9679 replies to this topic

[merryGOflava]

Okay then, have fun

I'm no good at debating

after ALLL THAT!!??

[FoolishYoungling]

after ALLL THAT!!??

*poke* you seem upset?

[LegendaryArcanine42]

after ALLL THAT!!??

I need to get my "troll" on for just a second...

A-hem...

UMADBRO?! (lolj/k)

[merryGOflava]

I need to get my "troll" on for just a second...

A-hem...

UMADBRO?! (lolj/k)

IMA GIRL

[Miss Soupy]

And I keep repeating because you keep bringing up counter-arguments that attempt to worm their way around what I just said and fail to do so. If you truly understood and "knew already" that Kishi is the writer (this is slowly becoming my catchphrase ¬_¬) then you wouldn't keep trying to counter that statement and call it weak... You'd agree!

Sorry for butting in, but I think I can kind of see where Darth Krypt is coming from. There is no point in agreeing with obvious statements like 'Kishi can do anything he wants' because it is a fact that everyone is aware of. You go on to say this:

A debate can only happen when there's a counter-argument, and if there's no counter-argument to a statement (which is proven as fact, and a fact is never debatable) then no debate can happen...

Your own counter-argument that 'Kishi is the author and will write his intended pairing' (basically) is a fact. It is a non-debatable argument and thus, by your own definition, out of place in a debate. I think that is the point that is being brought up. Certainly, you can reply to any claim with that statement, but it doesn't really get you anywhere.

I hope that I can stop repeating myself, and hopefully we can discuss the likelihood of NaruSaku happening as opposed to stating that it's canon/will be canon because of what a debatable source (read:manga) said...

I think if you reply with something other than 'Kishi can do anything' you will have a better time debating with people. We are trying to predict what we think he will do, not trying to point out the obvious that he is the one doing it. As far as people stating it is canon, I don't think many are doing that (though I could be wrong). I have seen perhaps one or two people claim it has already happened, but you are welcome to point out why that isn't the case, since that would be a suitable debate XD

[Phantom_999]

IMA GIRL

Yes you are gal pal!

Sorry for butting in, but I think I can kind of see where Darth Krypt is coming from. There is no point in agreeing with obvious statements like 'Kishi can do anything he wants' because it is a fact that everyone is aware of. You go on to say this:


Your own counter-argument that 'Kishi is the author and will write his intended pairing' (basically) is a fact. It is a non-debatable argument and thus, by your own definition, out of place in a debate. I think that is the point that is being brought up. Certainly, you can reply to any claim with that statement, but it doesn't really get you anywhere.


I think if you reply with something other than 'Kishi can do anything' you will have a better time debating with people. We are trying to predict what we think he will do, not trying to point out the obvious that he is the one doing it. As far as people stating it is canon, I don't think many are doing that (though I could be wrong). I have seen perhaps one or two people claim it has already happened, but you are welcome to point out why that isn't the case, since that would be a suitable debate XD

You still haven't answered my question What sig/avatar is that?

[Rocket]

Umm, minasan... this is a debate thread about NS, not a debate thread about, well, debate ._. but w/e :S

I need to get my "troll" on for just a second...

A-hem...

UMADBRO?! (lolj/k)

IMA GIRL

LOL merry-san I think he's talking about this:

Umadbro? --Click here to view--

Or more specifically, this:

LOL you got trolled --Click here to view--

Anyways, moving on.

[LegendaryArcanine42]

Sorry for butting in, but I think I can kind of see where Darth Krypt is coming from. There is no point in agreeing with obvious statements like 'Kishi can do anything he wants' because it is a fact that everyone is aware of. You go on to say this:


Your own counter-argument that 'Kishi is the author and will write his intended pairing' (basically) is a fact. It is a non-debatable argument and thus, by your own definition, out of place in a debate. I think that is the point that is being brought up. Certainly, you can reply to any claim with that statement, but it doesn't really get you anywhere.


I think if you reply with something other than 'Kishi can do anything' you will have a better time debating with people. We are trying to predict what we think he will do, not trying to point out the obvious that he is the one doing it. As far as people stating it is canon, I don't think many are doing that (though I could be wrong). I have seen perhaps one or two people claim it has already happened, but you are welcome to point out why that isn't the case, since that would be a suitable debate XD

O.o You're good...

