19964 replies to this topic

[CloudMountainJuror]

Positioning can be important. Remember that one panel of Naruto envisioning the K-11 in his head and how they were positioned, specifically Sakura and Hinata? That's one that matters because it's all mental.

This, though, isn't mental. So the importance level drops.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Positioning can be important. Remember that one panel of Naruto envisioning the K-11 in his head and how they were positioned, specifically Sakura and Hinata? That's one that matters because it's all mental.

This, though, isn't mental. So the importance level drops.

Well, when you put it that way, I guess that can be important. That and the thought of them. Not just talking about the five people he cares about the most. I recalled that Naruto places Sakura higher priority than others mentally, including that part when he sensed chakra from the war. In the end, it's up to Kishi saying. I do think him thinking about her and contacting means the most.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 05 December 2012 - 06:45 PM.

[tricksie]

Position is terribly important, for the reasons cupcakey said, and then some!

First, it isn't an aribtrary decision. The artist (whether it's Kishi or one of his underlings) doesn't have a canister of ninja illustrations that he just sprinkles over the page like cupcake sprinkles, not caring where any of them land.

Whoever illustrated it chose where to put the characters. And in choosing, that person makes decisions about who has prominence, who is important, and who gets stuck behind the text blurb. The illustrator will also know what's coming in the plot, so they will make sure to put people of importance in key places.... Or characters who have a great deal of popularity in highly visible place to keep those fans purchasing the manga.

Secondly, this is a storytelling medium which communicates on two levels: Illustration first, dialogue second. Especially one with such a wildly divergent international fan-base. Kishimoto can communicate without language barriers in his illustrations.

So if he wants to keep the shipping wars floating on the surface without directly mentioning them, then *bang* pop Hinata into the picture right behind Naruto. Twos pointed together, hands clasped, looking very worried and Hinata-like, as if she were a child who just wandered onto the battlefield, not a trained soldier, thus illiciting sympathy from her supporters and strengthening their belief that Naruto is her personal savior.... Message delivered!

Sure there are things in the manga that are minor details, probably thrown in without much thought (although there is still some), but that does not apply to the positioning of the main characters and especially to the two, Sakura and Hinata, who drive entire fanbases. The positioning of Hinata keeps those fans going and interested in the manga. That absolutely was not an oversight, but a specific decision to subtly reinforce a pairing without having to include it in the plot. Each time she is at a place of prominence that's what's going on. Why? Because she has no other use in the plot otherwise. Her job is to keep the suspense of Naruto's love life going. And as good illustrators, they know that and look for ways to fan those flames.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Position is terribly important, for the reasons cupcakey said, and then some!

First, it isn't an aribtrary decision. The artist (whether it's Kishi or one of his underlings) doesn't have a canister of ninja illustrations that he just sprinkles over the page like cupcake sprinkles, not caring where any of them land.

Whoever illustrated it chose where to put the characters. And in choosing, that person makes decisions about who has prominence, who is important, and who gets stuck behind the text blurb. The illustrator will also know what's coming in the plot, so they will make sure to put people of importance in key places.... Or characters who have a great deal of popularity in highly visible place to keep those fans purchasing the manga.

Secondly, this is a storytelling medium which communicates on two levels: Illustration first, dialogue second. Especially one with such a wildly divergent international fan-base. Kishimoto can communicate without language barriers in his illustrations.

So if he wants to keep the shipping wars floating on the surface without directly mentioning them, then *bang* pop Hinata into the picture right behind Naruto. Twos pointed together, hands clasped, looking very worried and Hinata-like, as if she were a child who just wandered onto the battlefield, not a trained soldier, thus illiciting sympathy from her supporters and strengthening their belief that Naruto is her personal savior.... Message delivered!

Sure there are things in the manga that are minor details, probably thrown in without much thought (although there is still some), but that does not apply to the positioning of the main characters and especially to the two, Sakura and Hinata, who drive entire fanbases. The positioning of Hinata keeps those fans going and interested in the manga. That absolutely was not an oversight, but a specific decision to subtly reinforce a pairing without having to include it in the plot. Each time she is at a place of prominence that's what's going on. Why? Because she has no other use in the plot otherwise. Her job is to keep the suspense of Naruto's love life going. And as good illustrators, they know that and look for ways to fan those flames.

