723 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Amateratsu or not this is the god of narutoverse we are talking about and it still didn't reach his last form so I agree the juubi isn't done for.

Pretty much. I'm still a little shocked that Madara is just chilling. In fact, I'm shocked that Hashirama only have himself in front of Madara, as it to say, "I can take you on alone." So if that's true, this war is too easy.

For the record, when I say heel turn for Sasuke, think as lessen of two evils. I'm not saying Sasuke is going to go all bad like last arc, but it's that kind of bad that says, "If you're not with us, you're against us." So yeah, Sasuke won't be that bad, but he's not on Naruto's side, which to many, it's bad. If I learn anything from Hashirama, it's that no one is truly bad, it's just that we all have different idea to bring peace.

Either way, it's bad, no matter how we see it. He can have no motive for all we know, but you can't brush off the idea to become third party of the war like nothing. Again, I start to think that the excuse "No matter what you do, I will always love you" could be a way for Sasuke to pretty much so anything, so long he's making up for Itachi. It's funngg because we have people who are too relaxed that he won't turn bad or be on his side, but we also have those that he will turn bad or whatever. In other words, it's a split decision, and you should acknowledge the possibility, which I threw out there for you.

[Awes9]

I'm going to lough myself off when it's proven that Sasuke's intention are not like someone as Tobi, Madara, Pain or worst Orochimaru.
I believe Sasuke's intention are similar to those of Danzō with a lest intense darkness, honestly those who believe Sasuke is going to become evil again are setting themselves up for a huge disappointment, since the furthest he might become is a dictator who doesn't care what others think who only wants to create peace on his own selfish way disregarding others feelings meaning that if Naruto and Sasuke fight isn't for the tittle of Hokage it would be a clash of ideal.
 
I'm a user who goes from indifferent to dislike towards Sasuke character and even I can understand that Kishi won't make Sasuke a full flag villain unless he is planing to kill him off, so even if Sasuke takes possession of the Ten Tail it will mostly be because he wants to revive everyone in a dream world without the killing everyone in his way part to avoid creating another Tobi/Obito in himself.

I always said Naruto and Sasuke's fight would be an ideological battle and I agree with you Kishi won't make Sasuke cross a certain line but that doesn't mean intent won't be there, he tried to kill Sakura and it didn't work not because of himself but of external factors. As for your comment about the dictator,I don't know about you but dictators are pretty evil from my perspective no matter what their intentions are, it means for Sasuke that the end justifies the means and it will most likely get ugly so I disagree with you evil is evil no matter what and there's no pure evil characters in Naruto anyway.

[Don-kun]

I be honest I being reading your prediction regarding Sasuke and the only person can prove that your prediction are right is Kishimoto himself, I personally believe that Naruto and Sasuke will have different view on how to accomplish true peace, so with this I'm letting you know that I completely disagree with your prediction of what might happen with Sasuke and like I said the only person will tell us if I was wrong or right is disagreeing with you is Kishimoto himself.

 

So I disagree with you about Tsunade and now with Sasuke, so lets wait on see who was right.

 

 

@Awes9

 

My definition of dictator is someone who does not believe in democratic election or consider the idea of the majority, my view on Sasuke as a dictator was in the sense of him saying that he doesn't care what other says or think about him he is going to be Hokage regardless of anyone's opinion.

 

I know how evil dictator can be after all I'm from Panama, but I didn't mean what I said in that way.

I mean that he might try to use any means to become a leader even when that means will not imply killing innocent people.

I regards of the first part of your post, well I wasn't saying that his past will be forgetting is more like I don't believe Kishi will make him sink any lower unless he really wants Sasuke's redemption to be trough death.

Edited by Don-kun, 15 June 2013 - 12:26 AM.

[redragon88]

I'm going to lough myself off when it's proven that Sasuke's intention are not like someone as Tobi, Madara, Pain or worst Orochimaru.

I believe Sasuke's intention are similar to those of Danzō with a lest intense darkness, honestly those who believe Sasuke is going to become evil again are setting themselves up for a huge disappointment, since the furthest he might become is a dictator who doesn't care what others think who only wants to create peace on his own selfish way disregarding others feelings meaning that if Naruto and Sasuke fight isn't for the tittle of Hokage it would be a clash of ideal.

