681 replies to this topic

[nia1994]

i don't see SK happening, SK to me is a lot like naruhina imo, there just one sided moments. both hinata and karin have similar character dynamic in the sense that they are both one dimensional whose goal and motivation revolve around a male protagonist (or anti hero).

 

anyways 

just had a thought: what if sasuke attacks naruto and sakura is the one to save him, now that would be so sweet 

[T XD]

i don't see SK happening, SK to me is a lot like naruhina imo, there just one sided moments. both hinata and karin have similar character dynamic in the sense that they are both one dimensional whose goal and motivation revolve around a male protagonist (or anti hero).
 
anyways 
just had a thought: what if sasuke attacks naruto and sakura is the one to save him, now that would be so sweet 

It's very possible, and it doesn't have to be Sasuke also. Naruto is surrounded with danger seeing that he's the top target. Sakura can at anytime save him and she can also get hurt, but of course she'll be fine afterwards XD

Edited by T XD, 24 June 2013 - 06:02 PM.

[Akashi]

It's very possible, and it doesn't have to be Sasuke also. Naruto is surrounded with danger seeing that he's the top target. Sakura can at anytime save him and she can also get hurt, but of course she'll be fine afterwards XD

I remember seeing a doujinshi on tumblr where Sasuke wants to hit Naruto with Chidori, but Sakura gets between them to save Naruto.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Even if it's one-sided, she got more teases than Sakura from anyone about Sasuke, which is none. That's saying something. Again, not saying SK will be canon but it seems like they will be ok. That's why I'm wondering bad.

[T XD]

I remember seeing a doujinshi on tumblr where Sasuke wants to hit Naruto with Chidori, but Sakura gets between them to save Naruto.

I think it's the one that coolcatjas made it. She is on this forum. I have to say it's a great sketch.

Edited by T XD, 24 June 2013 - 06:24 PM.

[nia1994]

I remember seeing a doujinshi on tumblr where Sasuke wants to hit Naruto with Chidori, but Sakura gets between them to save Naruto.

 i think i know what doujinshi you're  talking about

 

 

It's very possible, and it doesn't have to be Sasuke also. Naruto is surrounded with danger seeing that he's the top target. Sakura can at anytime save him and she can also get hurt, but of course she'll be fine afterwards XD

 

it would kinda be reflective of how naruto saved sakura at the summit arc (if it was sasuke doing the attacking kno) 

[Akashi]

I think it's the one that coolcatjas made it. She is on this forum. I have to say it's a great sketch.

Our fandom has the best artists/writers...   
 

I saw a few fanarts by Japanese artists.. those were stunning. 

[catsi563]

It's odd that SK is ok while SS is not doing so well. Granted Sasuke can end up alone for all I care, but if there has to be one, well yeah. Strange I must say, not going against SK though, just think well, I wonder why. Hell, we even have her defend herself like, "Psst, you're crazy if I'm in love. No..." So why? I mean two teasers, really. Oh well, Kishi is doing it.

 

Actually not really. When you consider SS only existed at the very beginning at best, at worst NEVER existed at all.

 

SS in many ways has always been Sakura with Sasuke occasionally deigning to fart in her general direction on occasion.

 

NS began in chapter 3 and just built from there. each interaction a brick in that foundation of slow steady development that's lead us to today

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
Actually not really. When you consider SS only existed at the very beginning at best, at worst NEVER existed at all.
 
SS in many ways has always been Sakura with Sasuke occasionally deigning to fart in her general direction on occasion.
 
NS began in chapter 3 and just built from there. each interaction a brick in that foundation of slow steady development that's lead us to today

Hey, I was just playing fair. Lol. Yeah, that's what I think too.

[redragon88]

i don't see SK happening, SK to me is a lot like naruhina imo, there just one sided moments. both hinata and karin have similar character dynamic in the sense that they are both one dimensional whose goal and motivation revolve around a male protagonist (or anti hero).

 

Ah, but there are key differences between Hinata and Karin in regards to how they relate to the one they like.

 

Karin is been a key member of Sasuke's dark journey in Part 2, she even got an even more particular role in the Summit arc as she was the one who personally saw and commented on Sasuke's increasing darkness.

 

Hinata only properly interacts with Naruto when she needs some personal development. Afterwards she disappears back into the background and has the same relevances reserved for the other rookies. She's not a key element of Naruto's journey.

