1876 replies to this topic

[ciardha]

http://www.salon.com...16/white_house/

[RyrineaHaruno]

http://www.salon.com...16/white_house/

This is why we need more Democrats like Alan Grayson.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 17 December 2009 - 05:08 AM.

[Cloud]

Why is it that This is why we need more Democrats like Alan Grayson.

^Edited.

Because a Liberal like you can call them all the names you want, right?

No bashing on this thread. Thanks very much.

Plus if you haven't noticed kids surf this board as well? So the P word really isn't helpful.

[RyrineaHaruno]

^Edited.

Because a Liberal like you can call them all the names you want, right?

No bashing on this thread. Thanks very much.

Plus if you haven't noticed kids surf this board as well? So the P word really isn't helpful.

Sorry I need to leave my sailor mouth out the door..

[Sakura Blossoms]

Palin vs Schwarzenegger. Most Republican don't believe in climate change:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/269368

[RyrineaHaruno]

Palin vs Schwarzenegger. Most Republican don't believe in climate change:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/269368

Schwarznegger makes some great movies, but he is not that great of a Senator. He is I beleive Roland Reagan 2.0

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 17 December 2009 - 05:27 PM.

[Nate River]

Schwarznegger makes some great movies, but he is not that great of a Senator. He is I beleive Roland Reagan 2.0

Ronald Reagan?!

He's nothing close.

[Sakura Blossoms]

While I like that he is on the side of climate change, what did Californians really expect for their state and local economy, when they hired a movie star?

It was like Americans voting George Bush into office a second time. The first time you know they cheated by having Jeb Bush stealing away Floridian votes. The second time Americans who voted for him have no one to blame but themselves for the state that the country is in now, and the pointless wars costing thousands of lives.

[Nate River]

While I like that he is on the side of climate change, what did Californians really expect for their state and local economy, when they hired a movie star?

It was like Americans voting George Bush into office a second time. The first time you know they cheated by having Jeb Bush stealing away Floridian votes. The second time Americans who voted for him have no one to blame but themselves for the state that the country is in now, and the pointless wars costing thousands of lives.

Yeah, I totally regret missing out on John Kerry and Al Gore. And, it's too bad we can't go back in time and reinstate Sadaam Hussien. I'm sure the Iraqi's miss him.

No, I don't know. What specifically did Jeb do to "steal" away votes?

[RyrineaHaruno]

Ronald Reagan?!

He's nothing close.

To me he is another Ronald Reagan, since he was a movie star. That and Reagan kind of tanked our Economy, and Schwarznegger tanked California budget.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 17 December 2009 - 06:22 PM.

[Nate River]

To me he is another Ronald Reagan, since he was a movie star. That and Reagan kind of tanked our Economy, and Schwarznegger tanked California budget.

To use a common Barack Obama trope: Do you not know of the economy he inhereted from Jimmy Carter? You know, the years of stagflation and high unemployment? Second, if I recall, the economy came back and experienced significant growth and expansion, especially in his second term.

In Schawtzanegger's somewhat partial defense...that mess is as much the Democratic controlled General Assemplies fault as it is Arnold's. Arnold deserves more than plenty of blame for that (and a big reason, along with Climate change, why a lot of Republicans don't like him), but Democracts who control California's legislature are a big source of that problem as well.

[Nick Soapdish]

Yeah, I totally regret missing out on John Kerry. And, it's too bad we can't go back in time and reinstate Sadaam Hussien. I'm sure the Iraqi's miss him.

No, I don't know. What specifically did Jeb do to "steal" away votes?

Well, the person that he had running the election in the state was Dubya's Florida campaign manager.

But honestly, I think the biggest election problems were the butterfly ballots and that it should've been a complete recount which wasn't what Al was ever asking for. Neither of those are Jeb's fault.

To use a common Barack Obama trope: Do you not know of the economy he inhereted from Jimmy Carter? You know, the years of stagflation and high unemployment?

In Schawtzanegger's partial defense...that mess is as much the Democratic controlled General Assemplies fault as it is Arnold's. Arnold deserves more than plenty of blame for that (and a big reason, along with Climate change, why a lot of Republicans don't like him), but Democracts who control California's legislature are a big source of that problem as well.

The Democrats don't control the California legislature when it comes to budgetary matters. Anything having to do with the budget requires a supermajority (thanks to a constitutional amendment back in the 70s) so even a relatively small group can just put its foot down and hold the government hostage to its demands. Schwarzenegger has been alternately cussing out the Democrats and the Republicans in the legislature because neither was willing to give very much ground.

