19964 replies to this topic

[swagosaurus]

Weltall, your point about Sakura understanding Naruto just shattered my mind. Tsunade is dying, and probably will die. Sakura would then what it feels like to lose a mentor.

Edited by swagosaurus, 11 December 2012 - 11:35 PM.

[luffyq1]

Wow. Too many people joined my gangbang session. I'm tired now. I'll be spectating now.

[AzureWaters]

Think about this logically; if Sakura would have thought of Naruto in 540, then what would be the point of any romantic development/tension with two years or so left of the manga? I almost feel as if I'm defending SS somehow, but honestly.

Well it would have been better if she thought of both Naruto and Sasuke than just Sasuke alone. This would create suspense about who she likes and lets us know that Kishi is putting her feelings into question; which means they have a chance of changing in the future. The reason 540 upsets a lot of people is because the context is pretty definite and the lack of thinking about anyone else but Sasuke (on who she loves, whether negative or positive) can make some feel like there's no question, and thus hope, of Sakura moving toward Naruto romantically.

[Chatte]

Wow. Too many people joined my gangbang session. I'm tired now. I'll be spectating now.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't planning to attack you or anything, just trying to make you understand some things that would, probably, help you get real with some stuff.
That doesn't mean that in the end you cannot do what you wish for.

[Don-kun]

Think about this logically; if Sakura would have thought of Naruto in 540, then what would be the point of any romantic development/tension with two years or so left of the manga? I almost feel as if I'm defending SS somehow, but honestly.

Don't worry, I know that just like myself you hate that pairing to no end.

[Chucky-kun]

Sorry, but did you mean I'm not Kishi?

Am confused here.

English is not my first So I might be misunderstanding you.

i meant that i agree with you and that luffq1 isnt kishi and doesnt know whats going to happen with the manga

[Don-kun]

i meant that i agree with you and that luffq1 isnt kishi and doesnt know whats going to happen with the manga

Thank god i'm so relief now.

[Weltall]

I think Sakura cares more about Sasuke's overall negative character than the way he treats her, if that makes sense. When she's seen feeling down about him, for example, she focuses on his loss of self than any flashbacks on how he mistreated her as a person. I'm not sure what Kishi is trying to do there- but whether she gets over him or not, the killing attempts aren't something I believe she'll hold against him.

They are definitely bad and can play a part in her view of Sasuke, but I think this will effect the readers more than Sakura personally.

Secondly, it is still possible for Sakura to get over Sasuke. If or when Kishimoto does this, I just think the reason might be less about the killing attempts and more about Sasuke's current nature, period.

Yep that's it and it makes Sakura look as if she doesn't have any self respect or dignity and I do agree the murder attempts will most likely be forgotten as if nothing happened, Sakura isn't disappointed because Sasuke tried to kill her she is disappointed how he became like that, it's just unbelievable this whole Sasuke thing is really stupid and has gone too far, yeah murder attempts are nothing important after all
I can understand luffy's frustation it is simply put ridiculous, how can any normal human being forget murder attempts like that ? how are we supposed to relate to that ? Meh
Kishi's idea of basic human relationship and reaction is really messed up.

Swag : that's not what I was referring to.

[swagosaurus]

Yeah, I know, but it brought up that whole shebang.

Sigh. I just wish there was...something.

Edited by swagosaurus, 12 December 2012 - 12:31 AM.

[Qia]

Well it would have been better if she thought of both Naruto and Sasuke than just Sasuke alone. This would create suspense about who she likes and lets us know that Kishi is putting her feelings into question; which means they have a chance of changing in the future. The reason 540 upsets a lot of people is because the context is pretty definite and the lack of thinking about anyone else but Sasuke (on who she loves, whether negative or positive) can make some feel like there's no question, and thus hope, of Sakura moving toward Naruto romantically.

The only problem I see with Sakura thinking of both Naruto and Sasuke is this: When exactly did she figure out that she loved Naruto, or at least loved him, as much as she loved Sasuke? Some people might say, well, what about the confession? The thing is...I can't see her doing that in such a short time either. Maybe she would figure out that she felt SOMETHING for him, but still hasn't given much thought on it. The purpose of the confession was not to reveal what she truly feels about Naruto after all. Hence why it came out so....questionable at certain points, especially when she brought up Sasuke.

