882 replies to this topic

[KnS]

Then again it would be weird for Naruto to be holding everyone's hands for as long as he did Hinata's.

First of all, Naruto didn't really hold Hinata's hand for all that long. As kirabook has wisely pointed out, reader perception of how much time has passed is often different than how much actually has passed. Just because it spanned several panels, and then we had to wait three weeks or whatever to see it resolved, doesn't mean they held hands for three weeks, lol. It was just a few manga moments.

And the reason Naruto held Hinata's hand as long as he did is because he was waiting for Kurama to finish restoring his chakra. Once Kurama was at full power again, Naruto could implement Shikaku's plan and begin transferring Kurama's chakra to everyone. This is made clear by Kurama in #616, saying to Naruto, "I made you wait a lot. Some Kage bunshin should be okay."

Was Naruto supposed to stand there and wait with Hinata's hand on his face? He removed her hand from his face and held it in preparation for the chakra transfer -- not because Hinata is extra special or to make some kind of romantic statement.

Likewise, even the last panel of #615 -- Biju-cloaked, fist-pumping Naruto saying, "Let's go, Hinata!!!" -- was put into a very platonic perspective when in #616 Naruto says, "Let's do this together, Kurama!" There's no difference in the meaning of Naruto's behavior or attitude.

So I really have to say that, in my opinion anyway, there was nothing ambiguous about the Naruto and Hinata hand-holding. It was very clearly a result of Naruto waiting to execute the plan and engage others in spirited teamwork. The only way it can seem ambiguous is when the moment is viewed with an expectation that it must somehow imply romance, and only then because readers know of Hinata's romantic interest in Naruto. As many have said, there's absolutely nothing that implies romance coming from Naruto at all. Zero.

And it's also why Sakura's hug at the end of the Pain arc is different. Sakura's hug of Naruto was not a heat-of-battle action taken in response to an immediate threat or an order from HQ. It was a spontaneous expression of her feelings at a very public celebration of Naruto's value to the village. Sakura didn't shake Naruto's hand, or high-five him, or say, "That's my team mate!" No, she slugged him for scaring her with his recklessness and then hugged him in a genuine and intimate way out of appreciation and relief, knowing others were listening and watching the private moment.

Sakura's hug and the so-called "NH hand-holding" in #615-616 are simply not similar in tone or intention, and serve very different purposes in terms of conveying the emotions at those moments in story -- and that's true whether Sakura's hug was meant as a hint of potential romance or not.

[Zatheko]

I don't see the "higher chances" people speak of. We, and this is every fanbase, can't just pay attention to what Hinata and Sakura do even though it seems like that is all people pay attention to. I knew Hinata wouldn't change and she would have "feelz" about the moment. That was a given. She had feels every single moment with Naruto from the innocent to the battlefield. I was paying attention to Naruto this whole time. I wanted to see what he did and as usual he didn't even express anything beyond the usual he has done in similar past events.

Honestly, can anyone give me any moment where Naruto might have changed at all? Sakura has shown to change her opinions. She has shown to look at things differently and realize the truth. Compare that to Naruto, has he shown anything even similar to that? Anything at all? Like I said, I can't think of one. Any NH moments that occurred, I feel like you could put anyone in there and Naruto would still have the same reaction.

You can "play it safe," but remember not to ignore the facts as well. We all can admit that this moment COULD have been the biggest NH moment in the manga since the Pein arc and it happened the exact same way. With Naruto too focused on his enemy, than some love crush girl. Come on, really? Naruto cannot be THAT stupid. He can't be that oblivious to Hinata's emotions.

I admit I expected more NH moments and the NH fans to continue to ram it into us, but I laughed harder than I ever have when Naruto just let go to scatter and give people chakra. It really did turn an opportunity and turned it into nothing. It really did. I can't see it as anything more than what 616 made it out to be. I understand what 615 did and I see that, but since 616 stopped the moment right when it was about to be something bigger is a huge drop.

NH chances, despite my personal opinion, didn't raise or lower. They just stayed the same. Speaking of moments, why is there only "NH moments" when something bad happens or about to happen? Can't there be a "NH moment" in a normal situation? NS has plenty of them. I don't see why not.

People can look at what is there, but proof can be also in what isn't there. There isn't any moments where Naruto has shown interest in Hinata. There isn't "moments of NH" (not Hinata moments) outside of a battle situations. What, someone has to be hurt or die for Hinata to get moments? Pretty crappy if you ask me. "On the battlefield I am confident, in normal situations I am not."