And it took Reagan until '83 to get unemployment under 10%. I'm sure that everybody will be just as patient with Obama.

Edited by Nick Soapdish, 17 December 2009 - 06:41 PM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Yeah, I totally regret missing out on John Kerry and Al Gore. And, it's too bad we can't go back in time and reinstate Sadaam Hussien. I'm sure the Iraqi's miss him.

No, I don't know. What specifically did Jeb do to "steal" away votes?

I'll take Al and Kerry over Bush any day. I know you don't like either of them, and that's your prerogative. But I'm almost 100% sure we would not be in the mess we are now if Bush had not become President.

Well, the person that he had running the election in the state was Dubya's Florida campaign manager.

But honestly, I think the biggest election problems were the butterfly ballots and that it should've been a complete recount which wasn't what Al was ever asking for. Neither of those are Jeb's fault.

Al Gore won. He won for all of half an hour. I still remember every news station here in Florida declaring him winner. Then out of nowhere Jeb comes on and 'announces' that we are all wrong, and that his 'brother' George Bush had actually won. Then the whole idiotic drama of the 'hanging chads' (which was just stupid and ridiculous) and recounts began.

The majority of Floridians are still plenty pissed about that whole mess, because all of that nonsense helped to make the state out to be the laughing stock to the entire nation. And we still haven't managed to live it down yet. They still make jokes about us because of that crap, and the fact that Bush messed the country up so much makes it even worse, because people still blame Florida for putting him into the White House.

You can disagree with me Nate all you want. Nothing will change your mind as nothing will change mine, so let's just agree to disagree. I am one of those angry Florida residents who has to put up with every news pundit, and all the comedy shows making Floridians out to be absolute fools every election season. I don't think you can truly understand how humiliated it makes us out here feel every four years.

[Nate River]

Well, the person that he had running the election in the state was Dubya's Florida campaign manager.

But honestly, I think the biggest election problems were the butterfly ballots and that it should've been a complete recount which wasn't what Al was ever asking for. Neither of those are Jeb's fault.

That's the problem. Even if that's the case, it's still nothing more than supposition and innuendo. It is one of those things that doesn't pass the smell test, but still what specifically was done to "steal votes." What Gore asked for was recount in a small group of counties that voted Democrat as those were the places where he was most likely to pick up votes. There were also issues with the military ballots, which tend to be more Republican.

I agree on the ballots, but if what Gore truly wanted was a complete and honest recount, the whole state should have been recounted, not only those counties most favorably to Gore, which is what he tried.

The problem they ultimately ran into was the source of Bush v. Gore II. The base of the holding is that elections laws dictated that the counting had to be done by a certain, and then, fast approaching deadline for certification of the vote. I forget if the law was statutory or constitutional. I want to say statutory, but I'd have to pull the case again. The Court agreed 7-2 that they did have to be done by that date. Two Justices in the majority (Souter being one, think Breyer is they other) thought they could finish in time, which turned into a 5-4 on whether to shut down the recount.

Supposedly, O'Connor was ticked during oral argument because the Florida Supreme Court had ignore the Court's order in Bush v. Gore I.

It's a battle I don't particularly like revisting because at this point it's moot. But I've found most people who complain about Bush v. Gore, haven't read the case and don't know everything that actually went on. I don't think either side comes out of that clean.

The Democrats don't control the California legislature when it comes to budgetary matters. Anything having to do with the budget requires a supermajority (thanks to a constitutional amendment back in the 70s) so even a relatively small group can just put its foot down and hold the government hostage to its demands. Schwarzenegger has been alternately cussing out the Democrats and the Republicans in the legislature because neither was willing to give very much ground.

And it took Reagan until '83 to get unemployment under 10%. I'm sure that everybody will be just as patient with Obama.

Were people really that patient during the Reagan years?

I don't think Reagan went unscathed in the Congressional elections of 1982. Bottom line for him is the same as for Obama. He's there four years. Whether people are patient or not, he's the President until 2012. If the ship still isn't righted, he'll pay for it.

EDIT:

You can disagree with me Nate all you want. Nothing will change your mind as nothing will change mine, so let's just agree to disagree. I am one of those angry Florida residents who has to put up with every news pundit, and all the comedy shows making Floridians out to be absolute fools every election season. I don't think you can truly understand how humiliated it makes us out here feel every four years.

Fair enough.

And you're right. There probably isn't much you can say. Most of the arguments you make I've heard before, and I'm sure you've heard many of mine and, here we are.

That, and as I said, it's moot issue.

