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#561 Don-kun

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:18 PM

I have never been more convinced that some of you are simply addicted to drama.  Good grief.
 
Some -- okay, most -- of this fear, bad faith, hysteria, hand-wringing, melodramatics -- whatever you want to call it -- is based on assumptions you have made yourselves.  It reminds me of children who become convinced there is a monster under their bed at night.  It is an unfounded, erroneous fear that defies logic, but by recycling the fear in their minds -- over and over -- it becomes real.
 
Sigh.
 
Many of you are projecting your presumptions onto Kishimoto:  He's a sadistic troll.  He doesn't care about his story.  He doesn't care that he's making NS look bad compared to other ships.  He's regressing Sakura's character.  He's reckless.  Ad infinitum.  
 
The fact is, we don't know jack squat about Kishimoto or his motives.  But by applying logic -- which is underrated, by the way -- what we do know is that Kishimoto's reputation and livelihood are intertwined with this manga.  He has spent 15 years of his life on it.  It is likely to be the defining achievement of his career, and his legacy.  He admits that once it's over he owes his wife a honeymoon and more time with his children because he's been a workaholic who spends his evenings at the studio.
 
He doesn't care?  He's sadistic for the hell of it?  He's mindlessly messing around with YOUR pairing?
 
This past week, the majority of the discussion revolved around concerns that something was going to happen with SS.  The HORROR!!!  But as many calmer souls predicted (myself included), it was a non-event that Kishimoto glossed over.  It appears to have been nothing more than a brief moment of basic decency from Sasuke, wherein he expressed his gratitude to Sakura by choosing -- for once -- not to be an overtly nasty and condescending asshat.  He didn't thank her, but he didn't say anything crappy, either.  For Sasuke, that's a big-souled moment.
 
Of course it still failed Naruto's acid test of how he expects Sakura-chan to be treated; Obito too, for that matter.  And the only reason for Naruto's confrontational question to be included was to highlight that he's thinking of Sakura, knows Sasuke is a complete tool, and for Kishimoto to skewer anyone who thought Sasuke had changed significantly.
 
So you got what you wanted.  No SS details to mar the progress of NS, plus a moment of Naruto's concern for Sakura (and still calling her Sakura-chan, by the way).  Cool.  
 
But wait... No... now it's the OMFG!ColorCoverTRAVESTY!!!!1!1!!  Cue for more drama.  Sigh.
 
You know what I saw when I looked at the color cover?  I saw a hero in the lead, followed by his two sidekick friends who are equal in terms of his reliance on them for support of his quest for Good, followed by their sensei.  I saw Kishimoto summing up the basic plot of the story in a new, Wild West motif. 
 
What I did NOT see is a reason for fear, doubt, and angry denouncements that Kishimoto doesn't care about his story, about Sakura's development, or about NS.  Those are fan presumptions not based on fact.  Look underneath the underneath does not mean straining to see the monster under the bed.  Remember, the target audience for this story is younger boys; it's not going to require charts, maps, a degree in psychology, and encyclopedic knowledge on the history of Japan and ninja culture to understand it.
 
Kishimoto knows what he's doing with his characters and the pairings. He has a plan and he's working it.  There is absolutely no reason to react to every little thing as if it's some kind of conspiracy on his part to destroy your investment in NS.  Kishimoto has A LOT more invested in it than you do.
 
Just my opinion.

 Alway being one of the level headed user is being a while since I read so many stupudity and for nothing because 615 was worst than this plus is a freaking cover the manga will always be the way we want and much of these users need to stop being a drama Queen. This FC is really waek after all others are still tanding but anything is a drama story with NS. 

It's all good. You could edit your post if you want. I don't want to see support for Sakura-bashers around here.

I have never been more convinced that some of you are simply addicted to drama.  Good grief.
 
