151 replies to this topic

[sushi.]

So instead of calling the person stupid, call their argument stupid? What's the difference? They are giving the argument so calling it stupid is pretty much calling them stupid for thinking of such a stupid argument, no?

I didn't say it was alright to call something stupid. Don't take it so directly.

It is not okay because stupid is a bashing word itself. The person would never understand why their argument is being called stupid, and therefore he/she can not improve. Constructive critism is to me when you mention reasons for disagreeing with the person. You may also give advice or your own opinion, like "I think it would be better like this".

Edited by sushi., 31 December 2012 - 04:33 PM.

[T XD]

So instead of calling the person stupid, call their argument stupid? What's the difference? They are giving the argument so calling it stupid is pretty much calling them stupid for thinking of such a stupid argument, no?

It's like you give your opinion on the argument and say what you want to say, but not using words like stupid and such.
Well here between NS fans, no one say something like this to the other but when there's other fans, you sometime see these things.

Oh you have no idea. If you're curious I'll send you a message of what I did.

Well, my curiosity is neutral but if you're curious on what I would say, feel free to send me or not XD

Edited by T XD, 31 December 2012 - 04:40 PM.

[HalfStarStudios]

I didn't say it was alright to call something stupid. Don't take it so directly.

It is not okay because stupid is a bashing word itself. The person would never understand why their argument is being called stupid, and therefore he/she can not improve. Constructive critism is to me when you mention reasons for disagreeing with the person. You may also give advice or your own opinion, like "I think it would be better like this".

Well when you constantly tell that person why their argument is wrong and they keep on with the same crap, contradicting themselves and changing the subject for their own benefit then it's kinda hard not to call that person out on their stupidity.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

So instead of calling the person stupid, call their argument stupid? What's the difference? They are giving the argument so calling it stupid is pretty much calling them stupid for thinking of such a stupid argument, no?

By attack the argument, it means to shut them down using proper debate behavior; as in find flaws in their argument, use your own evidence, and prove why yours is correct properly, not go "Well, your argument sucks and stupid!"

Jeez, what a weird implication to go through.

@T XD:

Oh no, don't think for a second that NS fans are immune to such behavior, I've seen it in the past. I've come close to writing such arguments, myself.
It's present everywhere.

[HalfStarStudios]

By attack the argument, it means to shut them down using proper debate behavior; as in find flaws in their argument, use your own evidence, and prove why yours is correct properly, not go "Well, your argument sucks and stupid!"

Jeez, what a weird implication to go through.

Umm, this.

Well when you constantly tell that person why their argument is wrong and they keep on with the same crap, contradicting themselves and changing the subject for their own benefit then it's kinda hard not to call that person out on their stupidity.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Then that's when you ignore them and agree to disagree.

Really, it's not that hard.

Unless the fate of the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth rests in you winning a debate with who is obviously a very stubborn arguer, just be the better debater and agree to disagree.

[T XD]

@T XD:

Oh no, don't think for a second that NS fans are immune to such behavior, I've seen it in the past. I've come close to writing such arguments, myself.
It's present everywhere.

That's bad cause since I joined the forum till now, I've never seen it.

[HalfStarStudios]

Then that's when you ignore them and agree to disagree.

Really, it's not that hard.

Unless the fate of the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth rests in you winning a debate with who is obviously a very stubborn arguer, just be the better debater and agree to disagree.

I have no problem with agreeing to disagree. I have a problem with letting that person go around saying stupid crap thinking that there's nothing wrong with it. As I said before, I'm not a perfect little angel like you guys want me to be nor do I want to be.

Edited by HalfStarStudios, 31 December 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

I have no problem with agreeing to disagree. I have a problem with letting that person go around saying stupid crap thinking that there's nothing wrong with it.

I don't. Let them be stupid about it. It only hurts themselves. Either that, or they be trollin'. I just laugh at them irl and then feel sorry for anyone who meets this person. Then laugh again.

[HalfStarStudios]

I don't. Let them be stupid about it. It only hurts themselves. Either that, or they be trollin'. I just laugh at them irl and then feel sorry for anyone who meets this person. Then laugh again.

B-but, it's so boring that way. D: Though I guess you are right.

[sushi.]

If that person doesn't answer you arguments rationally, you should just ignore them. They won't listen anyway. You should do the same when it is obvious that the debate doesn't go anywhere, again agree to disagree.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

B-but, it's so boring that way. D: Though I guess you are right.