But I might as well have a crack at it... let's see...

We all know Sakura cares for Naruto, but she also cares for everyone she's around as well... They might have a very strong bond but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will end up with each other... Naruto may forever be banished to the "friend-zone"...

Besides, with all their bickering and stuff it seems to be resembling sibling love more than actual love... And Sakura's "faux" confession seems to be evidence of her putting her own interests aside and trying to stop Naruto from getting hurt as opposed to trying to get her feelings across...

Also, we have to take into account Naruto's mentality... To him, Sasuke is his nakama, and his nakama are more important to him than he is to himself (The Cloud Ninja pounding on him is evidence of this mentality... and pretty much everything else in the manga...) Naruto knows that Sakura loves Sasuke (or at least has been given that impression) so why would he get in the way of what his Nakama (i.e. Sakura and possibly Sasuke) wants...

Finally, Naruto and Sakura are just TOO different... I think the only thing they have in common is that their both loud and that they both care about their Nakama... They clash way too much for anything more than a friendship to develop and if their relationship gets broken up, then their friendship is more than likely to follow and that will ruin the team dynamic...

Naruto and Sakura are more than responsible enough to know that breaking up the team EVEN FURTHER is not an option...

My name is Densetsu, thank you for listening

[FoolishYoungling]

O.o You're good...

But I might as well have a crack at it... let's see...

We all know Sakura cares for Naruto, but she also cares for everyone she's around as well... They might have a very strong bond but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will end up with each other... Naruto may forever be banished to the "friend-zone"...

Besides, with all their bickering and stuff it seems to be resembling sibling love more than actual love... And Sakura's "faux" confession seems to be evidence of her putting her own interests aside and trying to stop Naruto from getting hurt as opposed to trying to get her feelings across...

Also, we have to take into account Naruto's mentality... To him, Sasuke is his nakama, and his nakama are more important to him than he is to himself (The Cloud Ninja pounding on him is evidence of this mentality... and pretty much everything else in the manga...) Naruto knows that Sakura loves Sasuke (or at least has been given that impression) so why would he get in the way of what his Nakama (i.e. Sakura and possibly Sasuke) wants...

Finally, Naruto and Sakura are just TOO different... I think the only thing they have in common is that their both loud and that they both care about their Nakama... They clash way too much for anything more than a friendship to develop and if their relationship gets broken up, then their friendship is more than likely to follow and that will ruin the team dynamic...

Naruto and Sakura are more than responsible enough to know that breaking up the team EVEN FURTHER is not an option...

My name is Densetsu, thank you for listening

Naruto is Sakura's Nakama then... good fight?

[LegendaryArcanine42]

Naruto is Sakura's Nakama then... good fight?

I'm going to assume that you were implying that Sakura would take into account Naruto's feelings and go through with the relationship as "scheduled"...

However, due to the fact that Sakura is a lot more level-headed (though I use the term loosely) than Naruto... She would insist that going out with him would ruin any chance of their friendship being the same again and she just can't take that chance. Naruto would then respect that opinion and leave her be, like he always does... I've been down that road many times, it's called being stuck in the "friend-zone"...

It hurts, but it happens :3

[Anguyen92]

Finally, Naruto and Sakura are just TOO different... I think the only thing they have in common is that their both loud and that they both care about their Nakama... They clash way too much for anything more than a friendship to develop and if their relationship gets broken up, then their friendship is more than likely to follow and that will ruin the team dynamic...

Naruto and Sakura are more than responsible enough to know that breaking up the team EVEN FURTHER is not an option...

My name is Densetsu, thank you for listening

Well, one could argue the same thing with Naruhina on the whole opposites attract or detract which quite frankly is a weak point to make. No offense man, you got good points up there, but I keep hearing the whole opposites thing, it's honestly weak imo.

For me, the way I see a pairing relationship of any kind, whether it is romantic or not, work is on the basis of how they interact. Are they friendly with each other? Do they talk with each other a lot? Do they know exactly what to do if the other person is in a certain mood of such, whether it is perverted, sad, acting foolish yet funny, is in denial with their abilities, etc? And besides, for the most part, Naruto and Sakura are professionals at work. They know to discard their relationship with each other to get the objective done in missions. And besides, at best, if it does not work out, then they could just be the two good friends again, one who's perverted and one who beats up the perverted dude for being perverted. You never know, unless they try.

