814 replies to this topic

[AzureWaters]

I'm not one for parallels. I can understand people seeing similarities within their pairing to Obi/Rin and MinaKushi, but what stops me from supporting the theories is that Kishi rarely utilizes it within his story and nothing comes from it.

MinaKushi:

Not compared with NaruSaku in the manga or canon, but used somewhat in the movie.

ObiRin:

Still impending, but I'm in doubt if Kishi will mention Sakura at all in relation to Rin. Currently sidelining her.

TsunJir:

Traded off for Dan/Tsunade focus. Tsunade is in love with Dan and will rejoin him when dead.


But this goes both ways. We shouldn't be wasting time agonizing over NH being similar to MinaKushi, because it isn't and though the scene may look familiar its likely just Kishi recycling scenarios and he's not thinking NH=MK when drawling that panel at all.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I'm not one for parallels. I can understand people seeing similarities within their pairing to Obi/Rin and MinaKushi, but what stops me from supporting the theories is that Kishi rarely utilizes it within his story and nothing comes from it.

MinaKushi:

Not compared with NaruSaku in the manga or canon, but used somewhat in the movie.

ObiRin:

Still impending, but I'm in doubt if Kishi will mention Sakura at all in relation to Rin. Currently sidelining her.

TsunJir:

Traded off for Dan/Tsunade focus. Tsunade is in love with Dan and will rejoin him when dead.


But this goes both ways. We shouldn't be wasting time agonizing over NH being similar to MinaKushi, because it isn't and though the scene may look familiar its likely just Kishi recycling scenarios and he's not thinking NH=MK when drawling that panel at all.

Well but Tsunade's boyfriend was just like Naruto in terms of personality.

Minakushi comes after Narusaku.
On shounen jump fest 2009 on something close he said that was begining to draw Naruto's background so you already knows where is my point.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

I'm not one for parallels.

Same. Parallels can give fiction more depth but they are next to useless when it comes to trying to figure out where the series is headed. Especially so if the series has a lot of parallels in the first place. Naruto the character has so far had parallels in Gaara, Sasuke, Nagato, Jiraiya, Obito, Kakashi, the jinchuuriki in general and Hinata. Maybe even with more people, that's just who I can recall on the top of my head.

And like Dαrkrєrsŧ says, Tsunade's both love interests paralleled Naruto. As did her little brother. So, yeah. (And I can't even type the word correctly.)

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 07:20 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Same. Parallels can give fiction more depth but they are next to useless when it comes to trying to figure out where the series is headed. Especially so if the series has a lot of parallels in the first place. Naruto the character has so far had parallels in Gaara, Sasuke, Nagato, Jiraiya, Obito, Kakashi, the jinchuuriki in general and Hinata. Maybe even with more people, that's just who I can recall on the top of my head.

And like Dαrkrєrsŧ says, Tsunade's both love interests paralleled Naruto. As did her little brother. So, yeah. (And I can't even type the word correctly.)

The jinchuuriki in general no, and neither hinata, neither.
Naruto has the power to change people, he change everyone, even Sasuke on part 1 when he started to care about his comrades, Naruto changed hinata, neji and etc... A lot of people with his ideals and they become more like him.
Even Sakura that was a girl with no determination and other stuff naruto changed her.
the jinchuuriki share a common background ( they are hated) but Killer bee was way more ahead of Naruto, that's why bee become his teacher.
I disagree with you in terms of parallel, parallels have differences per example MinaKushi and Narusaku.
Minakushi comes from Narusaku and all the important things that happened with Naruto and Sakura happened with Minato and Kushina.
It tells what type of family the main character will have and what's the role model for a family that the author pretends which is Naruto ( that is a fool with a golden heart) and a tsundere woman ( which is Sakura).

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

and neither hinata, neither.

Yeah? http://www.mangapand...chapter-79.html

Another one: http://www.mangapand...chapter-79.html

Yet another: Tell it how it is, Rock Lee! http://www.mangapand...chapter-80.html

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 07:39 PM.