I suppose I don't since we've never had that specific stereotype or been blamed for electing Bush. Though unless they're from the Valley or Austin, I can't imagine it bothering them very much However, Texans have been stereotypes by those people as ignorant fools for decades. Family Guy dedicated an entire show to the subject. When I younger, it might of bothered me a little, but as I got older, I asked myself, why I cared what a bunch of idiots thought of me or my state.

I'll take Al and Kerry over Bush any day. I know you don't like either of them, and that's your prerogative. But I'm almost 100% sure we would not be in the mess we are now if Bush had not become President.

I disagree, especially in regard to the financial crisis.

And I'd obviously take Bush over both of them. I don't at all regret voting for Bush in 2004. They're is alot he did, I didn't like, but there wasn't very much Kerry proposed that I'd ever support and nothing Gore currently proposes. I do, however, still regret voting for Gore in 2000.

[Nick Soapdish]

That's the problem. Even if that's the case, it's still nothing more than supposition and innuendo. It is one of those things that doesn't pass the smell test, but still what specifically was done to "steal votes." What Gore asked for was recount in a small group of counties that voted Democrat as those were the places where he was most likely to pick up votes. There were also issues with the military ballots, which tend to be more Republican.

No, it's more than just supposition and innuendo. It's a clear conflict of interest.

Whether she did anything to influence the outcome - either during the election or afterwards - is supposition and innuendo.

I agree on the ballots, but if what Gore truly wanted was a complete and honest recount, the whole state should have been recounted, not only those counties most favorably to Gore, which is what he tried.

Gore never said that that's what he wanted which is why I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for his loss.

Were people really that patient during the Reagan years?

I don't think Reagan went unscathed in the Congressional elections of 1982. Bottom line for him is the same as for Obama. He's there four years. Whether people are patient or not, he's the President until 2012. If the ship still isn't righted, he'll pay for it.

I don't remember. I was kinda young at the time.

But there has been vocal criticism on the news 24/7 since January over Obama's economic performance. Part of that simply couldn't have happened back in '81 because there wasn't 24/7 news coverage and part of it probably wouldn't have happened because of the nature of news coverage now that we have 24/7 coverage. I don't think that there were commentators as partisan as Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Beck or Olbermann back then and they certainly didn't have the same audience that those yahoos have now.

The Republicans picked up two seats in the Senate (adding to their majority) and lost 34 in the House (adding to the Democrats majority).

[Nate River]

No, it's more than just supposition and innuendo. It's a clear conflict of interest.

Whether she did anything to influence the outcome - either during the election or afterwards - is supposition and innuendo.

That's what I said and what I meant when I said it didn't pass the smell test.
And there were multiple screw us by multiple people that helped make that happen.

I don't remember. I was kinda young at the time.

But there has been vocal criticism on the news 24/7 since January over Obama's economic performance. Part of that simply couldn't have happened back in '81 because there wasn't 24/7 news coverage and part of it probably wouldn't have happened because of the nature of news coverage now that we have 24/7 coverage. I don't think that there were commentators as partisan as Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Beck or Olbermann back then and they certainly didn't have the same audience that those yahoos have now.

The Republicans picked up two seats in the Senate (adding to their majority) and lost 34 in the House (adding to the Democrats majority).

I was three at the time and I'm too lazy to do extensive research on the subject, since whether its fair or not, it is happening and he has to deal with it. The same will likely to any successor if Obama fails and the economy still stinks in 2012. It's the same with the filibuster. I know what's coming when Republicans take control in the future. So, they better brace themselves for it.

It's going to happen. Both sides have now done it, and neither wants to be the "loser" who lets up and lets the other guys through. At least not any times soon.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Shauna, please stop posting Politico as news.

