143 replies to this topic

[candycane-chan]

really good chapter,funny withe poo thing and obito trying to kiss rin in the picture lol i'm becoming an obirin shipper
but it's also heart breaking to see such a person that could've had alot of positive potential turn to the dark side
the next chapter will probably be more if not entirely angst ,with rin's death

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

[Shadow Wolf]

Man... the more I know about Obito, the more I'm saddened about the outcome of him being Tobi. In my opinion, if he dies as a villain, then it would still be a sad death for me. Fighting for a single purpose... only to lose that purpose all of a sudden. And if that purpose means "everything" to you, then losing everything might be a crushing impact. This could be the perfect time for manipulation, and I get the feeling that this will be how it will turn out for Obito.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Man... the more I know about Obito, the more I'm saddened about the outcome of him being Tobi. In my opinion, if he dies as a villain, then it would still be a sad death for me. Fighting for a single purpose... only to lose that purpose all of a sudden. And if that purpose means "everything" to you, then losing everything might be a crushing impact. This could be the perfect time for manipulation, and I get the feeling that this will be how it will turn out for Obito.

after rin's death he lose his soul, it broken into pieces it can been seem perfectly he's just a mere shadow of what he was used to be, changing the world is the only thing that he can do, i see a guy that has no purpose or an objective in his life, obito has been "dead" long time ago, he will "die" when rin gets killed.

[T XD]

I liked how Obito was really holding into his thoughts to return to Rin and Kakashi and how he's gone now to try saving them and it seems that this is where he will see Rin dying which explains now that when he'll see Rin dying, he'll get more and more convinced of Madara's plan and will stand by his side. This is why he answered Kakashi when he asked him why he's doing this and Obito said because he let Rin die.

I also liked that we knew about how he had this swirling body and face of his.
For now, i think that somehow Madara has planned to let ninjas attack Rin and Kakashi cause they could all be Zetsus but still it's a plain idea that could be so i'll wait till the next chapter or a bit more.

It seems that Rin and Kakashi are out to bring back Obito's body or something, either that or they're just on a mission.

I think i'll shed a tear when i see Obito turning bad and see Rin dead *sigh*

Edited by T XD, 26 September 2012 - 03:58 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

after rin's death he lose his soul, it broken into pieces it can been seem perfectly he's just a mere shadow of what he was used to be, changing the world is the only thing that he can do, i see a guy that has no purpose or an objective in his life, obito has been "dead" long time ago, he will "die" when rin gets killed.

Well said.

That really fits to his dialogue. It doesn't matter what you call Tobi, he's nobody now.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 26 September 2012 - 03:58 PM.

[tricksie]

I beg to differ, a few years of training in a cave and having the most powerful,knowledgable ninja in the world teaching you. And on top of that having undestructable willpower to succeed will make you become one of the most powerful ninjas around.

I remember an interview long ago in which Kishi stated that he didn't believe in black and white villains, to him there always has to be a reason why someone turns into a villian. Tobi seemed like the most likely canditate to go against this set pattern, especially when he was casually snapping necks, trying to kill a minute old baby, ect. Yet in the end not even he is black and white.

What exactly is your problem with Danzo? Just because in his mind he's striving for peace doesn't in any way justify his actions. In fact to me he is one of the most disgusting, cowardly villains in the series and i do believe that that was the point Kishi was trying to make. That just because we consider the Leaf to be the good guys doesn't mean that they haven't had their share of rotten apples.

If there is a single constant in Kishi's storytelling it's that every action wether good or bad has consequences.

I think the bare back person is Obito, he answers Zetsu's question with silence. As for the dark surrounding him, maybe that's how it feels being inside the zetsu.

I think you've captured my problem with the storytelling right here in this post.