Positioning is useless because what matter is not the position but where the focus is, when naruto thought about his everyone showed up and didnt matter if a ou b was the second or the third what matters is the first one is the one who is receiving a focus or is on a major light, which on the case was sakura.
When sasuke thought about his friends didnt matter who showed second third or fourth, what matters is that it showed naruto with a focus or "in a light" he received a focus, it was not a matter of positioning after all.
In the previous chapter 611 and this 612 does nto matter if hinata was right behind naruto because she did not received a focus she wasnt in a light, her focus was the same of kiba, akamaru,ino,sai,kakashi,sakura, everyone that was a friend of naruto was there, and that image was to show that naruto was not alone.
You speak of hinata and the fact that she was right behind naruto and you call this a "pairing fanservice" and what about ino we are seeing some NaruIno she is right on naruto's left side.
They were there because they arrived first and that's all.
About the message hinata is transmitting the same message of a shy girl even if she wasnt behind naruto the message would be the same.
Positioning does not matter is not determinant.
That particular image was not supposed to show who's more important.
( in this image the focus was on naruto)

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 December 2012 - 08:37 PM.

[PhenixElite]

Position is terribly important, for the reasons cupcakey said, and then some!

First, it isn't an aribtrary decision. The artist (whether it's Kishi or one of his underlings) doesn't have a canister of ninja illustrations that he just sprinkles over the page like cupcake sprinkles, not caring where any of them land.

Whoever illustrated it chose where to put the characters. And in choosing, that person makes decisions about who has prominence, who is important, and who gets stuck behind the text blurb. The illustrator will also know what's coming in the plot, so they will make sure to put people of importance in key places.... Or characters who have a great deal of popularity in highly visible place to keep those fans purchasing the manga.

Secondly, this is a storytelling medium which communicates on two levels: Illustration first, dialogue second. Especially one with such a wildly divergent international fan-base. Kishimoto can communicate without language barriers in his illustrations.

So if he wants to keep the shipping wars floating on the surface without directly mentioning them, then *bang* pop Hinata into the picture right behind Naruto. Twos pointed together, hands clasped, looking very worried and Hinata-like, as if she were a child who just wandered onto the battlefield, not a trained soldier, thus illiciting sympathy from her supporters and strengthening their belief that Naruto is her personal savior.... Message delivered!

Sure there are things in the manga that are minor details, probably thrown in without much thought (although there is still some), but that does not apply to the positioning of the main characters and especially to the two, Sakura and Hinata, who drive entire fanbases. The positioning of Hinata keeps those fans going and interested in the manga. That absolutely was not an oversight, but a specific decision to subtly reinforce a pairing without having to include it in the plot. Each time she is at a place of prominence that's what's going on. Why? Because she has no other use in the plot otherwise. Her job is to keep the suspense of Naruto's love life going. And as good illustrators, they know that and look for ways to fan those flames.

I agree with some of the placements, like the placement of the main charcter in the front of course but i stil think the rest of the k11 is just thrown i there without any reason. If that what you said would be the case why then have akamaru and kiba standing next to naruto, also ino is there. My opinion is, that this picture shows nothing about any special role during the fight or something like that.

[tricksie]

I agree with some of the placements, like the placement of the main charcter in the front of course but i stil think the rest of the k11 is just thrown i there without any reason. If that what you said would be the case why then have akamaru and kiba standing next to naruto, also ino is there. My opinion is, that this picture shows nothing about any special role during the fight or something like that.

I'm not looking at the image as a grocery list of importance. Just that when someone like Hinata crops up in a place of importance, you can bet it was an intentional decision.

Remember, the illustrators are privy to information that we are not. The coming chapters may be quite Sakura-centric. So placing Hinata in a positiong of importance next to Naruto might be like throwing a bone to her fanbase.