 

I'm a user who goes from indifferent to dislike towards Sasuke character and even I can understand that Kishi won't make Sasuke a full flag villain unless he is planing to kill him off, so even if Sasuke takes possession of the Ten Tail it will mostly be because he wants to revive everyone in a dream world without the killing everyone in his way part to avoid creating another Tobi/Obito in himself.

 

You're saying that Sasuke won't become another Obito or Madara, and yet you say he'll create a dream world? Isn't that a contradiction you're making for yourself.

 

I can't say what Sasuke has planned but at the very least I know it's on the dark path, that's the whole point of Sasuke's journey, even when he thinks he's on the side of justice his decisions are based on wrongful concepts. So it's up to Naruto to make him realize the error in his type of thinking.

 

Remember the tension in their fight at the end of Part 1? It was pretty amazing and Sasuke wasn't some villain, he was just a boy who was making a mistake while Naruto was trying to make him realize it. I think that's the type of tension Kishi will seek to recreate for the final fight.

 

Sasuke already said he doesn't care what people think, so he won't try to reason with them. And if he finds opposition from those people then he'll just choose to fight back, just like he fought against Naruto back in the day for getting in the way of his revenge.

[Awes9]

To don kun : Wait I never made any prediction about Sasuke, I said in chapter 628 when Sasuke was supposedly good that Naruto and Sasuke's fight will be an ideological battle and you just said the same, I think you confuse me with someone else.

Edited by Awes9, 15 June 2013 - 12:14 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I always said Naruto and Sasuke's fight would be an ideological battle and I agree with you Kishi won't make Sasuke cross a certain line but that doesn't mean intent won't be there, he tried to kill Sakura and it didn't work not because of himself but of external factors. As for your comment about the dictator,I don't know about you but dictators are pretty evil from my perspective no matter what their intentions are, it means for Sasuke that the end justifies the means and it will most likely get ugly so I disagree with you evil is evil no matter what and there's no pure evil characters in Naruto anyway.

Again, if you're not with us, you're against us. That's how Naruto universe creates evil or should I say "evil". That's what this manga has been for a long time. That said Sasuke could do something soon and the guy from another forum also mentioned that we need to know the answer from their talk about why Orochimaru attacked Konoha. To me, I feel that's the key to Sasuke's reason to do this. I feel like he used the answer he got from Orochimaru and then, the whole talk with Hashirama to give him the best possible answer for himself. That could be the reason why Juugo don't know his true plan but he knows there's more to it. Again, if he knows, he would have said "Hokage", but he didn't, which raised more questions. Sai caught on easily, which again, he was absent to not ruin any momentum Team 7 had. Now, all bets are off.

[Awes9]

Again, if you're not with us, you're against us. That's how Naruto universe creates evil or should I say "evil". That's what this manga has been for a long time. That said Sasuke could do something soon and the guy from another forum also mentioned that we need to know the answer from their talk about why Orochimaru attacked Konoha. To me, I feel that's the key to Sasuke's reason to do this. I feel like he used the answer he got from Orochimaru and then, the whole talk with Hashirama to give him the best possible answer for himself. That could be the reason why Juugo don't know his true plan but he knows there's more to it. Again, if he knows, he would have said "Hokage", but he didn't, which raised more questions. Sai caught on easily, which again, he was absent to not ruin any momentum Team 7 had. Now, all bets are off.

yeah the talk with Orochimaru is key here, I think both of them are allies and not one waiting to backstab the other I suppose that's why I tought Oro acted ooc with the kage, there are really hidden motives behind Oro and Sasuke's actions, still we will have to wait to know their real plan.

[TouKen4Life3g]

yeah the talk with Orochimaru is key here, I think both of them are allies and not one waiting to backstab the other I suppose that's why I tought Oro acted ooc with the kage, there are really hidden motives behind Oro and Sasuke's actions, still we will have to wait to know their real plan.

Exactly. Um, someone refresh my memory, but Orochimaru did gain a new body from Zetsu, right? That means he has to wait for 3 years to go for another body, right?