First, we have the fairytale idea that Obito will get his massive, better-than-a-kage powerup in a cave. (And I disagree with Madara teaching him. The panels only show Obito doing it on his own with the thought of getting back to Rina and Kakashi, with the Zetsus babysitting.) Willpower doesn't amount to much. Remember Sasuke fighting Itachi in part 1. Itachi snapped his arm like a slim jim. And Sasuke had waaay more indestructible will power at that point than Obito does now, after having lost his whole clan. Yet he still couldn't put a scratch on Itachi.

But second, we also have to accept the contrasting notion the the villains are portrayed "realistically," and are therefore not fully evil. We have to accept that villains can't be all bad; that there is some root source of their evil that makes sense, a root source that someone from the hero's camp can find a way to sympathize; and that the villain's ultimate goal is something that is for his own version of the greater good.

So readers are expected to accept the fairytale notion of a powerup awarded based on sheer determination as well as the "realistic" portrayals of villains in the manga. It just doesn't work for me.

My problem with Danzo, and with all these super-villains, is that there is no delineation between them. Danzo could have been an excellent example of the sticky territory that peace-touting countries get into, of having a segment of their armed forces trained to carry out the deeds that we blast other countries for. So he could have been an interesting villain.

But yeah, as you've rightly put it, most people see him as the evil within Konoha. Not as someone who used questionable methods to keep the peace.

And in reducing Madara's ultimate goal to implementing his own sick version of peace on the land, he becomes the same as Danzo. And Madara would be so much more interesting if he were self-serving and twisted. But Danzo, Madara, Pain and now maybe Obito are all turning be cut from the same cloth.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I think you've captured my problem with the storytelling right here in this post.

First, we have the fairytale idea that Obito will get his massive, better-than-a-kage powerup in a cave. (And I disagree with Madara teaching him. The panels only show Obito doing it on his own with the thought of getting back to Rina and Kakashi, with the Zetsus babysitting.) Willpower doesn't amount to much. Remember Sasuke fighting Itachi in part 1. Itachi snapped his arm like a slim jim. And Sasuke had waaay more indestructible will power at that point than Obito does now, after having lost his whole clan. Yet he still couldn't put a scratch on Itachi.

But second, we also have to accept the contrasting notion the the villains are portrayed "realistically," and are therefore not fully evil. We have to accept that villains can't be all bad; that there is some root source of their evil that makes sense, a root source that someone from the hero's camp can find a way to sympathize; and that the villain's ultimate goal is something that is for his own version of the greater good.

So readers are expected to accept the fairytale notion of a powerup awarded based on sheer determination as well as the "realistic" portrayals of villains in the manga. It just doesn't work for me.

My problem with Danzo, and with all these super-villains, is that there is no delineation between them. Danzo could have been an excellent example of the sticky territory that peace-touting countries get into, of having a segment of their armed forces trained to carry out the deeds that we blast other countries for. So he could have been an interesting villain.

But yeah, as you've rightly put it, most people see him as the evil within Konoha. Not as someone who used questionable methods to keep the peace.

And in reducing Madara's ultimate goal to implementing his own sick version of peace on the land, he becomes the same as Danzo. And Madara would be so much more interesting if he were self-serving and twisted. But Danzo, Madara, Pain and now maybe Obito are all turning be cut from the same cloth.

SHARINGAN, SHARINGAN ,SHARINGAN AND AGAIN

sharingan --Click here to view--

SHARINGAN

[Nostradamus]

The parallels between Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke and Obito, Rin and Kakashi are undeniable. It really amazes me that some people are trying to connect Hinata to Obito or Rin. Sometimes I wonder if they are following the same story.

[catsi563]

Willpower doesn't amount to much. Remember Sasuke fighting Itachi in part 1. Itachi snapped his arm like a slim jim. And Sasuke had waaay more indestructible will power at that point than Obito does now, after having lost his whole clan. Yet he still couldn't put a scratch on Itachi

Hate to say it trixie but I thin k youve forgotten one of the over arching themes. that hard work and detemrination and willpower especialy when such will power is directed at protecting a precious comerade or friend is always rewarded.