In fact, this is what I thought when I saw the pic, then they mentioned the Medic team was going to be deeply involved with Naruto's fight. That Hinata was drawn prominently so the audience wouldn't forget about her as being dutifully supporting of Naruto. Because at this point in the manga, they aren't showing any Sakura development without including Hinata somehow. So I figured Hinata's presence was to balance out some future panel-time of Sakura's.

Again, I don't think the illustrators are agonizing over every character detail. But the ones who drive a fan-base — Sakura and most importantly, Hinata — are going to get extra consideration when they are placed in a picture.

[PhenixElite]

I'm not looking at the image as a grocery list of importance. Just that when someone like Hinata crops up in a place of importance, you can bet it was an intentional decision.

Remember, the illustrators are privy to information that we are not. The coming chapters may be quite Sakura-centric. So placing Hinata in a positiong of importance next to Naruto might be like throwing a bone to her fanbase.

In fact, this is what I thought when I saw the pic, then they mentioned the Medic team was going to be deeply involved with Naruto's fight. That Hinata was drawn prominently so the audience wouldn't forget about her as being dutifully supporting of Naruto. Because at this point in the manga, they aren't showing any Sakura development without including Hinata somehow. So I figured Hinata's presence was to balance out some future panel-time of Sakura's.

Again, I don't think the illustrators are agonizing over every character detail. But the ones who drive a fan-base — Sakura and most importantly, Hinata — are going to get extra consideration when they are placed in a picture.

Well in this case i agree.

[Cupcake-chan]

Position is terribly important, for the reasons cupcakey said, and then some!

First, it isn't an aribtrary decision. The artist (whether it's Kishi or one of his underlings) doesn't have a canister of ninja illustrations that he just sprinkles over the page like cupcake sprinkles, not caring where any of them land.

Whoever illustrated it chose where to put the characters. And in choosing, that person makes decisions about who has prominence, who is important, and who gets stuck behind the text blurb. The illustrator will also know what's coming in the plot, so they will make sure to put people of importance in key places.... Or characters who have a great deal of popularity in highly visible place to keep those fans purchasing the manga.

Secondly, this is a storytelling medium which communicates on two levels: Illustration first, dialogue second. Especially one with such a wildly divergent international fan-base. Kishimoto can communicate without language barriers in his illustrations.

So if he wants to keep the shipping wars floating on the surface without directly mentioning them, then *bang* pop Hinata into the picture right behind Naruto. Twos pointed together, hands clasped, looking very worried and Hinata-like, as if she were a child who just wandered onto the battlefield, not a trained soldier, thus illiciting sympathy from her supporters and strengthening their belief that Naruto is her personal savior.... Message delivered!

Sure there are things in the manga that are minor details, probably thrown in without much thought (although there is still some), but that does not apply to the positioning of the main characters and especially to the two, Sakura and Hinata, who drive entire fanbases. The positioning of Hinata keeps those fans going and interested in the manga. That absolutely was not an oversight, but a specific decision to subtly reinforce a pairing without having to include it in the plot. Each time she is at a place of prominence that's what's going on. Why? Because she has no other use in the plot otherwise. Her job is to keep the suspense of Naruto's love life going. And as good illustrators, they know that and look for ways to fan those flames.

Thanks you!

Positioning is useless because what matter is not the position but where the focus is, when naruto thought about his everyone showed up and didnt matter if a ou b was the second or the third what matters is the first one is the one who is receiving a focus or is on a major light, which on the case was sakura.
When sasuke thought about his friends didnt matter who showed second third or fourth, what matters is that it showed naruto with a focus or "in a light" he received a focus, it was not a matter of positioning after all.
In the previous chapter 611 and this 612 does nto matter if hinata was right behind naruto because she did not received a focus she wasnt in a light, her focus was the same of kiba, akamaru,ino,sai,kakashi,sakura, everyone that was a friend of naruto was there, and that image was to show that naruto was not alone.
You speak of hinata and the fact that she was right behind naruto and you call this a "pairing fanservice" and what about ino we are seeing some NaruIno she is right on naruto's left side.
They were there because they arrived first and that's all.
About the message hinata is transmitting the same message of a shy girl even if she wasnt behind naruto the message would be the same.
Positioning does not matter is not determinant.
That particular image was not supposed to show who's more important.
( in this image the focus was on naruto)

This isn't about whither or not Naruto cares who is standing closer to him, it's Kishi's decision (the author and artist of the manga, may I remind you) to place the character's where they're placed in the panel. It might be subtle, but as tricksie mentioned, it delivered a message. The only reason I mentioned anything is because, contrary to popular belief, it does matter. The things Kishi does are carefully thought out and planned before put onto paper, even if it means giving a "bone" to a particular fanbase.

