879 replies to this topic

[luffyq1]

Oh god what will they do about that lava ? I can't help but think about it !

Dive in it and see how hot it really is.

[redrose3443]

I just want Sakura to get a shining moment in battle. She hasn't been in a real one since the beginning of part two and is always sidelined from the action, for no real reason. She's an awesome healer, but that's all we've been shown. Hell, Tsunade got two battles( Oro and Madara), but Sakura only got one, then took out a bunch of mini juubi. Though that was nice, that was all the action we got. She deserves more, as the heroine.

Edited by redrose3443, 06 June 2014 - 02:15 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Dive in it and see how hot it really is.

That's the stupidest idea I have ever heard. Let's do it!

[Otaru]

Maybe it's the only way to escape lol.

If it's actually a genjutsu ^^'

[FireFox]

Oh god what will they do about that lava ? I can't help but think about it !

Well Naruto has the 4 tails Son Goku who uses a lava element as well the 3 and 6 tails Isobu and Saiken who uses a water element so maybe Naruto with them can do something about this situation ? Oh he also has Chomei the 7 tails who can fly also maybe the Hokageswill come to the rescue Minato and Tobiram can FTG then out of there in an instant take you pick LOl XD   .

[FireFox]

Dive in it and see how hot it really is.

I bet Sasuke the "leader" will be the one to suggest this because he's the know it all and is in charge now he's awesome like that you know it totally fits him   . 

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 06 June 2014 - 02:04 AM.

[Atheck]

This is where we disagree.  Kaguya stated this chapter that what Naruto and Sasuke were using was Hagoromo's powers.  Their powers are not their own.

Kaguya presumed that they were Hagoromo and Hamura's before guessing correcly that they were reincarnations of the former's sons. Those powers were the inheritances of the successors who were brought up to use them to continue the Sage's work. Just because there happened to be a predecessor that shared their gifts does not invalidate their claim to them.
 

Naruto most certainly won't keep the Bijuus inside him, and Sasuke certainly won't keep that Rinnegan/Sharingan eye he's sporting.

Why not? The motive for Naruto befriending and relying on the cooperation of the bijuu was to show that the correct path for ending war was compassion and understanding. In no way does that mean that he would be obligated to have the bijuu extracted from (assuming they would wish to remain inside his mind as Gyuki seemed content with being Bee's internal voice of reason and power). Hagoromo wasn't deprived of his powers or the bijuu (not until his death at least) after he spread his ideology. There's nothing to argue that they would lose their abilities simply for having beaten Kaguya.
 

It's not their birth right as it is their duty to know the history of Ashura and Indra as they were the next ones chosen. Hagoromo only gave them powers after hearing their answers to his question and finding them acceptable.

A duty which fell on their shoulders because they were born with the souls of Hagoromo's children in their bodies. This is their conflict, their ancestor, the one who gave them their powers. It's what distinguishes them from others. Since they became shinobi their feet have treaded in the same general footprints as their spiritual predecessors. An assessment of their intentions and character doesn't take away from the fact that no one else would have been visited with the opportunity (unless you care to prove how and why Joe the shinobi would be physically, mentally, and emotionally eligible to receive these gifts).
 

Plus, the situation does call for it as it's become blatantly apparent that you need either Bijuus, dojutsu, or given chakra from a legend to stand a chance againstthe current threats.  It was that way for Obito, with everyone still able to help in their own way, for Madara, and Kaguya is no different.

Having the means to fight Madara and whatever threats that come next is ample reason to be armed with these tools but it wasn't the sole factor going into Hagoromo's decision. He consented after hearing out what the conduct of Naruto and Sasuke was like, the quirks that make them who they are, their goals, the relationship they have with each other, and the semblance to his own children that he took notice of several times throughout their conversation. They weren't just tools for warfare. Legacies that were rightfully given to the head of the revolution, defences with which to protect the delicate system of peace being sought after, or simply just returning something that they had before could serve as good enough reason for retaining the powers.

 

Having Sakura and Kakashi face an army of White Zetsu, disregarding that the White Zetsu will take time to make, would be just to please fans, and not to mention impractical, because it's two people, both at their limit, against an army. That's not to mention the reservations they would have of taking out people they know.  If that's all Kishimoto spared them from IT for, it would be a let down, because their fight would be just fanservice and in the grand scheme not relevant.

If they've exhausted themselves to the brink of collapse then they shouldn't be there in the first place. A fight can only go as far as the participants are willing to push the envelope. There's no shame in taking a position of passive resistance if their arms are shaking too badly.