[Tsubaki]

There is no ambiguity about Sakura's feelings for Sasuke. We know full well that she still has some romantic feelings for him (for example, chapters 474 and 540, on top of my head, I think). The only question is whether Sakura will get over her feelings for him during the course of this manga. I agree that there will be closure for SS. Personally, though, I have a hard time seeing what could possibly make Sakura abandon Sasuke now. She has witnessed him bragging about killing people, expressing desire to kill more, been asked by him to kill Karin. And as you are fond of reminding everyone, Sasuke tried to kill Sakura. Twice. Thrice, really, if you count their first reunion. Sasuke tried to kill Naruto and Kakashi, too. All this kitten from Sasuke, and Sakura still has feelings for him (chapter 540). I wonder myself what could make her get over him, if his almost murdering her does not? Karin get over Sasuke the moment he tries to kill her. Why did not Sakura? What possible event could be worse than Sasuke trying to kill her and her friends? Does Sasuke actually have to murder one of her friends for her to stop loving him? Because Sasuke could kill someone she did not like (Danzou) and that seemed to be still a-okay, as far as her feelings go. Any theories?

Sakura realizing that it was Naruto who complimented her in chapter 3 might make her realize her feelings for Naruto. I fail to see how it will make her feelings for Sasuke go away. She never remembers the forehead scene when thinking and reminiscening Sasuke. It doesn't seem that Sakura loves Sasuke because of the forehead compliment at all. So any theories?

Edit.

Further thoughts. Kishi could have had Sakura gradually loose all hope on getting Sasuke back. He did just this, driving Sakura to such desperation that she was willing to kill Sasuke. Why not continue this by having Sakura get over Sasuke after he tried to kill her in the summit arc? Why instead have Sakura reaffirm her faith in getting Sasuke back (and promise to stay out of the way when the boys have their fight)? Where is Kishi trying to go with this all if his intention is NS? It would have been so easy to have Sakura gradually loose all hope on Sasuke, make her do "Karin". Why not? Why not have Hinata get over Naruto after 450? Why continue to show she still has feelings for him? Why make her be by Naruto's side in this chapter 614? Why have Kiba and Neji both mention her to Naruto? Where is Kishi going with that, if the intention is NS?

What I'm trying to say is: Kishi had his chance to sink both SS and NH for good and leave the road open for NS. Why not do this already? Just for the sake of mystery?

Hope this post is still on-topic. If it is not, I could move it to the debate thread?

you and @luffyq1 has some good points about it and I agree about how Sakura has so many reasons to get over her feelings for Sasuke, but yet she still loves him, but at the same time I understand when people here say she still hasn't get over her feelings for sasuke because it isn't the right time yet (to keep the tension) because sometimes we have to remember that this is a story and some things will not be resolved till the very end and romance is one of these things for sure.

The only thing we can do is wait to see how Kishi will solve this.


-------

Edited by Tsubaki, 21 December 2012 - 07:50 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yeah? http://www.mangapand...chapter-79.html

Another one: http://www.mangapand...chapter-79.html

Yet another: Tell it how it is, Rock Lee! http://www.mangapand...chapter-80.html

i told you that he changed hinata.
She wasnt like there since the begining you dont read the flashbacks.
Even on those pages she says that's also my ninja way.

@tsubaki i do agree with you but the more kishimoto keep her feeligns for sasuke the more her character is degraded, that's the problem, if he wants to develop her character he have to made her get rid of those feelings.
Otherwise she will still be struck in the past while the other characters move forward.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 08:08 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

i told you that he changed hinata.
She wasnt like there since the begining you dont read the flashbacks.
Even on those pages she says that's also my ninja way.

Those panels establish similarity (not identicalness) between Naruto and Hinata and therefore create the possibility to parallel them. Though, it's pretty much possible to parallel anything. Did you notice for instance that Neji's death paralleled both his father's death and the time when Neji himself tried to kill Hinata?

@tsubaki i do agree with you but the more kishimoto keep her feeligns for sasuke the more her character is degraded, that's the problem, if he wants to develop her character he have to made her get rid of those feelings.
Otherwise she will still be struck in the past while the other characters move forward.