Some -- okay, most -- of this fear, bad faith, hysteria, hand-wringing, melodramatics -- whatever you want to call it -- is based on assumptions you have made yourselves.  It reminds me of children who become convinced there is a monster under their bed at night.  It is an unfounded, erroneous fear that defies logic, but by recycling the fear in their minds -- over and over -- it becomes real.
 
Sigh.
 
Many of you are projecting your presumptions onto Kishimoto:  He's a sadistic troll.  He doesn't care about his story.  He doesn't care that he's making NS look bad compared to other ships.  He's regressing Sakura's character.  He's reckless.  Ad infinitum.  
 
The fact is, we don't know jack squat about Kishimoto or his motives.  But by applying logic -- which is underrated, by the way -- what we do know is that Kishimoto's reputation and livelihood are intertwined with this manga.  He has spent 15 years of his life on it.  It is likely to be the defining achievement of his career, and his legacy.  He admits that once it's over he owes his wife a honeymoon and more time with his children because he's been a workaholic who spends his evenings at the studio.
 
He doesn't care?  He's sadistic for the hell of it?  He's mindlessly messing around with YOUR pairing?
 
This past week, the majority of the discussion revolved around concerns that something was going to happen with SS.  The HORROR!!!  But as many calmer souls predicted (myself included), it was a non-event that Kishimoto glossed over.  It appears to have been nothing more than a brief moment of basic decency from Sasuke, wherein he expressed his gratitude to Sakura by choosing -- for once -- not to be an overtly nasty and condescending asshat.  He didn't thank her, but he didn't say anything crappy, either.  For Sasuke, that's a big-souled moment.
 
Of course it still failed Naruto's acid test of how he expects Sakura-chan to be treated; Obito too, for that matter.  And the only reason for Naruto's confrontational question to be included was to highlight that he's thinking of Sakura, knows Sasuke is a complete tool, and for Kishimoto to skewer anyone who thought Sasuke had changed significantly.
 
So you got what you wanted.  No SS details to mar the progress of NS, plus a moment of Naruto's concern for Sakura (and still calling her Sakura-chan, by the way).  Cool.  
 
But wait... No... now it's the OMFG!ColorCoverTRAVESTY!!!!1!1!!  Cue for more drama.  Sigh.
 
You know what I saw when I looked at the color cover?  I saw a hero in the lead, followed by his two sidekick friends who are equal in terms of his reliance on them for support of his quest for Good, followed by their sensei.  I saw Kishimoto summing up the basic plot of the story in a new, Wild West motif. 
 
What I did NOT see is a reason for fear, doubt, and angry denouncements that Kishimoto doesn't care about his story, about Sakura's development, or about NS.  Those are fan presumptions not based on fact.  Look underneath the underneath does not mean straining to see the monster under the bed.  Remember, the target audience for this story is younger boys; it's not going to require charts, maps, a degree in psychology, and encyclopedic knowledge on the history of Japan and ninja culture to understand it.
 
Kishimoto knows what he's doing with his characters and the pairings. He has a plan and he's working it.  There is absolutely no reason to react to every little thing as if it's some kind of conspiracy on his part to destroy your investment in NS.  Kishimoto has A LOT more invested in it than you do.
 
Just my opinion.

  

It's all good. You could edit your post if you want. I don't want to see support for Sakura-bashers around here.

This again, not every NS fan is a Sakura fan if someone say something you didn't like just ignore them only the mod o a group of users can complaing about character bashing. I like Sakura but this Sakura Godess thing is sometime anoying is just like Kishi favorytsm for Sasuke character.


Conclusion NS fandom is now bocoming a house of a lot of craying, drama and anguist house.

Bad inglish cannot help it sorry.