[Atheck]

 

You're saying that Sasuke won't become another Obito or Madara, and yet you say he'll create a dream world? Isn't that a contradiction you're making for yourself.

 

I can't say what Sasuke has planned but at the very least I know it's on the dark path, that's the whole point of Sasuke's journey, even when he thinks he's on the side of justice his decisions are based on wrongful concepts. So it's up to Naruto to make him realize the error in his type of thinking.

 

Remember the tension in their fight at the end of Part 1? It was pretty amazing and Sasuke wasn't some villain, he was just a boy who was making a mistake while Naruto was trying to make him realize it. I think that's the type of tension Kishi will seek to recreate for the final fight.

 

Sasuke already said he doesn't care what people think, so he won't try to reason with them. And if he finds opposition from those people then he'll just choose to fight back, just like he fought against Naruto back in the day for getting in the way of his revenge.

 

To be fair, Sasuke did have somewhat of a point back then when he argued that his personal vendettas were unrelated to Naruto and that he would not become powerful enough to fight against Itachi if he remained Konoha. Let's be honest here, if he had chosen to maintain his allegiances with them his growth would be constrained as he would only have Kakashi who could properly instruct him. Sasuke would have essentially become a duplicate and he would never have the opportunity to acquire Orochimaru's snake based abilities and accelerated healing rate which were both critical for his survival in the fight against his brother. Naruto would probably have resumed his training with Jiraiya to prepare for Akatsuki's inevitable attack against him and so Sasuke would have fallen far behind eventually.

 

Aside from the decree given relating to missing ninja being executed the only possible grievance that Naruto and Konoha would have that would have any logical basis to itself (one that is not emotionally motivated like Team 7's unwillingness to lose one of its member) would be Sasuke potentially endangering the village by sacrificing his body and doujutsu to Orochimaru.

[Don-kun]

 

You're saying that Sasuke won't become another Obito or Madara, and yet you say he'll create a dream world? Isn't that a contradiction you're making for yourself.

 

I can't say what Sasuke has planned but at the very least I know it's on the dark path, that's the whole point of Sasuke's journey, even when he thinks he's on the side of justice his decisions are based on wrongful concepts. So it's up to Naruto to make him realize the error in his type of thinking.

 

Remember the tension in their fight at the end of Part 1? It was pretty amazing and Sasuke wasn't some villain, he was just a boy who was making a mistake while Naruto was trying to make him realize it. I think that's the type of tension Kishi will seek to recreate for the final fight.

 

Sasuke already said he doesn't care what people think, so he won't try to reason with them. And if he finds opposition from those people then he'll just choose to fight back, just like he fought against Naruto back in the day for getting in the way of his revenge.

Yes it's kind of contradicting but he might see it in a way of returning everything the way it was before all these madness take place in a selfish way sure, not saying that what he might do is the right thing, I'm saying that what he might do will be wrong with the though that he is doing it for good creating a scenario where him and Naruto will have to clash because they have different ideal of achieving true peace. But I only consider this scenario IF he takes control over the Juubi  or become the Juubi Jinchuuriki for any reason.

I said this in the past, after Sasuke's talk with Itachi and now Hashirama Sasuke still wanting to be on the evil path will only mean a sure death, but him trying to obtain peace the wrong way with out killing innocent people the way Obito did would be a great way of keeping him gray while being a wrecking force for the main character goal.

 

To don kun : Wait I never made any prediction about Sasuke, I said in chapter 628 when Sasuke was supposedly good that Naruto and Sasuke's fight will be an ideological battle and you just said the same, I think you confuse me with someone else.

I was referring to NSFL no you sorry.

Edited by Don-kun, 15 June 2013 - 01:22 AM.

[Awes9]

I be honest I being reading your prediction regarding Sasuke and the only person can prove that your prediction are right is Kishimoto himself, I personally believe that Naruto and Sasuke will have different view on how to accomplish true peace, so with this I'm letting you know that I completely disagree with your prediction of what might happen with Sasuke and like I said the only person will tell us if I was wrong or right is disagreeing with you is Kishimoto himself.
 
So I disagree with you about Tsunade and now with Sasuke, so lets wait on see who was right.
 
