The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread!
#5841
Guest_Kim_*
Posted 14 October 2011 - 05:22 PM
#5842
Posted 14 October 2011 - 05:31 PM
Whereas Naruto, there are two pairings (one with a strong development and chemistry and one that does not have that) where there's like this animosity that I don't like about it. I can't quite describe, but there's something that I don't like in this pairings war.
However, I'm sure in an alternate universe that the epilogue would have naruhina, in the end, and make it work, but that's not the case here.
Exactly. Plus, (for me) almost all Fairy Tail characters are more... um... likable..?
Yes.
On Tvtropes, it is stated that the NH fandom sees Konohamaru/Hanabi as a Generation Xerox of NH. I think this is wrong on so many levels. If you ask me, Konohamaru/Hanabi is closer to being a Generation Xerox of NS (perhaps even more closer to MinaKushi). As we can see in her brief appearance, I think we can easily deduce that her personality is closer to that of Neji.
So, if Konohamaru/Hanabi would work, it would work like NS do. Hanabi would probably look down on Konohamaru at first, but slowly, Konohamaru gains recognition from her. We all know Konohamaru desires recognition from everyone as Konohamaru not Konohamaru of the Sarutobi clan.
OMG!! Konohamaru/Hanabi is even worse than NH...
#5843
Posted 14 October 2011 - 05:32 PM
That was anime only but I support both.
Well, this is mostly because I read a Konohamaru/Hanabi fic once and it was so in character for the both of them that I started liking it (although the author is a NH fan, it seems. I will be pissed if she tries to make parallels with NH). And besides, if you look closely between the lines or underneath, you could see that Hanabi would probably look down on Konohamaru but Konohamaru eventually warms up to her.
EDIT: @Roxy: Not necessarily, but if you look at NS and MK, you see that the girl looks down on the boy at first, but eventually makes the girl fall for him. I could see Konohamaru making her fall for him, even if he doesn't necessarily like her back.
Edited by Codus N, 14 October 2011 - 05:35 PM.

The family that couldn't be.
[post='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EItApJttbY']An Underrated Song Worth Listening[/post]
#5844
Posted 14 October 2011 - 05:38 PM
Edited by iamfenris, 14 October 2011 - 05:39 PM.

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#5845
Posted 14 October 2011 - 06:02 PM
No evidence they've ever met. Plus Hanabi is a year younger than Konohamaru so they wouldn't have even been in the Academy together. In the manga we haven't seen much of what Moegi's personality is like to judge. Not really enough of Hanabi's either. Hanabi was more assertive a fighter like Neiji, and she questioned her father a bit on things unlike either Hinata or Neiji. Konohamaru is more like Jiraiya than Naruto: he loves the perverted stuff, and did so years before he even hit puberty. (You want to know who'll be writing novels like Jiraiya's and Konohamaru is the perfect candidate) he's smarter than Naruto but still impulsive like Jiraiya was, and he's more sarcastic with his friends like Jiraiya was.
When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono
Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009
#5846
Posted 14 October 2011 - 06:16 PM
#5847
Posted 14 October 2011 - 06:21 PM
though moegi seems more likely
#5848
Posted 14 October 2011 - 07:40 PM
@Fyuria'sLeo: I notice you changed your sig from having NaruSaku on top and NaruIno on bottom to NaruIno top and NaruSaku bottom!
Left Hand to the Future Pirate King
Vinsmoke "Black Leg" Sanji
#5849
Posted 14 October 2011 - 08:22 PM
That was one interview where Kishi just went along with the interviewer. The interviewer wished Hinata her chance, he replied 'Me too.' It proves Kishi is vague in his replies.
He said he was trying to depict and honest and determined girl blah blah. It says nothing at all. It’s not evidence unless you can prove what he meant one way or another. That’s the point of why its misused. You can only speculate so it is not safe evidence. It's the same as Kishi saying 'Me too' in the NH interview. You certainly can't use that to prove NH because he could mean many many things.
If she didn’t know who she loved, she was lying. She could not, without a doubt, choose Naruto at that time. I agree she is confused, but she was not ready to confess; she was still hung up on Sasuke and could not give her heart fully to Naruto. Like I said, there is no point to crucify Sakura. It was a mistake.
And about why Sakura confessed her love, she considered it the best way to get Naruto to return with her to the village. That is why she said she went out there. Her priority was protecting him, not confessing any feelings. She knew it was wrong, she thought 'Sorry, Naruto!' and looked upset; but in comparison to him dying, it was what she thought was the priority.
Who is saying everything Hinata does is honest and everything Sakura does is dishonest? Not sure where you got this impression.
