke after meeting with him.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 10:38 PM.

[StriderC]

can you see the panel i posted?
Kakashi didnt see everything, and moreover, she did wanted to carry the burden by herself this after the first attempt to kill sasuke, on the second.
And look there's a difference between planning and thinking she had one thought of killing Karin but then she knew that she had to kill sasuke, and like i told you if she went with this resolution she would not had that thought or question herself.

Like i told you they all agreed to do that, she put them to sleep because even with this determination she wanst sure about what she wanted to do, words is different than actions.
She wanted to make the decision of killing sasuke after meeting with him.

Yeah.. Agree to disagree. We're not gonna see eye to eye. lol

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yeah.. Agree to disagree. We're not gonna see eye to eye. lol

It's so bad that we had come to this the only thing you said was "re-read the summit arc, re-read the manga".
I just proved that SS and her feelings for Sasuke is bad to her character.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

She wanted to make the decision of killing sasuke after meeting with him.

The very final desicion, sure. But she was prepared to kill him from the start. She found him very changed and heartless, so she saw no reason to change Kill-Sasuke plans. If she had found Sasuke having a pretty picnic with puppies and cute babies in the sunshine, surely she would have reconsidered the need to kill him. She found him very unstable and murderous, as she had suspected.

We have given you not only actual pages to look at but also explained it to you. We haven't just said "re-read the whole thing, it's somewhere in there."

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

The very final desicion, sure. But she was prepared to kill him from the start. She found him very changed and heartless, so she saw no reason to change Kill-Sasuke plans. If she had found Sasuke having a pretty picnic with puppies and cute babies in the sunshine, surely she would have reconsidered the need to kill him. She found him very unstable and murderous, as she had suspected.

We have given you not only actual pages to look at but also explained it to you. We haven't just said "re-read the whole thing, it's somewhere in there."

No you didnt you bought up a single panel, if she really wanted to kill sasuke she would let everyone come with her, the real thing is her emotions and her actual situation made her unpredictable she tricked sai.
And even if she found sasuke having a picnic with puppies she had to kill him on the same way because he was a criminal and etc.

this is the problem of her feelings for sasuke doing those bad stuff, she put naruto and kakashi in danger there, and moreover she almost died
In other words she didnt really grow up there, she was still struck in the past.
Her feelings for Naruto and her love to sasuke put her in a dangerous situation.
She still put her emotions above her mind, what happened with Obito could happened with Naruto.

With this my conclusion is if kishimoto really wants to make her a main heroine or moreover continue developing her character she must come to a conclusion about her feelings for sasuke and what she really wants.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 10:49 PM.

[StriderC]

It's so bad that we had come to this the only thing you said was "re-read the summit arc, re-read the manga".
I just proved that SS and her feelings for Sasuke is bad to her character.

I said reread her confession onward. Heck, you can read what Poison posted. It's pretty much right there. Also, the whole reason she went. Her decision and her actions were mainly based around Naruto's well being. Sure, it was for Sasuke as well, but in the end, she made a more realistic decision.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

No you didnt you bought up a single panel, if she really wanted to kill sasuke she would let everyone come with her, the real thing is her emotions and her actual situation made her unpredictable she tricked sai.
And even if she found sasuke having a picnic with puppies she had to kill him on the same way because he was a criminal and etc.

We explained it all to you. For example, in the previous page I gave you link to the very chapter where Sai and Kakashi very clearly explain to Naruto and the readers what motivates Sakura. Look, we can just agree to disagree. It's no big deal.

Sakura tried to protect them all, but she wasn't strong enough physically and enough prepared emotionally and hardened enough to kill the man she loved. It wasn't just her love for Sasuke that motivated her in the summit arc. Again, in the previous page I gave you the link where all the reasons for her behaviour in the summit arc are explained. "Emotionally unstable" is Sasuke's reason for doing stuff, not Sakura's.

