232 replies to this topic

[Codus N]

Do you understand basic math? Half of Kurama's chakra was sealed inside Minato, the other half as well as Kurama himself was sealed within Naruto, all throughout the manga Kurama as been at half strength by Minato giving Naruto the other half of Kurama's chakra he will be at full strength once again.

Actually, I think you're both right and wrong. You're right that it was sealed inside Minato. But you're wrong in that this is rather inconsistent. Remember that Hiruzen sealed the Senju brothers inside himself as well. But they were released from the death god here as well. If that's so, then this should apply to Kurama's chakra as well. Applying this, Kurama's chakra should've returned to himself by now. Unless of course, there's a difference between what Hiruzen and Minato did.

[Mik3]

Where's your podcast? Please don't say Itunes.

Yeah, this




And since Hashirama is capable of breaking free of ET, can he get the rest of the group free?

[James S Cassidy]

Why, really, why? Tell me how Tsunade became better than Hashirama and Tobirama?
5 kages couldn't do what one man will do.
Tell me how do you see this fight being fair and everyone else getting a real battle if the previous kages are going to appear on the battlefield?
I am not even allowed to dream somehow that Sakura for example will surpass at least Tsunade since Hashirama is getting back.
Bleah, so many disappointments...

To be honest Chatte, you're taking the "surpassing" part way too seriously. You making it sound like that the new generation had to be more powerful than the previous generation and I don't think that was the point at all. I always hated this "theme" because it was so vague that it didn't make sense. When you look at Hashirama and Madara and see how powerful they were, How can you surpass them in power? They were two of the strongest shinobi who ever lived.

There is a way for the new generation to surpass the previous, but instead of "surpass" replace it with "succeed where the past have failed." Again, I did a whole thing on this because it is such a ridiculous statement. It undermines what the past has done. Think about this How many generations surpass the previous? Did Itachi's generation surpass the previous? Did Jiraiya's and Tsunade's generation surpass? Did Minato's surpass the previous? Yes and no. They all did something the previous could not, but they also failed in their own ways.

If the Hokage join the battle, it doesn't mean the newer generation didn't surpassed. Naruto's generation managed to do one thing: bring peace to all the nations.

Naruto will end up saving his friend unlike Jiraiya who failed. Sakura will save the love of her life, Naruto, unlike Tsunade who failed to save hers, Dan. So the statement can still be true...from a certain point of view.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 February 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[Killer Bee's Album]

Actually, I think you're both right and wrong. You're right that it was sealed inside Minato. But you're wrong in that this is rather inconsistent. Remember that Hiruzen sealed the Senju brothers inside himself as well. But they were released from the death god here as well. If that's so, then this should apply to Kurama's chakra as well. Applying this, Kurama's chakra should've returned to himself by now. Unless of course, there's a difference between what Hiruzen and Minato did.

The thing is, chakra can be replenish! So it doesn't matter if it was 50% or 90% that was taken, it can be replenish as we've seen in previous chapter Kurama recharging himself. What can't be replenish is the soul, remember the 3rd Hokage's Death Seal that seal the arms of Orochimaru so he couldn't do jutsu seals until now? Time in time again the 9 Tail's chakra has been exploited (that sudo-jinjiruki kid, the Golden Brothers, and the Naruto Clone in the Chikara storyline) but Kurama can just replenish it.

Edited by Killer Bee's Album, 13 February 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

Where's your podcast? Please don't say Itunes.

Really? I have a whole thread of it in the fun cafe.

http://www.youtube.c...4g?feature=mhee

[narusaku4ver]

I guess so but im not sure. After kishi stated that naruto and sasuke would fight i got the feeling that sasuke will still not be completly redeemed after the kage talked to him. Maybe he doesnt want to attack the leaf anymore but i think there will still be something open that he can only realize as soon as he fights with naruto.

The only problem i see with it is that i dont know when they are going to have the fight, since i have the strong believe that sasuke will die during the war by maybe saving naruto or something like that.

I think he will hate even more Konoha he even said "Me and Itachi were both used by the leaf"
His hate towards the village is only growing.

[Codus N]

Yes, it can. But however, that part of Kurama has been brought up so many times in the series to the point it became significant. So, if anything, I think that part of Kurama's will play a huge part in the story. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been brought up so much.

[Killer Bee's Album]

Really? I have a whole thread of it in the fun cafe.

http://www.youtube.c...4g?feature=mhee

So that's what Fun Cafe is? LOL, I usually don't go to threads that have like over 9000+ pages since I do feel the need to back track long chains of conversations to know the latest buzz. I'll check it out then. I sub-ed by the way.

Edited by Killer Bee's Album, 13 February 2013 - 11:16 AM.