Now with her being almost killed by Sasuke, that could change everything. Sakura may have become disillusioned at that point. She doesn't feel safe around Sasuke the way she feels safe around Naruto (and that, I would like to add, was one of the reasons she gave while confessing. Some people have suggested that Sakura was putting the feelings that she had for Sasuke on Naruto, so it's a little interesting how much Sasuke seems to be causing an opposite effect now don't you think?). And yea I know that when the love letter ninja brought up "the person she loves" thing, she thought of Sasuke, but Sasuke has been the only guy in the manga that she has had those feelings for, and she hasn't figured out her feelings for Naruto yet, so it makes sense to me for her to be thinking about him then. However...she doesn't look too happy about it, but no further comment was made about it. Why? Because why would Kishi want to give away the fact that SS might have actually sunk at that point? He's keeping it open in order to keep people reading his manga IMO.

Also, looking at the Sasuke that she likes in RTN (yes I know it's not canon but that doesn't mean everything is made up just like that), I noticed that the Sasuke that Sakura wants....isn't really Sasuke. This also makes me think of chapter 3 way earlier in Naruto when Naruto turned into Sasuke and just happened to say everything that Sakura wanted to hear from him. Sasuke is not the prince that Sakura is looking for, and I'd really like to believe that she started to really take that in from chapter 540. And hopefully, in chapters to come, she realizes that Naruto is. That the feelings she has for him, the reason why her heart beats faster around him, is because she loves him. And it won't be the same love she held for Sasuke (hence why her confession didn't work because she may not have been able to see how different the two loves were). It would be something bigger. She's only 17, I think, so of course she won't...just figure out so quickly like that.

And as to how Sakura could still love Sasuke after all the crimes he committed before he actually tried to kill her? It's like asking why women stick in relationships that are obviously abusive =/. Some of them do it because that person has one good quality that they can see is still there and just try to "stick it out", you know? There are different reasons. But I kinda see it like that.

What do you think?

Edited by Qia, 12 December 2012 - 12:34 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I feel bad because the debate was nice and now he was "forced" to retire.
For those reasons we cant have nice things, i understand some his points are wrong but he said a half truth which was even do not being positive anymore she still loves sasuke it can change or not, of course SS canon is negative and it will destroy her character but sakura lack spotlight, lack heroish attitude even hinata got more panel time than she.
I would love to continue hearing his arguments, because this is a debate thread, so if not just luffy but some others users stop with stupid analogies and fallacies we could have a decent debate.

Kishimoto made a lot of mistakes with her character, i dont hate sakura i hate the way of kishimoto portraiting her character.
"A character that suffers very much because of love, shows a very weak side which is connected with her emotive side, if feelings are on the middle it's 100% of her to do something stupid and without thinking even naruto said this "she's going to do something without thinking", it's like we have two sakuras."
she's a complex character not easily to understand luffy1q.
Sakura has many flaws and he portraited she like this, i dont hate her character she's the most "Human" of the team 7.


her appearances lately have romantic implications every single time or it's towards naruto or sasuke.
She's not even close to heroish lately and even with kishi saying that she's the main heroine, he does not show her like it, i just hope in the next 8 hours we have a decent chapter and some NS hint.
I'm going to sleep now, good bye guys see you tomorrow.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 12 December 2012 - 12:44 AM.

[KnS]

Wow! This is the most lively and interesting this thread has been in a while!

(1) The timeline of events means absolutely nothing. (2) She still loves Sasuke, negative or not. Getting rid of her feelings where already in motion since the beginning of part 1. She doesn't care how much Sasuke treats her like trash, her heart is loyal and your "timeline" simply doesn't mean anything.

(1) Dismissing a story's timeline is a rather cavalier and somewhat dangerous attitude for a reader to take. Just saying. I mean, why keep reading at all if you're already convinced that the order of events, and the order they have been revealed to us, means nothing?

(2) Yes, I agree Sakura still loves Sasuke. However, we probably disagree on how "love" is defined in this context.

Sakura obviously still associates her romantic feelings with Sasuke, and she also loves him as a person in a way similar to how Naruto loves Sasuke. It is the dividing line between these different types of love that has been blurred for Sakura. In my opinion, the nature of her feelings for Sasuke have been consistently transitioning from romance/worship to loyal friend, she has just not been as conscious of it as one would hope.