Sasuke did not have this, all he had was rage and revenge much like Gaara did. This is why he failed.

as to the villains they are self serving and twisted all of them including Obito.

They may have a realisitc motivation, protect konoha, protect my friends, bring peace to the ninja world. But what actions they take to get there are the key to behavior.

I want to protect konoha but in order to do that I will assassinate her citizens at will, and with no regards to circumstance and will initiate war with a rival country for no better pretext them its to protect us.

I want to protect my friends so ill go all out to take any help i can even from this ancestor of mine who tells me that the world is screwed up and needs to be reborn in fire.

I want to bring peace to the world so im going to wipe out half the worlds population so the other half can see how futile war is and make peace then ill wipe out that half when they get uppity later.

[James S Cassidy]

Everything is so kittened up if u ask me..all of this..for a girl.. ;x but anyway..nice chapter laughed at the poo thing and Obito is really cute with long hair..

Ummm...if you want to think about it.

Orochimaru: "All this for immortality?"

Kabuto: "All this because you were forced to kill your mother?"

Danzou: "All this because you wanted to be Hokage and couldn't?"

Nagato: "All this because your best friend died?"

Madara: "All this because you lost a fight for Hokage against Harashima?"

Sasuke: "All this confusion of whether or not you're a villain cause your brother was forced by Danzo to kill your clan because they were starting a riot against Konoha there by initiating a Fourth Ninja War?"

Actually, Sasuke's story is the mot complicated because in reality he has a reason for revenge, but not a big enough reason to be a villain. Justified to go after those who wronged you, but not justified going after the innocent.

All it takes is one traumatic moment in your life and a little altering of their wrecked minds for them to go off the edge. Some were jut villains for the hell of it.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 26 September 2012 - 06:13 PM.

[Nate River]

I think you've captured my problem with the storytelling right here in this post.

First, we have the fairytale idea that Obito will get his massive, better-than-a-kage powerup in a cave. (And I disagree with Madara teaching him. The panels only show Obito doing it on his own with the thought of getting back to Rina and Kakashi, with the Zetsus babysitting.) Willpower doesn't amount to much. Remember Sasuke fighting Itachi in part 1. Itachi snapped his arm like a slim jim. And Sasuke had waaay more indestructible will power at that point than Obito does now, after having lost his whole clan. Yet he still couldn't put a scratch on Itachi.

But second, we also have to accept the contrasting notion the the villains are portrayed "realistically," and are therefore not fully evil. We have to accept that villains can't be all bad; that there is some root source of their evil that makes sense, a root source that someone from the hero's camp can find a way to sympathize; and that the villain's ultimate goal is something that is for his own version of the greater good.

In terms of being a guy who aspires to do something evil for a "good" reason, Obito is a good candidate for that, especially if he is serving as a parallel to Naruto. For Madara it makes no sense, especially from what we have seen until now.

I don't mind him having these types of villains, just like I don't mind him not killing everyone who recieves what appear to be a mortal injury. I mind that virtually all of them are crammed into this same mold, just as I mind that everyone in the younger generation seems to survive those injuries no matter the condition set forth.

As far as being realistic...well, not everyone who does bad or stupid things has an obvious identifiable reason why they do what they do.

I'd agree on determination. How does that rotting carcass Madara calls a body teach a guy who can barely stand anything?

My problem with Danzo, and with all these super-villains, is that there is no delineation between them. Danzo could have been an excellent example of the sticky territory that peace-touting countries get into, of having a segment of their armed forces trained to carry out the deeds that we blast other countries for. So he could have been an interesting villain.

But yeah, as you've rightly put it, most people see him as the evil within Konoha. Not as someone who used questionable methods to keep the peace.