So to sum up all of this block of words, Naruto and Sakura has that instant chemistry that other pairings can't force. Its just natural and that both of them are themselves when they are interacting with each other.

However, due to the fact that Sakura is a lot more level-headed (though I use the term loosely) than Naruto... She would insist that going out with him would ruin any chance of their friendship being the same again and she just can't take that chance. Naruto would then respect that opinion and leave her be, like he always does... I've been down that road many times, it's called being stuck in the "friend-zone"...

Yeah, that sucks and sometimes being in the friend-zone could actually cause the friendship to go down because someone did something stupid to the other. I've been guilty of that.

Edited by Anguyen92, 22 October 2011 - 10:37 PM.

[FoolishYoungling]

I'm going to assume that you were implying that Sakura would take into account Naruto's feelings and go through with the relationship as "scheduled"...

However, due to the fact that Sakura is a lot more level-headed (though I use the term loosely) than Naruto... She would insist that going out with him would ruin any chance of their friendship being the same again and she just can't take that chance. Naruto would then respect that opinion and leave her be, like he always does... I've been down that road many times, it's called being stuck in the "friend-zone"...

It hurts, but it happens :3

1) Sakura cares more about Naruto's feelings than her own

spoiler --Click here to view--

2) are you forgetting about what Kushina said to naruto about picking girls?

[ciardha]

Thanks for reminding us of the 'evidence', you guys! Btw, I'll never understand how that sign Konohamaru made means girlfriend.

It's meant that in Japanese culture since at least the Meiji era. It has two symbolic meanings in reference to a girlfriend or female lover- one romantic, the other a bit crude. The romantic is connected to the pan Asian myth of the red string of fate that ties two people together romantically. The cruder meaning is a symbolically saying that they are heading toward or in a sexual relationship (note the resemblance to an erection). Both meanings go back to at least the Meiji era, probably earlier. It's because of the cruder meaning that Sakura got hacked off- note how the position of the finger emphasizes Konohamaru's mind is going toward the cruder meaning. We also see Gamakichi using it at one point when he's talking about Naruto and Sakura, but he uses the less overtly crude version.

[LegendaryArcanine42]

@Anguyen (I'm gonna give you a brohug because we've both been there...)

But back to this topic... Firstly, when I said different... I meant that their views, attitudes, etc. They're all completely different... Now that would complement each other in most pairings, but they're both way too Seme for it to complement!

I could honestly just see a relationship between them being made up of arguments over the light bill and ANGRY SEX^TM

While they are friendly with each other, most friends don't knock each other a few miles away (no matter how funny it seems) And yes they do talk with each other a lot, what would they talk about in their relationship? Do they have a good sense of empathy? Damn right they do... But empathy can only get you so far, if you're too pig-headed or angry to do anything about it you're hurting yourself and the person you're supposed to care about!

With NaruHina (using it as an example, because everybody believes I'm a NaruHina fan ¬_¬) They are ALSO different, but they complement each other.

Hinata's calm nature would sooth Naruto's anger if he were to get angry (from the past, we've seen how much of a problem that is...) and Naruto's boisterous personality would break Hinata free from her shy inner shell...

Hinata has never been abusive to Naruto (aside from an accidental headbutt), Naruto and Hinata would be able to form a relationship from scratch, which is MILES better than carrying some baggage and finally Hinata seems to know Naruto inside and out (STALKER ALERT!!!) but Naruto does need to improve how well he knows Hinata's emotions...

Both pairings have their flaws but a NaruHina relationship would be more realistic and balanced than a NaruSaku one...

@NaruSaku1 That's not actually true... Sakura cares more for Naruto's wellbeing than his opinion. Don't get me wrong, his opinion does matter to her, but Naruto wouldn't let his opinion override hers and she knows better than anyone not to try and change Naruto's mind, once he's determined...