Edited by Cupcake-chan, 05 December 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

This isn't about whither or not Naruto cares who is standing closer to him, it's Kishi's decision (the author and artist of the manga, may I remind you) to place the character's where they're placed in the panel. It might be subtle, but as tricksie mentioned, it delivered a message. The only reason I mentioned anything is because, contrary to popular belief, it does matter. The things Kishi does are carefully thought out and planned before put onto paper, even if it means giving a "bone" to a particular fanbase.

What delivers a message is not where the character is but the focus if he receive it or not, sakura can be on the top of a mountain but if she receives a focus so the message is delivered.

positioning and focus are different things.

and saying that just because she's right behind naruto is like a bone being throw to the fanbase, sai is right behind naruto too, and moreover the focus sai received is the same as hinata ino and many other characters.
counting this like a fanservice is a joke.
"the message" is just one naruto is not alone.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 December 2012 - 10:56 PM.

[luffyq1]

Naruto & Obito similarities were so obviously shoved down our throats that there was no way of ignoring it, and now after much discussion Kishi finally confirms it. The similarities between Sakura & Kushina will be no different once NS becomes canon. It's surprising that the NH fandom aren't scared that the Naruto/Obito parallel was confirmed, what makes them think the same thing won't happen in regards to NS when it becomes official?

Jira/Tsu/Oro
Naru/Saku/Sasu
Obi/Rin/Kak
Yahi/Kon/Nag
Mina/Kushi
Naru/Saku

Kishi luv them parallels

Edited by luffyq1, 06 December 2012 - 02:22 AM.

[Branden]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the reason why we are getting more NaruHina stuff is because Kishi realized how well we all understood NaruSaku and wanted us to feel doubts that way when NaruSaku finally becomes cannon it's a huge surprise and welcome relief rather then a "bout damn time" moment? Run on sentence anyone?

[luffyq1]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the reason why we are getting more NaruHina stuff is because Kishi realized how well we all understood NaruSaku and wanted us to feel doubts that way when NaruSaku finally becomes cannon it's a huge surprise and welcome relief rather then a "bout damn time" moment? Run on sentence anyone?

I absolutely feel the same way you do. This is pretty much the Hinata confession all over again. NH fandom gets overconfident after a rare panel with Hinata & Naruto in it, and then shut them up in about 20+ chapters later with NS closing. This pattern is actually a re-occuring thing yet the NH fandom fail to detect it. Hell, even people who don't even ship can see this pattern. It's been happening since the chunin exams.

1.Hinata attemtps to give Naruto her cheat sheet but Naruto rejects it. About 2 or 3 chapters later Sakura was about to quit the test so Naruto's dream of becoming Hokage won't get crushed.

2. Hinata gives Naruto medicine, he uses it and then proceeds to offer it to Sakura.

3. The blood oath to defeat Neji. Later, Naruto fighting Gaara to save Sakura, and literally crawling using his head and then competely stops and smiles when he hears that Sakura is safe.

It starts with NH but ends with NS.

Edited by luffyq1, 06 December 2012 - 02:41 AM.

[swagosaurus]

I swear Kishi has a fetish for parallels. But sometimes I wonder...is it just coincidence?

[kirabook]

I'm sure every artist here or even practicing artists know that you don't just draw a group of characters in random places without much thought. In Kishi's case it might be different because he has to work so fast and not much thought is put into where he places his characters, but he is still an artists and he places people in certain places for certain reasons.

In this situation, I believe they are just positioned how they arrived and they haven't really moved from their position of arrival. If this chapter is picking up only seconds after the last one ended, it would be strange for them to suddenly be in all different places (even for ninja). However, Kishi could have easily made her land more far away and have Kakashi right behind Naruto with Sakura healing him, but he did not.