My big hang up with Danzou is that Kishimoto's continued dumping on him after he becomes an ends justify the means guy. The idea of peace is muddled with all the stufft that is reveled after his death. Everyone sees him as the evil, as you say, so why even bother with the peace stuff? He has to have an underlying "good" reason for what he does? Why? Same question for Madara? Until now, he was just an a**hole.

I take a much more cyincal view of him than Rikudo does. To me it's a lazy story telling device. As the unquestioned evil of the village he is a convenient spoil for all the evil Konoha does without complicating it as something worth protecting for Naruto. You need Konoha to do or be something bad so characters have an identifiable reason for despise the village? Danzou did it. Uchiha, Danzou's finger prints are all over it. Kabuto? Danzou, again. Hell, Danzou was even involved with Nagato. Gimme a break...

The evil of Konoha is compartmentlized in once nice little package for everyone to hate to spare the problems it creates if the evil is coming from a diverse set of sources.

Orochimaru is the exception. His base reason is being passed over as Hokage.

[Gravenimage]

The parallels between Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke and Obito, Rin and Kakashi are undeniable. It really amazes me that some people are trying to connect Hinata to Obito or Rin. Sometimes I wonder if they are following the same story.

Hinata....? Oh well they have to somehow include her in all of the Obito/Rin thing because they know very well of yet being another NS parallel but they want to deny it.

[HalfStarStudios]

Amazing chapter. Obito looks just like Madara with the long hair. It's confirmed he can use Mokuton but doubt it's on the level of Madara's and Hashirama's. His left side can heal its self seen when he grew his arm back and his wounds from the rock crushing him were healed.

I have to give Kishi some major props. He pulled himself out of this Obito=Tobi mess and is making perfect sense with it. It makes me forget all about that retarded flashback on chapter 599.

As for the NaruSaku=ObiRin.....I still don't care about that. Sorry. lol I've stopped caring about pairings all together. If anything, I just want NaruSaku to happen so the NaruHina fans would crushed.

[Paptala]

Pretty good chapter - I didn't care for the bathroom humor with the Zetsus, but I did like the humor with Obito trying to kiss his picture of Rin, and Kakashi popping up.

I agree that this whole thing is being orchestrated by Madara - the attack on Kakashi and Rin, that is. Madara needs Obito for something (I don't think he would have gone through the trouble of helping him otherwise), and his desire to get back to Rin and Kakashi is getting in the way of that. So why not kill two birds with one stone by getting those obstacles out of the way, and disillusioning him to make him more malleable at the same time?

As for the power-up, I think its going to come from fusing with the swirly Zetsu, and probably from fusing on some level with the old Madara. Recall that Tobi told Kakashi at the summit (when he was giving his speech to Naruto about Naruto and Sasuke being destined to fight one another) that he wanted to become complete? And he was talking about Naruto reminding him of Hashirama as well.

I honestly think that some part of the old Madara is fused with the Tobi of today, or that part wouldn't make much sense. It would also explain the massive power up as well.

Flashbacks might end next chapter. They've been interesting, but I'm read to get back to the fight.

Edited by Paptala, 26 September 2012 - 07:18 PM.

[kirabook]

Random thought.

So, Madara wants to use Obito obviously, that's why he's trapped him there with him. To unlock the Mangekyo Sharingan, you have to kill your best friend... so... I'm assuming Obito goes to help Rin and he does, but while he's inside that body, he ends up killing her?

Is that why he said he didn't blame Kakashi for her death? And why he's just made that he "let her die"? Kakashi wasn't there to protect Rin from himself?

[T XD]

Random thought.

So, Madara wants to use Obito obviously, that's why he's trapped him there with him. To unlock the Mangekyo Sharingan, you have to kill your best friend... so... I'm assuming Obito goes to help Rin and he does, but while he's inside that body, he ends up killing her?

Is that why he said he didn't blame Kakashi for her death? And why he's just made that he "let her die"? Kakashi wasn't there to protect Rin from himself?

I don't think that he would kill her by mistake. I think it's unlocked by seeing her dying/dead or by power up.

