19964 replies to this topic

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I said he's at least seeing team 7 in that panel. It's like you're not even reading my post. My patience can only endure so much with you. If you're simply going to give me the impression that you're just skimming through my post, then there is no need for further discussion.

Good day.

My patience is alreay done with you, you did not even show up a single proof to your arguments i keep going and you talk like i'm biased fool that know nothing of what i'm Reading of for kittening 6 years.
i'll ignore your comments from now on you have nothing to add to this debate because you dont know what a debate is, u just say "you're wrong, you're making real life assumptions, ss is 100% if sasuke is redeemed like it's a rule or something" the proof that is good you dont have.
i'm waiting since yesterday for you to point out and you only say that i'm wrong based on your thoughts you do not explain you do not post a single quote from the manga.
This is not a debate i'm leaving.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 12 December 2012 - 12:34 PM.

[kidNinja]

All we need now is a NH troll and we'll be rolling.

[GlucoseGlutton]

In 592 he's at least seeing team 7 in that panel, but not team taka. Like I said before, Karin, Suigetsu, and Juugo are just tools to Sasuke more than teammates. The level of care he's shown to them pales in comparison to the care he's shown to team 7.

Look, what you're doing with previous team 7 and new team 7 can just as easily be turned around in Sasuke's defense, not just for Naruto's and Sakura's. Karin still loves Sasuke? Last I checked, she's through with him.

Hello there mind if I put in my two cents? I wouldn't say that he doesn't care about Karin. Do you remember there was one chapter (415 I think) where Team Taka was fighting with Killer B (who was in the 8 tails mode) and some of the Amatersu gets on Karin as well and Jugo is pretty much telling Sasuke to leave her and that it's too late for her but he refuses and puts it out (even though it seems to strain his eyes). That's basically what got me into the whole SasuKarin ship but another thing was that he panicked. Sasuke panicked and called out her name and that just surprised me. Even if he doesn't care about her in a romantic sense I still personally think he cares about her to some extent .

[Chucky-kun]

Hello there mind if I put in my two cents? I wouldn't say that he doesn't care about Karin. Do you remember there was one chapter (415 I think) where Team Taka was fighting with Killer B (who was in the 8 tails mode) and some of the Amatersu gets on Karin as well and Jugo is pretty much telling Sasuke to leave her and that it's too late for her but he refuses and puts it out (even though it seems to strain his eyes). That's basically what got me into the whole SasuKarin ship but another thing was that he panicked. Sasuke panicked and called out her name and that just surprised me. Even if he doesn't care about her in a romantic sense I still personally think he cares about her to some extent .

this

[Awes9]

In 592 he's at least seeing team 7 in that panel, but not team taka. Like I said before, Karin, Suigetsu, and Juugo are just tools to Sasuke more than teammates. The level of care he's shown to them pales in comparison to the care he's shown to team 7.

Look, what you're doing with previous team 7 and new team 7 can just as easily be turned around in Sasuke's defense, not just for Naruto's and Sakura's. Karin still loves Sasuke? Last I checked, she's through with him.



Madara, Obito, Naruto vs Sasuke part 2, the war, more epic battles to come, wanting to see what happens in the end, questions that still need answers, these are just many of the reasons myself and many others are still sticking by with this manga, not because it's lacking real world common sense.

Chapter 414 page 16 sure he sees team Taka as tools and his feelings for team 7 are superior even tough the manga says the contrary. And you said you reread the manga.
The only person Sasuke has ever shown more care than anyone else for is Naruto and this has been emphasized time and time again.
About your second point if you really read the manga for these reasons why are you here trying to convince us of something most of us don't believe, seriously what is your goal. Shouldn't you be more interested to discuss these plot points ? I really have to ask what is your goal ?

Honestly all I have seen you is completely ignoring other's people argument, make baseless claims and says others are wrong while you are right. If you really believe all the bias you write why are you here in the first place ? I came here to discuss with fellow NS shippers their views on the pairing and what do I get : the same baseless claims I get from SS and NH fans.
All your argument boils down to anything can happen, thanks I really feel enlightened if Kishi wants to make Juubi Rikudou's ex-wife he can do it because anything can happen. I will let you the thread since it seems you like to hear your own voice and completely disregard everyone's else point but really thanks for trashing this thread and ruining the fun, a big thank you luffy.

Edited by Awes9, 12 December 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[PhenixElite]

Fact is SS wont happen, redeemed or not. Why? Because it would deliver a really, really, really bad message. It would show that all the development sakura got through the manga was all for nothing, since she didnt changed at all. It would show naruto loosing the love of his life.