Oh and as much as the Kushina sentiment means a lot to Naruto, his unbelievably thickheaded nature would not allow him to interpret that properly, and his own drive and determination would convince him that he was doing the right thing... Unless of course Iruka or Hinata stated otherwise, which would make a hell of a plot twist

[Rocket]

It's meant that in Japanese culture since at least the Meiji era. It has two symbolic meanings in reference to a girlfriend or female lover- one romantic, the other a bit crude. The romantic is connected to the pan Asian myth of the red string of fate that ties two people together romantically. The cruder meaning is a symbolically saying that they are heading toward or in a sexual relationship (note the resemblance to an erection). Both meanings go back to at least the Meiji era, probably earlier. It's because of the cruder meaning that Sakura got hacked off- note how the position of the finger emphasizes Konohamaru's mind is going toward the cruder meaning. We also see Gamakichi using it at one point when he's talking about Naruto and Sakura, but he uses the less overtly crude version.

There are some things Konohamaru shouldn't know about O.o

[LegendaryArcanine42]

There are some things Konohamaru shouldn't know about O.o

Konohamaru is a master in the art of "Oiroke no Jutsu", why would he not know about the realm beyond that of mortal pervertedness...

He is enlightened...

[Anguyen92]

Hinata's calm nature would sooth Naruto's anger if he were to get angry (from the past, we've seen how much of a problem that is...) and Naruto's boisterous personality would break Hinata free from her shy inner shell...

Hinata has never been abusive to Naruto (aside from an accidental headbutt), Naruto and Hinata would be able to form a relationship from scratch, which is MILES better than carrying some baggage and finally Hinata seems to know Naruto inside and out (STALKER ALERT!!!) but Naruto does need to improve how well he knows Hinata's emotions...

Both pairings have their flaws but a NaruHina relationship would be more realistic and balanced than a NaruSaku one...

All right, fair points. However, and I'm going to go the opposite direction on this one, just give me a moment to stretch out all of my options. What if Naruto's bosterious personality just runs over Hinata's calm and fragile manner which lead into just being a yes-person for Naruto and just agrees in whatever he does, which sometimes the action would be very stupid and unnecessary? As a result, he's going to figuratively run her over, feelings-wise, which may not equal a healthy relationship. Narusaku, though actually, is not a healthy relationship as well, but it is the most logical and has the most chemistry, imo.

Quite frankly, I think Naruto actually likes it when he argues against someone whether it was Sasuke in the past, Kiba (from what I saw in the fillers), Tsunade, and Sakura. He needs someone to combat against his nature and manner and there's only two people alive who are not his enemies that can actually calm him down using brutal force and words, which actually works (Tsunade and Sakura).

Now for bolded #2, if Hinata actually does know him inside and out, then why didn't she help him in his endeavors (helping him retrieve Sasuke or that Rasenshuriken training) or be supportive in them. It seems to me that she does not know the dynamics that the old Team 7 used to have or if she did, then she could try to somewhat fit into them, but I don't think Kishi is going to do something like that though late in the series. Also does it seem like in a pairings-manner, not a friend/acquaintances manner, that Naruto is interested in Hinata's emotions, enough to justify it being in a pairing contendah?

Edited by Anguyen92, 22 October 2011 - 11:14 PM.

[FoolishYoungling]

@Anguyen (I'm gonna give you a brohug because we've both been there...)

But back to this topic... Firstly, when I said different... I meant that their views, attitudes, etc. They're all completely different... Now that would complement each other in most pairings, but they're both way too Seme for it to complement!

I could honestly just see a relationship between them being made up of arguments over the light bill and ANGRY SEX^TM

While they are friendly with each other, most friends don't knock each other a few miles away (no matter how funny it seems) And yes they do talk with each other a lot, what would they talk about in their relationship? Do they have a good sense of empathy? Damn right they do... But empathy can only get you so far, if you're too pig-headed or angry to do anything about it you're hurting yourself and the person you're supposed to care about!

With NaruHina (using it as an example, because everybody believes I'm a NaruHina fan ¬_¬) They are ALSO different, but they complement each other.

Hinata's calm nature would sooth Naruto's anger if he were to get angry (from the past, we've seen how much of a problem that is...) and Naruto's boisterous personality would break Hinata free from her shy inner shell...

Hinata has never been abusive to Naruto (aside from an accidental headbutt), Naruto and Hinata would be able to form a relationship from scratch, which is MILES better than carrying some baggage and finally Hinata seems to know Naruto inside and out (STALKER ALERT!!!) but Naruto does need to improve how well he knows Hinata's emotions...