The manga isn't finished yet guys, some authors do wrap up the romance farther away from the ending, but I've noticed most manga doesn't wrap up the romance until near the very end. Everything before that is well planned drama, blocking, and build up. Kishi is not dumb, he has to know how huge romance has become among the fans. Wrapping up the romance in favor of one or the other (pairings that is) could cause a massive loss of interest, from both sides. (I've seen many people here who apparently only care about pairings in Naruto for the purpose of rubbing it in other peoples faces :/) He's going to hold off on a romantic resolution as long as he can.

While he stalls for a resolution, he will try to keep the water as murky as possible, even throw in a few twists and turns, yet still leave a pretty straight forward and obvious answer in the end. (Minato being Naruto's father, Obito being Tobi). I believe NS fits in this murky water scenario just like the other 2 examples I listed. Twice now has Kishi unfolded big secrets/plot points like this, it's not unbelievable that it would happen a third time.

Lately, while I'll never stop believing in NS, I've been trying to see the pairings from other fans point of view.

---

Random SS opinions -Warning, rambles- --Click here to view--

First I start with SS. When I first started Naruto, I was in middle school, pairings was the last thing on my mind. But one thing is for sure, I never liked Sakura's crush on Sasuke. He was obviously not interested. One scene that SS shippers seem to like a lot is when Sasuke wakes in the Forest of Death with the curse mark and destroys that guys arms.

They see that as a romantic gesture. I found it pretty sick, and when I was in middle school (and still to this day) I have never seen that moment as romantic. Sasuke seemed deranged and loaded with juice, ready to tear at anything. That guy was the closet target and Sasuke had an excuse to hurt him. It reminds me of other books/movies where there's this crazy guy who seems like he's saving the girl at first, but the scene gets very gruesome and disturbing and even when the damsel in distress begs him to stop, there's the "What? I'm doing this for you." response that creeps me out. That's exactly what that scene was like to me.

But even then, back before Sasuke left a defeated Naruto at the Valley, I thought Sasuke would finally take a turn for the better and follow Kakashi advice by allowing himself to lean on his friends and trust in them. I only started to hate Sasuke when he started acting like a jealous punk now that Naruto was finally getting somewhere in the world when all Naruto wanted was to be his equal.

As for Sakura's confession to him to make him stay, I don't know why, but when I first read it, I felt nothing for either of them. The scene was supposed to be emotional, but I felt much more emotion when Sakura told Naruto what happened and Naruto promised to bring him back. It seems like any scene that involves feelings other than feelings related to angst are deadened by Sasuke's presence.

Ah, I should stop rambling. To make a long story short, I don't get why people still support SS after what has happened at the Kage Summit. I mean, forget what he tried to do to Sakura. He vowed to kill Naruto and the entire leaf village on a whim. He tried to kill the Kage's and hurt innocent people. He's not worthy of Sakura. Even if he changes for the better, Sakura does not deserve to be with such a terrible guy.

---

Random NH opinions -warning, rambles- --Click here to view--

As for NH, I guess this pairing has less angst, but it also has less everything else. Back during the chuunin exams, I thought Hinata was very weird and so pessimistic. Even as Naruto succeeded, she continued to call him a proud failure. Way to root for the hero!

Also, I don't like the "She's always been there for him." She hasn't. She is the equivalent of someone walking by the same homeless person on the end of the street every day and never even acknowledging his presence IN his presence, but from a distance you pity them and hope they manage to get off the streets and have a good life.

Many NH fans ignore this point, but in the few NH fanfictions I accidentally end up reading before realizing it's a NH fic (seriously, I would love if some authors state the pairing before I start reading =_=) they always have Hinata actually talking to Naruto when he was young and actually being there for him. NH fans know what being there for him means and she was not there for him in canon whatsoever.

Sure, maybe her undying love is.... admirable for some people, but she is just not THERE. She's not in Naruto's life and she seems content with just watching him from a window. (Maybe she changed her mind with that holding his hand thing IN THE MIDDLE OF WAR)

To sum it up, NH just doesn't have the development. Kishi could have easily built up something to this point, look how much NS has right now and Hinata had a lot of potential to be a true romantic interest back earlier in the manga if Kishi decided to do so.