If you can’t tell a difference between Hinata’s confession and Sakura’s, then I don’t know what to tell you. They were extremely different. Hinata was introduced being in love with him, Sakura wasn’t. Most of Hinata’s character revolves around her love and admiration for Naruto, Sakura character revolves around changing from hate to ultimate respect for him. Hinata is straightforward, Sakura isn’t.
And really, its not treating Sakura badly to say the truth. It’s treating Sakura badly if you are covering up for her mistakes. She is largely a character about growth. She is, like you said, a teenager, she is supposed to be a real girl type character. What’s the point of hiding her faults? I feel there are too many Sakura fans who try to say she is perfection and therefore lack a huge understanding of who she is. Naruto certainly didn’t fall for her because she was perfect; he fell for her because she was like him: someone who could not gain acknowledgment easily.
Sorry, the Sasuke part was entirely part of the confession. You can’t just say its some separate entity; it’s the major reason why she was made to look dishonest, and it was her own idea to bring Sasuke up in the first place. Not a good idea when you are confessing to someone, correct?
Depends on the portrayal by the author, doesn’t it? Most things Sakura says are truthful. This time it happened to be a cover up. Do you believe it more correct to blindly just believe everything a character says just because you like them? Does that make you a better fan? No, it doesn’t.
Do you have any ideas to what Kishi meant by, "honest girl"?
To me I thought there could be two possibilities.
First possibility is, she is honest in a way she shows her bad side(being a little bit manipulative, arrogant towards Naruto).
Second possibility I thought is, that she can't lie. She lies terribly because she's not used to it. She's not used to it because she's supposed to be an honest girl.
FOR ME that's the same as WAVING a WHITE FLAG and saying to the NH fanbase OH WE agree with YOU NaruHina will happen!!! Congratulations!!!! I'm NOT going down that road
I don't know what to wait from Kishi anymore.. Last chapter showed us that he loves to troll way too much + will use more plot twists and surprises (like the fake! and real!Madara).. I'm afraid that NS is in a great danger... =((((
I feel that way sometimes too you're not alone
When she confessed to Sasuke (when he was leaving the village), it was out of desperation, an urgent need to keep him back in the village (even though she was in love / infactuated or whatever you want to name it, it was still a 'retaining' confession more than anything else.)
And when she confessed to Naruto, again it was out of desperation to keep him back at all cost.
To me, it's the way Sakura is, impulsive and willing to give ALL for her 'loved' ones, and to me, that's why I put both her confessions on the same balance. If she thinks her feeling for Sasuke is true, then her feelings for Naruto IS true. (Don't know whether I'm making any sense in here).
Now, what worries me in Kishi going the way he is about Naru / Hina is that he can be preparing the development that was always missing between these two. He is throwing quite a lot of small - maybe insignificant at this time but still - interactions between the two in here.
We may argue that these are too few, but hey, in romance sometimes you need only a few days to fall for someone, especially in this case it's not as if Hinata is a total stranger for Naruto.
So, my hope now is that Kishi is preparing a huge, nice Narusaku soon for us, something which we all have been forecasting (like a hug or a kiss on the forehead or whatever), something which will in one sweep will flush all these small naruhina interactions as totally insignificant.
It's possible so I won't oppose it
With a author as random on romance as Kishi who wouldn't be, HMM!!??
Me, I look at manga and can pick up basically right away what the final canon couple is going to be. Shonen, Shoujo, Seinen or Josei. And seriously, Kishimoto has made it even more obvious than most shonen manga writers do, and shonen is the easiest to catch onto, since the romance is most often secondary, at most, to the main plot. (As it is with Naruto.) The constant emoing over nothing and even over obvious build up on narusaku does kind of get annoying in a site devoted to narusaku.
Heck, I saw less a lot less emoing amongst SpikexBuffy fans in Buffy the Vampire Slayer fans in seasons 6 and 7 than here amongst narusaku fans, and that with still some lingering mutual feelings between Angel and Buffy. (In the current comics Joss Whedon looks like he's finally working toward the AngelxFaith and SpikexBuffy resolution he laid the ground for on the BTVS and Angel TV shows. Joss has a bad tendency to dislike resolving anything though, so we shall see. You can only drag things out so long before fans start getting exasperated and leaving.)
I will say Kishimoto has reached that point storytelling wise, this may also be why the emoing is getting so bad. I can look at a story from a observers sense as well- having an instinct for when a plotline has crossed over into too long a time for readers to resolve. It's kind of starting to drift over into a bit long for the narusaku plotline to reach culmination, and move onto something closer to Minato's and Kushina's relationship once the mutual affection was realized. He's throwing out hints that their relationship is there, but doing so without the scene that outright showing that they are indeed a couple now. Naruto's mental image of Sakura in chapter 505, and the way Sakura looked at Naruto when he rescued her from Sasuke has been the most overt he's been. Looks like for a lot of the fandom they need something more shoujo manga romantic scene wise between Naruto and Sakura. Not really Kishimoto's style though.