#562 FreakySandra1995

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:18 PM

I totally agree here, that's why I say we can't dismiss what's on the cover, no matter how we look at it. The matter here is depends how you look at it, ofc and that's when fanbases's own interpretation comes in, depending from which POV we're looking.
Take NH cover for example: no, it wasn't something romantic and it was a bonding moment. Ofc, NH fanbase likes to think it was oh, so romantiku, but we know it wasn't because of the actual content of the story within. Yes, Hinata might have fangirlied over Naruto's hands but the overall idea was a bonding moment of everyone over Neji's death. That's what was in the manga, that's what was depicted in the cover.
That's why I say we cannot just close eyes and pretend nothing happened with this cover either. I'm not stupid (just to be clear, I am not making any reference to anyone here!) to just deny what's in my front cause else it's gonna bite me in the ass later, so that's what I always try to do - look at it objectively. And that's what I am doing with the recent cover as well. As I said, it doesn't diminish the development throughout the manga, however, Sakura has been branded always as the love-struck girl when it comes to Sasuke. Then you apparently develop her out of that area to later do what? Offer an image that makes the reader go back exactly at that Sakura image.

 

People say I'm reading too much into it and yadda, yadda, I'm influencing and whatnot, but ask yourselves: was that blush really necessary? What purpose it serves? How can you explain it knowing the image Kishi had for Sakura for such a long time? 

 

People might blame me for going batsh*t crazy or whatever they think I'm doing but you can't really blame me after what he's doing and after he, purposely, himself admitted that he likes to write the manga in this way, in the Kizuna books interview. He, himself admitted liking to confuse the reader with his dialogues. And as I said, I'm fine with it and I would be fine with it as long as it doesn't go overboard, which Kishi kinda went lately.

And I'd say lots of more things but I am really gonna shut up and mind my own business because, oh well...reasons.

 

*sigh* Who knows, maybe I'm a bit to optimistic, but I really think nothing more about the blush then fanservice I guess...
But you know, I see your point here. And I understand your reasoning. I just don't  really agree. But I'm not blaming you for thinking like that. 
Too bad we don't know what's in Kishi's mind. Would be helpful some times.


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#563 Nate River

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:19 PM

Is Obito finally going to die? About time. :th_yeah: Sorry, I know there are people here who like his character, but I'll be happy when he's finally gone. It would have been better if he were to live and face the consequences of all the kitten he's done, but that was never going to happen, so I say good riddance. Now I just hope he won't be able to cheat death again.
 
Overall it was an alright chapter, a little boring to me though. I did like the part where Naruto had to take the time in the middle of the fight to ask Sasuke if he thanked Sakura and Obito, like he's a little kid or something. "Now Sasuke, remember your manners." :lol:
 
I'm really hoping that the last chapter wasn't the end of Sakura's involvement. I don't know what she'll be able to do now though.


On the one hand, I agree. On the other, the method means that I don't get my wish of him being bronzed (or stone) in a way that would allow Konoha to bury him ass-up for recreational use by Konoha's cyclists.

Oh, well.

I knew it was coming, so I'm not surprised. It just sucks that thing the cast is going to remember him for this and not countless people he killed or the fact that he's a big part of why they are even in this position.

Consequences are for designated a**holes only. Is there anyone besides Danzou who specifically killed because of their previous abhorrent behavior? Itachi, I suppose, but Itachi wanted to die that way whereas Danzo totally wanted to stay alive.

Oh, I liked the color shot. I understand wanting Sakura on her own on horse and not attached to a guy at the hip. I think that's a fair complaint. I don't understand the fandom's collective seizure over it's non-existence pairing relevance.

#564 Gojira

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:19 PM

Uh huh! But......may I know why you think like that?


Neither of them are Itachi

eh10ut.jpg


#565 Nostradamus

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:20 PM

And I in turn say that you can apply this to every main character in this manga, not just Sakura. Kakashi was badass for a good long time and now he is near worthless. Naruto was badass for a long time and now apparently he can't do anything without Sasuke-kun. Sakura is being pulled back and forth between strongest female lead to bag of emotions. Sasuke is shown to be powerful one minute...and then reduced to emo jerk who can be taken out with a sword to the chest. A character who can survive a megaton explosion, but swords are his kryptonite.

And still...no one listens to me.
 