The link again, lo and behold:

http://www.mangapand...hapter-474.html

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I said reread her confession onward. Heck, you can read what Poison posted. It's pretty much right there. Also, the whole reason she went. Her decision and her actions were mainly based around Naruto's well being. Sure, it was for Sasuke as well, but in the end, she made a more realistic decision.

Her actions on the meeting with sasuke showed indecision.
But her actons before putting her friends to sleep showed care for Naruto's well being, that confession was for his well-being but i'm not talking about the confession i'm talking specifically about the meeting with sasuke.

[AzureWaters]

She wanted to make the decision of killing sasuke after meeting with him.

No. She was going there to kill him. Her asking to join was a lie in order for him to let his guard down so she could attack.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

We explained it all to you. For example, in the previous page I gave you link to the very chapter where Sai and Kakashi very clearly explain to Naruto and the readers what motivates Sakura. Look, we can just agree to disagree. It's no big deal.

Sakura tried to protect them all, but she wasn't strong enough physically and enough prepared emotionally and hardened enough to kill the man she loved. It wasn't just her love for Sasuke that motivated her in the summit arc. Again, in the previous page I gave you the link where all the reasons for her behaviour in the summit arc are explained. "Emotionally unstable" is Sasuke's reason for doing stuff, not Sakura's.

The link again, lo and behold:

http://www.mangapand...hapter-474.html

The bolded part explains her second attempt but does not explain the first.
http://i30.mangapand...uto-1210379.jpg

Sasuke reason for doing stuff is his blind revenge.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 10:55 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

No. She was going there to kill him. Her asking to join was a lie in order for him to let his guard down so she could attack.

Notice also that Sasuke seems to see right through it. He only lets her come close so he has better chance at killing her. Great minds think alike, huh?

Though it's also possible that Sasuke would have killed Sakura even if he believed that she truly wanted to join him. The way Sasuke immediately questions why Sakura would want to join him and the way he tests her by telling her to kill Karin lead me to believe that he never believed Sakura in the first place.

The bolded part explains her second attempt but does not explain the first.

I fail to see why not.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 10:59 PM.

[StriderC]

Her actions on the meeting with sasuke showed indecision.
But her actons before putting her friends to sleep showed care for Naruto's well being, that confession was for his well-being but i'm not talking about the confession i'm talking specifically about the meeting with sasuke.

The reason she went to kill Sasuke was also for Naruto's well being along with her village as well. For once, she put her loved ones, friends, and etc before her personal feelings.

Azurewaters

Agreed.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Notice also that Sasuke seems to see right through it. He only lets her come close so he has better chance at killing her. Great minds think alike, huh?

Though it's also possible that Sasuke would have killed Sakura even if he believed that she truly wanted to join him. The way Sasuke immediately questions why Sakura would want to join him and the way he tests her by telling her to kill Karin lead me to believe that he never believed Sakura in the first place.

Sasuke notice that she wasnt capable of killing Karin because he noticed her indecision, she was both unable to kill him(even goign to decide it) or kill Karin.
Sakura means nothing to sasuke why he would believe her.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 10:59 PM.

[Chatte]

Whatever, guys, you don't need the Kage Summit Arc to prove it's bad for her.
Look how many times she suffered before, how he made her cry, hurt her feelings etc.
She becomes all depressed, sad, however you wanna say it, when she meets/sees/hears (about) Sasuke.

When she's around Naruto, she's strong, bold, fierce, smiles, feels at peace.

What do we want more?

[StriderC]

Notice also that Sasuke seems to see right through it. He only lets her come close so he has better chance at killing her. Great minds think alike, huh?

Though it's also possible that Sasuke would have killed Sakura even if he believed that she truly wanted to join him. The way Sasuke immediately questions why Sakura would want to join him and the way he tests her by telling her to kill Karin lead me to believe that he never believed Sakura in the first place.