Since kishi is trying to show this message to the younger generation, is there anyone who thinks that this is the right way?
Not really i guess.

[Gravenimage]

All we need now is a NH troll and we'll be rolling.

Please no, anything but that.

[kirabook]

I don't think people should really bring up the "bad message" argument. It's not really an argument because it provides no proof or validity.

SS can't happen until Sasuke somehow becomes unpsycho and MOST IMPORTANTLY returns Sakura's feelings. SS can't happen if one side doesn't give a hoot about the other. It's not even that he doesn't love her, he doesn't CARE. If SS makes it past that hardcore fact that Sakura's feelings are completely and utterly one sided, then SS can happen.

Yes, Sakura getting with her abuser is a bad message, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. There has been plenty of manga where the main character ends up with the jerk rather than the nice guy. Naruto doesn't appear to be going in that direction at all, but whether it is a bad message or not has little to do with the possibility of it happening.

Use real facts rather than "It will bring a bad message".
- Parallels are facts in Naruto, Kishi purposely draws them between his characters, it's not made up by fan interpretation.
- Parallels to other mangas are less valid, but still more valid than vague "Bad message" arguments.
- The most important arguments are:
+ Naruto loves Sakura
+ Sasuke does not care about Sakura
+ Redemption =/= instant love story or forgiveness for past crimes
+ Sakura is still loves Sasuke but is confused about her feelings for Naruto.

[PhenixElite]

I don't think people should really bring up the "bad message" argument. It's not really an argument because it provides no proof or validity.

SS can't happen until Sasuke somehow becomes unpsycho and MOST IMPORTANTLY returns Sakura's feelings. SS can't happen if one side doesn't give a hoot about the other. It's not even that he doesn't love her, he doesn't CARE. If SS makes it past that hardcore fact that Sakura's feelings are completely and utterly one sided, then SS can happen.

Yes, Sakura getting with her abuser is a bad message, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. There has been plenty of manga where the main character ends up with the jerk rather than the nice guy. Naruto doesn't appear to be going in that direction at all, but whether it is a bad message or not has little to do with the possibility of it happening.

Use real facts rather than "It will bring a bad message".
- Parallels are facts in Naruto, Kishi purposely draws them between his characters, it's not made up by fan interpretation.
- Parallels to other mangas are less valid, but still more valid than vague "Bad message" arguments.
- The most important arguments are:
+ Naruto loves Sakura
+ Sasuke does not care about Sakura
+ Redemption =/= instant love story or forgiveness for past crimes
+ Sakura is still loves Sasuke but is confused about her feelings for Naruto.

I dissagree about the message argument.
Kishi stated in an interview that hes making these manga to show the younger generation the right way.(not sure anymore if he exactly said right way, but it was sonething similar)
So i think i can be used as an argument as well as an argument like:" kishi said sakura loves sasuke, but naruto is close too."
Its just fact. I dont know what message should be delivered with SS. Maybe, Just stay with an abusive guy no matter what he did to you.

The whole manga is there to leave a message so i really dont know why this is a bad argument.

Edited by PhenixElite, 12 December 2012 - 03:22 PM.

[kirabook]

Naruto is not exactly meant to be a moral compass for little tweensters. The main message of Naruto is to never give up and then maybe you can succeed after all. In the end, if Sakura isn't meant to end up with Naruto and is instead going to end up with Sasuke, you could very well say "Since Naruto never gave up, he was able to turn his friend good again and make the love of his life happy." That's an ok "message" as well. Even though that message is "ok", it doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Since this is Naruto we're talking about, Sasuke crimes would easily be forgiven and forgotten if SS is to happen. Naruto apparently ignores anything bad Sasuke does and still thinks he can be saved. What kind of message is that sending? Even if your friend abuses you, tries to kill you, scorns not only you, but the people you care about, don't worry, you can still save them and make them good again. That message is pretty bad wouldn't you agree? Yet, 2/3's of the manga is centered around this idea, being fed to said tweensters every time Sasuke enters the scene. It's a pretty bad message, but obviously that is not stopping it from happening.

[Gravenimage]

I don't think people should really bring up the "bad message" argument. It's not really an argument because it provides no proof or validity.

SS can't happen until Sasuke somehow becomes unpsycho and MOST IMPORTANTLY returns Sakura's feelings. SS can't happen if one side doesn't give a hoot about the other. It's not even that he doesn't love her, he doesn't CARE. If SS makes it past that hardcore fact that Sakura's feelings are completely and utterly one sided, then SS can happen.