I hate to say this but you're right. And it's not because I have something against you. It's because this is what Kishi's been doing to his characters. But let's be honest Sakura always gets the worst.

 

Two or three chapters ago we saw Naruto holding his ground against Kaguya, and now he needs his partner in life. Sasuke.

Sasuke is powerful one moment then he dies so easily by his own sword. :lmao:

And on and on.

 

Edit.


Edited by Nostradamus, 23 July 2014 - 08:25 PM.

                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#566 Kaeta

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:21 PM

Guys please what is going on with you? Yes I've to admit that the cover made me feel uneasy at first but now I am again really confident with ns. I mean we have all these moments and hints not only in the manga but also in the anime or advertising or in the movies like every movie had ns moments in it and rtn which is by /kishi/ is such a big win to ns. There is no way ns won't happen since thee are yet inevitable moments to come and the developement cannot be ignored! Give it some time Naruto will achive his dream where Jiraya, Minato(living with kushina and naruto) and Obito failed. For example sakura is the discipline of tsunade who is the hokage and related to the uzumaki and sakura has the same abilitY has her and the wife of the first hokage who is also an uzumaki, like kushina the wife of the fourth hokage and is paralleled to sakura. All these woman loved men who wanted to become hokage and who were paralleled to naruto. It's a big circle in which only ns fits in. Sasuke is different ffrom sakura-he won't end up with her. It's so obvious only ns makes story wise sense!

 Ackermann'd


#567 Chatte

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:21 PM

I could remove Sasuke entirely and none of the bullcrap would exist at all and everyone gets a fair share in the spotlight with no reductions in importance and relevance what so ever. Occam's Razor: "The simplest explanation is always the best" Simple solution? Get rid of Sasuke and no more drama will ensue and no one will be fighting for spotlight anymore.

Sasuke is pointless, useless, and is used as nothing more than a cheap drama device. His existence is moot and we are forced to believe he is more important than he actually is through convoluted plot armor and plot forced elements. He is not a rival because he has never been shown or even trying to compete with Naruto in anything except for maybe conflicts of interest that make no sense and have no real reason why he is even doing anything in the first place. He lost all his relevance since part 1 and everything that was actually established was thrown out the window.

Take away Sasuke and you reduce all pairing drama by a third. You reduced wasted panel time and development focusing on a useless character only meant to be the main characters obstacle and give it to characters who really are better written out and allow other characters to actually grow instead of a constant eb and flow or walking a narrow path. You remove the god aweful subplot of "reincarnated brothers" and the stupid "great friends" plot point that has so many holes in the bucket, it can't even hold water long enough for me the follow the garden that is the Naruto manga. You can reduce other character who actually only exist because of Sasuke and his relevance and thus reduce the count of useless characters significantly.

I am pretty sure that a good 90% of you would be happy if Sasuke never existed at all and the only drama would be is whether or not Naruto loves Sakura or Hinata making for a true love triangle.

 

Well, Kishi himself admitted he's treating her like a heroine so...q.e.d.  :zaru: 
No wonder why Sakura has only one major kick ass battle in this manga.


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#568 Change

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:22 PM

I hate to say this but you're right. And it's because I have something against you. It's because this is what Kishi's been doing to his characters. But let's be honest Sakura always gets the worst.
 
Two or three chapters ago we saw Naruto holding his ground against Kaguya, and now he needs his partner in life. Sasuke.
Sasuke is powerful one moment then he dies so easily by his own sword. :lmao:
And on and on.

Nah Naruto gets the worst
He goes from being completely brainless to doing something really smart

Posted Image

 


#569 Gojira

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:24 PM

I don't think its a matter of hope as the announcement that this movie is a part of a new project by Kishimoto I posted this before so that is why people thing that it might be an epilogue of Naruto when it ends hopefully .
 tumblr_n95n1tpZ7Y1r3rdh2o1_500.png

Well I hope they do XD And yeah thanks also will do that XD


Doubtful theres no way Kishi can wrap everything up in 19 chapters which is why i fear an open ending especielly with this movie coming out

eh10ut.jpg


#570 Nostradamus

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:26 PM

I could remove Sasuke entirely and none of the bullcrap would exist at all and everyone gets a fair share in the spotlight with no reductions in importance and relevance what so ever. Occam's Razor: "The simplest explanation is always the best" Simple solution? Get rid of Sasuke and no more drama will ensue and no one will be fighting for spotlight anymore.