It's not over yet ciardha. -__- I don't doubt your intuition but ANY pairing can change in a story at the end you never know
I would really like to know who you think Erza and Gray from Fairy Tail would end up with. Natsu and Lucy would be the obvious pairing.
Natsu and Lucy I agree with
Edited by Phantom_999, 14 October 2011 - 08:27 PM.
#5850
Posted 14 October 2011 - 09:44 PM
This isn't an American superhero comic where the writer changes every couple of years and all the relationships changes and nothing is permanent. It's not intuition, it's from nearly 30 years of reading manga- you know which romantic plot guideline they are using. Kishimoto is even more obvious from the start with narusaku than most other shonen mangaka who write the plotline tsundere type girl falls for the boy who loves her that she initially dismissed. I'm incredulous, with how Kishimoto tells you again and again via all kinds of characters words, actions and relationships that the romantic plotline is the tsundere girl who initially dismisses the boy who loves her falls in love with him that anyone would still doubt narusaku is the pairing. I've never seen even a shonen mangaka spell it out over and over so obviously.
As for Fairy Tale, Mashima is using the soap opera formula- in other words just playing with the concepts of romantic relationships. It's a formula I don't care for in fiction east or west so I quickly lost interest in Fairy Tale. (added to that the fan service became excessive to me.) The outright soap opera formula isn't that common in manga, it's much more common in American superhero comics. Tenchi is one of the few other popular anime/manga that used that formula overtly- but for humor. Harem manga stories like Tenchi tend to use a variant of it, where ones like Love Hina take the tsundere girl plotline mixed in with the soap opera plotline. Mashima is doing an ensemble storyline with the soap opera plotline. Mashima even admits he doesn't plot much beyond what he is currently writing, that he doesn't know where it will end- this is typical with the soap opera plotline. It also tends to make characters past relationships have more intensity than their current ones. One only has to look at Ezra's past storyline arc to see that.
When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono
Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009
#5851
Posted 14 October 2011 - 09:54 PM
@Fyuria'sLeo: I notice you changed your sig from having NaruSaku on top and NaruIno on bottom to NaruIno top and NaruSaku bottom!
I had to move the stuff around to make it look good....
#5852
Posted 14 October 2011 - 10:36 PM
It shouldn't just be us vs. them. That's not the way to read the manga. No one is waving a white flag by just admitting a character has flaws. How is saying Sakura wasn't truthful the same as saying NH will happen? That's not how I see it at all... NH likes to say no negative development (aka rarely any development at all) means they are going strong whereas if NS gets negative development they are done for. I don't think that's the way to look at the manga at all. Since real relationships aren't just perfect, I don't expect Kishi to portray his characters in an always positive light either.
Oh I'm doing good. Glad it's the weekend! You?
#5853
Posted 14 October 2011 - 11:09 PM
On Tvtropes, it is stated that the NH fandom sees Konohamaru/Hanabi as a Generation Xerox of NH. I think this is wrong on so many levels. If you ask me, Konohamaru/Hanabi is closer to being a Generation Xerox of NS (perhaps even more closer to MinaKushi). As we can see in her brief appearance, I think we can easily deduce that her personality is closer to that of Neji.
So, if Konohamaru/Hanabi would work, it would work like NS do. Hanabi would probably look down on Konohamaru at first, but slowly, Konohamaru gains recognition from her. We all know Konohamaru desires recognition from everyone as Konohamaru not Konohamaru of the Sarutobi clan.
I'm not going to spend a ton of time with this since it's a straight fan pairing, so whether they claim it or not is irrelevant. Other than the personal connections (Konohamaru as Naruto's "rival" and Hanabi as Hinata's sister), it's not at all. I've seen it as a common side pairing to NaruHina. The most common portrayals are as Neji minus the fatalism or a mini Hiashi. From what little we know she comes across as considerably more assertive and self-confident. She's not the same as Hinata or Sakura. Really, I don't think of it as a Xerox of either pairing.
I don't know.....I've hear stories about the old Ranma shippings wars that suggest it was much worse. And several years later tons of Potter fans are still bitter as hell about what Rowling did (As someone who never read it, I have no opinion).
That was be really boring. And probably really cheesy too.
