124 replies to this topic

[Madz]

I loved the chapter...I like that Naruto is NOT giving up on Sasuke even if the whole world is advising him agaisnt it.
But I'm very nervous about the clear Naruhina vibe of this chapter...If this is about Naruto's memory, then he remembers / realise that Hinata has always supported him. Well WE knew that, but for Kishi to have emphasize on this fact here...is quite disturbing.
Why would Kishi propped this type of Info right in the middle of a war? I understand the flashback about Sasuke, I even understand the part about Sakura as it's a sort of team 7, but Hinata...?

[Torxe]

I didn't like the flashback the talk between kyuubi and Naruto was epic though.

For Kyuubi I have one word => OWNED

As for Naruto acting strangely, how would you be kyuubi was making fun of his resolve. Kyuubi may be glad he got away like he did

Naruto did look badass when he looked in the kyuubi's eye.

[Insurrection]

Seriously? --Click here to view--

Okay We may be a pairing fansite but we are seriously overreading the pairings in this chapter. This was only a chapter of self-inflection (I agree with Mik3 and Cassidy that has been done a little too much because it seems like this was only a stall chapter for Kishi). If anything we learned that Kyuubi is in full agreement with some people when it comes to Sasuke. I like how they did the hand symbol thing to tie back into the Original Sasuke v Naruto fight, but it only shows the sight of Sasuke's redemption. Naruto's out to do what he sees as right, the staring into Kyuubi's eye, major plus.

Edited by Insurrection, 12 May 2011 - 07:42 AM.

[Kuraudo]

Great chapter...

Info... --Click here to view--

About talk-talk between Naruto and Kyubi; this talking is all about Kyubi and his offering power to Naruto. Naruto was smart and show him who is a Big Boss! Kyubi is concerned that Naruto will die and take him with him. Kyubi only really cares about himself. In order for him to insure his survival in the events to come, He has to give Naruto all his help, power etc. or they might both die. Seems that Kyubi is afraid of what is going to happen... I believe in Naruto and in his confidence. Kyubi must believe in Naruto!

Edited by Kuraudo, 12 May 2011 - 10:04 AM.

[Yoh]

Thoughts --Click here to view--

This chapter reminded me of the NARUTO x Uniqlo OVA: that "harmony" hand sign has left me confused.. if Naruto and Sasuke weren't holding their fingers together, then whose hands did we see in the OVA?.. (I know that it's not a canon thing, but still...)

Edited by Yoh, 12 May 2011 - 12:24 PM.

[Paptala]

Thoughts --Click here to view--

This chapter reminded me of the NARUTO x Uniqlo OVA: that "harmony" hand sign has left me confused.. if Naruto and Sasuke weren't holding their fingers together, then whose hands did we see in the OVA?.. (I know that it's not a canon thing, but still...)

Naruto and Sasuke did link fingers - at the end of their fight at VOTE.

That wasn't a flashback, it was a more of a symbolization of what Naruto and Sasuke were feeling at that point. Which we now know is a sign that they are still comrades despite the fight.

Just because they didn't do so at that point as children, didn't mean that acknowledgement didn't occur at the Valley of the End years later.

Edited by Paptala, 12 May 2011 - 12:31 PM.

[ShippudenGirl]

LOL, yes this is a fansite but we're not even half as bad as Hinata fans get in this situation. Geez, they'll see her in the freaking background of a chapter and be like "OHMEHGAWD!" I've seen too many NH fans to know this is fact. 'Course their ain't any real pairing reference (though some think every friggin scene with opposite gender interaction to be romantic). On Sakura's part though, she looks like Ino's puppy— follow her around and like what she likes, etc.

Edited by ShippudenGirl, 12 May 2011 - 01:22 PM.

[tricksie]

Everybody's back and forth over self-reflection vs. shipping stuff....Did no one else notice how many eyeballs were in this chapter? That's what this one's about. Eyeballs.

eyes-only panels
kyuubi: 4
naruto: 3
sasuke: 1

uber closeup: panel centered around both eyes only or has big eyeball in it along with background
naruto: 4
kyuubi: 2
sasuke: 2

And the final swan song of the chapter is Naruto staring into the kyuubi's eye. Of course. The eye-cing on the cake, *ahem* as it were.