Sasuke is pointless, useless, and is used as nothing more than a cheap drama device. His existence is moot and we are forced to believe he is more important than he actually is through convoluted plot armor and plot forced elements. He is not a rival because he has never been shown or even trying to compete with Naruto in anything except for maybe conflicts of interest that make no sense and have no real reason why he is even doing anything in the first place. He lost all his relevance since part 1 and everything that was actually established was thrown out the window.

Take away Sasuke and you reduce all pairing drama by a third. You reduced wasted panel time and development focusing on a useless character only meant to be the main character's obstacle and give it to characters who really are better written out and allow other characters to actually grow instead of a constant eb and flow or walking a narrow path. You remove the god awful subplot of "reincarnated brothers" and the stupid "great friends" plot point that has so many holes in the bucket, it can't even hold water long enough for me the throw it on the garden that is the Naruto manga. You can reduce the character list  with the ones who actually only exist because of Sasuke and his relevance and thus reduce the count of useless characters significantly.

I am pretty sure that a good 90% of you would be happy if Sasuke never existed at all and the only drama would be is whether or not Naruto loves Sakura or Hinata making for a true love triangle.
 

Ooooooh no. There is nobody on this forum or in this entire fandom who hates Sasuke more than me. I lay claim to be the biggest Sasuke hater in the entire existence of this manga.

How massive is my hatred? I rather read Twilight for the rest of my life than read one page of Sasuke's story.

That's harsh but true.


                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#571 Chatte

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:27 PM

 

*sigh* Who knows, maybe I'm a bit to optimistic, but I really think nothing more about the blush then fanservice I guess...
But you know, I see your point here. And I understand your reasoning. I just don't  really agree. But I'm not blaming you for thinking like that. 
Too bad we don't know what's in Kishi's mind. Would be helpful some times.

Well, that's what bothers me, this fanservice coming at the expense of characters. And yeah, most of the times we don't know, but in some aspects we do. At least, recently.. And it's ok hun, I'm not saying you should agree with me by any chance. I'm just expressing some opinions, that's all.


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#572 James S Cassidy

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:28 PM

You have no Idea  :glare: Probably even more then @James and I have my reasons for that hate  -_-

Oooh no. Your hatred is not bigger than mine. I will fight you for this. XDDD


Edited by James S Cassidy, 23 July 2014 - 08:28 PM.

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#573 KnS

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:30 PM

I'm not stupid (just to be clear, I am not making any reference to anyone here!) to just deny what's in my front cause else it's gonna bite me in the ass later, so that's what I always try to do - look at it objectively. And that's what I am doing with the recent cover as well. 

 

Hmm.  From where I sit, it seems to me that you're motivated to be "objective" not because you have an open, clear mind about what Kishimoto may or may not be presenting, but because you fear a "bite in the ass later."  You fear being wrong so you make sure you're looking for the worst case scenario.  Doesn't sound like true objectivity to me.
 

As I said, it doesn't diminish the development throughout the manga, however, Sakura has been branded always as the love-struck girl when it comes to Sasuke. Then you apparently develop her out of that area to later do what? Offer an image that makes the reader go back exactly at that Sakura image.

 
It certainly doesn't make every reader see it as Kishimoto purposely regressing Sakura's development.  Many people don't see it that way AT ALL.
 

but ask yourselves: was that blush really necessary? What purpose it serves? How can you explain it knowing the image Kishi had for Sakura for such a long time? 

