814 replies to this topic

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Well, I enjoy angst so I like it.

Sakura is partly motivated in her fight with Sasori by the fact that Sasori could have information about Orochimaru which in turn would lead team 7 to Sasuke. Sasori rewards her victory by giving her the time and place for meeting the spy Sasori thinks he has planted at Orochimaru's side. What makes you say that she wants this information just for Naruto, not because she wishes to save Sasuke? In the next arc, she is very eager to go after Sasuke and is clearly affected by seeing him. She even says that she wishes to save Sasuke for Naruto, since she thinks Naruto is willing to go too far (once again) to get Sasuke back. Seems to me that Sasuke is a big motivator for her. Naruto is of course as well.

Nope, the big motivator in that fight was her promise.
The first panel that appears when she was "dying" was her at the hospital with Naruto.
then a shared panel with both naruto/sasuke, and moreover her desire to protect both.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 09:18 PM.

[Chatte]

Well, I enjoy angst so I like it.

Sakura is partly motivated in her fight with Sasori by the fact that Sasori could have information about Orochimaru which in turn would lead team 7 to Sasuke. Sasori rewards her victory by giving her the time and place for meeting the spy Sasori thinks he has planted at Orochimaru's side. What makes you say that she wants this information just for Naruto, not because she wishes to save Sasuke? In the next arc, she is very eager to go after Sasuke and is clearly affected by seeing him. She even says that she wishes to save Sasuke for Naruto, since she thinks Naruto is willing to go too far (once again) to get Sasuke back. Seems to me that Sasuke is a big motivator for her. Naruto is of course as well.

I know, but it was all about I promised Naruto, I promised Naruto. Sasuke is their common goal so here it wasn't about Sasuke, it was about how she can help Naruto in bringing back Sasuke.
And you said it, she wishes to save Sasuke for Naruto... because she doesn't want to see him struggle anymore.
Sakura has put Naruto higher than Sasuke numerous times. So the biggest motivator is Naruto, it just happens that Sasuke is their common goal.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Nope, the big motivator in that fight was her promise.
The first panel that appears when she was "dying" was her at the hospital with Naruto.
then a shared panel with both naruto/sasuke, and moreover her desire to protect both.

Link the page? I can't remember what you are talking about.

[PhenixElite]

You should re-read the entire summit arc. Sakura meant to kill Sasuke from the start, and she meant to do this by herself. This is clearly stated by both Kakashi and Sai. Sakura's actions through the entire arc are consistent with this. She doesn't ask Naruto and Kakashi to join her and disposes Sai, Kiba and co before going to Sasuke. When she stands by Sasuke's side after he invites her closer to kill Karin, she is clearly gathering her resolve to stab Sasuke, not Karin. She only says that she will join him to get closer to Sasuke and then she planned to stab him with her poisoned weapon. This is clear from chapter 483. We are told very clearly what is happening. This isn't something we have to guess.

Forced Naruto make a promise? She pointed a knife at his throat and forced him to swear and then blackmailed him for years to keep it? Sakura was trying to kill Sasuke to help her village and Naruto, and because she wanted to save Sasuke from further darkness. She must have considered the risk to her own life worth it.


Why?

I could write about 100 sites about that but i dont have the time right now and english is also not my first language so its not that easy for me to describe.

First of all its a shonen= main character x tsundere, second: do you seriousl think its a good love story, that you see a story with the main character trying to win the heart of the love of his live, but the girl hes in love with loves a guy who is a complete a**hole to her and shows absolutly no feelings for her and even tries to kill her. The main character does everything for her and loves her in a completely selfless way. During the story you see the girl developing romantic feeligs for the main character (also as the only character, who showed a change of her feelings out of all the others), you then see the manga ending with the girl together with the guy who never showed any feelings for her and always acted like an a**hole, and the main character is still alone.
I mean a story like this could easily happen in real life, but the point is thz a manga is not real life, so i see no reason in making such a horrible and sad love story.

[Zatheko]

You should re-read the entire summit arc. Sakura meant to kill Sasuke from the start, and she meant to do this by herself. This is clearly stated by both Kakashi and Sai. Sakura's actions through the entire arc are consistent with this. She doesn't ask Naruto and Kakashi to join her and disposes Sai, Kiba and co before going to Sasuke. When she stands by Sasuke's side after he invites her closer to kill Karin, she is clearly gathering her resolve to stab Sasuke, not Karin. She only says that she will join him to get closer to Sasuke and then she planned to stab him with her poisoned weapon. This is clear from chapter 483. We are told very clearly what is happening. This isn't something we have to guess.

