That means that we need to feel the same way, for Kabuto, Orochimaru, Sasuke, Nagato, Sasori, because all of them lost someone dear to them and become psychopaths, or this is only because Obito parallel Naruto? So what about all the one who lost someone close to them and it make them stronger and give them more desire to do great things and protect the other loves ones they have.
Oh can we still feel sorry for Obito with all the crap he has done so far.
Sasuke was pity-ed up to a point in my opinion. When he finally got his revenge against the real people who id all that stuff like Itachi and Danzou, that's when he could have walked away forever and we would have been satisfied. Now that he wants to continue this "evil" streak, he lost sympathy. It's all because he was justifiable up to a point.
As for why people still sympathize with Obito? Well I have my reasons, but one difference I find is that unlike Sasuke and Orochimaru, Obito didn't have a chance to see it from another point of view. There was no one there to show him a better path. Kakashi would have done it if he knew Obito was still alive.
But look at what Obito had left. Seeing his best friend kill his true love is very harsh on the mind. Honestly, can you survive seeing that happen? We then got the fact that Madara was with Obito every step of the way and right when Obito cracked. Right when he had given up hope says to him "Hey, I have something to take away your pain. I have the means to bring back everything you love and want and all you have to do is exactly what I tell you."
Could you say no to that? I doubt anyone could. When you are at the end of your rope at this breaking point and someone offers you a way out, you'd take it no matter if it was right or wrong. This is why I am curious is if Kakashi tries to talk to Obito now and explains why he had to kill Rin, how much would this change? Would Obito waver?
I want to see if given the chance and told the truth, how would Obito react? If he denies it, then I will stop being sympathetic. If he at least acknowledges or wavers in his idea, then I will continue to be sympathetic because it shows that all Obito wants is to be happy.
No one will die? Rin's already dead. Any "Rin" in his world will be an illusion. She still lost her life and mortality as a concept will not cease to exist because people are living in a dream. They themselves will eventually die even if they never percive those around them dying. At that's simply assuming what Obito says actually pans out they way he thinks. Communism's history is one of big promises of how equal we will all be only for reality to consistently inflict ungodly body counts on nations that employ it and all for a promise that never pans out.
I think I can understand this point quite well. Sometimes living a lie is better than living a truth. People tell me that living a truth is the much better outcome, but I always asked them what if it made you miserable for the rest of your life? Yes, you know the truth. Yes, you live in reality, but is it worth living through most of life being miserable? I guess this is really subjective because people can be miserable for many reasons.
It's so easy to say you rather live the truth, but I don't think anyone can really understand until you know what it feels like to suffer and to understand why some would rather live in a lie
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At least with Sasuke, he did not go after anyone who spoke his name wrong. He targeted only the person who he, justifiably, believed had wronged him. Sasuke's own goals only expanded after Obito got a hold of him and pushed him in that direction. This does not absolve Sasuke of his own choices, but if we are going to sit here and compare to the two, Obito's hands are all over that too. The caveat at this point, is I do not know exactly what Sasuke will do now and he could end up in the same boat as Obito, but until he does, I think Obito is a far worse human being than Sasuke. It's not even close for me.
At this point, Obito is a pathetic soul who seeks to inflict his own version of reality on everyone else because he cannot accept the results of his own. Sasuke and Gaara were actively wronged by the people around them, Obito doesn't appear to have been wronged in the same way, he simply cannot accept that someone he cared about, died.
I have to agree. The logic is very sound, but it does make me wonder which villains have good enough reasons to be villains and what is a good reason at all. I know "There is no reason why someone should be the villains and hurt and kill others." What I mean is, what is a good acceptable understanding on why someone would become a villain?
Obito became a villain because he lost the love of his life and was brainwashed by Madara.
Kabuto became a villain too because he lost the one person who cared about him and Orochimaru gave him an option.
Orochimaru became a villain because he wanted power and immortality.
Unknown why Madara became a villain, but so far it seems to be similar to Orochimaru: power and immortality.
Gaara became a villain because the clan treated him like a weapon and his own family tried to kill him. His father even abandoned him.
Sasuke became a villain because...well he lost his clan to his brother, was told to go for power, and now wants to kill others to satisfy his own to redeem his own name.
So which one of these is a good enough reason?
If we look at Body counts, Orochimaru seems to be the worst of them all. He did horrible experiments on people, put entire groups of ninja to fight against each other only to give the victor the chance to be his vessel. We also have him killing 200 people just to combine people with Harashima's DNA and put two people in extreme experiments and years of being trapped in a prison just so he can mess with their Jutsu.
Compared to that, Obito is not so bad. I also think it is kind of unfair to compare Sasuke with any villain in this series since well....he really hasn't done anything. He has "attempted" some things, but he is always stopped either by Itachi's reasoning or Naruto and Sakura's meddling or he fails entirely.
In that retrospect, Sasuke isn't a villain. You have to do bad things before you can be a bad guy and Sasuke just...doesn't have the cojones to even attempt anything. The really sad part is, Sasuke just isn't even a threat. Naruto has been going up against Obito and soon Madara and going toe to toe with them. How can Sasuke compete with the two greatest Uchiha in existence? I am not sure what kind of power boost Sasuke is going to get to math wits with Naruto, but it better be a good boost cause right now Naruto would wipe the floor with him.
Call it what you want. It was plugging a plot hole. Two of them, in fact. His eye cannot be shut off, but it can evolve. Whatever. Whether it evolved because of Obito or because of his own tragedy (that it did it some else's head was an-ass-pull too), it's an ass-pull either way. So, he didn't know he had thing for over a decade or maybe he simply chose not to "develop" it for such a long period because he forgot he killed his teammate until the time skip? Was he so traumatized he simply didn't remember he killed Rin? If he forgot when did remember again? During the time-skip? What suddenly jogged his memory that he remember he had this technique so many years later? Can you tell me? It's obvious it wasn't during this fight.
Fill in the blanks for me and I might not call it a ret-con anymore.
I want to take a crack at this and go with a much more simple option. He didn't have the chakra to do it. Even to an Uchiha the MS is taxing on the chakra reserves. So he probably didn't have enough chakra. He also did some hard training during the 2 year time skip to learn to use it.
We could even say that he didn't forget so much that he didn't think it was important. Kakashi didn't really train that hard because almost every opponent he faced was much weaker than him. Probably figured he didn't need to gain it again seeing how lazy Kakashi can be sometimes. It wasn't until he met Itachi that he did some crunching down on training. I figure after meeting the Akatsuki and how powerful they are, I guess he figures it would have been a good idea to unlock it.
No where did Kakashi say he "forgot" how things went. This is something I think the fanbase kind of made up cause I can't remember one scene where Kakashi says "I don't remember how my friend's died" nor said "I forgot I unlocked it."
I just always figured he got lazy and just didn't train himself to use it. Imagine if he did all those years? He probably would be more powerful than he is now and many opponents would just be killed instantly.
Edited by James S Cassidy, 17 October 2012 - 05:45 PM.