Yes, Sakura getting with her abuser is a bad message, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. There has been plenty of manga where the main character ends up with the jerk rather than the nice guy. Naruto doesn't appear to be going in that direction at all, but whether it is a bad message or not has little to do with the possibility of it happening.

Use real facts rather than "It will bring a bad message".
- Parallels are facts in Naruto, Kishi purposely draws them between his characters, it's not made up by fan interpretation.
- Parallels to other mangas are less valid, but still more valid than vague "Bad message" arguments.
- The most important arguments are:
+ Naruto loves Sakura
+ Sasuke does not care about Sakura
+ Redemption =/= instant love story or forgiveness for past crimes
+ Sakura is still loves Sasuke but is confused about her feelings for Naruto.

Unless Kishi is a fan of Twilight.

[PhenixElite]

Naruto is not exactly meant to be a moral compass for little tweensters. The main message of Naruto is to never give up and then maybe you can succeed after all. In the end, if Sakura isn't meant to end up with Naruto and is instead going to end up with Sasuke, you could very well say "Since Naruto never gave up, he was able to turn his friend good again and make the love of his life happy." That's an ok "message" as well. Even though that message is "ok", it doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Since this is Naruto we're talking about, Sasuke crimes would easily be forgiven and forgotten if SS is to happen. Naruto apparently ignores anything bad Sasuke does and still thinks he can be saved. What kind of message is that sending? Even if your friend abuses you, tries to kill you, scorns not only you, but the people you care about, don't worry, you can still save them and make them good again. That message is pretty bad wouldn't you agree? Yet, 2/3's of the manga is centered around this idea, being fed to said tweensters every time Sasuke enters the scene. It's a pretty bad message, but obviously that is not stopping it from happening.

A good message for naruto to still try to save sasuke would be something like: In every human is something good deep inside or sonething like that.
Also for the ok message: i think its hard to say that it would be a ok message if naruto ends up alone, because naruto is shown to have selfless love, what is very rare in other storys and it would be bad to show something like that rewardless.
Not to forget that it has a different impact to show a bad message in love instead of friendship.

I mean what would you think if you see a manga ending with the girl getting together with an total a**hole who treats her like crap and the selfless guy who cares for her more then anybody else ends up alone.

[luffyq1]

Oh no! Someone else thinks SS is not out of the realm of possiblities. That person must be a troll too!

[PhenixElite]

Oh no! Someone else thinks SS is not out of the realm of possiblities. That person must be a troll too!

For me its out of realm of possibilities. I have no problem with people who dint see it like me.
I just have a problem with guys who are making untrue SS comments.

[luffyq1]

For me its out of realm of possibilities. I have no problem with people who dint see it like me.
I just have a problem with guys who are making untrue SS comments.

I apologize for not following the herd like you by agreeing with every positive NS statement.

I simply believe that any pairing can happen for whatever ridiculous reason. It's Kishi after all.

Edited by luffyq1, 12 December 2012 - 04:16 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Oh no! Someone else thinks SS is not out of the realm of possiblities. That person must be a troll too!

Care to elaborate this?
Tell me why you think it can be canon?
since yesterday you still didnt answer this question.

You're just flaming this debate thread.

You can say most ridiculous thing, i dont think so, he's following a very logical scene lately the problem is that kishi always leave to explain later.
but give hints way before.
He gave hints about sakura feelings towards naruto, though the entire manga if NS becames canon, they cant say there's a no logic about NS, SS there's no logic there's any hints that sasuke have feelings towards sakura, neither any hints about naruto having feelings towards hinata


Sasuke did not hesitate to kill sakura this is the greatest proof that he does not have feelings for her inside his heart so SS died there and this is the reason why i dont think SS can be canon.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 12 December 2012 - 04:39 PM.

[Gravenimage]

Care to elaborate this?
Tell me why you think it can be canon?
since yesterday you still didnt answer this question.

You're just flaming this debate thread.

You can say most ridiculous thing, i dont think so, he's following a very logical scene lately the problem is that kishi always leave to explain later.
but give hints way before.
He gave hints about sakura feelings towards naruto, though the entire manga if NS becames canon, they cant say there's a no logic about NS, SS there's no logic there's any hints that sasuke have feelings towards sakura, neither any hints about naruto having feelings towards hinata


Sasuke did not hesitate to kill sakura this is the greatest proof that he does not have feelings for her inside his heart so SS died there and this is the reason why i dont think SS can be canon.