 

It easily can boil down to the fact that Karin is on Sasuke's team, therefore can learn more about his motives and desires, while also continuously contributing to them. Hinata, on the other hand, is just the girl that likes Naruto from far way and only reaches to him to instigate her own growth.

[Nate River]

As to SK, I think it depends on how bad Kishimoto wants to pair Sasuke up. If he doesn't care then we may no get anything. If he does, then it depends. If the series ends in the current time frame then I think its is more likely we will get something suggesting it might happen, but otherwise will be left open ended.

If he does a 20 years later epilogue then all bets are off.

Ah, but there are key differences between Hinata and Karin in regards to how they relate to the one they like.

You're right. Hinata's is much healthier.

Karin is been a key member of Sasuke's dark journey in Part 2, she even got an even more particular role in the Summit arc as she was the one who personally saw and commented on Sasuke's increasing darkness.

A key member. Yes and no. Yes, in that she was clearly the vehilce that was use. No, in that she was in no way indispendsible to this. Nothing about her status within the team or to Sasuke seemed to have much importance to that event. The last few chapters make special efforts to emphasize this. If she matters that much then it's real hard to justify what Kishimoto has done with her last two appearances.

It's left the impression that the big deal for that event was all Sasuke.

At least, Hinata develops (sometimes). I don't know what I would call what he has done with Karin.

I would also addd, Karin is not a key element of Sasuke's journey. She's a key element for one event on it. A key element would be Naruto or Itachi. I don't see a difference between her and Hinata in this regard. Since that event, she just kinda of been there for the occasional use, just as Hinata has been.

It easily can boil down to the fact that Karin is on Sasuke's team, therefore can learn more about his motives and desires, while also continuously contributing to them. Hinata, on the other hand, is just the girl that likes Naruto from far way and only reaches to him to instigate her own growth.

Except she is really not doing any of that except for the Danzo fight.

I don't think their roles in the story are all that different. The difference is in the characters they are attached to. Naruto has had a love interest this entire series and that is unchanged. For all Hinata says and does, this remains the case. The person who has been constantly changing is Sakura. Sasuke on the other hand, does not have one. There has never been a Sasuke to SasuSaku. Romance has never been a part of story, so slapping him together with someone at the end is significant easier. He doesn't have to dump/resolve an entire plot thread to make it happen.

[redragon88]

@Nate River

 

Look we get it, OK? You hate SK, Karin, Sasuke and all of their involvement in the story and what they represent. I'm not even trying to argue whether their relationship is good or bad I'm talking about the type of roles they've had in the story from my perspective.

 

Seriously, what the hell was that obnoxious "You're right. Hinata's is much healthier."? As if I think that stabbing girls is ok in real life. We already had a discussion a while ago about how I separate reality from fiction but that you can't because you're a lawyer that sees bad people every day.

 

You see, I have the decency to remember how you see things, so at least have the decency to recall how I see things as well. That comment really hurt me even if you didn't realize it.

Edited by redragon88, 24 June 2013 - 10:08 PM.

[Gravenimage]

@Nate River

 

Look we get it, OK? You hate SK, Karin, Sasuke and all of their involvement in the story and what they represent. I'm not even trying to argue whether their relationship is good or bad I'm talking about the type of roles they've had in the story from my perspective.

 

Seriously, what the hell was that obnoxious "You're right. Hinata's is much healthier."? As if I think that stabbing girls is ok in real life. We already had a discussion a while ago about how I separate reality from fiction but that you can't because you're a lawyer that sees bad people every day.

 

You see, I have the decency to remember how you see things, so at least have the decency to recall how I see things as well. That comment really hurt me even if you didn't realize it.

 

Easy calm down let's not do something you might regret later and it might resort to bashing agree to disagree, okay? 

[redragon88]

 

Easy calm down let's not do something you might regret later and it might resort to bashing agree to disagree, okay? 

 

Don't worry, neither Nate or I are the types to end discussions in bashing. He simply made a comment that hurt me a little and I responded to let him know about it.

 

I'm sure if you felt hurt by someone's words, online or real life, you would also let them know, as long as you knew that person was reasonable like I know Nate definitely is.

 

Maybe I went too far by calling it an obnoxious comment, but that's how it felt at the moment.

