9679 replies to this topic

[LegendaryArcanine42]

@everyonewhosaysnarutobeingcomparedtoanotheranimethatinspireditisanillconceivedc
onceptandshouldnotbenotedasadecentcounterargument...

If you could make out what that says then you know who this is addressed at, I used the examples of other anime to highlight the likelihood of various different canonical options when it comes to pairings...

The most prominent of these being Dragonball Z because I am more familiar with this one and due to other points I've brought up already... of course I could use stuff like Skip Beat or Gundam, but I am not that familiar with them.

Saying that DBZ has no credibility or that it is a weak comparison to use simply due to the fact that we are talking about Naruto is unfair. Kishimoto has already used multiple DBZ references, what's to stop him from applying more?

Conversely, what's stopping him from going in a completely different direction?

These were the points I was trying to bring up, from a neutral standpoint, but i believe that my intentions were misinterpreted, right?

Also, no, I'm not trolling...

[FoolishYoungling]

@everyonewhosaysnarutobeingcomparedtoanotheranimethatinspireditisanillconceivedc
onceptandshouldnotbenotedasadecentcounterargument...

If you could make out what that says then you know who this is addressed at, I used the examples of other anime to highlight the likelihood of various different canonical options when it comes to pairings...

The most prominent of these being Dragonball Z because I am more familiar with this one and due to other points I've brought up already... of course I could use stuff like Skip Beat or Gundam, but I am not that familiar with them.

Saying that DBZ has no credibility or that it is a weak comparison to use simply due to the fact that we are talking about Naruto is unfair. Kishimoto has already used multiple DBZ references, what's to stop him from applying more?

Conversely, what's stopping him from going in a completely different direction?

These were the points I was trying to bring up, from a neutral standpoint, but i believe that my intentions were misinterpreted, right?

Also, no, I'm not trolling...

This is NS debate Thread, please don't discuss this here..

Edited by NaruSaku1, 21 October 2011 - 12:39 AM.

[Fenris]

Uh o.o
Anyway... how do you guys think NS will happen?

[Derock]

This thread is ONLY for debating NaruSaku against other rival pairings. Other topics such as Naruto compared and contrast towards other manga/anime series should be somewhere else. Thank you.

[LegendaryArcanine42]

I just explained that I'm using other anime and what happens in them to back up my own thoughts on whether NaruSaku will be Canon or not!

Am I just not making it clear enough or something?

[Fenris]

I just explained that I'm using other anime and what happens in them to back up my own thoughts on whether NaruSaku will be Canon or not!

Am I just not making it clear enough or something?

I get the whole pairing with DBZ stuff you're saying, and how it could be "related" to a certain degree, but I really don't think it will have anything to do with Kishi's final endgame pairing - since Naruto is a totally different manga.

But I do believe that NS will definitely be canon, my confidence in it is high.

[Super Boom]

I think the next part I don't quite understand though. Are you saying that Sakura thought of Sasuke during the lover-nin discussion because of her negative thoughts for him verses Naruto? I guess I'm confused since the the lover-nin set the tone for a discussion about romantic feelings, which Sakura admitted to having someone, to the lover-nin describing how he would imagine that person to be. She thinks of Sasuke and feels bad because he isn't a good person like was described. I guess I don't see the connection of Sasuke's bond being in jeopardy and her romantic feelings and guilt over him. Though it might be possible for her to think of Sasuke and feel guilty if her comment of having someone is separate altogether, I didn't really read it that way.

I guess my post was little confusing, LOL. Sorry about that, I guess what I meant was that she thought of Sasuke in that scene rather than Naruto due to Sasuke's current situation.
For example, for the sake of this argument let's say she loves Naruto and Sasuke equally. I'm not sure if that's the case, but I'd say her feelings for them are equal in completely different ways right now (at the very least, she cares more about Naruto than Sasuke, as we see by her actions in the Iron Country Arc). Anyways, I took her initial "Oh, there's someone else I like/love..." as her just sort of her blurting out the first response that came to her head, since she's had feelings for a guy for a long time now. When he brings up the guy she likes being a great guy, her mind is more likely to move to the one she has feelings for who isn't a great guy over the one who clearly is. I guess I think it's a matter of Sakura focusing more on the negative than the positive in her life.