And just to finish off this rant, in general, I haven't seen it here of course, but I get really tired of some people complaining that fans using parallels as an explanation is weak sauce. Parallels like how Naruto and Hinata's situation could be a random romance like Goku and Chichi is weak sauce. (By that I mean most of the build up was off screen) But if Kishi blatantly uses parallels between his characters every chance he gets, why would you try to argue against it? The mangaka is not on your side, the source material completely contradicts all the arguments you make. I just don't get why some people are even in this fandom if they don't seem to care for what's actually IN the manga. Are the too deep into fanfiction? I'm very deep into fanfiction myself (not fanfiction with pairings) but that has always remained a separate entity from canon facts.

There is nothing wrong with parallels if the author is the one utilizing said parallels!

[redragon88]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the reason why we are getting more NaruHina stuff is because Kishi realized how well we all understood NaruSaku and wanted us to feel doubts that way when NaruSaku finally becomes cannon it's a huge surprise and welcome relief rather then a "bout damn time" moment? Run on sentence anyone?

It's the whole Tobito issue all over again.

At the beginning of Part 2 right after Tobi was introduced many already theorized he was Obito because of his goofy nature and one-eyed mask that coincided with the eye he had left. Many people thought that the point of making Kakashi Gaiden was for the sake of introducing Obito as the soon to be Tobi, and they were right. Then in the middle of the story we get the curve ball of him claiming he was Madara and many completely took it for granted. It was only a few who still insisted that something was not right with that statement, but then we get even more background on Tobi that makes it seem less likely for him to be Obito and that further changed the minds of even more people.

After that most were completely convinced that at the very least he wasn't Obito. Then we see the actual Madara get revived that the theories of who Tobi really was started coming out again and the support for him actually being Obtio started to resurface, but of course since many believed there would be huge inconsistencies with the story if that was the case laughed off the claim and told those who believed it that they were fooling themselves. Then come the hints from Tobi himself (telling Kakashi that he talked too much and lived a life of regret, and explaining that he got his eye during the third great ninja war).

But even then people still doubted it was actually Obito and tried to come up with one excuse after another. Then comes 599 and the rest is history. Now the people that vehemently disagreed can only eat their words and cope by calling Kishi a bad writer. But, to be honest, even if the reveal wasn't completely shocking everyone has to admit that Kishi did a great job at misleading everyone during the middle of the story into thinking that there was no chance of Tobi being Obito.

Many people are annoyed that Tobi being Obito was pretty obvious, but the more I think about it the more I believe that Kishi intentionally wanted to gradually make the reveal by giving hints here and there of the possibility. It seems Kishi purposely wanted people to get accustomed to it and not make the reveal come out of nowhere. People can claim that Obito was too obvious but before the war arc started there was nearly no one who believed it would happen. So I think Kishi was completely deliberate in all of these actions.

I think it's the same thing with NaruSaku. During a good portion of part 2 we get the feeling that Sakura is slowly building up an affection for Naruto that will culminate in her confessing her feelings for him, but then we get a curve ball in the shape of the Summit arc. Now it's reestablished that Sakura still has feelings for Sasuke, therefore casting doubt on many about the possibility of her ever loving Naruto. Then during Kushina's arc we have a little hope restored thanks to her similarities to Sakura and how one of Kushina's dying wishes was for Naruto to find a girl like her. But even then we still have our doubts, and those are further intensified thanks to Sakura thinking about Sakura after getting the love letter. And while all of that happens there's also the Hinata moments which include: her confession, her thinking about Naruto (in the same chapter in which Sakura thinks of Sasuke), the whole exchange of the eyes, her wanting to hold his hand after the war and getting some spotlight when she arrives with the army.

Now we are in the position in which even though we think it should be obvious that Naruto and Sakura are meant to be together because of their previous development, the fact remains that there are moments that seem to contradict that possibility, therefore making us unsure as to what will happen. It's the same with Tobi, even though it should've seem obvious that he was actually Obito, the way Kishi developed his background into appearing he was actually Madara created doubts on that possibility being true.