#5854
Posted 15 October 2011 - 12:44 AM
As for Fairy Tale, Mashima is using the soap opera formula- in other words just playing with the concepts of romantic relationships. It's a formula I don't care for in fiction east or west so I quickly lost interest in Fairy Tale. (added to that the fan service became excessive to me.) The outright soap opera formula isn't that common in manga, it's much more common in American superhero comics. Tenchi is one of the few other popular anime/manga that used that formula overtly- but for humor. Harem manga stories like Tenchi tend to use a variant of it, where ones like Love Hina take the tsundere girl plotline mixed in with the soap opera plotline. Mashima is doing an ensemble storyline with the soap opera plotline. Mashima even admits he doesn't plot much beyond what he is currently writing, that he doesn't know where it will end- this is typical with the soap opera plotline. It also tends to make characters past relationships have more intensity than their current ones. One only has to look at Ezra's past storyline arc to see that.
Oh I'm not talking about Naruto I know NS will happen Like I said I just snap and worry sometimes because I'm Particularly sensitive about NS because some NH fans are SO G**D*** annoying about it! Yeah And even though writers make a good foundation between characters they can ALWAYS pull a 180 in the end you can't deny that any writer can fiddle with their work like that you must admit it
Oh I'm doing good. Glad it's the weekend! You?
Ehh Sakura is always bashed even when she's Portrayed in a POSITIVE light So I just don't want further incentive for others to bash on her Plus if she was lying to Naruto about her feelings I would not like NS going down like that. That's like saying she'd be choosing Naruto out of guilt and lies at the moment. That'd leave a bad taste in my mouth.
You: Like you arn't?
Me: well thats another story!
YOUR POINT?
Edited by Phantom_999, 15 October 2011 - 12:57 AM.
#5855
Posted 15 October 2011 - 12:54 AM
Me: Your too sensitive about NS!
You: Like you arn't?
Me: well thats another story!
Left Hand to the Future Pirate King
Vinsmoke "Black Leg" Sanji
#5856
Posted 15 October 2011 - 01:30 AM
Don't worry, Kishimoto made it clear that Sakura feelings of romantic love for Naruto was absolutely real. I just roll my eyes at people who insist on always portraying every single action of Sakura's in the most negative light they can possibly make up- no matter if Kishimoto himself goes to the trouble of outright refuting that image in interviews and in the manga itself.
When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono
Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009
#5857
Posted 15 October 2011 - 01:38 AM
Ciardha, you always manage to lift my spirits when it comes to NS, with your long posts
It makes a lot of sense, too.

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#5858
Posted 15 October 2011 - 02:24 AM
If you want to think of the positives of the confession, think about how Sakura was trying to protect Naruto. She wanted to keep him safe, which was the entire reason she went to see him first. She wasn't ready to confess or anything, but she was definitely thinking about Naruto. The words she said about how Naruto had grown were definitely true. He is a very important person to her now, and she acknowledges it out right. Sakura can't get over Sasuke until he is redeemed. Until then she is basically stuck in limbo with her feelings. Growing closer to Naruto, yet her old ties towards Sasuke are very much a part of her.
I had always thought that time was what Sakura needed, but I see it differently now. She probably doesn't reflect on the reason for her feelings because she is always working towards getting Sasuke back. Those feelings are probably what help push her. Remember, she also really wants to be strong for Naruto. The best way for her to be that strong is for her to harbor strong feelings for Sasuke. She has probably been relying on those feelings for her own determination to keep going forward. At some point though, she will have to realize she doesn't need that old love to be strong; she has the potential deep down to be strong on her own.
Who knows when we will get something. Sakura is getting very little focus, which is making me pretty annoyed. When every other character gets at least one fight, sometimes multiple fights, before Sakura get's much of anything...I can't say Kishi is being very fair.
Hm not really. Going to relax for the most part! Maybe I will finish this fic I started. I haven't written NS for a long time o.O;;
#5859
Posted 15 October 2011 - 02:50 AM
I had always thought that time was what Sakura needed, but I see it differently now. She probably doesn't reflect on the reason for her feelings because she is always working towards getting Sasuke back. Those feelings are probably what help push her. Remember, she also really wants to be strong for Naruto. The best way for her to be that strong is for her to harbor strong feelings for Sasuke. She has probably been relying on those feelings for her own determination to keep going forward. At some point though, she will have to realize she doesn't need that old love to be strong; she has the potential deep down to be strong on her own.
Who knows when we will get something. Sakura is getting very little focus, which is making me pretty annoyed. When every other character gets at least one fight, sometimes multiple fights, before Sakura get's much of anything...I can't say Kishi is being very fair.
Hm not really. Going to relax for the most part! Maybe I will finish this fic I started. I haven't written NS for a long time o.O;;
Alright thanks guys
Edited by Phantom_999, 15 October 2011 - 02:51 AM.
#5860
Posted 15 October 2011 - 03:02 AM
Well, I think NH is kinda come to a closure, but it could always come back, or maybe I'm wrong completely!
I just think NH has done all it can do...
Left Hand to the Future Pirate King
Vinsmoke "Black Leg" Sanji
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