And the reality is, Sakura doesn't care as much for Sasuke as Naruto does -- no matter what kind of "love" you want to call it. She was willing to kill him, and was willing to risk losing Naruto's friendship / affection / partnership in the process. Why? Sai says it was because she loved Sasuke so much she couldn't bear to see him sink any lower, and she knew the Rookies' plan would hurt Naruto so she chose not to tell him the truth and kill Sasuke herself -- as a means to atone for relying too much on Naruto and hurting him. But are we 100% sure of the accuracy of that analysis?

All we have is Sai's word for Sakura's motivation. Kishimoto purposely did not show us what Sakura was thinking as she made her plans and decision, nor did he show us what she actually said to the Rookies. Now, I do think we should take it at face value until we learn otherwise, but a possibility exists that Sai did not interpret every facet of Sakura's intentions correctly.

And this is not about conveniently picking and choosing which things Sai is right about. In the case of Sai interpreting Naruto's love for Sakura, for example, we were explicitly shown that exchange. We know for a fact that Naruto tacitly admitted his feelings for Sakura. However, we were not explicitly shown that Sakura's love for Sasuke is supposedly so great that she wanted to kill him "because she loves him." That was Sai editorializing. Instead it seems she chose to do what was right for the village, and most importantly what she believed was best for Naruto -- not that any great love for Sasuke had anything to do with it.

In my opinion, it's very difficult to argue that Sakura loves Sasuke more than Naruto when her actions prove otherwise.

There's an old saying that you remain in love with the last person you loved until you fall in love with someone new. There's nothing holding Sakura to the illusion of Sasuke except sentimental habit. I believe Sakura is very close to realizing romantic feelings for Naruto, and once she does her sentimental attachment to the Sasuke of her childhood fantasies will be suddenly and permanently broken.

FYI, I believe it would happen a lot sooner -- might have happened already -- if Naruto would declare himself. Instead he chose to tell Sakura that he hates people who lie to themselves. Nice. Naruto hasn't been perfect in this ordeal either. But Kishimoto has his reasons for all the misunderstandings, and for dragging it all out.

It's not just about how long it's taking for Sakura to love Naruto, its the added bonus that she still loves a monster named Sasuke Uchiha. That does not sit well with me, her character, and most of all Kishi's writting.

But she isn't "in love" with the monster Sasuke has become. That's the whole point. She's "in love" with the fantasy -- with her memory of the boy she first crushed on. The battlefield of love is littered with souls who had a difficult time erasing their initial, overly sentimental impression of their first love. But the truth is, whenever Sakura thinks of who Sasuke is now, and thinks on what he's become, she is at best depressed and at worst willing to take his life.

I admit it's frustrating to see both Naruto and Sakura throw away their precious feelings on a jerk like Sasuke, but it's a reflection of real life. Love is not an easy road. Neither is acceptance. If you think you can sit in judgment of anyone (real or fictional) because they won't give up on someone they love, then all that proves is that you have not experienced that kind of love in your own life. Parents feel this kind of love for their troubled children. People feel this kind of love for their cheating spouses. For friends who have betrayed them. It happens all the time. Look how many changes Thor gave Loki....?

For whatever reason, Naruto and Sakura (in varying degrees of commitment) believe Sasuke is worth saving, and we can only hope he somehow ends up justifying their faith. Either way, I believe Sakura's romantic confusion is on a timer. It will resolve the moment Naruto finally presents himself as the one who has loved and understood her all along.

[kirabook]

(Long post, sorry, didn't mean for it to be)

I'd argue that not all her appearances have related romantically to Naruto or Sasuke. maybe in more recent chapters because something keeps bringing it up, but other than that, her thoughts seem more focused on winning the war and supporting Naruto with the rest of her friends (which is how it should be)


Kishi could have very well done things differently and kept Sakura's character... "pure", but none of his characters are perfect. Naruto still wants to go save idiotic Sasuke despite all the things he's done. Hinata is still solely focused on Naruto and doesn't seem to see anyone else with her tunnel vision. Sasuke is a complete and utter moron (Nuff said) Obito has a less than satisfactory reason for going insane (still feel more pity for him than I would ever towards Sasuke). And Sakura still loves Sasuke and is confused about her feelings for Naruto.

In the scheme of things, Sakura's silly love problems really are no where near as intense as everyone elses (Neither are Hinata's problems I guess), yet I think she gets the some of the worse crap in the entire fandom. Her feelings only become a problem when she hesitates in doing what's right. (Killing Sasuke for his own good) At least she's not in a state of denial like Naruto appears to be most of the time towards Sasuke.