 

Maybe she's flushed because they are racing fast on horses toward a fight?  Or toward the unknown?  Or maybe he thought it made her look pretty or vibrant?  Like I said, not every blush or every detail is a conspiracy.  The fact that it can be interpretted multiple ways, and the fact that it's an AU scene that has nothing to do with the manga development, should preclude (or flat out trump) any concerns as to its shipping implications.

 

He, himself admitted liking to confuse the reader with his dialogues. And as I said, I'm fine with it and I would be fine with it as long as it doesn't go overboard, which Kishi kinda went lately.

 

Right.  Dialogue.  He never said he likes to draw misleading panels just to confuse people.  

 

Nevertheless, even if Kishimoto likes to keep things on the ambiguous side he has never contradicted Naruto's love for Sakura, nor has he contradicted any of Sakura's recent growth away from Sasuke and toward Naruto.  Her sitting behind Sasuke on a horse with a blush on her face on an AU cover doesn't count.  

 

There are still zero credible barriers to NS.



#574 rocci

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:32 PM

Well, Kishi himself admitted he's treating her like a heroine so...q.e.d.  :zaru: 
No wonder why Sakura has only one major kick ass battle in this manga.

Naruto = sasuke > sakura.
Kishi doesn't use the boss, sub boss, henchmen system.

#575 Kaeta

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:32 PM

The movie name is a troll I don't believe it's canon Naruto's future design. It's some kind of story which isn't in touch with the canon material. Some sort of AU. So imo no need to worry.

 Ackermann'd


#576 Nostradamus

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:34 PM

Nah Naruto gets the worst
He goes from being completely brainless to doing something really smart

Yeah but with Naruto there always a balance. A couple of chapters ago we got the most idiotic technique in the history of the Naruto universe, a technique that was performed by Naruto. Sexy no jutsu. And then Naruto got a goodish moment against Kaguya.

 

Sakura shines once and then she's forgotten for a undetermined period of time.

 

PS. God I hate this keyboard.


Edited by Nostradamus, 23 July 2014 - 08:35 PM.

                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#577 FireFox

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:36 PM

Well, Kishi himself admitted he's treating her like a heroine so...q.e.d.  :zaru: 
No wonder why Sakura has only one major kick ass battle in this manga.

You mean Sasuke being the Heroine right ? I read that from the Kizuna Interview and was like WTF  :wot:  basically had the same conclusion Sasuke took all of her fight screen  :roll:

 

Doubtful theres no way Kishi can wrap everything up in 19 chapters which is why i fear an open ending especielly with this movie coming out

But the movies has nothing to do with the canon Manga story its just a movie even if its a part of some project besides Kishimoto said he's ending this manga conclusively which means no open ending and he said there is still the Sasuke issue to be handled which mean SN fight is happening . So I don't think he's ending Naruto this year . 


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#578 六道仙人

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:38 PM

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#579 James S Cassidy

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:38 PM

I hate to say this but you're right. And it's not because I have something against you. It's because this is what Kishi's been doing to his characters. But let's be honest Sakura always gets the worst.

 

Two or three chapters ago we saw Naruto holding his ground against Kaguya, and now he needs his partner in life. Sasuke.

Sasuke is powerful one moment then he dies so easily by his own sword. :lmao:

And on and on.

 

Edit.

lol. Well at least we can agree on something. Progress, ho.

Does Sakura get the worst? I don't know about that. I am still on the fence because I find Naruto's development with this way more hurtful to him. Hinata has been extremely treated like crap and Kishi has her tripping on a rock and forgetting she has her Byakugan. Kiba had to remind Hinata she has a Byakugan...that's really sad. (And yes, I don't like to take into account what kind of "role" these characters play. Even side characters should get good story elements.)

Alot of character who had so much potential were wasted because of Sasuke and his focus...and the Kage Summit Arc just....I hope it is true that Kishi said "I am messed up there," because that's when everything went down hill or started to.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 23 July 2014 - 08:39 PM.

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#580 Nostradamus

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:39 PM

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You can already feel the love. :love: :love: :love: :love:


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Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
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