So what will be the big hitter that will end her romantic love for him once and for all? It will be something, of course, but I can't really see what it will be at this point.

I suppose it could be many things, but, like you said, I don't think another death attempt will do anything, if it even happens. Not only would it be redundant writing, but it wouldn't make sense for Sakura to be struggling with her feelings after three death attempts, but resolve them after a fourth. It might be Sasuke acknowledging her that allows her to move on, but I think another Naruto vs. Sasuke confrontation could potentially be enough to finally convince her that she loves Naruto, if she isn't aware of it yet. At the very least, it will show her who she loves more. As for getting over Sasuke, I think the bench scene might play a big role, if it happens again. If not, I think something will have to happen to undermine the romantic feelings she had/has for Sasuke before the end of the manga.

@Densetsu-kun: It's not necessarily that using DB(Z) pairing comparisons is a poor argument, it's just that, other than their respective roles in the plot, there really is no comparison past Naruto/Goku. It's been said, but there wasn't a love triangle in DB(Z). The romance there was really underplayed, as we see with how Bulma and Vegeta got together. Also, Chi-chi has more shared traits with Sakura than Hinata, for the most part, and Bulma was neither Goku's age peer nor love interest. On top of that, Vegeta can't really be thrown into the mix if you're doing a shipping comparison, since Vegeta wasn't really Goku's official rival until much later in the plot. Krillin/Kururin is a much better bet if you're using that comparison, seeing as how Kishimoto stated that he based Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry off of Goku and Krillin's.

Also, as far as Bleach/Yu-Yu Hakusho go, I guess my opinion doesn't really mean too much, since I only watched a few episodes of YYH, but I don't recall any similarities past them both being Bangsian fantasies. Manga tend to reuse the same characters, so unless it's something obvious like Shanks from OP and Gildarts from Fairy Tail, it's probably just a coincidence. But I could be wrong.

Also, I just told Vegeta you were comparing him to Sasuke...

Better hide... --Click here to view--

Edited by Boom...Winning, 21 October 2011 - 01:24 AM.

[FoolishYoungling]

Uh o.o
Anyway... how do you guys think NS will happen?

Sakura is going to ask me if she should do it, and I will say yes, thats how... but if I'm being honest, most likely forehead kiss or something he says about his parents

[Phantom_999]

LOL, you like to bring up DBZ comparisons, don't you? Not that it's bad thing, Kishi obviously took a lot of his ideas from it, as have countless other shounen manga. Anyways, this topic has been discussed like 9000 times ( ) on this thread, but I'll bring up the main counterpoints.

a.) The Chi-chi-Hinata/Bulma-Sakura comparisons only go as far as their relative roles in the plot and the amount of screentime they got. Their personalities are completely different. Chi-chi was never as shy as Hinata, in fact her attitude towards Goku was more similar to how Sakura fan-girled over Sasuke. On top of that, don't forget that Chi-chi kind of grew up to be a mega-tsundere. Between Hinata and Sakura, who fits that mold better?

b.) Goku never had feelings for Bulma, and there was a significant age difference between them as I recall. So there's really no comparing Naru/Saku to Goku/Bulma. In fact, I could argue that Chi-chi was the first girl Goku ever had feelings for. It's a poor argument, but it works pretty well as a counterpoint.

c.) There's no evidence that Kishi used DBZ as an inspiration for the romantic subplot. The only source he's cited for that aspect of the plot, from what I've heard, is Slam Dunk. I don't believe the love triangle was resolved in that manga, but I could be wrong.