Has she ever sat with Naruto at the ramen stand and fed him? No. Has she checked up on him when he was training with Kakashi? Again, no. Kishi could have had Hinata do a lot of things and yet he didn't. All those moments belong to Sakura.

And to even ask more questions: Why can't Naruto see Hinata as a friend? What law prevents Naruto from seeing her as a friend? Yes, I know these can be reversed and used on Sakura, but my answer to it would be the plain development NS share.



I never started saying NH was done until the time he saved her from the Zetsu clones. That's when I said they were done. That scene to me, was Naruto telling her that he sees her as a friend simply because he told her that she had self-reliance. She didn't need him to be great. A rather curious thing to say given that Hinata always felt weak without Naruto in the past.

As for Hinata still determined to be with Naruto...well, would you give up your love that easily? Also, you know how pissed the NH fans would be if Hinata gave up on Naruto right then? I see this as nothing more than fan service. One last hooray for the NH fans. It doesn't mae sense, but then again not a lot of things do sometimes. Is there a chance for more NH moments? Yes, but how can you top 615? Really, how can you top it and still make the love believable? If this chapter was supposed to be the game changer, it did nothing.

I have already given up on Hinata changing her love opinion on Naruto. I thought she would have changed it when Sakura hugged Naruto, but she didn't. I don't know about most girls, but if a shy girl sees another girl hug the man she wants and she notices how happy they are together she would back off. No she wouldn't have lost her love, but she shouldn't be trying to force herself into something otherwise it makes her look very selfish.

Now, of the sake of egg being thrown on my face, I will say that my personal opinion and what is fact are two different things here. Yeah, reality is that NH can still happen. Everything has a chance, even if that chance is a tiny one. However, I will say this. If NH becomes canon in the end, it will be by far the most asinine thing to ever happen in the manga.

Remember, I am a Naruto fan first before I am a NS fan. I like development and process. If NH becomes canon in the end it will ruin the entire manga development. It will be the biggest asspull ever and it will not make any sense at all. As a Naruto fan, the fact that NH happened with little to no development and the main character showing no interest until that point is a big let down. I wouldn't even let NS be canon if there was no development to it...and I support it.

I have read manga and had many shipping choices. Not all of them have come true, but even if they didn't I can see where the development occurred. So while yes I am disappointed that my choice didn't happen, the story is still tight and well written. If it didn't have that development in there, then I would say the manga was a total failure.

NH...I don't see the development. All I see is missed opportunities and forced character plots. NS is a more well-rounded development.

Absolutely right! Epic post!

[Jake]

BTW about the edo tensei , I thought that the second hokage made that jutsu o.o ? and orochimaru perfected it? Minato made the reaper death seal . I wish naruto would learn itttt.

1. It was never said anywhere that Minato invented the Reaper Death Seal, he just used to seal half of Kurama's Chakra inside himself before he sealed the rest inside Naruto.
2. Why would you want Naruto to lean it? anyone who uses it dies.
3. Are you sure you're not thinking about the Flying Thunder God Jutsu?

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

James S. Cassidy, excellent post.

I'm actually surprised by how much I'm not threatened by NaruHina now. Two or three weeks ago, I was depressed and worried. Bracing myself for unbearable NaruHina focus ... that somehow didn't happen. I wouldn't say I'm being biased or ignorant, but it almost seems like NaruHina's status seemed to skyrocket then drastically go back to the way it started before 615. It's shocking, actually. Arguably, this could signify the resolution of NaruHina entirely. All it needs is one final push by Naruto's love for Sakura being revealed to Hinata and then voila. Closure. Hinata always holds a soft spot for Naruto but with the knowledge that she had at least confronted him about her feelings and tried, she can be at peace. A light just went on in my head. I think Hinata's "After this war, I'll stop chasing you and hold your hand to walk with you!" has double meanings. It was obviously referring to her romantic feelings for him; undisputed. She would express her feelings and be there for Naruto, inspiring him like he always does to her. However, I think it also means that whether Naruto returns her feelings or not, it doesn't truly matter to her. No matter what he feels, Hinata would still "stop chasing him". If Naruto accepts her feelings, then that means she is able to be with him. If he doesn't, she'd still "stop chasing him". With the satisfaction that she at least tried, Hinata would feel some form of accomplishment. She'd be able to like herself completely, either way. Then she could direct her attention to her Clan with newfound confidence. I feel like Kishi's about to execute the one where she doesn't get with Naruto. It's such perfect character development for her, I'd totally do this if it was my manga. Contrary to what Hinata's fans say, she doesn't need to be with Naruto to be happy. Even Hinata knows this. Her smile during the Hug said it all.