Kaguya has the Rinnegan and is the jinchuuriki of the Jubi, both of those conditions should make her a professional in the use of Yin-Yang Release. Creating an army or anything that her mind can think of should present little challenge. And if they're forced into battling friends and teammates, then they can always pull their punches and fight to incapacitate rather than kill. With Kishi's track record concerning those two, I would appreciate the opportunity to see Kakashi and Sakura fight a numerically overwhelming force just to bide the others time to defeat Kaguya. They might even be able to weaken Kaguya if removal of the victim from the Zetsu exoskeleton is possible. That sounds like an important job to me.

 

Also, it's not because of his power-up that Naruto has surpassed the Hokage.  There's more to being a Kage than just being strong.  Naruto, through his actions, have inspired the five countries to work toward peace.  No Hokage has been able to pull that off.  Naruto is to succeed where the previous generations have failed.  Hashirama as strong as he is couldn't get the five countries to work together for a common goal.  It's not the power-up that Naruto was given that he surpassed the Hokage. It has and always been his actions.

Naruto can be very persuasive when he expresses himself as the well-intentioned, dim-witted idealist that he is, but his rhetoric only goes as far as how well aligned the other person's life's circumstances are with his own or how the current problem's trials compelled them to look to Naruto for guidance and protection. Put him in a scenario where the other party demands something of his beliefs that requires critical thinking or if they're unwilling to hear what he has to say, then he's left scratching his head while skirting around the issue.

That's why I have more respect for men like Hashirama, they know the ins and outs of the system, they're able to respond under pressure and address what's being asked of them. Naruto is a great figurehead, he really knows how to tug at the heartstrings of people when they're at their most vulnerable, but he makes for a terrible politician and spokesperson. I don't think it's a coincidence that Hashirama succeeded with Sasuke on what Naruto failed to do (granted Itachi did make Sasuke more persuadable but it was ultimately Hashirama's deep understanding of history, his open-minded explanations and acceptance of responsibility that lead to Sasuke's hatred being mitigated).

All of that is beside the point though. Naruto first expressed his wishes at an age when he was still convinced that being the strongest meant surpassing the previous Hokages. Under the conditions of when that comment was made and Naruto's showmanship before Kakashi returned to it, I think it's clear that he was referring to combat skills.

Edited by Atheck, 06 June 2014 - 02:59 AM.

[rocci]

@atheck
Hashirama succed because he praise itachi. To make sasuke listen to you, you need to mention itachi. Orochimaru & obito already prove that.

[Hanabi]

Oh god what will they do about that lava ? I can't help but think about it !

sasuke have the hawk, and naruto have the extended chakra arms

[Atheck]

@atheck
Hashirama succed because he praise itachi. To make sasuke listen to you, you need to mention itachi. Orochimaru & obito already prove that.

Itachi was only brought up a few times during the entire monologue. What persuaded Sasuke was Hashirama's willingness to put aside his own needs for the moment and explain thoroughly the events that lead up the Uchiha being ostracised and killed. It painted neither side in a completely benevolent light as they were both guilty of mistrust and violence against each other and others. He admitted that his beliefs were his own but he also acknowledged the uncertainty and flaws that may persist in the system he would uphold. While I do think his amiable nature played a role in things, the honesty and respect he showed towards Sasuke may have helped influenced him even moreso. For a Senju to treat Sasuke in such a manner, even to the point where he would spurn his own brother's ill-shaded practices in a gesture of good-will without hint of bias in his mind and the lengths he took to protect an Uchiha from being killed despite having been a mortal enemy for years, impressed Sasuke a lot. Obviously Itachi was a significant point of the discussion, but it was hardly the sole factor that went into making his decision.

Edited by Atheck, 06 June 2014 - 02:27 AM.

[narusaku256]

You sir flatter me but thanks here is a gift for you 

http://wish-i-was-a-...undsme-arianrad

Oh I am sorry, I did not mean to.

Yessss Sasuke you little kitten...no not little kitten....tons of kitten!!

[TouKen4Life3g]

Damn. I just saw a betrayal scene that was handled nicely, I wish it happens here with Sasuke (duh) but that requires at least two people to trust him. Only have Naruto, but he's the one just get hit as the other (would have been Sakura) stares in a huge disbelief. Oh well, Sasuke is an top class kitten.

