However, what I DO think is poorly done and quite cliche is the women's over-involvement in love and the guy's under-involvement. It just shows sexist ideas, that all women care about is romance and men care about their goals.
It may indeed be cliché. But pronouncing it "poorly done" on those grounds is entirely subjective on the part of the reader. A great deal of the Naruto story is cliché, especially for its genre, so why is it such a big deal that he tends to be cliché with regard to his treatment of girls and romance?
Readers are certainly free to not like it, and free to express ideas on how it might have been written in a manner more appealing to them or more socially enlightened by their standards, but Kishimoto's choice to portray his characters this way does not make him a bad writer or his work poorly done.
Perhaps he was told to do it because it's an ingredient in a successful shonen? Perhaps he did it because it was what he experienced when he was a teenager and first interacted with girls? Or perhaps he has done it because he is a socially backward, knuckle-dragging Neaderthal who really thinks that all girls and women are this way? Who knows? Only he does. (Although I'm sure his wife does, too.)
The point is, it is very difficult to use highly subjective, personal views and expectations as the scale by which to rate an author's skill. Again, there is no way an author can meet everyone's views, wishes, and expectations, so he/she must choose what they feel is correct for what they are writing and go with it. It's his decision how to characterize love and romance in his story, and readers will either like it or not.
The subjectivity issue is the same when it comes to the charges of sexism, but since the mods closed the previous thread on that subject I don't want to got any further down this path.
As for plot holes and inconsistencies, I could go on for ages.
There is no question he has had a lot of technical issues and errors in his story. No one could read the story carefully and not realize Kishimoto has made some fairly grievous mistakes.
But I've never said he was a bad writer in regards to this, I said he's a sexist.
I understand. My replies attempt to address other comments that have been made on this topic as well, not just yours.
Rational expectations are people who wants Kishi to follow up with the rule he created or explain more on something that doesn't make sense.
Personally for me, I think the below don't make sense. But I'm sure people have others.
-The importance of hard work. Naruto became a walking contradiction the moment he gets stronger with handed out power-ups. While, other people are becoming weaker and weaker in comparison to him precisely because they have only 'hard work'. Kishi shouldn't have try to relay the message in the beginning or at least change the message to "Hard work with talent, bloodline,and destiny makes you strong". This is the biggest complaint that the Japanese readers have against Kishi and it's a major discussion going on in 2ch.
-Why didn't anybody tell Naruto about his parents? That wasn't explained.
-Sakura is a genjutsu type? That had no follow up along with her 'reaching to Naruto and Sasuke'.
These are some other examples although it isn't much of a big deal.
-Oodama Rasengan. Rasengan is a strong attack that increases the intensity of the attack by containing the chakra in a small ball. Why is Oodama Rasengan stronger?
-Madara's senjutsu cells regenerate his body, but why does it regenerate his clothes as well?
I totally agree with you! These are exactly the kinds of technical flaws I was talking about in my previous post when I mentioned "theme confusion, deus ex machina, plot holes, poor or confusing prose/dialogue, continuity errors."
I agree that it is perfectly rational for readers to expect that these kinds of problems or unexplained phenomena within the story either not occur at all or be resolved for clarity. I agree 100%. So I don't think we're too far apart in viewpoint.
However....
The examples you have listed above are objective criticisms. They are technical issues with the history and physical laws of the universe Kishimoto has created. Mixing up, ignoring, redefining, or omitting facts or details like these is a reflection of sloppy or poor writing. It's proof that Kishimoto is not doing his homework on his own story, or bothering to provide the sort of continuity that readers expect and deserve. No argument from me on that.
But remember the title of this thread: Kishimoto's Portrayal of Love. It would be difficult to raise a discussion point that is more subjective than the way characters are written with regard to relationships and love -- or in the way individual readers will react to it.
Something along the lines of, "I don't like Kishimoto's portrayal of love; it's bad writing" is not equal to "Kishimoto has failed to properly explain how Senjutsu cells function." One is subjective opinion, the other is objective criticism.
Edited by KnS, 21 July 2014 - 01:17 AM.