He said he didn't blame Kakashi cause he's implying to him that he's weak and passing his time in front of grave stones and thinking of the past like he said.

Edited by T XD, 26 September 2012 - 07:42 PM.

[merryGOflava]

ya know what!!? i dont trust those zetsu!!!

1) they ask obito to talk about rin and kakashi!!
2) they talk about madara's plan and how he can "revive" someone and live happy in a peaceful world
3) rin and kakashi are SUDDENLY in trouble!!?!
4) zetsu tells obito that he can use his body without question.


>:U THOSE FAKERS!! they are totally setting this up so obito will want to help madara.

im calling it!!


i dont trust any of madara's hench-dudes!

BUUUTT

if im wrong then those zetsu's are surprisingly cool.

Edited by merryGOflava, 26 September 2012 - 08:07 PM.

[Transformers03]

I reread the chapter, and I actually liked more the second time. Though that maybe because I probably read a better translation of it this time, but still certain things that I didn't like about it beforehand came off better this time. When I first read it, I thought Obito bonding with the Zetsus clones was kind of off and seemed rush. I didn't feel like he gave enough panel time to establish that relationship, so when clones start helping him by the end it came kind of off (but then again, this still could be a trap, but I didn't really get that vibe though). After rereading it though, I still find it rushed but much better establish than I remember. While seeing the clone with the spiral helping Obito recover still seems kind of weird, as the story doesn't really tell us why that clone started to care. But it was to lead up to the Zetsus clones cheering for Obito as he was able to stand on his own, which came off much nicer the second time around. I like to think (which I think was Kishi's intentions) that the Zetsus' bonded with Obito because he was a very determine person, just like how Naruto was able to make friends through his determination.

An other thing that turn out better the second time was how the chapter showed Obito's crush on Rin this time. While there were cute moments (Obito trying to kiss a picture of Rin still proves to be the best part of the chapter), it didn't seem necessary. It kind of came off as Sakura's and Hinata's crushes, like the story feels the need to constantly remind the reader about it. However, reading it again, I realize that story kind of needs to focus on Obito's crush, because that is what will lead him into becoming Tobi. So that is forgiven, besides unlike most of the other crushes (whom just come off as annoying and pointless) Obito's crush is played off as being funny (like how Naruto's crush was like in Part 1 at times). You can also forgive the story for playing that crush just for laughs, because you know it will lead to tragedy.

I kind of find it funny that people whom once complained that they didn't like the idea that Obito became evil because of Rn's death, are now okay with it. But I think it has more to do with what zacrathedemon5 said*, that while people still don't necessary like the idea of it, they like how it is turning out, as if it is going better than they expected it go. I personally was alway okay with the idea of Obito doing this for Rin, mainly because I found it refreshing that a villains motivation is involved with romantic love. And I like when the series goes to romance territories, because Kishi doesn't do a bad job doing it (unless it ends with Naruhina and Sasusaku, then he was horrible in establishing that).

Now people are complaining that Madara is now longer a truly evil villain, because he now wants to force the world to go under a genjustu so that they could live in peace. I'm sure when more is cleared up about this, people will start being okay with this, like they are with this. Doesn't this happen a lot among the Naruto fandom?

*Here's the quote.v

I'll admit, I'm still iffy about the Rin thing being his entire motivation (and hoping that it really turns out that it isn't), but if Kishi keeps doing this as he has, then it might turn out alright. This chapter really got me to start feeling for Obito, mostly due to that little growth montage - which was done excellently, by the way - and to notice more how getting back to Kakashi and Rin is the only thing keeping him going. If Kishi handles this right, then Rin dying just might be buy-able enough for driving Obito over the edge.

[T XD]

Adding, people will eventually like the idea that Obito became evil because of Rin's death cause they're learning each time more about what happened with Obito, and will see it fitted with the story.

Edited by T XD, 26 September 2012 - 08:37 PM.