 
@Awes9
 
My definition of dictator is someone who does not believe in democratic election or consider the idea of the majority, my view on Sasuke as a dictator was in the sense of him saying that he doesn't care what other says or think about him he is going to be Hokage regardless of anyone's opinion.
 
I know how evil dictator can be after all I'm from Panama, but I didn't mean what I said in that way.
I mean that he might try to use any means to become a leader even when that means will not imply killing innocent people.
I regards of the first part of your post, well I wasn't saying that his past will be forgetting is more like I don't believe Kishi will make him sink any lower unless he really wants Sasuke's redemption to be trough death.

I see what you mean and I agree psychosuke is definitely gone but this Sasuke may be even more dangerous since he has a broader picture of things and is not looking for simple revenge nonetheless I get your point contrary to taka sasuke he isn't just pure evil (well at least what can be considered evil in Naruto). The impression I get is that this sasuke is a combination of hebi Sasuke and taka Sasuke but with a different goal of course which can make him even more dangerous, when he was simply looking for revenge he was targeting specific individuals now it seems everyone is at his mercy and what he considers right and just.

Edited by Awes9, 15 June 2013 - 12:47 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Me? I was throwing everything that makes it seem likely. I haven't truly predict the idea of the upcoming chapter. Concerning about Tsunade, Orochimaru could just heal her, that's it; heal her but come with a price; kill her; and so much more. I don't predict, seeing how everything is turning out to be in my favor without me addressing. Well, most of them. I don't say anything because if I do, it will not happen as I am known to change Kishi's direction. Yeah, it's stupid, but really, so far, I am oddly right about this one. Again, I was too confident with 615 not going to "that" direction, but whoops, backfired, regardless it's not a true NH moment, or rather full N and H moment. Do I want Sasuke to go bad? Not really, as I stated many times. Do I want Sasuke to stay his character being the third party? Yes. Do I think this is what Kishi is planning? I don't know, so we have to wait longer. I'm only pointing out that Kishi did the story plan that when people do a victory yell/thought, it's never that easy. I already gave examples in this thread, so no need to run-on with it.

 

To put it short, I don't know if I'm right or wrong, because I'm not the author. It's the chance of it is getting high and it's funny, because no one took Juugo's word for granted in 632, but here we are. I'm not sure if we are naiive or we don't want Sasuke to be on his own path, but if it's the first and if Kishi really goes to the direction that I said, then mission complete. Personally, I want Sasuke to be on his own when the final showdown happens. I mean looking at games, especially CC2, it will look stupid to have all the drama and hype, only to result to a friendly sparring match for the title. No, the stake must be high and the story of a hero and anti-hero must be grand as well. I know they're games, but you got to recollect everything you read to this point, the story of "brothers" must go with a huge bang. Again, I can't say Sasuke will go heel in here, but we just have to wait and see, as my motto goes.

[jworks]

I can't fathom Saskue has something sinister planned. Why is that the assumption? It seems more obvious that he has something planned like getting to Madara and Obito for something like revenge. A selfish goal like that but not aimed at the alliance. Maybe he thinks if he can defeat Obito or Madara himself that the alliance will take him seriously. Or, my personal theory, Sasuke plans to make himself a Jinchuriki of the Juubi.

 

Arriving under a false change of heart with an evil agenda would have been a completely believable thing for Sasuke to do but if that was the case it would have to have been written differently than the last several chapters. The set up isn't quite right for that.

[Lady_duckish]

I can't fathom Saskue has something sinister planned. Why is that the assumption? It seems more obvious that he has something planned like getting to Madara and Obito for something like revenge. A selfish goal like that but not aimed at the alliance. Maybe he thinks if he can defeat Obito or Madara himself that the alliance will take him seriously. Or, my personal theory, Sasuke plans to make himself a Jinchuriki of the Juubi.

 

Arriving under a false change of heart with an evil agenda would have been a completely believable thing for Sasuke to do but if that was the case it would have to have been written differently than the last several chapters. The set up isn't quite right for that.

For the first few days I was 100% he was going to do something bad, or something everyone would not be ok with.  

Now, I'm thinking it might be misdirection.