[catsi563]

 

 key member. Yes and no. Yes, in that she was clearly the vehilce that was use. No, in that she was in no way indispendsible to this. Nothing about her status within the team or to Sasuke seemed to have much importance to that event. The last few chapters make special efforts to emphasize this. If she matters that much then it's real hard to justify what Kishimoto has done with her last two appearances.
 

IM sorry but this is entirely incorrect.

 

Karin was established as an equal to sasuke and an important part of his team. She was the only member of Taka that to this date in the story Sasuke said and I quote. "I need you."

 

Naruto has never said nor was hinata ever established as an equal to or needed by Naruto in any way shape or form. Even her greatest moment arguably her confession, was a moment that any number of people could have been a part of and had equal or greater emotional impact.

 

Karin was established early as the person who was closest to him , shown in  much the same way as Naruto and Sakura, through the manga by the way she and Sasuke were always in proximity to each other or speaking about the other in some fashion.

 

It is that closeness shown that really drives the final moment of that betrayal and makes it truly poignant as compared to Hinatas failure against Pein which we all know would have been even greater in scope had Iruka, or Sakura been involved.

[Nate River]

IM sorry but this is entirely incorrect.

Karin was established as an equal to sasuke and an important part of his team. She was the only member of Taka that to this date in the story Sasuke said and I quote. "I need you."

 

I agree that Hinata was replaceable in that scene.  

 

But To me, you're just floating around insignificant details. He may have said that, but with the way she is used by the author and the way Hinata is used it's hard to justify the important you give that line. Because really, to this point Kishimoto hasn't done anything with her since Danzou. It's support character stuff. The same kind of role Hinata has. The very fact that the whole thing is being treated as a joke and is being so inexcusably glossed over says all I need to know about that. You don't get away with this stuff if she has the importance you attempt to give her. You don't do this kind of stuff. Given that redemption permeates every page of this manga, it's real noticeable when it's given such slip-shod treatment and used a vehicle for comedy. 

 

Focusing on that line is mistaking the trees for the whole forrest. When I look at both I see consistent support roles for both. They have taken different forms, but they are still support roles and I think you mistaking that form for actual significance in their overall roles. 

 

 

Karin was established early as the person who was closest to him , shown in much the same way as Naruto and Sakura, through the manga by the way she and Sasuke were always in proximity to each other or speaking about the other in some fashion.

 

As compared to who? Suigetsu and Juugo?

 

That's not saying much when her only competition is a guy who has almost no personality and a guy who has been nothing but a endless string of sarcastic comments designed to lighten the mood. She's closer to Sasuke than those two in the same way that Hinata is closer to Naruto than Shino. Big deal. I think the comparison to Naruto and Sakura is a perfect demonstration of how limited her role is. Their collective journey's are brought out consistently and treated with great detail. It's treated seriously. Karin? I can't call what I see serious and she is only meaningfully involved in one piece.

 

 

 

It is that closeness shown that really drives the final moment of that betrayal and makes it truly poignant as compared to Hinatas failure against Pein which we all know would have been even greater in scope had Iruka, or Sakura been involved.

 

I thought it was the fact that he tried to murder a defenseless hostage and left her to die. Perhaps I have a heart of stone, but I wasn't especially moved by the fact that it was Karin. I was moved by its brutality and callousness. What he did mattered for more than who he did it to. It would have worked almost as well with a mook. Kishimoto didn't spend a ton of time establishing a strong bond between the two. I was never given the impression she was anything other than a tool and that's exactly how she was treated. A valuable tool is still a valuable too. It's not your close buddy, but you still care if your neighbor steals or destroys it. I really don't see anything in their interactions prior to her being stabbed that would suggest she was anything more than that. I think his treatment of her was a testament to that (as was the fact that Suigetsu and Juugo were left in jail). Yeah, he apologize (post Itachi), but I still can't take that scene seriously.

 

Moreover, the broader point is her comparison to Hinata. Hinata has generally been used in Part 2 to bail Naruto out of jams and impart a lesson on him (even though it had been done twice before). She was used for a little development for Naruto in 615 (though most of the development has been the other way). As for Karin, she was not a cause and effect or a driver of his descent into darkness. She was there to catalog it for the viewer and since she has finished that role she has been without purpose. Currently she has popped in to complete a limited task. It matters because the characters healed matter just as Hinata's speech mattered because Naruto does. In short, they are used as support for the characters they are attached to.

 

They don't do it the same way, but I don't see Karin being significantly more importantly than Hinata. I see two support characters with different uses. The only reason I think SK has a much greater chance than NH is because Naruto has a consistently defined live interest and Sasuke does not. 