So that makes eight panels of just eyeballs. EIGHT!

Plus another eight where the focus of attention was on half of the face, close crop on a single eyeball and a bit of scenery to ground the panel (like Naruto's eye looking back through the fence).

(Three others I didn't include: two closeups of Naruto and Sasuke, but I consider them run-of-the-mill close crop on eyes, nose and mouth. And one of half Naruto's face in the first panel of the flashback. The focus is on the flashback, and the close crop on his face is to be expected.)

So basically, wherever you stand in a room, this chapter is going to follow you with it's eyes. Eye.
...creepy....

[Yoh]

Naruto and Sasuke did link fingers - at the end of their fight at VOTE.

You mean this? Hmm... I always thought that this was some kind of "illusion": we see Naruto and Sasuke as kinds, not in the Kyuubi cloak and Curse mark mode.. So they actually linked fingers after Chidori vs. Rasengan?

[ShippudenGirl]

You mean this? Hmm... I always thought that this was some kind of "illusion": we see Naruto and Sasuke as kinds, not in the Kyuubi cloak and Curse mark mode.. So they actually linked fingers after Chidori vs. Rasengan?

I agree. Naruto has always seen Sasuke as something he never really was: like a true friend or a sane person.

[Nick Soapdish]

You mean this? Hmm... I always thought that this was some kind of "illusion": we see Naruto and Sasuke as kinds, not in the Kyuubi cloak and Curse mark mode.. So they actually linked fingers after Chidori vs. Rasengan?

I think that it was symbolic. It's just reiterating that Sasuke did acknowledge Naruto as worthy of his respect and a real shinobi in that fight. He put the forehead protector on and counter to his prediction, Naruto was able to put a scratch on it.


And just as a general comment, but please refrain from the speculation and commentary about how other fandoms will react to the chapter.

[Yoh]

I think that it was symbolic. It's just reiterating that Sasuke did acknowledge Naruto as worthy of his respect and a real shinobi in that fight. He put the forehead protector on and counter to his prediction, Naruto was able to put a scratch on it.

That. Exactly that.
thank you for a good explanation.

[tricksie]

More thoughts about the Kyuubi eyeball/Naruto reflection image. Tthere is so much in that one graphic it's hard to know where to start.

• First, Naruto sees himself in the Kyuubi. The two are one, and he's accepted it.

• Naruto is reflecting back, like a mirror. Which says he's also not lost himself to this other thing inside.

• The eye color is varying shades of red, orange, black, yellow, etc. So the image reflected back would probably in those colors, Naruto with a reddish tint, fading to oranges and blacks. It would look like Dark Naruto. So, the reader could see real Naruto, Dark Naruto and the Kyuubi all in one. With real Naruto holding the reins.

• Lastly, his words about Sasuke, i think reflect him right now. He went at Sasuke even though there was no hope. But he was the only one who believed in himself. Right now, he's standing on the kyuubi's snout, after talking smack to a demon. He had to believe in himself to control the fox inside (and Dark Naruto, for that matter). And now he has to believe in himself Sasuke. The childhood fight reflects that. Just like then, now no one believes in him. But he's not letting it stop him. So this image becomes a reflection of all the things he mastered to get him to this point in his life.

(i love this stuff.)

[Fyuria'sLeo]

More thoughts about the Kyuubi eyeball/Naruto reflection image. Tthere is so much in that one graphic it's hard to know where to start.

• First, Naruto sees himself in the Kyuubi. The two are one, and he's accepted it.

• Naruto is reflecting back, like a mirror. Which says he's also not lost himself to this other thing inside.

• The eye color is varying shades of red, orange, black, yellow, etc. So the image reflected back would probably in those colors, Naruto with a reddish tint, fading to oranges and blacks. It would look like Dark Naruto. So, the reader could see real Naruto, Dark Naruto and the Kyuubi all in one. With real Naruto holding the reins.