One could argue that the war arc served for the sake of getting people accustomed to the possibility of NaruHina and SasuSaku, but I believe that when it comes to romance we are still in the doubts stage. Besides, if anything the hints should've actually come from the boys if they were meant to be foreshadowing, but once again that is not the case. The fact is that since the boys have never shown any signs of reciprocation to the girls feelings it makes it even less likely that this is the case. If the misdirection was done for the sake of NH and SS then the boys should've shown signs of returning the girls feelings, then make them change their minds, and later once again show care. But they haven't even gotten into the first stage. Sakura, on the contrary seems more likely for this since she's evidently in the second stage of that process and now only needs to once again show her romantic care.

With the Tobito theory:
1) First people think Obito is Tobi because of the subtle hints (Kakashi Gaiden, Tobi's goofiness and one eyed-mask)
2) Then have doubts thanks to the contradicting background (his whole claim of being Madara)
3) Later begin to wonder again thanks to slight clues here and there (seeming to know Kakashi and saying he obtained his eye during the Third Ninja War)
4) Then it's revealed that people where right all along (chapter 599)

With NaruSaku:
1) First have people think it will happen thanks to the development and subtle hints (Sakura's improved view of Naruto and his selfless love)
2) Then cast doubts thanks to contradicting feelings (reconfirmation of Sakura's feelings for Sasuke during the Summit arc, her thinking of Sasuke with the love letter, and all of those moments with Hinata when it comes to Naruto)
3) Later begin to wonder again with slight clues (Kushina's similarities, Sakura wanting to fight together with Naruto, and more to come soon)
4) Then it's revealed people were right all along (chapter TBA)

In my point of view it seems even though Kishi wants to make something look obvious he still likes to cast some doubts so that there's intrigue as the story develops. You could say the same with Minato being Naruto's dad. Even though it was the most obvious reveal of them all, Kishi still liked to leave it as implied and yet not confirmed it until much later in the story for the sake of getting people to wonder if he truly was Naruto's father or not.

[Codus N]

With the Tobito theory:
1) First people think Obito is Tobi because of the subtle hints (Kakashi Gaiden, Tobi's goofiness and one eyed-mask)
2) Then have doubts thanks to the contradicting background (his whole claim of being Madara)
3) Later begin to wonder again thanks to slight clues here and there (seeming to know Kakashi and saying he obtained his eye during the Third Ninja War)
4) Then it's revealed that people where right all along (chapter 599)

With NaruSaku:
1) First have people think it will happen thanks to the development and subtle hints (Sakura's improved view of Naruto and his selfless love)
2) Then cast doubts thanks to contradicting feelings (reconfirmation of Sakura's feelings for Sasuke during the Summit arc, her thinking of Sasuke with the love letter, and all of those moments with Hinata when it comes to Naruto)
3) Later begin to wonder again with slight clues (Kushina's similarities, Sakura wanting to fight together with Naruto, and more to come soon)
4) Then it's revealed people were right all along (chapter TBA)

In my point of view it seems even though Kishi wants to make something look obvious he still likes to cast some doubts so that there's intrigue as the story develops. You could say the same with Minato being Naruto's dad. Even though it was the most obvious reveal of them all, Kishi still liked to leave it as implied and yet not confirmed it until much later in the story for the sake of getting people to wonder if he truly was Naruto's father or not.

You might wanna add one more thing to the Tobito stuff: his jutsu. Ever since I saw Tobi's space-time ability, I was definitely sure it had to be Obito because the mechanics of the jutsu seemed to be so similar to Kakashi's, which can't be a coincidence. I was utterly appalled at just how some fans were completely blind about it.