[DattebayoXShannaro]

Damn. I just saw a betrayal scene that was handled nicely, I wish it happens here with Sasuke (duh) but that requires at least two people to trust him. Only have Naruto, but he's the one just get hit as the other (would have been Sakura) stares in a huge disbelief. Oh well, Sasuke is an top class a**hole.

 

 

What was the scene from?

[NaruSakuishere]

I feel Sakura going to get another power up soon. With the way these chapter have gone, and her being so rash. its bound to happen.

[DattebayoXShannaro]

Kaguya presumed that they were Hagoromo and Hamura's before guessing correcly that they were reincarnations of the former's sons. Those powers were the inheritances of the successors who were brought up to use them to continue the Sage's work. Just because there happened to be a predecessor that shared their gifts does not invalidate their claim to them.

 

It's not really reincarnation though.  Ashura's and Indra's chakra just happened to attach to Naruto and Sasuke respectively.  It was the same with Hashirama and Madara.  They were reincarnations too, according to that logic, but neither generations share the standard elements of reincarnation, e.g. looking the same, having memories of their past life, etc.  According to your logic, Hashirama and Madara had the right of their past lives' gifts, but never received it.

 

The heritage itself is questionable.  From what we know, Indra never got the Rinnegan, yet Sasuke has it in one eye.  Ashura wasn't shown to be with the Bijuu. From what the Bijuu stated, they were waiting for this person the sage spoke of that would "play with" them for many years.  I do not see how what Naruto and Sasuke have now is their birthright.

 

Why not? The motive for Naruto befriending and relying on the cooperation of the bijuu was to show that the correct path for ending war was compassion and understanding. In no way does that mean that he would be obligated to have the bijuu extracted from (assuming they would wish to remain inside his mind as Gyuki seemed content with being Bee's internal voice of reason and power). Hagoromo wasn't deprived of his powers or the bijuu (not until his death at least) after he spread his ideology. There's nothing to argue that they would lose their abilities simply for having beaten Kaguya.

 

Remember, he only has a piece of each Bijuu.  Kurama is the only Bijuu that Naruto has half of inside him.  Their full forms are inside Kaguya, and when they get released again, they will be outside again.  Then, they can take back their pieces from Naruto.  Kurama's I'd imagine would be tricky because it's half, but I'd imagine it's possible.  It's my own personal opinion that they will be free to roam the world again.  That's the conclusion I get from the build-up regarding them. 

 

Also, I'd imagine despite how all five countries get along with each other now, they wouldn't allow one single person to possess all the Bijuu.

 

 

A duty which fell on their shoulders because they were born with the souls of Hagoromo's children in their bodies. This is their conflict, their ancestor, the one who gave them their powers. It's what distinguishes them from others. Since they became shinobi their feet have treaded in the same general footprints as their spiritual predecessors. An assessment of their intentions and character doesn't take away from the fact that no one else would have been visited with the opportunity (unless you care to prove how and why Joe the shinobi would be physically, mentally, and emotionally eligible to receive these gifts).

 

It's not their souls, but rather Ashura's and Indra's chakra that attached to Naruto and Sasuke respectively.  Hagoromo spoke nothing of souls.  Also, yes,I agree, it was because Naruto and Sasuke had Ashura's and Indra's chakra that they were able to meet Hagoromo, the legendary sage, regarded as a God of myth.  However, can the same be said of his brother, who's only been mentioned recently?  Their must be circumstances as to why myths don't mention the brother, and why Hagoromo himself briefly alluded to him.  From what can be the discerned, Hamura is a dark horse of sorts.  While Hagoromo was regarded as God, Hamura just doesn't get mentioned at all.  While Naruto and Sasuke met the sage due to their chakra, the conditions for meeting Hamura may be different.

 

 

Having the means to fight Madara and whatever threats that come next is ample reason to be armed with these tools but it wasn't the sole factor going into Hagoromo's decision. He consented after hearing out what the conduct of Naruto and Sasuke was like, the quirks that make them who they are, their goals, the relationship they have with each other, and the semblance to his own children that he took notice of several times throughout their conversation. They weren't just tools for warfare. Legacies that were rightfully given to the head of the revolution, defences with which to protect the delicate system of peace being sought after, or simply just returning something that they had before could serve as good enough reason for retaining the powers.

 

Yes, but is it permanent?  Is Naruto going to go through life now with + eyes, and Sasuke with one eye Rinnegan and the other Sharingan?  Chakra isn't unlimited either, unless you're an Edo.  Who's to say that during the battle that Naruto and Sasuke won't exhaust the chakra they were given?