Anyways, sorry if I'm sounding abrasive, I assume you're just playing devil's advocate by bringing this up. It's possible that it will turn that Kishi used DBZ as an inspiration for the romantic subplot in Naruto, but I don't there's enough evidence to say that right now. And even if it did turn out to be case, we don't know what part Kishi was inspired by. Maybe he's a fan of tsundere relationships.

Not that much of an age difference they just didn't look like a good couple and why would a Teen fall for a twelve year old anyway? She'd want a guy her age uless they wanted shotacon in that manga anyways some for NH fans this is their bread and butter I suppose Cause the got no developments to go on in the manga itself

[Fenris]

..Well with a lot of animes.. Like DBZ, Ranma 1/2, Inyuasha, .. they're all Tsundere pairings. It's only a matter of time that Naruto [NaruSaku] joins their collection.

[Madz]

So, I was watching an old poster of Naruto (it's somewhere in the first five chapters), where Naruto is shown on a toad, Sasuke on a snake and Sakura on a slug (though I'm majorly disappointed that till now Sakura has still not got a summoning contract with the slug )

So, drawing hypothesis from this:
As we know, the snake is more powerful than the frog, the slug is more powerful than the snake, and the frog is more powerful than the slug, (like the "paper, rock, scissors" sort of situation.)

If we are to take this fact in an emotional angle and draw parallels, this becomes very interesting.
a. Snake more powerful than frog - Sasuke still has a powerful hold over Naruto's feelings. Naruto cannot seem to let him go, despite everyone and all the 'bad' things that Sasuke had done.
b. Slug more powerful than snake - Sakura has opened her eyes concerning Sasuke, and is going in the direction of releasing herself from his hold, even as go far as setting out to kill him.
c. Frog more powerful than slug - now, this is what we want, for Naruto to sweep Sakura's off her feet. That's another of the numerous reasons why NS will happen.

Just a crazy theory of mine

[Living Lavish]

Firstly, indeed I do enjoy comparing all manga to DBZ where applicable, POPO-SAMA HAS SENT ME ON THIS MISSHUN I MUST FOURFILL!!!

But on a serious note, I agree with the Tsundere factor, simply due to the fact that all the Naruto girls have inherent Tsundere traits (with the exception of Hinata, who I feel has Yandere potential, smexy no?)

But back to your point about Goku and the others, I honestly think that due to the core concept of Goku goes with Chichi and Vegeta goes with Bulma, as opposed to how the relationships are developed is what leads me to believe that if Kishi is following Toriyama's orders then we would end up with NaruHina...

But due to Kishimoto's reputation for "ZOMG PLOT TWISTS!" I think we will end up with NaruSaku when everybody thinks we've got NaruHina, or will we?

Oh and, I think Kishimoto was inspired by all of DBZ, whether he says so, or not...

This is a horribly superficial and surface argument that quickly breaks apart if you get into the slightest of details ; It's exactly as others as have said :

1) Goku never had romantic feelings for anyone else before ChiChi came along and proposed to him (well, made him remember that he promised to marry her at any rate) - Naruto was in love with Sakura at the beginning of the manga, well before he became aware of Hinata's feelings for him, and he was shown to retain those feelings AFTER said feelings WERE revealed to him.

2) Chichi's personality is much more like Sakura's ; even when she was younger and being bashful around Goku, she acted more like Sakura did when she was younger with her overt crush (blushing, bashful, but still openly fawning over the boy of her choice).

3) Bulma feelings for Vegeta were never depicted as a negative thing for her character ; also, Bulma became very forceful with Vegeta - she stopped being afraid of him well before he became a potential romantic interest of hers ; and by the time they got together, Bulma was every bit the Tsunderish character as ChiChi was (only with more yelling and less hitting).

The relationships in DBZ have strong women, who may have minor roles in the story, but definitely don't just role over for their husbands or stand idly by worshipping them and tending to their every needs. Just as in Kishimoto's canon relationships thus far, the woman is strong in her own right, and is respected by her husband/significant other.

plus: That Bulma/Vegeta originated as an attempt by Toriyama to spite his audience.