Out of all the pairings that are not canon, NS does seem the most likely. It's been said before but:

Sasuke will never love Sakura that way. Even if they somehow, SOMEWAY become good old team 7 friends again, it's not so much too late, but too much has happened. Even if Sakura forgets what he did to her, no one else will forget what he tried to do to everyone else. Sasuke is a terrorist and he's a wanted criminal. I'd hope that Naruto can't TNJ everyone with the "He's not that bad" while looking at the armless Kage in the face. (This is what I mean by Naruto's denial and maybe obsession)

-------------

Naruto does not have feelings for Hinata. Why is it many fans seem to believe that Naruto will never give up on Sasuke, because that's who Naruto is. I think the SS fandom relies on Naruto not going back on his word and getting Sasuke back to Sakura. Yet, when it comes to his feelings, they're easily very simple and will disappear just like that, because he wasn't serious. Naruto won't go back on his words (Sadly, god I wish he would give up on Sasuke but after all this time I know he won't) and he won't go back on his feelings, because again, after all this time, I know he won't.

-------------

Sakura is confused about her feelings. Some argue, "If she really loved Naruto, why would she be confused?" If she really loved Sasuke, why would she be confused is the actual question. (I believe she loves both boys right now). Some find it hard to believe that anyone could ever be confused about anything in this manga. While I have not been confused about romantic love, I've been confused if I even love my own family member due to the things they have done to me and the people I care about more. I do believe Sakura should not be confused and the answer should be simple, Sasuke is a retarded douche that doesn't even deserve a second thought because of the choices HE made HIMSELF. That's not to say she should immediately run into Naruto's arms and swoon over his every footstep at all. I like their relationship as is. To each other, they are people. It is not like how Hinata feels towards Naruto (an idol that she admires so, but never seems to want to know anything real about him other than his non-failing accomplishments)

Sakura and Naruto interact naturally. They don't always see eye to eye. They don't always understand each other. They aren't always happy about each others actions, but isn't that natural? Do you mean to tell me that any relationships you have had never involved misunderstandings, sadness, anger, confusion? This is a manga, not everything is going to be super realistic and real, especially not in a shounen, but Kishi is married. Every relationship is different, and maybe he's just going by what he knows?

-------

Now that that is over, I'd like to make one thing clear. We see this manga as 10 years, in their world, it's only been what, 6 or 7? And 3-4 of those years none of them had contact with each other? Part 1 (which took about a year?) Sakura was naive and very young. Sasuke wasn't bad back then. Her feelings at the end of part 1 were ok I suppose. By the end of Part 1, Sakura understands that Naruto cares about her and her feelings a lot, but I don't think she realizes that he LOVES her until Sai connects the pieces.

Then we skip 3-4. Within the first year (Naruto going from 15 to 16 at some point because he was 15 at the beginning of part 2 and 16 by the time he meets Minato, but really, we have no clue if even a year has passed yet in their world I don't believe) there were no mega realizations in the romance other that them both realizes Sasuke is still an idiot, oh I mean, they weren't strong enough to "save" Sasuke. At the end of part 1, Sakura accepts that Naruto cares deeply for her, in return, Sakura begins to care deeply for Naruto as well through part 2. Her caring about Naruto is obviously not very hard for her, she cares for Naruto just as much as he cares for her.

But later, Sakura finally truly realizes that Naruto ROMANTICALLY LOVES her, not just care for her deeply. (Via Sai)

Accidental Rambles That I Don't Want To Delete --Click here to view--

Her 'love' for Sasuke is not nearly as deep as the bond that Sakura and Naruto has developed over time. Again, they can't read each others minds and sometimes they miss each others' thought process completely, but Sakura does not and cannot understand Sasuke at all. You could say that she doesn't understand Naruto either, but she does. No, she did not learn the hard way by losing someone she loves (Like Naruto did), but she learned to understand him just by being with him, like a real couple would. They aren't soul mates, they weren't born to immediately understand each other the second they laid eyes on each other, they learned to be around each other like real people.

Oh goodness I'm rambling. Getting back on track:

The time span of her learning of this fact (That Naruto doesn't just care, he LOVES her) is not that far off from where we currently are in the manga. I complain about Hinata only thinking of love during this arc and I mean it. Sakura doesn't have time to sit down and figure out what to do with her love life. She's in the middle of war. Like she should be, she's thinking about getting out of the war alive with the people she cares about.