I suddenly see Hinata & 573 in a somewhat better light now. While I still find it stupid to think of romance during a war, if my theory is right and Hinata doesn't care of the outcome, maybe she's not completely selfish like I thought.

That is what I've always found suspicious about NH being the end pairing. There were so many opportunities that Kishi could've developed NaruHina. So many times he could've actually hinted at it, right from the Chunin Exams (There was the first sign NH wasn't actually the end pairing. Naruto: "I really like ... people like you!" ). But he never did. Instead, he didn't make Naruto move on after the promise and did what? Kishimoto increased his feelings, to the point he actually fell in love with her. Which was confirmed by the relationship chart after Hinata's confession, then by Sai, then by Naruto himself through his reaction to Sakura's confession. It practically hit them over the heads at least three times by now but they chose to ignore it because of their own stubbornness. At this point, NaruHina becoming canon wouldn't make any sense and it's certainly not leaning to NH endgame. 615 was the big deciding factor. Kishi could've easily did subtle hints like him actually smiling that special smile, looking her in the eyes when he held her hand, you name it. And something else I feel the need to point out. When Hinata caressed Naruto's cheek in 615, did you remember his expression? It wasn't shocked. It was actually ... normal. Not very much feeling behind it. General. Hinata was being intimate and doing a romantic gesture. She had romantic feelings behind it. Yet Naruto barely reacted and was looking at her normally. I think that part always threw me off from the start. The scene and motion itself was intimate and romantic but Naruto's expression didn't match up. Different contexts I know but compare it to his inital reaction to Sakura's confession. Ignore the blushing, the overall expression. It had a lot of emotion in it. Hopeful shock. 615 though? He was staring at her like he was thinking "So, you're talking to me? Okay." The point is, Naruto didn't have the same amount of emotion here like he did then. You could see it plainly. Can the NH fans really say this meant so much to Naruto on a romantic level with that expression? I don't get it.

With the release of this chapter plus a more calm mood, I'm not leading anxiety cloud me. After this chapter, most of my anxiety is gone. I'm not saying NaruHina is dead but I'm not even the slightest bit convinced Naruto loves Hinata now. However, it has a chance. But I will say this: if Naruto truly feels nothing for Hinata but platonic affection and comradeship like we all believe, then I don't know else she could do to get Naruto to fall in love with her. If this doesn't change his mind about Sakura than nothing will. This is their last chance. Even the NH fans should realize this. Hell, I bet they already have. Why else would they be saying "Naruto likely loves Hinata now. Bye NaruSaku." I don't know how they aren't worried with after 616. It clearly enforced the now very likely possibility that Naruto was just being practical for a strategy. I would so be worried if I was them. If they haven't even considered this option, then they are in denial.

You know what I hate about the NH fans arguments? They're so quick to jump and scream to the top of their lungs "Sakura loves Sasuke! Naruto's just a friend or a brother!" Yet you know full-well that if even half of our moments on Sakura's changing feelings were instead Naruto ----> Hinata, they'd be saying the exact opposite. The perfect example of this is seen with the NS hug vs. NH hand-holding and earlier, when the RtN advertisements hinted SS/NH. They claimed it was canon proof because Kishi was behind it. But when it was revealed to be NS-centered, they back-tracked and said it was a movie so it didn't count. Hypocrisy much? Sometimes I wonder if the NH fans, deep down, truly believe we're as delusional as they like to claim we are.

I'm not worried about NS suddenly not happening or NH being canon. You know what I'm thinking now? "How is Obito gonna be brough to the light? Will Sakura have a major moment?" Y'know, the important stuff.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 18 January 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[Nefertieh]

I'm quite curious about what Sasuke's group is doing in Konoha. Like I posted awhile ago, I think Kishi's probably setting the stage for Team 7's explosive reunion.

Of course, it's possible that it's because I'm totally ready for this War arc to be over and done with. Yes, it's indeed possible.