[Chatte]

To be honest Chatte, you're taking the "surpassing" part way too seriously. You making it sound like that the new generation had to be more powerful than the previous generation and I don't think that was the point at all. I always hated this "theme" because it was so vague that it didn't make sense. When you look at Hashirama and Madara and see how powerful they were, How can you surpass them in power? They were two of the strongest shinobi who ever lived.

There is a way for the new generation to surpass the previous, but instead of "surpass" replace it with "succeed where the past have failed." Again, I did a whole thing on this because it is such a ridiculous statement. It undermines what the past has done. Think about this How many generations surpass the previous? Did Itachi's generation surpass the previous? Did Jiraiya's and Tsunade's generation surpass? Did Minato's surpass the previous? Yes and no. They all did something the previous could not, but they also failed in their own ways.

If the Hokage join the battle, it doesn't mean the newer generation didn't surpassed. Naruto's generation managed to do one thing: bring peace to all the nations.

Naruto will end up saving his friend unlike Jiraiya who failed. Sakura will save the love of her life, Naruto, unlike Tsunade who failed to save hers, Dan. So the statement can still be true...from a certain point of view.

Well, you could be right, still, it was the theme of surpassing as well since Kakashi said Naruto will surpass the 4th and he did with Rasenshuriken. So it was meant in this way as well.
But meh, I'll just leave it be, don't know why I always have this little hope when I learned to many times Kishi can't be trusted with what he says. And I'll stop here as I know people will jump in my head for being negative again.
Meh..

[Jake]

Well now that you mention it, Naruto fought Pain and almost broke the seal Minato showed up. Long story short he disappeared since the chakra ran out, so where did that chakra go? Plus, Kurama can charge his chakra anytime he wants anyway (that Chp. when the while Allied Shinobi Forces was protecting him to recharge. Plus, Kurama's chakra was stolen a bunch of times and he's still replinished it (by the brothers and the sudo-jinjuriki kid). That half chakra Minato took wasn't permanent, he did it temporarily to ease in Kurama inside the Naruto's baby body as to not disturb the balance. I guess was wrong on that part.

Well, I'm glad we had this argument LOL. Good times.

I just want to say that the amount of chakra the Gold and Silver brothers is negligible they only had about a week and the whole arc with Sora was filler and not canon.

As for the halving Kurama's chakra being a temporary fix, is debatable, while it is possible Kurama could charge back to his full strength but it also possible that he is limited to half strength, I'll place the odds at about 50-50, but regardless Minato arriving and giving Naruto the rest of Kurama's chakra would give a Naruto and the Alliance and boost in strength, maybe Minato could do it as Kurama finishes charging up his chakra again allowing Naruto to give the alliance double what he gave them last time.

Also as for for where Minato's and Kushina's chakra went, their chakra was all used up after their talks with Naruto, simply put it's gone unfortunately (would've been nice if they could've had a family reunion like that).

@Codus N: Yeah I was kinda hoping that Kurama chakra was released automatically, but I only saw four uh... things (I'm guessing the souls of the Hokages) come out of the Shinigami's stomach when Orochimaru cut it open, and while Orochimaru's arms are missing from that it could be that they wen strait for Orochimaru and thus were not seen. the only thing I can thank of that Kurama's chakra is still inside Minato is that Minato only sealed chakra while Hiruzan sealed the actually souls of Hashirama and Tobirama and part of Orochimaru's soul.

[Killer Bee's Album]

Well, you could be right, still, it was the theme of surpassing as well since Kakashi said Naruto will surpass the 4th and he did with Rasenshuriken. So it was meant in this way as well.
But meh, I'll just leave it be, don't know why I always have this little hope when I learned to many times Kishi can't be trusted with what he says. And I'll stop here as I know people will jump in my head for being negative again.
Meh..

As far as "surpassing" goes, the way I interpret it is that times is changing. New generations of Shinobis are beginning to understand that succession no longer requires military might, (more powerful forbidden jutsu/Tailed Beast), or Danzo's Underground elite Shinobis. This theme of surpassing is always being communicated in some form other than the Hokage title. I remember the Elders that always criticize Lady Tsunade whine how there's just no more people left of their generation, Danzo still clinging to a way of Shinobi code that was no longer needed in the new generation of Shinobi, and the Will of Fire poem. I think the succession theme goes way beyond the Hokage title and of sheer power alone.

Edited by Killer Bee's Album, 13 February 2013 - 11:29 AM.

[Codus N]

Wow, Hashirama is a BAMF if you piss him off. I also like how Tobirama was about to break the ET, but was stopped because Orochimaru has the first cells. I am also VERY happy that Orohimaru is more less crapping himself over Hashirama. He might be a goof ball, but his power is nothing to laugh at. He could probably crush everyone in the room if he wanted. Even his fellow Kage.