[Hiraishin]

I always love reading your guys' posts. They're entertaining and interesting and go by the facts of the manga, especially compared to the majority of NaruHina and SasuSaku arguments (seriously, reading this thread and then reading their arguments just makes me laugh). Keep it up, you lovely people. <3

And just to finish off this rant, in general, I haven't seen it here of course, but I get really tired of some people complaining that fans using parallels as an explanation is weak sauce. Parallels like how Naruto and Hinata's situation could be a random romance like Goku and Chichi is weak sauce. (By that I mean most of the build up was off screen) But if Kishi blatantly uses parallels between his characters every chance he gets, why would you try to argue against it? The mangaka is not on your side, the source material completely contradicts all the arguments you make. I just don't get why some people are even in this fandom if they don't seem to care for what's actually IN the manga. Are the too deep into fanfiction? I'm very deep into fanfiction myself (not fanfiction with pairings) but that has always remained a separate entity from canon facts.

There is nothing wrong with parallels if the author is the one utilizing said parallels!

YES. OH MY GOD, YES. Especially the bolded. People bash NS/its fans simply because we point out parallels, but it's not our fault Kishi makes it so blatantly obvious. Besides, it's not like there's only romance parallels - there's the parallels with Hashirama/Naruto and Madara/Sasuke and Obito/Naruto. If they're not simply denying the parallels (which is silly in its own right), and they really don't see them, then I'm seriously worried about their reading comprehension (which I already was, because so many of them think the manga will end with NH and/or SS).

I also completely agree with your opinions on NH and SS. Excellent post.

Add to that the fact that Sakura has never smiled at anyone else like that in the entire series, not even Sasuke, and it adds even more meaning <3

Plus the fun fact that Naruto, likewise, has given Sakura expressions that he's never given anyone else (the smitten expression he has in 246 watching Sakura punch the ground during the second bell test comes to mind most prominently)

So true. <3 I don't know how people can claim that Naruto doesn't love her (and that Sakura has shown no non-platonic/romantic feelings for him).

There were a few things I wanted to bring up, but I don't have time right now, so I'll wait until later~

Edited by mydearbeloved, 06 December 2012 - 06:52 AM.

[neoshadow]

It's the whole Tobito issue all over again.

With the Tobito theory:
1) First people think Obito is Tobi because of the subtle hints (Kakashi Gaiden, Tobi's goofiness and one eyed-mask)
2) Then have doubts thanks to the contradicting background (his whole claim of being Madara)
3) Later begin to wonder again thanks to slight clues here and there (seeming to know Kakashi and saying he obtained his eye during the Third Ninja War)
4) Then it's revealed that people where right all along (chapter 599)

With NaruSaku:
1) First have people think it will happen thanks to the development and subtle hints (Sakura's improved view of Naruto and his selfless love)
2) Then cast doubts thanks to contradicting feelings (reconfirmation of Sakura's feelings for Sasuke during the Summit arc, her thinking of Sasuke with the love letter, and all of those moments with Hinata when it comes to Naruto)
3) Later begin to wonder again with slight clues (Kushina's similarities, Sakura wanting to fight together with Naruto, and more to come soon)
4) Then it's revealed people were right all along (chapter TBA)

Well said, you're exactly right. Anyone can create a plot twist, Shino could be stabbed in the back by Neji next chapter(don't ask, it was just the first thing to pop in my head) and it would serve its function, but building suspense is a much more difficult thing to do yet much more rewarding and I think that's what Kishi is doing, creating bumps along the road to create doubt before resolving everything in the way it was intended.

Sometimes though I do wonder if Tobito was planned to progress the way it did and if Madara was ever intended, it would be something I'd love to ask Kishi once the manga is finished. Although as you said It seemed obvious I do wonder if Kishi anticipated everyone theorizing that Tobi was Obito from his introduction and once that happened he was caught unaware and not wanting his chief villain to be spoiled so early planted the seeds of doubt through the whole Tobi is Madara phase and then introduced Madara to be able to continue the Tobi is Obito plan. I mean I doubt it considering Madara was hinted at, at the end of Part 1 but still I'd love to know.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the reason why we are getting more NaruHina stuff is because Kishi realized how well we all understood NaruSaku and wanted us to feel doubts that way when NaruSaku finally becomes cannon it's a huge surprise and welcome relief rather then a "bout damn time" moment? Run on sentence anyone?

what naruhina?

[Chucky-kun]

I feel like hinata has actually developed over the series and has come to admire naruto instead of having a crush on him. I think that's the key difference here, admiration and love are two similar yet completely different things.