The lesson I'm trying to say is that the Internet is FULL of stupid people, or regular people acting stupid because of the GIFT equation:




So, trying to call out every stupid people will only lead to anger, and as our esteemed master Yoda once said, "Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."
Save yourself the trouble and just ignore the stupidness, or limit it to 1 person per week, less suffering that way.

[James S Cassidy]

It is not okay because stupid is a bashing word itself. The person would never understand why their argument is being called stupid, and therefore he/she can not improve. Constructive critism is to me when you mention reasons for disagreeing with the person. You may also give advice or your own opinion, like "I think it would be better like this".

I am tempted to say something because there are some words that are used properly yet people still hate them. For example, this forum has a big problem with the word "hypocrite." (some rather use the word "contradict," but they are not the same definition.)

I think this is where the lines get blurred. If there was a more polite word, people would use it, but I can't think of a more polite word for hypocrite that still retains the same definition.

Even with constructive criticism, some still take it as bashing even when they are not. People are different.

I want to quote Carlos Mencia here:
"What happened? Remember the old line: 'Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.' Now it's: 'Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will devastate my inner child forever.'"

So I say we all have to be responsible. People have to be careful with what words they say and others need to learn to let things slide off their shoulders and not let some words bother them so much.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 31 December 2012 - 05:24 PM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Actually, this is the best lesson I should give:

http://themetapictur...you-look-silly/

Read it, follow it. Remember it forever.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 31 December 2012 - 05:16 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

Actually, this is the best lesson I should give:

http://themetapictur...you-look-silly/

Read it, follow it. Remember it forever.

"Let's go eat Grandma."

vs

"Let's go eat, Grandma."

[shadow_Uzumaki]

"Let's go eat Grandma."

vs

"Let's go eat, Grandma."

I knew they were forgetting a comma lesson.

But yeah, a person can have the greatest evidence in the world, but obviously bad grammar'll just make people laugh at their post, or go, "what did you say?"

[sushi.]

I am tempted to say something because there are some words that are used properly yet people still hate them. For example, this forum has a big problem with the word "hypocrite." (some rather use the word "contradict," but they are not the same definition.)

I think this is where the lines get blurred. If there was a more polite word, people would use it, but I can't think of a more polite word for hypocrite that still retains the same definition.

Even with constructive criticism, some still take it as bashing even when they are not. People are different.

I want to quote Carlos Mencia here:
"What happened? Remember the old line: 'Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.' Now it's: 'Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will devastate my inner child forever.'"

So I say we all have to responsible. People have to be careful with what words they say and others need to learn to let things slide off their shoulders and not let some words bother them so much.

I don't like being called stupid because it leads me to nothing. For instance, if someone tells me I'm ignorant, I try to analyze things more. If calling me stupid is necessary, mention reasons behind the word "stupid" in an argument would be okay.

I completely agree with the last thing you said, and I don't think there should be any forbidden words here

Edited by sushi., 31 December 2012 - 05:21 PM.

[narulsaku]

so this is all about the madness. why just we get that serious about this matters. manga pairing anime . they are for fun entertainment. why do we get that serious? like smiter said any pairing fans are welcome .. so you like your favorite he likes his, she like her they like their, it like ... i ll stop with they. we should respect their thoughts. i ve seen people cutting others opinion and after that own too, about recent chapter, ive seen members bashing. and also a topic is kisi out of his mind. whys that. we think this cause kisi showed a nh devlopments so think about how nh fans would have felt when they saw ns devlopment. play fair guys. its just for fun. its not a war not here.

[Smiter]

I'm sure that everyone here is aware of recent controversy involving the late
Yes it is, i have problems against NH and SS fans here, did you not read the H&E debate thread?
A girl comes and say that she ships SS because she likes it and recognize that SS is abusive and etc, so why she wants to debate about SS on a Naruto fansite.
I'm not again debates about Harry potter pairings, or whatever.

But seriously is it your desire for this place become another Naruto general forum?
Because i see like it, i'm not going to sound like a fantard or super biased but what's the purpose of debating NH/SS/NS here? on a Narusaku fanclub, i'm not going on a NH fanclub to say "NS is the best gg", i had heachaches friday, of debating here i never had headchaches, i had to go lurk another forums and re-read the chapter and seek other NS fans to talk about the chapter because for the first time it didnt seemed like a fanclub to me, because in the middle of all the NS post there were a lot of trolls posting "NH is canon"(x30).