 

 

 

You see, I have the decency to remember how you see things, so at least have the decency to recall how I see things as well. That comment really hurt me even if you didn't realize it.

 

I'm sorry. I shouldn't have used your post to say that. 

 

II said it because I have seen numerous posts raking Hinata over the coals for not getting it and her unhealthy obsession, but not fret much over Karin and Sasuke and that was really what that was directed. I do not know if you have done so, so it was unfair to use your post to say that or direct it at you, especially since you didn't do so in that post. 

 

So, I am sorry for hurting you.

 

That said you get a few things wrong: I don't hate Sasuke nor what he represents. I don't like his character shield, but I don't hate his character. My opinion of his has changed many times over the course of the series. Something I have said before. I have said I like Sasuke. 

 

The lawyer bit was a post I made where you mentioned all of Sasuke's crimes. You treated as a criminal law matter, so I took at face value. How was I to know if you ever read it considering you never responded to it?

 

Finally, that is not why this bugs me so much. That aspect is when people trying to make use of the legal system in stories without any clue about it or any research into how it works. It bugs me because for the reasons I have said to KnS. It was in poor taste and is precisely why I put her alongside HInata, at best. I do not like the   important building blocks of characters waived away like that and Kishimoto has a habit of doing that. I was never going to like her, but Kishimoto's treatment of that scene did great violence to what was left my opinion of her and her role in the story. I agree with KnS's reading of it, I just cannot let it slide the same way.

 

It's the same type of reason I hated his glossing over his friends finding out about Kyuubi. It was such a part of who he is and we get...well nothing?

[redragon88]

@Nate River

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it.

 

When I referred to your dislike of Sasuke I guess it was more in a broader sense of sorts. Not about disliking his character but the fact that Kishimoto is not portraying him receiving the necessary consequences that you see fit for Sasuke's crimes. At least that's what I think you referred to that time we talked a while ago. I, on the other hand, can brush off that stuff as the nonsensical happenings of fiction, but I also understand that it's just not that easy to do for certain people like yourself.

 

I suppose your issue is more about not agreeing with Kishimoto's lack of realism in certain scenarios.

[MangaReader]

I feel like if I don't respond to this current subject...that I'd be interrupting somethings. Then again, I really had nothing important to say, so I'll just focus on the now.

 

To me, I never really cared about any Sasuke relationship...but the only one that stood any chance was SK, if only because they do have interaction. Not every single one of them is meaningful, but it's the closest Sasuke has come to a true interaction with the opposite sex XD. As for this Hinata and Karin thing... while neither of them seem to think straight when it comes to one specific person, I do agree with Nate that Hinata has the healthier (though still an obsession) desicion, as Karin is in "love" with a guy who tried to basically murder her to kill his target.

Edited by MangaReader, 25 June 2013 - 04:18 PM.

[nia1994]

i have to agree with Nate River

 

i have to say this but to put SK on the same level as narusaku is kinda downplaying narusaku. Naruto and Sakura have one of the strongest bonds in the whole manga, he wouldn't dare hurt sakura unless (you could argue) it was only to protect her. whereas the bond between sasuke and karin is quite unhealthy and obsessive. I think sasuke did respect karin to a certain extent 

 

the whole 'i need you' line was also followed by 'fine, I'll find someone else' so i don't think you can really depict that as sasuke really needing her. Besides sasuke has always had a superior complex, he thinks everyone who isn't an uchiha is below him and that includes karin. In actual fact, naruto is the only one who he could see as his true equal and rival. 

 

let me ask you guys something: if karin didn't have her sensory ability would you still think she was any value to sasuke? my answer would be no, whereas a least with hinata naruto does genuinely care for her as a nakama.

 

i also wouldn't underestimate the bond between team 7, and that includes (sasuke and sakura relationship) kishi has highlighted several times that sasuke cared for her, of course not in a romantic light but care nonetheless.  

[Hiraishin]

i have to agree with Nate River

Same here...

i have to say this but to put SK on the same level as narusaku is kinda downplaying narusaku.

THIS.

I was literally just thinking about this. I've seen people compare the two (not here - elsewhere) and it really bugs me because they're not the same, or all that similar.

Glad someone feels the same way I do, haha.

Edited by mydearbeloved, 25 June 2013 - 09:58 AM.