As for the flashback, I am excited. Flashbacks to recount everything that has happened is one thing, but when a flashback advances the story and gives us new info I am all excited for it. It's not just a cheap flashback, you get to learn the truth of the matter. When the legends become fact. We get to finally see what really happened at that valley battle. A battle so amazing it created a new landmark. It would be funny if Naruto and Sasuke fight there again. It ends where it begins so to speak, but that is just me.

So that doesn't bother me.

BTW, hey Zac see what happens when the First gets serious? S!@# gets real. I wouldn't want to piss the First off. Also, funny how Tobirama says that the ET he did before was actually incomplete and that the one he has done now is a much better version.

I am also curious how much Orochimaru changed. I know TL in the podcast said it was a long shot and such, but I still wonder how much an impact it has created when he took over the Zetsu body. I still wonder if the "positive cells" kind of did something.



As I said in the Podcast, that no one else has yet to say, remember the Seal on Naruto's stomach? Minato embued Kushina's seal with a tag so that he could teleport to her at anytime. Why not the same for Naruto's seal?

So he doesn't need to use the kunai that Kakashi supposedly has. Maybe Minato even saves Naruto the way he saved Kakashi an grabs him from a killing blow. Okay, maybe I am being melodramatic.


Forgot to add. No way anything the First says will change Sasuke opinion or goal. It can't simply because Naruto has to be the one to do it. It would take the whole point away if Sasuke became good now. Not only would it show how Naruto never fails, but never succeeds either. He just does. We need the Naruto vs Sasuke because it is not just about keeping your promises. It is about overcoming yourself.

Speaking of Hashirama...... I just reread the Chuunin exams arc, and found this:

http://www.mangaread...hapter-123.html



Take a look at Hashirama's line.

"The villagers believe in me, and I believe in them. That's what being a Hokage is!! "

This is the one lesson Naruto is sorely lacking in. His lack of trust in his friends. I don't think Naruto has yet realized this is what it truly means to be a leader. And if he starts getting whiny again like in 615, I pray to god up there may the God of Shinobi himself beat the living snot out of him. That'd finally get it through his thick skull.

[James S Cassidy]

Well, you could be right, still, it was the theme of surpassing as well since Kakashi said Naruto will surpass the 4th and he did with Rasenshuriken. So it was meant in this way as well.
But meh, I'll just leave it be, don't know why I always have this little hope when I learned to many times Kishi can't be trusted with what he says. And I'll stop here as I know people will jump in my head for being negative again.
Meh..

Yes, but Minato was much older and wiser than Naruto.

They will surpass in power eventually, yes, but they are still young. Naruto is what, 16? Let him grow up to be Minato's age and then let's see how much that statement is true.

I really don't expect Naruto or Sakura to surpass in power of Minato and Tsunade now simply because they are still young. What I took from Kakashi saying that he did was that Naruto has the potential to surpass the older he gets and the more he learns. As well Sakura has the potential to surpass Tsunade. We know Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya being a sage.

Here is another question, how powerful was Minato at Naruto's age? We don't know. So I am going to assume that Minato is judged at his peak. I could also make the statement false by saying "Well, he is more powerful than Minato, but still is weaker compared to the first."

There is so many variables that can make this statement true AND false at the same time. That's why I am looking at it in a different light to nail down the true meaning.

This is the one lesson Naruto is sorely lacking in. His lack of trust in his friends. I don't think Naruto has yet realized this is what it truly means to be a leader. And if he starts getting whiny again like in 615, I pray to god up there may the God of Shinobi himself beat the living snot out of him. That'd finally get it through his thick skull.

I rather have Sakura do it.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 February 2013 - 11:33 AM.

[Chucky-kun]

The thing is, chakra can be replenish! So it doesn't matter if it was 50% or 90% that was taken, it can be replenish as we've seen in previous chapter Kurama recharging himself. What can't be replenish is the soul, remember the 3rd Hokage's Death Seal that seal the arms of Orochimaru so he couldn't do jutsu seals until now? Time in time again the 9 Tail's chakra has been exploited (that sudo-jinjiruki kid, the Golden Brothers, and the Naruto Clone in the Chikara storyline) but Kurama can just replenish it.

Ok, ima dumb it down for ya brah LOL

1 litre of water is halved and put into two separate 500ml containers.
Minato's 500ml he takes with his body to his death.
The other 500ml container is added to Naruto's own container so naruto has 2 containers.
The 500ml container can't miraculously double its own size.
LOL.

[Codus N]

I rather have Sakura do it.

Unless I see Mito doing it, I'll still stick with Hashirama. That said, I do have the feeling Hashirama used to be like Naruto as of now. I mean, all that power had to have gotten into his head at some point and gave him a big hero complex. It wasn't until Mito put him down that he learned the lesson.