I can think of the possibilities, considering how much damage Sasuke AND Orochimaru can do.....

Will the heroes of the war find their home in ruins?

Find out next time on Naruto Z! *cue episode preview music*

I don't think Sasuke would destroy the village; and even if it did, we saw how easily it can be repaired after the Pain invasion. Naruto did make Sasuke promise to go after Naruto first. At the risk of sounding like a fanfic, I'm guessing he's in Konoha to check out whatever was inside the scroll Suigetsu found.

Edited by Nefertieh, 18 January 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I don't think Sasuke would destroy the village; and even if it did, we saw how easily it can be repaired after the Pain invasion. Naruto did make Sasuke promise to go after Naruto first. At the risk of sounding like a fanfic, I'm guessing he's in Konoha to check out whatever was inside the scroll Suigetsu found.

He's going to check and to not miss the journey he will kill those two elders.

[六道仙人]

Whoops you're right I'm of Chinese descent so I had to study Mandarin in school but I've gone quite rusty. 娘 by itself can mean woman. And apparently used to refer to older, married woman . I mixed it up with 姑娘 which doesn't have the explicit 'married' context and is the one you mostly use only for young women.

So Madara ships NH now? Or he is just being a condescending douche.

Chinese is different from Japanese anyway...

In chiinese it would be young wife but Naruto is a japanese manga... 小娘 means definetely "young woman" or "little girl"... Madara doens't care about romance... LOL

[Chucky-kun]

Chinese is different from Japanese anyway...

In chiinese it would be young wife but Naruto is a japanese manga... 小娘 means definetely "young woman" or "little girl"... Madara doens't care about romance... LOL

>says is different
>lists example of the same two words in the languages.

Japanese and Chinese is like French and German.

[六道仙人]

I don't know what you mean... Are you agree with me or not? xD

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I don't know what you mean... Are you agree with me or not? xD

Ofc it is, if you say that word means young girl on japanese so shall it be, it's the same to portuguese -br and portuguese -pt, "rapariga" means slut/b*tch on portuguese when on the very same language on portuguese of portugal "rapariga" means "lady".

Chinese and japanese are different, pick "american" english and compare to "british" english.

there's no need to pick up two different languages.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 18 January 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[kirabook]

Random thought that just occurred to me at random.

That "In the eyes" statement, wouldn't it be interesting if for example, Naruto is actually looking at Sakura and Sakura is looking at Naruto and well, Hinata "sees it in their eyes" XD Pfft. I should stop daydreaming so early in the morning.

[六道仙人]

Ofc it is, if you say that word means young girl on japanese so shall it be, it's the same to portuguese -br and portuguese -pt, "rapariga" means slut/b*tch on portuguese when on the very same language on portuguese of portugal "rapariga" means "lady".

Chinese and japanese are different, pick "american" english and compare to "british" english.

there's no need to pick up two different languages.

I know what you're meaning but since Naruto it's a japanese comic we shall take it for what it is. Mangapanda did well here...

Btw, since some time I noticed the translations of those two teams (mangapanda and mangastream) are just poorly and have a lot of errors (they often distorce some word)... Sad that as the years go by the quality of translations is dropping.... I remember when there were great translator like Hisshoburaiken, cnet, molokidan, tora-chan, etc... No offence for actual translators... Just a my opnion about the drop of translations quality....

[redragon88]

Yeah, more and more I'm convinced that Kishi just views Hinata's love for Naruto as a means to motivate her and bring character resolution to her lack of courageousness.

I think that the focus of the hand holding last chapter is not "Oh Naruto loves Hinata since he's grabbing her hand" or even "Naruto is being grateful to Hinata by holding her hand". It's more of a "Hinata can finally be equal to Naruto since he's grabbing her hand".

Hinata coming out of Naruto's shadow has been a long time coming. That's what has been build upon with her character ever since she was introduced as the shy weirdo that likes to hide in a corner. She might still be shy and weird, but now she no longer clings to that corner, to her safe spot, since she can now encourage Naruto in the same way he did with her.

Hinata might love Naruto but her true character arc was about her finally reaching his level of courage. The focus in the hand holding was meant to demonstrate how Naruto is now able to see her as someone who is a valuable support to him, which is confirmed by him giving her Kurama's chakra. By giving her chakra Naruto acknowledges Hinata as an important part of this battle instead of being someone he needs to look out for.