• Lastly, his words about Sasuke, i think reflect him right now. He went at Sasuke even though there was no hope. But he was the only one who believed in himself. Right now, he's standing on the kyuubi's snout, after talking smack to a demon. He had to believe in himself to control the fox inside (and Dark Naruto, for that matter). And now he has to believe in himself Sasuke. The childhood fight reflects that. Just like then, now no one believes in him. But he's not letting it stop him. So this image becomes a reflection of all the things he mastered to get him to this point in his life.

(i love this stuff.)

I really like the way you wrote your reply it showed that you put your heart into writing this. And agree with you 100%.

[TAMU Express]

My only problem is that the flashback should have occupied a few pages not eight. I think the he could have made the point about Sasuke's hate without all the extra character interactions beside Naruto and Sasuke. This chapter, in my opinion, just reaffirmed what we learned from part I: Naruto's and Sasuke's relationship is the driving force behind the story.

[K9ofChaos]

With all this discussion of what Naruto's going to do with Sasuke, it reminds me of a quote I heard sometime ago: "You can't save those who don't want to be saved", I think that quote holds true for Sasuke and what Naruto is deciding to do with him.

That quote is what I'm talking about. Naruto can't save Sasuke if he himself doesn't want to be saved. Naruto could try hard and never give up but that doesn't mean it will increase his chances of success regarding Sasuke's redemption. Even if he succeeds in redeeming Sasuke it would still be a cheap copout on Kishimoto's part because he failed to actually make Sasuke into a decent likably character with some redeeming qualities that could enable me to sympathize with the character much easier. Instead we got an overrated arrogant whiny emo douchebag with zero likable traits that uses his traumatic experiences as an excuse to justify his criminal actions which in turn disregard his brother's wishes for the Hidden Leaf Village to be safe.


But if Kishimoto actually has the balls to kill off Sasuke as a despicable excuse for a human being who let's his obsession with revenge eat away what's left of his sanity, then I guess that Naruto would probably be perfectly content at knowing that he at the very least tried to save him and didn't give up until the very end. Sure he'd be just as sad as anyone who lost a friend (though the reason why he would even remotely consider that a**hole a friend is beyond me) but he at least still worked hard to try and accomplish an impossible goal. Thus accepting the harsh reality of Sasuke being dead and simply not wanting to be saved while still holding true to his own personal philosophy of never giving up, retreating out of fear and keeping his promises he makes to various people with extreme amounts of care and commitment. Though I could be wrong about this scenario but at the end of the day it's just as much of a prediction as any other one I guess.

[alexander]

That quote is what I'm talking about. Naruto can't save Sasuke if he himself doesn't want to be saved. Naruto could try hard and never give up but that doesn't mean it will increase his chances of success regarding Sasuke's redemption. Even if he succeeds in redeeming Sasuke it would still be a cheap copout on Kishimoto's part because he failed to actually make Sasuke into a decent likably character with some redeeming qualities that could enable me to sympathize with the character much easier. Instead we got an overrated arrogant whiny emo douchebag with zero likable traits that uses his traumatic experiences as an excuse to justify his criminal actions which in turn disregard his brother's wishes for the Hidden Leaf Village to be safe.


But if Kishimoto actually has the balls to kill off Sasuke as a despicable excuse for a human being who let's his obsession with revenge eat away what's left of his sanity, then I guess that Naruto would probably be perfectly content at knowing that he at the very least tried to save him and didn't give up until the very end. Sure he'd be just as sad as anyone who lost a friend (though the reason why he would even remotely consider that a**hole a friend is beyond me) but he at least still worked hard to try and accomplish an impossible goal. Thus accepting the harsh reality of Sasuke being dead and simply not wanting to be saved while still holding true to his own personal philosophy of never giving up, retreating out of fear and keeping his promises he makes to various people with extreme amounts of care and commitment. Though I could be wrong about this scenario but at the end of the day it's just as much of a prediction as any other one I guess.

This... just this.
Even tought see Sasuke gain an early pass to the afterlife would make my day, I'm afraid Kishimoto is just way too soft to actually kill him.