Please don't tell me what to do. If you don't want to read/click the links then don't.

~~~

Edit: Acid Oceans: The evil twin of climate change:

http://news.yahoo.co...ate_blue_carbon

And don't worry Kodachi it's *not* Politico

Edited by Sakura Blossoms, 18 December 2009 - 03:59 PM.

[Nate River]

Around 90%. There is no attempt to silence any scientists. That is the thinking of one who believes as a rule scientists behave like Dr. Robotnik and Dr. Octopus, and don't have a good understanding of what the scientific process is like. First, scientists observe a phenomenon, and form a hypothesis to explain it. Then, they test that hypothesis. Whether or not it is proven, they then analyze the data and form a model to explain it. Then they try to destroy the model through various trials. That's right; DESTROY IT. If after several trials the model still holds, it is assumed to be correct, within the limits of statistical reasoning. "Scientists" who cherry pick results and claim to prove something are charlatans out for monetary gain. Scientists don't prove anything; they try to DISPROVE things.

When studying, scientists make a paper and submit it within the scientific literature. It is then peer-reviewed. Whether or not it agrees with most scientists on a certain subject has no bearing on whether or not it is thrown out. It simply must not contain any obvious mistakes and be well-written.




As Nick said, East Angeline is not the only authority on climate change. And all the major networks forgot an especially important tool in investing this "Climategate" crap: READING THE E-MAILS. While the scientists did indeed have a less than cordial discussion of skeptics, they did not hide anything. The so-called "trick" was a clever way of doing things, and it is commonly used throughout the scientific literature. Just go to any accredited science website, and you'll see that it is used in many fields as diverse as biology and physics. If trick really did mean deception, then all such scientific papers are admitting to you in their opening paragraph that their research is fradulent. Don't believe me? Let's look at the quote:

"I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the REAL TEMPS and hiding the decline."

If I'm trying to trick you, why would I say anything about adding in real temps? If there is a conspiracy going on, that would seem counter-productive, as I'm telling the people the truth. The decline referred to a divergance in tree-ring data. At first, temperature and tree-rings seemed to have a good corelation in the early days of climate research, but then the tree-rings behaved in a way they weren't supposed to. Since the recorded temperatures were indisputable, the tree-ring data had to be thrown out. Not to mention that many of the things the scientists were talking about were available in papers they've written. You don't believe the university? Why should I believe hackers who illegally stole private e-mails and most likely changed them to their liking? If they did fudge data, there's not likely much reward for doing so. Scientists generally do not make a lot money, and to my knowledge research grants are not for personal use. It's just funding to continue research, and if someone hid data in order to get more money to research something they know is not true...well, it would make me question their credentials.If I look down on skeptics, it's because they don't bother researching the science and dismiss evidence on global warming/climate change because it goes against their ideology or simply don't want to believe it. Europe is now mostly ruled by center-right governments, but if you insisted to them that AGW is a hoax, they would just stare at you in disbelief at how you are ignoring the data. Name one skeptic who's a scientist, and you'll see their papers are available to the public. If scientists found little to no evidence of global warming, they would say so, and that would be the end of it. I certainly would like to believe that the earth is not warming at a rapid rate, but too many scientists support this assertion for me to say otherwise.

From Factcheck.org

Although, I prefer this explanation.






No. One of many programs used to fund Medicare is in trouble, but there are others to finance it, and similar problems have occurred in the past and have been solved time and time again. If anything, the reason for the financial strain is because money that was supposed to be for medicare is used to pay for the War on Terror.


The reason most of the complaints center on Fox News is not just because of their obvious bias, but also how they behave with those who disagree with them. It is not uncommon for the hosts to threaten to cut off the mics of those who disagree with them, and go beyond insulting the democrats; they openly claim they are either communists or Nazis. The fact that of all the news networks they have the highest ratings is what led to MSNBC and CNN adopting similar structures to their programming.

And the media having a liberal bias is a myth; despite such a "liberal" media, Carter and Clinton sure had trouble getting elected (and it mostly depended upon the Republicans screwing up). And Ronald Regan didn't seem to have much trouble winning nearly every state, nor did the republicans seem to have much trouble retaking congress. There is most certainly no news or publication that is "the one", but again that just shows the need to look at more than one source, and if a large number of organizations are reporting on it, chances are it is true.



I would sure hope so, because that's not the majority of people in the country!


Shauna, please stop posting Politico as news. It's opinions from republicans who are upset they lost 2008, and have a distorted view of reality. You wanna know why they were the only one to report on Obama using a teleprompter too much and no one else did? Because the others knew that presidents from both parties to use flash cards, speech notes, and yes, teleprompters every time they make an important speech. It really miffed me last time when it claimed liberals were giving Obama a free pass for everything Bush did, but one just needs to see one episode of the Daily Show, Colbert Report, and Real Time with Bill Maher to find this isn't the case. One quote from Stephen Colbert stands out in my mind:
"I knew he would enact transformative policies in America...but who KNEW....that he would TRANSFORM...INTO BUSH?"

Others quotes from liberals making fun of/attacking Obama:
"He's the president, NOT YOUR BOYFRIEND"
"Please, he's the president, not some infallable chocolate jesus; that's Kanye West" Note: This was before the Taylor Swift incident.

I have fairly extensive response in mind, by as my personal title says, I'm on dispolucious vacation at the moment, so I'm not much in the mood to write an LAP on politics at the moment.

I'll try to write it after the holidays.

Just don't want you to think I don't have anything in mind.

[Strangelove]

Read on Volcanic Gas, and Mt Pinatubo...