 

If they've exhausted themselves to the brink of collapse then they shouldn't be there in the first place. A fight can only go as far as the participants are willing to push the envelope. There's no shame in taking a position of passive resistance if their arms are shaking too badly.

Kaguya has the Rinnegan and is the jinchuuriki of the Jubi, both of those conditions should make her a professional in the use of Yin-Yang Release. Creating an army or anything that her mind can think of should present little challenge. And if they're forced into battling friends and teammates, then they can always pull their punches and fight to incapacitate rather than kill. With Kishi's track record concerning those two, I would appreciate the opportunity to see Kakashi and Sakura fight a numerically overwhelming force just to bide the others time to defeat Kaguya. They might even be able to weaken Kaguya if removal of the victim from the Zetsu exoskeleton is possible. That sounds like an important job to me.

 

Yes, but Black Zetsu said it would take time for the people to become White Zetsu.  Also, Kaguya wants to kill them quickly.  Are we to believe that after getting out of the lava pit, that Naruto and Sasuke will still proceed to fight her, just the two of them, because we saw how well that worked the first time, and she wasn't even completely here yet.  Also, will Kaguya just focus on them, and not attempt to kill the "weak links" first?  Are Kakashi and Sakura just supposed to wait around until the cocoons start to change for who knows how long if they even have that opportunity?  I would be keep my eyes constantly on the rabbit goddess if I were them.

 

Really, they would want to stop Kaguya before it happens though, and they do have time to do that.  Instead of Sakura and Kakashi to be waiting for something that might not even happen, it would make more sense to have them go through a circumstantial event that has them learn what the heck is going on, and have them up to par to be able to help against the central threat.  Sakura with her build up lately is expected to have this, at the least.

 

Naruto can be very persuasive when he expresses himself as the well-intentioned, dim-witted idealist that he is, but his rhetoric only goes as far as how well aligned the other person's life's circumstances are with his own or how the current problem's trials compelled them to look to Naruto for guidance and protection. Put him in a scenario where the other party demands something of his beliefs that requires critical thinking or if they're unwilling to hear what he has to say, then he's left scratching his head while skirting around the issue.

That's why I have more respect for men like Hashirama, they know the ins and outs of the system, they're able to respond under pressure and address what's being asked of them. Naruto is a great figurehead, he really knows how to tug at the heartstrings of people when they're at their most vulnerable, but he makes for a terrible politician and spokesperson. I don't think it's a coincidence that Hashirama succeeded with Sasuke on what Naruto failed to do (granted Itachi did make Sasuke more persuadable but it was ultimately Hashirama's deep understanding of history, his open-minded explanations and acceptance of responsibility that lead to Sasuke's hatred being mitigated).

All of that is beside the point though. Naruto first expressed his wishes at an age when he was still convinced that being the strongest meant surpassing the previous Hokages. Under the conditions of when that comment was made and Naruto's showmanship before Kakashi returned to it, I think it's clear that he was referring to combat skills.

 

Tobirama has determined Naruto is just as much an idiot as Hashirama. Shikamaru compares his duty as being adviser to Naruto when he becomes Hokage to be similar to Tobirama as adviser to Hashirama.  They really aren't all that different.

 

Also, just because Naruto when he was young thinks surpassing the Hokage means in strength, though it's never outright stated it is in the flashback, doesn't mean Kakashi in the present is judging by the same criteria. 

Edited by DattebayoXShannaro, 06 June 2014 - 04:30 AM.

[rocci]

@dattebayoxshanaro
Naruto power is permanent, the bijuu will not take it back when they free from kaguya.
I don't think hamura will give power up because I isn't juubi jinchuriki.

[DattebayoXShannaro]

How do you know that for sure though Rocci?

[rocci]

How do you know that for sure though Rocci?

Because naruto is the choose one
He get bijuu acknowledgement and allow him to use their elemental ability and consciousness. Kurama doesn't has elemental(maybe yin yang).

[RamenBlossom]

I am not sure on whether or not Naruto's power is permanent, but I always thought that he would let the bijuus run free and if he ever needed help, they would come in an instant to help Naruto out of whatever the predicament is.

[redrose3443]

I can't really see Naruto and Sasuke keeping their powers. I mean, like RamenBlossom said, Naruto would more than likely let the bijuu go. As for Sasuke, unless Kishi is gonna have Sasuke be like Sharigan no Kakashi, with his forehead protector I can't see him keeping that eye. They might keep some extra chakra as a thanks or something, but as for demigod mode, I'd say no.