Ya know what I always wondered? what would sakura have done if naruto had accepted her confession? Would she tell him to go bakc to konoha so she could try to kill sasuke alone or what? I always wondered that.

BTW shouldn't we be taking this conversation to the debate thread? Were not really talking about chapter 614 anymore lol.

Edited by zatheko, 21 December 2012 - 09:26 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

I know, but it was all about I promised Naruto, I promised Naruto. Sasuke is their common goal so here it wasn't about Sasuke, it was about how she can help Naruto in bringing back Sasuke.
And you said it, she wishes to save Sasuke for Naruto... because she doesn't want to see him struggle anymore.
So the biggest motivator is Naruto, it just happens that Sasuke is their common goal.

She also wishes to save Sasuke for Naruto. Sasuke is someone she cares for, this has been stated very clearly. She wants him back for herself as well and she wishes to help Sasuke himself as well. It is similar to Naruto and his lifetime promise. Naruto did wish to make Sakura happy by bringing Sasuke back, but it wasn't the only reason. He is their friend and they both want him back.

Sakura has put Naruto higher than Sasuke numerous times.

I'd actually question this somewhat. This is a claim I've seen before. She would have chosen Sasuke over Naruto in the end of part I. She would have left with him, had Sasuke allowed it, and left Naruto far behind. Also, when she fails to kill Sasuke in the summit arc, doesn't she at that instance value Sasuke's life over Naruto's safety? I do think Sakura has sometimes chosen Naruto over Sasuke, I can't deny that.

Ya know what I always wondered? what would sakura have done if naruto had accepted her confession? Would she tell him to go bakc to konoha so she could try to kill sasuke alone or what? I always wondered that.

BTW shouldn't we be taking this conversation to the debate thread? Were not really talking about chapter 614 anymore lol.

You and me both. I've no idea what that confession part was about and what she tried to achieve with that. As for the latter, I wonder the same as well.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[Chatte]

Link the page? I can't remember what you are talking about.

http://c.mhcdn.net/s...g?v=11192680002

[HalfStarStudios]

Are we getting a chapter tomorrow or no?

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

http://c.mhcdn.net/s...g?v=11192680002

Thanks.

*thinks of Naruto after he fails to bring Sasuke back* "I promised Naruto... I said that this time... we'd be together." *thinks of Sasuke* "I swore that... this time I'd protect both of them."

Isn't that rather consistent with Sakura wanting Sasuke back as well, not just because Naruto wants him back? Also, Sakura originally begged Naruto to bring back Sasuke, so Naruto made the promise of the lifetime. She didn't beg that because she knew how much Naruto would miss Sasuke, she begged it for herself because she loved Sasuke.

First of all its a shonen= main character x tsundere, second: do you seriousl think its a good love story, that you see a story with the main character trying to win the heart of the love of his live, but the girl hes in love with loves a guy who is a complete a**hole to her and shows absolutly no feelings for her and even tries to kill her. The main character does everything for her and loves her in a completely selfless way. During the story you see the girl developing romantic feeligs for the main character (also as the only character, who showed a change of her feelings out of all the others), you then see the manga ending with the girl together with the guy who never showed any feelings for her and always acted like an a**hole, and the main character is still alone.
I mean a story like this could easily happen in real life, but the point is thz a manga is not real life, so i see no reason in making such a horrible and sad love story.

Short answer: Yep, I do think that the story can be a good love story even if NS doesn't happen. But what I meant was, why would it destroy Sakura's character if she loved Sasuke all the way to the end and SS happened?

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 09:37 PM.

[swagosaurus]

mutual murder attempts is the reason why I can't, and never will, accept SS as a canon ship. it's unhealthy, sets a bad message, and Sasuke's never shown anything beyond comradeship for Sakura, if even that.

Edited by swagosaurus, 21 December 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[StriderC]

Dying he understood how he father feels.



That was Naruto not her love for sasuke, that stood was Naruto she wanted to do that with him.

Now about betrails.
She wanted to leave with him on part 1.
On the second time ,she leave behind all her comrades, so i can only think on two possibilities dying or going on with him.

If she had fully grown as you pointed out she would tell naruto the truth and/or going on with her comrades to kill sasuke, you dont need to be a genius that she alone cant stand a chance against him.

You're talking about Sakura right?

Well, if she would of told Naruto the truth then guess where he would of been with that. He hyperventilated when he found out what her course of action was. She tried to shield him from having to deal with constantly chasing after Sasuke. That was pretty mature even though she wasn't completely being truthful. She basically tried to soften the blow that was being delivered.