Both pairings have their flaws but a NaruHina relationship would be more realistic and balanced than a NaruSaku one...

@NaruSaku1 That's not actually true... Sakura cares more for Naruto's wellbeing than his opinion. Don't get me wrong, his opinion does matter to her, but Naruto wouldn't let his opinion override hers and she knows better than anyone not to try and change Naruto's mind, once he's determined...

Oh and as much as the Kushina sentiment means a lot to Naruto, his unbelievably thickheaded nature would not allow him to interpret that properly, and his own drive and determination would convince him that he was doing the right thing... Unless of course Iruka or Hinata stated otherwise, which would make a hell of a plot twist

Are you a NH or NS support bro? You support NH by acting like a NS scene has never happened and Hinata is the girl Naruto likes, you also are stating that you think Sakura hitting Naruto isn't what naruto wants,

spoiler --Click here to view--

if thats true then he must hate his mom (which he told he loved)..

Edited by NaruSaku1, 22 October 2011 - 11:13 PM.

[LegendaryArcanine42]

All right, fair points. However, and I'm going to go the opposite direction on this one, just give me a moment to stretch out all of my options. What if Naruto's bosterious personality just runs over Hinata's calm and fragile manner which lead into just being a yes-person for Naruto and just agrees in whatever he does, which sometimes the action would be very stupid and unnecessary? As a result, he's going to figurtivly run her over, feelings-wise, which may not equal a healthy relationship. Narusaku, though actually, is not a healthy relationship as well, but it is the most logical and has the most chemestry, imo.

Quite frankly, I think Naruto actually likes it when he argues against someone whether it was Sasuke in the past, Kiba (from what I saw in the fillers), Tsunade, and Sakura. He needs someone to combat against his nature and manner and there's only two people alive who are not his enemies that can actually calm him down using brutal force, which actually works (Tsunade and Sakura).

Now for bolded #2, if Hinata actually does know him inside and out, then why didn't she help him in his endeavors (helping him retrieve Sasuke or that Rasenshuriken training) or be supportive in them. It seems to me that she does not know the dynamics that the old Team 7 used to have or if she did, then she could try to somewhat fit into them, but I don't think Kishi is going to do something like that though late in the series.

By "supportive" I assume you mean, actively supportive right? Hinata is not someone that can always rely on actions to portray what she's feeling... The poor girl is too shy to even have a conversation with Naruto

But wheneve Hinata can deliver, she does... A relationship with Naruto would do her a world of good to be honest, and Naruto needs the change of pace... He's been arguing with everybody for ages and he'd get sick and tired of arguing with someone, and another thing with Naruto is how he deals with shy people...

When Hinata (or any other shy person) does not speak up Naruto asks her (them) to speak louder, and if she (oh, you get it...) doesn't say what's really on her mind he asks her again until she does... That is one of the many traits that Naruto has formed on his nindo.

And as a side note... all those bumps to the noggin ain't doing any good for Naruto's health ¬_¬

@NaruSaku1 I support both, but I'm fighting for NH (and any other pairing) because everyone is NS here... And just because he doesn't wanna follow his mom's advice, doesn't mean he doesn't love his mom, where did you get that from?

Edited by Densetsu-Kun, 22 October 2011 - 11:18 PM.

[FoolishYoungling]

By "supportive" I assume you mean, actively supportive right? Hinata is not someone that can always rely on actions to portray what she's feeling... The poor girl is too shy to even have a conversation with Naruto

But wheneve Hinata can deliver, she does... A relationship with Naruto would do her a world of good to be honest, and Naruto needs the change of pace... He's been arguing with everybody for ages and he'd get sick and tired of arguing with someone, and another thing with Naruto is how he deals with shy people...

When Hinata (or any other shy person) does not speak up Naruto asks her (them) to speak louder, and if she (oh, you get it...) doesn't say what's really on her mind he asks her again until she does... That is one of the many traits that Naruto has formed on his nindo.

And as a side note... all those bumps to the noggin ain't doing any good for Naruto's health ¬_¬

So your saying that Kishi should ingore the fighting of the Great War in these last episodes to give a filler girl some attention?