It does not make any sense.
Some people even created new accs just to say "NH is canon" and leave.

This is a fanclub, if NH and SS are welcome to start stupid debates so change the name to Naruto Forums, because seriously just look at the debate thread that was ridiculous, there was a SS fan passing shame contradicting himself(30X),insulting, doing fallacies and generalizations, he even used ad hominem on me, and still didnt give up and change subject(dozen of times) etc...
No one here is going to force another person to accept your pairing.

There are even boards that is made just to discuss pairing unrelated to Narusaku and even a gaming board.
There are so many places to debate with SS/NH i just feel that this is not the place for it, i dont want to change this place because it's not mine but i didnt like what happened not about the manga but about what happened here.
The worse is there's no option to hide threads or user's posts and you guys wont implement it.

So, we should get the pitchforks and torches out?

You are suggesting that all fans of other pairings should be automatically banned, and that we should close off Heaven & Earth to non-NaruSaku fans.

That would be completely the wrong thing to do. Like I said in my opening post, that kind of action would make H&E look like a hostile, unwelcoming place. We do not want H&E to be an "exclusive club", as Greed put it. Some of us also like multiple pairings, and I'm sure there are quite a few SakuNaruHina and SasuSakuNaru fans around here. If we started banning people for liking the "wrong" pairings, how would we come across to fans of multiple pairings and new people?

We admins and mods will treat everyone the same, and we will NEVER ban someone just because they like a different pairing.

If you are getting worked up just by seeing posts from fans of other pairings, then take a break for a few days. If those fans do actually break the Rules of Conduct, then report them and let us deal with it. We chose not to act on your report about the debate thread because you were just asking us to ban people for being non-NaruSaku. You have been nothing but rude to those fans, and you have been getting worked up. Just ignore the posts if you don't like them.


Greed, thanks for your nice comments, it's much appreciated.

I've been on this forum for 9 years, and this is the worst I have seen it. I really don't think anyone should be rude to anyone one here. Don't get me wrong, it is fairly frustrating when other fandoms seek this forum out to brag and to troll, I think it's much easier and much more respected to report and get them kicked off. I think a lot of us are taking the recent turn of events very personally, and it's a lot easier to lash out in this state.

I do know I want my fandom to be respected, because I would never consider going on a NH or SS forum and blatantly bragging. It's just rude and distasteful, we're already on edge after this.

I think we all just need to take a breath, ask "would I want this said to me?" and send a more mature reply in debate and chapter threads. If anyone is being rude, report it. No need to get yourself anymore worked up.

Much Love, Destiny

Thanks.

But, we should be debating with them and be friendly as long as they don't cross the line, and when they do cross the line, reporting is the best way to deal with them. It's just as easy as that.

Thanks, that is the best way to behave.

This is not just another Naruto fan forum. For one thing, when I came here 7 years ago, following a link by a NaruSaku fanfic author, I thought it to be an awesome and respective website. Back then, I was very new to the Internet, and when I branched into other Naruto sites, I found a lot of members to be very abrasive and insulting towards NaruSaku fans and each other. However, this is not the case for Heaven and Earth.

Mods and Admins (well, Smiter was the only Admin back then, I think), have ALWAYS encouraged fairness and respect towards other pairing fans that have come here to debate or just hang out. There are NH/SS fans that are friendly towards NS fans and vice versa. Putting a deliberate 'ignore' button means disrespecting their opinion, no matter how reasonable or unreasonable it is, and that means we're stooping so low.

I miss those days, everyone was pretty calm towards each other, no one lashed out too much. Well, there were a few things, but I don't remember them being the result of the shipping wars.

Greed is right, ignore them and scroll down. Like me, I skim through most posts and I don't feel like they're hard to ignore. Besides, this isn't JUST a NaruSaku fanclub, we discuss about games, movies, books, and other things not even related to Naruto fandom. This has become a place where people can gather and talk about things they like, especially because most don't try to persecute people for having conflicting beliefs.

Thanks very much for those comments. I agree, we have seen too many Naruto forums where people regularly abuse others for having a different opinion, and that is why we try to make Heaven & Earth different.

I wish I had more time to talk, but I must rush off! Happy New Year, everyone.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Well when you constantly tell that person why their argument is wrong and they keep on with the same crap, contradicting themselves and changing the subject for their own benefit then it's kinda hard not to call that person out on their stupidity.

You forgot about the fallacies and ad-hominem.