70% Sasuke's gonna do something bad

30% Misdirection and he still holds his place among the "angels"  

[Awes9]

But guys Naruto and Sasuke's fight has been foreshadowed since the beginning of part 2, the fact that Naruto is the only who could save him from his darkness has been emphasised times and times again by multiple characters and the plot in general, the parallels to Naruto and Sasuke (Hashirama and Madara, Obito and Kakashi,  Jiraiya and Oro) all ended up in either a battle to death or to a non resolution to their conflicts, Kishi isn't going to destroy the whole point of part 2 like that.

 

The way I see it the only misdirection here is Sasuke's supposed change of heart when it goes against everything written beforehand, yet there are still clear signs Sasuke is not as good as it seems to be (Juugo's comments and now Sakura’s and Sai's reactions) ; you have to look at the bigger picture, I think the last flashback about Hashirama and the conflict between Obito and Kakashi is more than enough of a hint that the last battle between Naruto and Sasuke will be a clash of ideologies. Just saying but to be honest I don't see how can anyone think Sasuke is good again when the whole plot of part 2 contradict that notion. 

Guess we will have to wait and see what will happen further down the road.

Edited by Awes9, 15 June 2013 - 05:15 AM.

[Dkey]

But guys Naruto and Sasuke's fight has been foreshadowed since the beginning of part 2, the fact that Naruto is the only who could save him from his darkness has been emphasised times and times again by multiple characters and the plot in general, the parallels to Naruto and Sasuke (Hashirama and Madara, Obito and Kakashi,  Jiraiya and Oro) all ended up in either a battle to death or to a non resolution to their conflicts, Kishi isn't going to destroy the whole point of part 2 like that.
 
The way I see it the only misdirection here is Sasuke's supposed change of heart when it goes against everything written beforehand, yet there are still clear signs Sasuke is not as good as it seems to be (Juugo's comments and now Sakuras and Sai's reactions) ; you have to look at the bigger picture, I think the last flashback about Hashirama and the conflict between Obito and Kakashi is more than enough of a hint that the last battle between Naruto and Sasuke will be a clash of ideologies. Just saying but to be honest I don't see how can anyone think Sasuke is good again when the whole plot of part 2 contradict that notion. 
Guess we will have to wait and see what will happen further down the road.

All those conflicts/rivalries have an ideological component that keeps them in conflict. So it's safe to assume that when Sasuke will clash with Naruto it will be very serious. Regardless of Sasuke's plan and what it entails Naruto will oppose him. If Sasuke is really planning on becoming Hokage then we can assume that he is pushing for a hostile take over. How exactly we don't know. If it will be evil or wrong we are just going to wait and see. But it seems he gets all dark when he uses susanoo

[TouKen4Life3g]

To me, I believe the idea of "Both will die together" will go to the final battle. We just have to see how. I mean, the buildup to that approach was huge, so I can't see Kishi dropping it altogether. I don't know how we get there, but we will.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 15 June 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[jworks]

For the first few days I was 100% he was going to do something bad, or something everyone would not be ok with.  

Now, I'm thinking it might be misdirection.

70% Sasuke's gonna do something bad

30% Misdirection and he still holds his place among the "angels"

 

Well I'm certainly not saying he is good or that what he has planned will be harmless. He certainly isn't redeemed.  I just think what he has planned is not for the purpose of destroying any of the "good guys." Maybe he plans to get himself alone with Naruto for their end-all battle after the current threat is neutralized. That makes sense to me and is a way to deal with the inevitable Naruto/Sasuke wrap-up.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

For the first few days I was 100% he was going to do something bad, or something everyone would not be ok with.  

Now, I'm thinking it might be misdirection.

70% Sasuke's gonna do something bad

30% Misdirection and he still holds his place among the "angels"

It could be misdirection but it coincides with Orochimaru's arrival which mirrors to the bad thing he did "reviving Orochimaru" i think if something bad will happne maybe Sasuke and Orochimaru planned to wipe out the alliance, remember that both Orochimaru and even Kabuto's plan was to both sides lose, i think Sasuke may be planning this too, making both the Akatsuki and the alliance army lose the battle, if he wipe out the alliance the five countries will be weakened opening the possibility to Sasuke and Orochimaru attaining more power.