Once this arc is done, I don't believe there will be much time in the manga. Either Sakura quickly ties 2 and 2 together, realizing her feelings have been evolving all this time, we don't actually see the final realization and just the end game (That being some subtle NS scene to end it off), or Kishi decides for whatever reason that NH and SS is the way to go.

Sometimes, I realize that I am often being very impatient with manga and where it is going, but then I recall many other romance manga I have read when they were already complete and I quickly realize that, if I were reading those manga at the time they were running weekly or monthly, it would seem like they characters were too slow to realize things or the characters were stupidly incompetent. But if Naruto were finished by now and everyone went back and read the entire manga (which is not possible because the manga isn't complete) any and all development would make a lot more sense. (Biggest example I can think of at the moment is something like Tokyo Crazy Paradise. If I were reading the manga at the time it was being published, I probably would be like "JUST KISS ALREADY", but any and all impatient feelings were gone once what I predicted would happen happened in no time since I was not waiting weeks or months speculating and daydreaming)

I believe that is the reason why people become disillusioned with any pairing they align with. The manga is long and it's been 10 years, maybe less depending on where you started. I think realizing this is important, though it most likely won't change your perspective because it still doesn't change the fact that it's taken so long. Sometimes, characters suffer from long mangas. Naruto characters are a prime example of this.

Edited by kirabook, 12 December 2012 - 02:26 AM.

[Chatte]

Also, talking about foreshadowing. Dunno, I may read too much into it, but has anyone observed how Naruto's costume in Kurama Mode is similar with Sakura's costume in Part 1, with those circles and stuff?
The only difference is that his circles are connected and the one on the back is higher, while Sakura's was more on the bottom.
However, if you get the one on the bottom up and unify them, it looks exactly like Naruto's outfit.
Do you think I am reading too much into it? (might be as it's not the first time I read too much into things, heh )

[Chucky-kun]

Also, talking about foreshadowing. Dunno, I may read too much into it, but has anyone observed how Naruto's costume in Kurama Mode is similar with Sakura's costume in Part 1, with those circles and stuff?
The only difference is that his circles are connected and the one on the back is higher, while Sakura's was more on the bottom.
However, if you get the one on the bottom up and unify them, it looks exactly like Naruto's outfit.
Do you think I am reading too much into it? (might be as it's not the first time I read too much into things, heh )

I think thats a tad bit too much lol

[Chatte]

I think thats a tad bit too much lol

Heh, maybe...

[neoshadow]

Also, talking about foreshadowing. Dunno, I may read too much into it, but has anyone observed how Naruto's costume in Kurama Mode is similar with Sakura's costume in Part 1, with those circles and stuff?
The only difference is that his circles are connected and the one on the back is higher, while Sakura's was more on the bottom.
However, if you get the one on the bottom up and unify them, it looks exactly like Naruto's outfit.
Do you think I am reading too much into it? (might be as it's not the first time I read too much into things, heh )

I've always viewed all the symbols on Naruto's Kyuubi Chakra Mode costume as just an abstract representation of the state of the seal containing Kurama. When Naruto is forcibly taking Kurama's chakra then all the symbols are the spiral pattern similar to the seal on Narutos stomach.

 seal_two.jpg   242.67KB   2 downloads

When him and Kurama join forces all the spirals are turned into complete circles. The same thing happened in the invasion of Pain, when Naruto was willing to release Kurama the spiral seal morphed into a black circle and then began leaking, most likely to represent the fox taking over. Instead in the Kyuubi Chakra Mode it represents them joining forces and Naruto releasing Kurama willingly hence the lack of the seal leaking.

 seal_one.jpg   239.54KB   2 downloads

As much as I would like to believe Naruto's symbols are connected to Sakura I think its just purely a coincidence that it looks like the symbols on Sakura's outfit (the Haruno symbol?).



edit: took a while to get the pictures

Edited by neoshadow, 12 December 2012 - 03:14 AM.

[kirabook]

Every time I see that last picture, I just notice how much older/taller Naruto has gotten. Especially how square the shape of his jaw is getting.

[Chatte]

@neoshadow

Yeah the others are only that way, but the last one with the circles around it just reminded me of Sakura's Part 1 costume and I was asking myself if I gave it too much thought.
That's why decided to ask around

[narulsaku]

neoshadow- did you asked that symbol question before. i cant remember well but i ve seen a whole thread 1 or 2 months ago about this. someone put a pic where sakura , naruto and sasukes symbols were there and that person just asked the same question . about the similarity of haruno and uzumaki symbols.