[Chatte]

Yes, but Minato was much older and wiser than Naruto.

They will surpass in power eventually, yes, but they are still young. Naruto is what, 16? Let him grow up to be Minato's age and then let's see how much that statement is true.

I really don't expect Naruto or Sakura to surpass in power of Minato and Tsunade now simply because they are still young. What I took from Kakashi saying that he did was that Naruto has the potential to surpass the older he gets and the more he learns. As well Sakura has the potential to surpass Tsunade. We know Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya being a sage.

Here is another question, how powerful was Minato at Naruto's age? We don't know. So I am going to assume that Minato is judged at his peak. I could also make the statement false by saying "Well, he is more powerful than Minato, but still is weaker compared to the first."

There is so many variables that can make this statement true AND false at the same time. That's why I am looking at it in a different light to nail down the true meaning.



I rather have Sakura do it.

Meh dunno about that, it was stated 2 times now that Naruto surpassed his parents in power and it was most likely referred as in sheer power, not counting the age. Why to wait for the age since Naruto can do it at present age. What? To wait for the manga to finish and just suppose that Sakura has surpassed Tsunade because 2 characters said she has the potential?
I'd say let's just not lie ourselves, Kishi screws big times other characters. He is focusing so much on the past generation when this would be supposed to be about this current generation. We barely see them fighting.
But once again, it's just me being a fool once again. Don't know why I keep putting my hopes in Kishi since for the past couple of years at least, I was disappointed.
But this damn hope keeps clinging...Whatever..

Edited by Chatte, 13 February 2013 - 11:39 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

Unless I see Mito doing it, I'll still stick with Hashirama. That said, I do have the feeling Hashirama used to be like Naruto as of now. I mean, all that power had to have gotten into his head at some point and gave him a big hero complex. It wasn't until Mito put him down that he learned the lesson.

I think it would make much more sense for Sakura to do it than Hashirama.

"Behind every good man is a great women"

Meh dunno about that, it was stated 2 times now that Naruto surpassed his parents in power and it was most likely referred as in sheer power, not counting the age. Why to wait for the age since Naruto can do it at present age. What? To wait for the manga to finish and just suppose that Sakura has surpassed Tsunade because 2 characters said she has the potential?
I'd say let's just not lie ourselves, Kishi screws big times other characters. He is focusing so much on the past generation when this would be supposed to be about this current generation. We barely see them fighting.
But once again, it's just me being a fool once again. Don't know why I keep putting my hopes in Kishi since for the past couple of years at least, I was disappointed.
But this damn hope keeps clinging...Whatever..

Bolded: If that's the case, then the statement has already come true and you don't need to worry about it anymore. You say you keep getting your hopes up, well what if I said you keep putting your hopes down? Always looking at the bad and thinking just because it is not what you expect means it is not right.

I am not lying to myself, I am merely trying to understand the true meaning. There are many ways that the statement can be true and false. You keep wanting to look at one aspect of it. Shear raw power. There are many things that the First hokage could not do despite all the power he possessed. He couldn't solve the Uchiha problem. He couldn't achieve full true peace even though he tried.

There are many things and many ways that this statement can be applied, but it seems like the newer generation has to be better in EVERYTHING they do. How can this truly be possible? You surpass what is already successful. That's like trying to perfect perfection.

I am not trying to say "There is hope." I am trying to show you that perhaps you are looking at it wrong. Power is only one aspect. As it is being shown, power alone doesn't change the world. It's influence. To teach the newer generation to not make the same mistakes.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 February 2013 - 11:54 AM.

[Chucky-kun]

I think it would make much more sense for Sakura to do it than Hashirama.

"Behind every good man is a great women"

To add on, remember sakura's little inner speech of how Naruto always gets these insurmountable tasks and how they'll be together this time.

[Chatte]

I think it would make much more sense for Sakura to do it than Hashirama.

"Behind every good man is a great women"

To add on, remember sakura's little inner speech of how Naruto always gets these insurmountable tasks and how they'll be together this time.

That would be nice to see but dunno what to think anymore since he trolled Sakura...dare I say, beyond repair. Because he left the people understand with 615 that behind Naruto, was Hinata. She is the first lady, bla bla and I don't know what will top that!

[PhenixElite]

That would be nice to see but dunno what to think anymore since he trolled Sakura...dare I say, beyond repair. Because he left the people understand with 615 that behind Naruto, was Hinata. She is the first lady, bla bla and I don't know what will top that!

Ohh come on lets not get that deep again.

I dont know why but every new chapter is released some people always get back to 615.

Edited by PhenixElite, 13 February 2013 - 11:50 AM.