Also, Naruto wasn't completely being truthful either. He didn't tell her about the things he had found out about Sasuke and his whole situation either.

And she tried to trick him. She thought she had a chance. That much was VERY obvious. Why would she go on if she didn't think so. She could of actually taken him out if she had resolved to but she couldn't go through with it. He was in a weakened state, and that would of been a good chance for her to take him down.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

You're talking about Sakura right?

Well, if she would of told Naruto the truth then guess where he would of been with that. He hyperventilated when he found out what her course of action was. She tried to shield him from having to deal with constantly chasing after Sasuke. That was pretty mature even though she wasn't completely being truthful. She basically tried to soften the blow that was being delivered.

Also, Naruto wasn't completely being truthful either. He didn't tell her about the things he had found out about Sasuke and his whole situation either.

And she tried to trick him. She thought she had a chance. That much was VERY obvious. Why would she go on if she didn't think so. She could of actually taken him out if she had resolved to but she couldn't go through with it. He was in a weakened state, and that would of been a good chance for her to take him down.

Amen.

mutual murder attempts is the reason why I can't, and never will, accept SS as a canon ship. it's unhealthy, sets a bad message, and Sasuke's never shown anything beyond comradeship for Sakura, if even that.

Cannot argue with the first two, they are both legimate problems for SS. Hypotetically: If Sasuke starts showing feelings for Sakura, would you reconsider the pairing?

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 09:40 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

You're talking about Sakura right?

Well, if she would of told Naruto the truth then guess where he would of been with that. He hyperventilated when he found out what her course of action was. She tried to shield him from having to deal with constantly chasing after Sasuke. That was pretty mature even though she wasn't completely being truthful. She basically tried to soften the blow that was being delivered.

Also, Naruto wasn't completely being truthful either. He didn't tell her about the things he had found out about Sasuke and his whole situation either.

And she tried to trick him. She thought she had a chance. That much was VERY obvious. Why would she go on if she didn't think so. She could of actually taken him out if she had resolved to but she couldn't go through with it. He was in a weakened state, and that would of been a good chance for her to take him down.

But was the right thing to do even kiba pointed out.
No she didnt thought like that if she was clearly that he wanted to kill sasuke she didnt had second thoughts on her first attempt.

About Naruto over sasuke.

She choose Naruto over sasuke on the entire part 2.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 09:42 PM.

[StriderC]

You should re-read the entire summit arc. Sakura meant to kill Sasuke from the start, and she meant to do this by herself. This is clearly stated by both Kakashi and Sai. Sakura's actions through the entire arc are consistent with this. She doesn't ask Naruto and Kakashi to join her and disposes Sai, Kiba and co before going to Sasuke. When she stands by Sasuke's side after he invites her closer to kill Karin, she is clearly gathering her resolve to stab Sasuke, not Karin. She only says that she will join him to get closer to Sasuke and then she planned to stab him with her poisoned weapon. This is clear from chapter 483. We are told very clearly what is happening. This isn't something we have to guess.

Forced Naruto make a promise? She pointed a knife at his throat and forced him to swear and then blackmailed him for years to keep it? Sakura was trying to kill Sasuke to help her village and Naruto, and because she wanted to save Sasuke from further darkness. She must have considered the risk to her own life worth it.


Why?

Exactly. The bolded for sure. She had the resolve to kill when she found out what the plan was and she wanted to shoulder it all alone. It wasn't about her wanting to see with her own eyes what kind of person he had become. It was about dealing with a criminal who was a threat to Konoha and the Ninja world. She looked at the bigger picture and Sasuke wasn't in that picture. She was prepared to shoulder Naruto's hate for his personal safety. Shows the lengths she's willing to go for a person she truly cares about.

But was the right thing to do even kiba pointed out.
No she didnt thought like that if she was clearly that he wanted to kill sasuke she didnt had second thoughts on her first attempt.

It wasn't the right thing to do BUT at the same time, she thought it was the right thing to do, and she wanted to deal with this problem herself. Is it right to continue letting a supposed criminal run free in the ninja world, and possibly commit crimes that would put Konoha in a bad light? Just because Naruto wants to save him doesn't mean trying to save him is the right thing to do when he's trying numerous times and failed.

Edited by StriderC, 21 December 2012 - 09:44 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Exactly. The bolded for sure. She had the resolve to kill when she found out what the plan was and she wanted to shoulder it all alone. It wasn't about her wanting to see with her own eyes what kind of person he had become. It was about dealing with a criminal who was a threat to Konoha and the Ninja world. She looked at the bigger picture and Sasuke wasn't in that picture. She was prepared to shoulder Naruto's hate for his personal safety. Shows the lengths she's willing to go for a person she truly cares about.