[Living Lavish]

As for her confession, I guess it boils down to how you would personally define a love confession in a manga like this, but I agree that her confession probably wasn't legitimate. At the same time though, I don't think she was lying about it either. It could be Kishi being a bad writer, but Sakura's reaction to Naruto's 'lying to yourself' comment was drawn very differently to her initial confession. I guess, if she was acting the whole time, I don't understand why her acting ability suddenly just got better after Naruto 'rejected her'. I guess I took it as an honest confession of existing feelings mixed with some attempted deception conducted at a very poor time with an ulterior motive. If that makes sense.

True story.

Thats how i see it (and many others) Naruto said he hated people who lie to themselves that highly pissed off Sakura becuz obviously she has serious feelings for him but at the same time she felt guilty she isn't truely in love with him. But im happy she defended her confused feelings an worry either way.

But her not caring about sasuke was not true and she wasn;t teing him rookie 9's decision.

She doesn't love him at this point. I think she showed feelings during the confession but she has yet to define what they mean to her. the confession just shows shes still doesn't know.

edit: spelling.

Edited by Living Lavish, 21 October 2011 - 09:16 AM.

[redkunai66]

can we stop kicking the dead horse? please- i liked dbz- but it was never for the romance =3=

anyways- as for how i see narusaku happening

- i really don't see anything major occuring between the two before the final battle- it won;t be romantic- rather friend-shipy. During the war- final confrontation between naruto and sasuke-does sakura become clear once and for all who it is she cares about the most, (i.e. trying to naruto's life instead of sasuke's ). Only after the war is over and the two are back to normal ninja life- does their relationship start going- they confirm their feelings for each other verbally- and the rest probably happens off screen- we'll get a time-skip by the end with their kids, something like the 1st day of their ninja school or when their kids get their head bands and sakura and naruto celebrating that with them. I'd be a good way to bring the series full circle.

Edited by redkunai66, 21 October 2011 - 08:23 AM.

[tricksie]

So, I was watching an old poster of Naruto (it's somewhere in the first five chapters), where Naruto is shown on a toad, Sasuke on a snake and Sakura on a slug (though I'm majorly disappointed that till now Sakura has still not got a summoning contract with the slug )

So, drawing hypothesis from this:
As we know, the snake is more powerful than the frog, the slug is more powerful than the snake, and the frog is more powerful than the slug, (like the "paper, rock, scissors" sort of situation.)

If we are to take this fact in an emotional angle and draw parallels, this becomes very interesting.
a. Snake more powerful than frog - Sasuke still has a powerful hold over Naruto's feelings. Naruto cannot seem to let him go, despite everyone and all the 'bad' things that Sasuke had done.
b. Slug more powerful than snake - Sakura has opened her eyes concerning Sasuke, and is going in the direction of releasing herself from his hold, even as go far as setting out to kill him.
c. Frog more powerful than slug - now, this is what we want, for Naruto to sweep Sakura's off her feet. That's another of the numerous reasons why NS will happen.

Just a crazy theory of mine

Also, from the Japanese story it's based off of, Jiraiya and Tsunade banded together to defeat Orochimaru. They use their frog magic and snake magic to overcome the snake magic! So your observations of the manga are very much supported by the old tale behind it!

[LegendaryArcanine42]

Not that much of an age difference they just didn't look like a good couple and why would a Teen fall for a twelve year old anyway? She'd want a guy her age uless they wanted shotacon in that manga anyways some for NH fans this is their bread and butter I suppose Cause the got no developments to go on in the manga itself

>Implying that I'm a NaruHina fan...

But I'm going to defend them just this once (although I don't believe that NaruHina will be canon)

There are moments (canon and non-canon) where Kishimoto hints to the fact that NaruHina could be canon, for example Hinata's fight against Pain (in which Naruto shows genuine concern for her, but that's not enough to go on...).

However, the NaruSaku moments in Naruto don't seem to be flooding in either, the point I'm making is that although both girls have "confessed" there isn't enough evidence to state which one Naruto will end up with... There's only baseless assumptions and opinions that are flying around...