 

No one would be able to stop Sasuke or Orochimaru since the 5 countries wont have any power.

 

If Sasuke is really a snake like Orochimaru then he might think about the chance of attacking the alliance right here and gaining more power, which grants him an open path to do what he wants.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 15 June 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[Quinny52]

@jworks - You give good points, and ultimately it's Kishi who decides how this plays out. However, there's a counter; Naruto and Sasuke won't be allowed to settle things here, not with the Allied Forces present (who will likely attempt to take Sasuke in), and not right after such an exhausting battle. If Sasuke really intends to claim the Hokage seat, and has taken into account that nigh everyone will object to his proclammation, he must have a plan, a play.

 

Here's some posts of mine I made on the issue:

From Pg.18

To be frank, Sasuke's eventual betrayal shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone here. It definately shouldn't to the rookies, considering his intention to be Hokage quite clearly. Naruto, more than anyone, should not be surprised when Sasuke finally turns his sword on him, since he's probably reading Sasuke's negative emotions right now, and surmissing that he (Naruto) will be in Sasuke's sights once the threat of the Juubi and Madara & Obito is taken care of. He even put himself in Sasuke's sights when he challenged the latter's declaration back in 631. So no, when the time arrives when Sasuke decides to play his hand, I'm not expecting any kind of dramatic shock/sadness from Naruto.

 

But just to throw a hypothesis out there, let's say for instance that Sasuke really doesn't have an ulterior motive, and really does want to go back to Konoha to compete for the Hokage seat in a democratic manner. Do you he'll just be allowed to walk off the battlefield so easily?

 

Konoha aside, Sasuke is a wanted man by ALL of the ninja nations, which comprise the Alliance. He killed several samurai (who had remained neutral in the ninja conflicts), attacked the Kage, and murdered Danzo (the acting Hokage). If Konoha are challenging his proclamation to become Hokage, you can be sure the other villages will. You really think they would just stand by and let Sasuke stroll back into Konoha and takeover? If Sasuke really didn't have a plan in mind, I'm certain the Alliance would attempt to apprehend him and take him into custody once the battle with the Juubi is over.

 

But here's the thing, the Alliance has been whittled down over the last 30 chapters, leaving all the ninja village's millatary forces weakened. With the prescence of Naruto, Sakura, the rookies, the remaining Alliance troops, Madara, Obito, Kakashi (both are currently engaged but you can be sure they will reappear), and Orochimaru apparently tending to the Kage, Sasuke now has every potential opponent who might challenge his plans right where he wants them. And then there's the issue of that scroll that Suigetsu provided him.

 

As it stands, while he's still biding his time, Sasuke is in a really good position to destroy everyone who might threaten his plans. 

From Pg. 23

I'm convinced that Naruto is aware, or at least has an inkling that Sasuke is going to turn on him and the Alliance once Madara and Obito are dealt with (the Ten Tails' fate is debatable). He can probably guess as to when this'll occur, so long as he keeps his chakra cloak active (he'll likely detect the spike in Sasuke's emotions when the latter is about to make his move), but it can't read minds, so he won't know EXACTLY what Sasuke has in mind, or how he intends to implement it. That may be where Naruto's caught by surprise.

 

Alternatively, Sasuke may give the Alliance an ultimatum before he takes action. Once this battle's over, he'll re-state his intentions and give them a choice; stand aside and let him take the Hokage seat unopposed, or refuse and be destroyed. However, this scenario would involve Sasuke aquiring something (or someone) to use as leverage against the Alliance, because as it stands he and Juugo are outnumbered. Examples include the 5 Kage (if that's what Oro & Co. are there for), the Feudal Lords, or even the Ten Tails itself. This might be where the scroll he got off Suigetsu could be key. Also, Sasuke has 3 of the 4 previous Hokage with him, whom only retain their free will on Sasuke's whim (or at least for as long as Oro continues to indulge him), and can command them to turn on the Alliance when the time is right. I don't think I need to mention the turmoil Naruto would go through facing off with his own father...

 

As I said before, Sasuke is in a very good position here, and is just biding his time. Though, it seems suspiscion is starting to emerge.

Edited by Quinny52, 15 June 2013 - 11:47 AM.