Naruto simply grabbed her hand to give her chakra, but Kishi created a build up to it since this was a very important moment to her considering that for the very first time Naruto saw her as a comrade in arms. Naruto can finally trust Hinata in battle in the same manner he does with everyone else. That's all she ever wanted from him.

I know what you're meaning but since Naruto it's a japanese comic we shall take it for what it is. Mangapanda did well here...

Btw, since some time I noticed the translations of those two teams (mangapanda and mangastream) are just poorly and have a lot of errors (they often distorce some word)... Sad that as the years go by the quality of translations is dropping.... I remember when there were great translator like Hisshoburaiken, cnet, molokidan, tora-chan, etc... No offence for actual translators... Just a my opnion about the drop of translations quality....

Well, at least we can rely on you whenever we have doubts about translations. Thank you for your support.

Edited by redragon88, 18 January 2013 - 01:37 PM.

[Chatte]

Actually, it wasn't because of her. In our language it was translated as thanks to you, you as in plural, so Naruto was thanking not only Hinata, but everyone.

[fireandice]

Ofc it is, if you say that word means young girl on japanese so shall it be, it's the same to portuguese -br and portuguese -pt, "rapariga" means slut/b*tch on portuguese when on the very same language on portuguese of portugal "rapariga" means "lady".

Chinese and japanese are different, pick "american" english and compare to "british" english.

there's no need to pick up two different languages.

A little bit tricky here, since Japanese borrows a lot of words from Chinese, and in many cases when it does, the meanings and characters used are exactly the same, which is why I had assumed I was wrong at first about 小娘 being young girl.

That's the case for British and American English too. The difference starts emerging in more colloquial or complicated uses of words as the context changes, and every language evolves with time too. Like 'gay' 300 years ago wasn't exactly a synonym for homosexuality

Interesting though, to try and figure out the shades of meaning there. Literary analysis in Naruto ftw

[redragon88]

Actually, it wasn't because of her. In our language it was translated as thanks to you, you as in plural, so Naruto was thanking not only Hinata, but everyone.

I think 六道仙人 confirmed that he was indeed thanking Hinata.

But I think it was also confirmed that the "all this time" part simply meant during the battle and his momentary depression. This make more sense since he immediately also thanked Neji in his mind as well.

[六道仙人]

Actually, it wasn't because of her. In our language it was translated as thanks to you, you as in plural, so Naruto was thanking not only Hinata, but everyone.

what? he mentioned Hinata... "Arigato, Hinata..." He thanked only Hinata for being at his side that time and Nejii afterwards...

[Chatte]

I think 六道仙人 confirmed that he was indeed thanking Hinata.

But I think it was also confirmed that the "all this time" part simply meant during the battle and his momentary depression. This make more sense since he immediately also thanked Neji in his mind as well.

Hmm, dunno, that's how it was translated in our language. Dunno exactly, though. If I'd had the raws, I'd ask my friend to translate it, lol. xd

[fireandice]

I think 六道仙人 confirmed that he was indeed thanking Hinata.

But I think it was also confirmed that the "all this time" part simply meant during the battle and his momentary depression. This make more sense since he immediately also thanked Neji in his mind as well.

Yeah, I doubt he was suddenly overpraising Hinata for 'being there' ever since he was a Genin or something. (He didn't know she watched him...and that doesn't really count as supporting or helping him.)

I think we can be reasonably confident in our preferred pairing not to let Hinata moments worry us that much. Since a large part of her defining character trait is her crush on Naruto, then naturally when she interacts with him, her thoughts are usually romantically-tinged at least, as in 615. The reassuring part is Naruto hasn't shown to reciprocate, outside of friendly encouragement to her, which isn't really the case with Naruto-->Sakura.

Whereas, Sakura, as one of the main protagonists, is naturally developed more, so her key character trait isn't even just "she likes Sasuke" any more. She has her concern for Naruto, desire not to be left behind by the boys, to be useful etc, so her thoughts aren't always romantic ones of Sasuke or Naruto. Maybe that's why it feels like we have less NaruSaku moments relative to Sakura's appearance, compared to Hinata's 'NaruHina' ratio to appearance.

[六道仙人]

as I translated it previous week, Naruto just says...

"Thanks you, Hinata... My life isn't only one...!I owe to you for being at my side!"