What makes it true of Sasuke trying to kill Sakura, he didn't flinch or hesitated. He didn't even got a flashback of her as if she was someone important to him. It was all" I'm going to kill you bye bye". Let's not forget that murderous look on his face when he was about to stab her with chidori.

[kirabook]

I don't believe SS will happen at all, but I don't think "It's a bad message" is a good argument against it at all.

Twilight is a perfect example. Bad messages happen even in the most popular media targeted at the younger generations. Just because it would send a bad message does not mean it can't happen, which is why that argument is not very strong. It's better to stick with the facts rather than bring in so so "bad messages".

A good message for naruto to still try to save sasuke would be something like: In every human is something good deep inside or sonething like that.
Also for the ok message: i think its hard to say that it would be a ok message if naruto ends up alone, because naruto is shown to have selfless love, what is very rare in other storys and it would be bad to show something like that rewardless.
Not to forget that it has a different impact to show a bad message in love instead of friendship.

I mean what would you think if you see a manga ending with the girl getting together with an total a**hole who treats her like crap and the selfless guy who cares for her more then anybody else ends up alone.

The same can be said that every human has a good side deep within, it's ok to be in love with them because they can change. It's ok for Naruto to risk his life for Sasuke because "he can change"? Why is it ok for Naruto to represent this bad message, but not Sakura? "Saving" a friend that made a "few mistakes" and shows no remorse is no better than being love in with someone because of the possibility that they can change.

The message is still bad, just because romance isn't involved doesn't make it any better. But that message is still there, and Kishi uses it every opportunity he can get. We never see Naruto reconsider saving Sasuke, it's always strong and persistent and even when he saved Sakura from death by Sasuke's hand, he never seemed to truly reconsider giving up on Sasuke. Kishi is not afraid to show a bad message, he has throughout most of the manga.

More Rambles --Click here to view--

If Kishi decides to go with this "Sasuke is a good guy deep within" strategy, Naruto ending up alone is not really that big of an impact. Naruto is selfless and he decided long ago he'd do whatever he could to make Sakura happy. If he's able to succeed in bringing Sasuke back and make him good again, along with making the woman he loves happy at last, then his mission is accomplished. It's not great like we all want it to be, but it's "ok". Again, this is if Kishi throws all the bad things Sasuke has done out of the window and makes all his crimes seem like nothing.

While Naruto still acts this way (Acting as if Sasuke is just 'lost' or being mislead even though he makes stupid decisions all on his own), I don't believe the manga is heading in an all redemption, crimes forgiven direction. I think Sasuke will be redeemed, but I don't believe that redemption equals instant love between him and Sakura.

The FACT remains he doesn't care about Sakura and it's been shown time and again. Sure, it would be a "bad message" if they somehow ended up together, but instead of speculating the badness, the fact that he doesn't care for her should cut off just about any chances they have of SS happening right now. The "bad message" as I have shown can easily apply to other themes that Kishi has shown throughout the manga, it is too easily turned around. You can use it if you like, but it's just not helpful, strong, nor does it really matter whether something will happen or not.

Edited by kirabook, 12 December 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[PhenixElite]

I apologize for not following the herd like you by agreeing with every positive NS statement.

I simply believe that any pairing can happen for whatever ridiculous reason. It's Kishi after all.

Well then good for you. I agree with statements that seem logical and true to me nothing more nothing less.
So as i stated i have no problem with the pairings you support, the only thing is that im not sure if this is the right place to rage about characters and authors.

[luffyq1]

Care to elaborate this?
Tell me why you think it can be canon?
since yesterday you still didnt answer this question.

You're just flaming this debate thread.

You can say most ridiculous thing, i dont think so, he's following a very logical scene lately the problem is that kishi always leave to explain later.
but give hints way before.
He gave hints about sakura feelings towards naruto, though the entire manga if NS becames canon, they cant say there's a no logic about NS, SS there's no logic there's any hints that sasuke have feelings towards sakura, neither any hints about naruto having feelings towards hinata


Sasuke did not hesitate to kill sakura this is the greatest proof that he does not have feelings for her inside his heart so SS died there and this is the reason why i dont think SS can be canon.

My opinion doesn't matter, remember? Apparently you, and many more, view me keeping an open mind as flamming instead of submitting to the supposed fact that NS is going to eventually happen in the end.

So tell me, why do you seek further discussion with a troll, if that trolls opinion is not taken seriously?

Edited by luffyq1, 12 December 2012 - 04:51 PM.