What's stopping Naruto from ending up with both girls, or Temari... or even Gaara?

[Anguyen92]

However, the NaruSaku moments in Naruto don't seem to be flooding in either, the point I'm making is that although both girls have "confessed" there isn't enough evidence to state which one Naruto will end up with... There's only baseless assumptions and opinions that are flying around...
What's stopping Naruto from ending up with both girls, or Temari... or even Gaara?

Well, from this whole story, since chapter three, its been implied that Naruto has only feelings for one person and one person only and that is Sakura unless said otherwise, and if so, I need the proof. I'm willing to accept the other pairings, if Naruto has blatenly said in the manga that he does not love or have feelings with Sakura anymore.

I still stand by the fact, that, imo, no main pairings is going to be canon without Naruto and Sakura having a conversation with each other about sorting out their feelings and where they will go in the future.

As for the bolded, seriously? A harem? We got this decade-long pairings war and its going to end in a triangle or a possible rectangle? Every side might not be satisfied with that.

Edited by Anguyen92, 21 October 2011 - 03:38 PM.

[LegendaryArcanine42]

Well, from this whole story, since chapter three, its been implied that Naruto has only feelings for one person and one person only and that is Sakura unless said otherwise, and if so, I need the proof. I'm willing to accept the other pairings, if Naruto has blatenly said in the manga that he does not love or have feelings with Sakura anymore.

I still stand by the fact, that, imo, no main pairings is going to be canon without Naruto and Sakura having a conversation with each other about sorting out their feelings and where they will go in the future.

As for the bolded, seriously? A harem? We got this decade-long pairings war and its going to end in a triangle or a possible rectangle? Every side might not be satisfied with that.

Firstly, it's an implication like you just said... You can't obtain a final answer with just implications and theories, you need CONCRETE EVIDENCE^TM to get to that answer...

Also, Naruto's a teenager, he's prone to changing his mind as often as weather changing in Britain ¬_¬ (Seriously, the weather in Britain is a problem, never come here in Autumn...) so therefore, he could say he loves someone and move onto someone else as soon as the tide changes.
He could even end up with a "certain someone" if Sakura expresses her feelings for someone else, because we all know what Naruto does best... He sacrifices and pushes aside his own feelings for the sake of his NAKAMA^TM.

IT'S SO SHOUNEN, IT'S UNBELIEVEABUBBLE!!!

Finally, Kishimoto could write a freaking harem if he wanted to... Heck, he could even bring Jiraiya back from the dead and we'd have to accept it as canon and carry on with our own crackpot theories (knock on wood, KNOCK THE WOOD, DAMN IT!!!)

But like I've said since I've first started here... Hinata deserves a chance, right? *shot*

[Anguyen92]

^^ Hmmmm, very good points indeed but again, I'm willing to accept the other pairings if he said that he does not love Sakura anymore, until then, I'm going to keep arguing on. But yeah, if Sakura decides to love someone else, he's just has going to move on and try to get the feeling that he once had with Sakura with someone else, but that might be hard to do in his pov.

Though, I would love the idea of bringing Jiraiya back to life somehow. That dude shouldn't die in the first place, no matter the positives of it. He was very close to dating Tsunade.

[merryGOflava]

Firstly, it's an implication like you just said... You can't obtain a final answer with just implications and theories, you need CONCRETE EVIDENCE^TM to get to that answer...

:o.....first part.... http://www.mangaread.../chapter-3.html
http://www.mangaread.../chapter-3.html
http://www.mangaread...hapter-458.html
http://www.mangaread...hapter-457.html
http://www.mangaread...hapter-457.html

hes liked her this long i mean why switch the girl now??? sakura has been supporting naruto through thick and thin. something hinata has only done ONCE. why would he change girls??? what? if every girl just decides to jump in and save him will he have to always change his mind??

Edited by merryGOflava, 21 October 2011 - 04:06 PM.