Exactlyyyyy. He almost immediately begins to kill her when he gets the opportunity. It shows that he truly cuts ties with her. Hell, he tried to kill her at their first meeting back in the early part of the second half of Naruto. Anyway, it's just as you said. IMO, it once again proved that Sasuke cut his ties with her, and it proved that Sakura still cares about her former teammate. The person she loved.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Whatever, guys, you don't need the Kage Summit Arc to prove it's bad for her.
Look how many times she suffered before, how he made her cry, hurt her feelings etc.
She becomes all depressed, sad, however you wanna say it, when she meets/sees/hears (about) Sasuke.

When she's around Naruto, she's strong, bold, fierce, smiles, feels at peace.

What do we want more?

Well, the conversation isn't really about whether SS is bad for her. It's about how her love for Sasuke in itself supposedly degrades her. Just the fact that she is in love with him. I personally argue that her behaviour matters more than whether she gets over Sasuke. If she was willing to kill Karin, Naruto and Tsunade just to be by Sasuke's side, I might see how the love would degrade her. She instead stands up to Sasuke, or tries to, even though she still loves him. It's not easy to stand up to those you love.

[Tsubaki]

@tsubaki i do agree with you but the more kishimoto keep her feeligns for sasuke the more her character is degraded, that's the problem, if he wants to develop her character he have to made her get rid of those feelings.
Otherwise she will still be struck in the past while the other characters move forward.

yeah I know, I really hope Kishi starts to develop her character to the point where she can finally move on of that love for Sasuke, at least that's what I most wish for her character.

Yeah, I can't even begin to tell you how much I disagree with this. There is no way Sakura is degraded by having feelings for Sasuke. Especially since she has shown growth in her approach to him. She has stood up to him (the summit arc) and shown that no matter how much she loves, she won't betray her mentor, her family, her friends and her village for his sake. She might love him, but she is not going to murder for him. Falling in love with Naruto doesn't make Sakura a more mature and developed person.

These examples you gave has nothing to do with her love for Sasuke, this has to do with Sakura herself, it only showed the she grew and became more mature, because when Sakura confessed her love for Sasuke, she was willing to betray his family, his friends, his mentor and even help him in his revenge. it just shows that sakura is now mature enough to know that there are things more important in life than your love life.

Her love for Sasuke degrades her character IMO, when was the last time that her love for Sasuke brought something to her character that wasn't sadness? and of course she'll become more mature if she move on for this love that just bring sadness and despair to her, this has nothing to do with her falling for naruto here, she may as well end up alone, but if she move on of this "bad love" is still a good development for her character, she falling in love with Naruto is more like a wish that I have for her, so she can finally meet that good side of love someone.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

because when Sakura confessed her love for Sasuke, she was willing to betray his family, his friends, his mentor and even help him in his revenge. it just shows that sakura is now mature enough to know that there are things more important in life than your love life.

Yep. Exactly. Despite her love for Sasuke she is now more mature and no longer willing to disgard everything for Sasuke. Yet she still loves him. How is that bad? Why is love bad? (If you want, compare chapters 181 and 483. Massive difference in Sakura, even though in both chapters she is still in love with Sasuke.)

Her love for Sasuke degrades her character IMO, when was the last time that her love for Sasuke brought something to her character that wasn't sadness?

That would be depression, not degradation.

and of course she'll become more mature if she move on for this love

Why? Why do her feelings matter more than her behaviour? She loves who she loves. What truly matters is how she shows that love.

Edited a bit to clarify.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 11:15 PM.

[AzureWaters]

Notice also that Sasuke seems to see right through it. He only lets her come close so he has better chance at killing her. Great minds think alike, huh?

Though it's also possible that Sasuke would have killed Sakura even if he believed that she truly wanted to join him. The way Sasuke immediately questions why Sakura would want to join him and the way he tests her by telling her to kill Karin lead me to believe that he never believed Sakura in the first place.


I fail to see why not.

Sakura is an extremely bad liar, I must say. He saw through it immediately. lol