[ciardha]

Killing Sasuke off unreedeemed isn't very likely to happen, the sacrifice himself for Naruto type redemption is a possibility, and Naruto would still achieve his goal.

But my feeling is Sasuke will have the harder type redemption road- ala Kenshin, become a wanderer trying to atone for the bad he's done. That type storyline has a looong history in Japan- at least back to the Kamakura era (1185-1333). Sasuke just feels too set up to be that type character to me by now.

[Strangelove]

I didn't like the flashback the talk between kyuubi and Naruto was epic though.

For Kyuubi I have one word => OWNED

As for Naruto acting strangely, how would you be kyuubi was making fun of his resolve. Kyuubi may be glad he got away like he did

Naruto did look badass when he looked in the kyuubi's eye.

He was owned before, Naruto beat the Kyuubi without using its power. The fox of course is pure evil, and he doesn't want Naruto to get captured, or is curtains for him, but if he learns that his capture, will bring his completed form, then he might actually go along with it.

Edited by Strangelove, 12 May 2011 - 10:00 PM.

[Quinny52]

Some people were wondering about this flashback, and how it's supposed to be about Naruto and Sasuke's first meeting and yet all the other characters are seen and heard as well, and I think I may know what that's about.

This might get a bit deep but... --Click here to view--

It seems to me that Kishi intended for this flashback to take up the majority of the chapter, so he included the other students and their actions to 'flesh out' the scenes, but it also works for the readers benefit. We can see the flashback from multiple angles because it now involves multiple people, and helps us get a better understanding of what they were thinking at the time. But, I believe this is what WE (the readers) are supposed to see, and what Naruto will be seeing in the flashback will be the events he witnessed from his own perspective (i.e hearing the girls cheering for Sasuke, seeing Shikamaru and Choji settle their spar, facing up to Sasuke, looking into his eyes etc). However, the other actions going on in the flashback are what we are supposed to be seeing along with Naruto's experiences, such as Sakura and Ino's/Kiba and Shino's respective conversations, Hinata's attempt to encourage Naruto being drowned out by the Sasuke fangirls, and lastly Sakura's reaction in THAT panel after the fight ended. What I'm saying is that we are the only ones who are seeing these events, whereas Naruto is actually only recalling the things he himself experienced.

Sounds like I'm looking into things a bit deep I know, but I think this could answer the events of another chapter (or in this case, chapters). Remember the Kushina flashback of the Nine-tails'/Madara attack, and yet there were characters in those chapters (Itachi, the 3rd, Kakashi and his peers, Iruka, etc) who weren't even near Kushina at the time, or how Minato's battle with Madara was shown despite them being a considerable distance away from her? I believe Kishi used the same method here back then. 'Fleshing-out' the scenes by showing the experiences and perspectives of loads of other characters to give us, the readers, a greater understanding the whole event and how they were affected, but in reality, Kushina would only have been reliving her own memory of events (the talk with Mikoto, going into labour, her capture by Madara, being reunited with her family and finally her and Minato's sacrifice). Because some have asked the question before, how are these characters appearing in this flashback when Kushina was some distance from anyone else in the village and it's supposed to be from her perspective? I believe this might be the answer.

Whew I hope no one got too confused by that, I tried to keep it as simple as I could.

Now onto Sasuke... --Click here to view--

I understand where some people are coming from when they say that Naruto attempts to save Sasuke from himself appears to now be a lost cause, or how he can stop the cycle of hate, but the thing is, for a while these two things were seperate issues in Naruto's mind, but now they are intertwined, and one will surely affect the other. I say this because Sasuke is now essentially the epitome of the cycle of hatred. while it has claimed many individuals over the years, Sasuke is it's latest and arguably its greatest victim. And if Naruto cannot redeem Sasuke (or get Sasuke onto a more suitable path so he can do so himself, as @ciardha highlighted) before this series ends, then the cycle will remain unbroken, and all Naruto has fought for will be for nought, and Jiraiya, Itachi and Nagato's sacrifices will be in vain. Everything is riding on this.

Edited by Quinny52, 12 May 2011 - 10:29 PM.