It was all that. But it was also about proving to herself that she wasn't just a burden to everyone. And it was also about helping Sasuke by pretty much euthanazing him.

[swagosaurus]

Cannot argue with the first two, they are both legimate problems for SS. Hypotetically: If Sasuke starts showing feelings for Sakura, would you reconsider the pairing?

Of course. It would make the pairing canon, unless Sakura were to get over Sasuke. But Sasuke doesn't care for Sakura personally; he shed that bond alongside everything else. He only has his bond with Naruto, and his hatred for Konoha.

Still, if he were to show feelings for her this late in the manga with little to no development/time together, it would be as bad as NH happening this late into the manga. It would be rushed, underdeveloped and awkwardly shown.

But what's canon is canon. I can't really argue with a Japanese man about who he sees fit to pair up.

I would still hate the pairing none-the-less. Sasuke doesn't deserve Sakura. He called her annoying and knocked her out on a bench after she professed her love for him, tried to kill her three times in Part 2, and is going to try to kill her again alongside the rest of Konoha unless his motives change. I can see the appeal of the angst and everything, but if it becomes canon, I'm going to be a grumpy-goose.

Edited by swagosaurus, 21 December 2012 - 09:49 PM.

[PhenixElite]

Of course. It would make the pairing canon, unless Sakura were to get over Sasuke. But Sasuke doesn't care for Sakura personally; he shed that bond alongside everything else. He only has his bond with Naruto, and his hatred for Konoha.

Still, if he were to show feelings for her this late in the manga with little to no development/time together, it would be as bad as NH happening this late into the manga. It would be rushed, underdeveloped and awkwardly shown.

Even if sasuke shows feelings for sakura sometimes, my opinion wont change. Read my last post and you know why.
Honestly i think nothing could ever change my opinion towards SS

[StriderC]

It was all that. But it was also about proving to herself that she wasn't just a burden to everyone. And it was also about helping Sasuke by pretty much euthanazing him.

IMO, it wasn't about her being a burden to everyone. It was more so about her not relying on Naruto anymore and letting him shoulder that promise on his own given what Sai told her about him being in pain. I agree about the second part of your message though. She wanted to free Sasuke and she felt killing him would do just that.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Honestly i think nothing could ever change my opinion towards SS

How about NaruHina? Is there anything that might make you change your opinion about that?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Exactly. The bolded for sure. She had the resolve to kill when she found out what the plan was and she wanted to shoulder it all alone. It wasn't about her wanting to see with her own eyes what kind of person he had become. It was about dealing with a criminal who was a threat to Konoha and the Ninja world. She looked at the bigger picture and Sasuke wasn't in that picture. She was prepared to shoulder Naruto's hate for his personal safety. Shows the lengths she's willing to go for a person she truly cares about.

Time to prove then because at the same time you point it out i too have panels that support my opinions.

She was having doubts to do it at first start but then sasuke tried to kill her, later she did with resolve.
First off she said that wanted ot go with him, but he ask her to kill karin then she gets the proof that sasuke is no longer what she once knew he was.
(So yes she had doubts that Sasuke was the guy that the cloud ninjas described)

first --Click here to view--

second --Click here to view--

third --Click here to view--

If she meant to kill sasuke from start she would have not hesited on her first attempt, she was still choosing if she kills karin or kill sasuke(when she grabs
that kunai[when she was going make the decision to kill sasuke, he advance and tried to kill her])

->If she knew that sasuke was a bad person why she made this statement, she didnt believe at all, so she went alone for that purpose, she was unstable emotionnaly and it was unclear what she really wanted to do.

third --Click here to view--

fourth --Click here to view--

->Conviction to kill sauske? so why those "if's" she didnt went there to finish him off once and for all?
If she went there to kill him she would not question herself.
"She doesnt matter...", "if.. if.." she was trying to decide if she kills Karin or not.

On the second time she does with conviction because she wanted to carry the burden but she was unable to kill him because of her feelings.
and again she is unstable emotionally.


Words are one thing actions are another stuff, she was unstable and uncertain of what she really wanted to do there.
Carefull before telling others to re-read the manga.

I end this post with this statement the probability of her leaving with sasuke was there if he allowed again, and this is the reason of why her feelings for sasuke is bad for her character, she had thoughts of leaving the village and abandoning Naruto, doing bad, illogical and horrible decisions.
THe ""She doesnt matter..."" statement proves this.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 10:14 PM.