Yeah, I can't even begin to tell you how much I disagree with this. There is no way Sakura is degraded by having feelings for Sasuke. Especially since she has shown growth in her approach to him. She has stood up to him (the summit arc) and shown that no matter how much she loves, she won't betray her mentor, her family, her friends and her village for his sake. She might love him, but she is not going to murder for him. Falling in love with Naruto doesn't make Sakura a more mature and developed person.

[Zatheko]

Yeah? http://www.mangapand...chapter-79.html

Another one: http://www.mangapand...chapter-79.html

Yet another: Tell it how it is, Rock Lee! http://www.mangapand...chapter-80.html

If anything that just seems like her copying naruto lol, not really a parallel and as dark said naruto changed her she wasn't like that before hand.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Those panels establish similarity (not identicalness) between Naruto and Hinata and therefore create the possibility to parallel them. Though, it's pretty much possible to parallel anything. Did you notice for instance that Neji's death paralleled both his father's death and the time when Neji himself tried to kill Hinata?


Yeah, I can't even begin to tell you how much I disagree with this. There is no way Sakura is degraded by having feelings for Sasuke. Especially since she has shown growth in her approach to him. She has stood up to him (the summit arc) and shown that no matter how much she loves, she won't betray her mentor, her family, her friends and her village for his sake. She might love him, but she is not going to murder for him. Falling in love with Naruto doesn't make Sakura a more mature and developed person.

Dying he understood how he father feels.



That was Naruto not her love for sasuke, that stood was Naruto she wanted to do that with him.

Now about betrails.
She wanted to leave with him on part 1.
On the second time ,she leave behind all her comrades, so i can only think on two possibilities dying or going on with him.

If she had fully grown as you pointed out she would tell naruto the truth and/or going on with her comrades to kill sasuke, you dont need to be a genius that she alone cant stand a chance against him.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 08:41 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

If anything that just seems like her copying naruto lol, not really a parallel and as dark said naruto changed her she wasn't like that before hand.

Even the differences allow for parallel. The whole point of the Gaara/Naruto parallel is that Gaara is what Naruto could have become if things were different. When Gaara turns good and gains acceptance, this is paralleled with Naruto's own desire to get acceptance in his own village. Hinata, like Naruto, just wants to live out her own ninja way. She is struggling for acceptance and appreciation, too, mostly from Naruto, while Naruto wants them from the village as a whole and especially from Sasuke. Like I said, you can parallel anything, if you try hard enough. Hinata changes in the course of the manga because Naruto inspires her. Naruto himself is inspired by Sasuke. Kishi's subtle hint that Naruto's love for Sasuke is similar to Hinata's love for Naruto himself? Totally, I'd say.*

*Kidding.

That was Naruto not her love for sasuke.
She leave behind all her comrades, so i can only think on two possibilities dying or going on with him.

Naruto was what? She leaves behind her comrades because she feels so guilty on having relied on everyone else and especially on Naruto, so she feels that she has to handle Sasuke on her own. This is explained clearly in the manga.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 08:40 PM.

[Zatheko]

Even the differences allow for parallel. The whole point of the Gaara/Naruto parallel is that Gaara is what Naruto could have become if things were different. When Gaara turns good and gains acceptance, this is paralleled with Naruto's own desire to get acceptance in his own village. Hinata, like Naruto, just wants to live out her own ninja way. She is struggling for acceptance and appreciation, too, mostly from Naruto, while Naruto wants them from the village as a whole and especially from Sasuke. Like I said, you can parallel anything, if you try hard enough. Hinata changes in the course of the manga because Naruto inspires her. Naruto himself is inspired by Sasuke. Kishi's subtle hint that Naruto's love for Sasuke is similar to Hinata's love for Naruto himself? Totally, I'd say.*

*Kidding.

I guess but I still think that's stretching is quite a bit lol.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Naruto was what? She leaves behind her comrades because she feels so guilty on having relied on everyone else and especially on Naruto, so she feels that she has to handle Sasuke on her own. This is explained clearly in the manga.

You know that when sakura is on under emotional pressure she does thing illogical and this is explained by kishimoto himself.

The hide the truth and tell naruto that she loves him because she feels guilty, her plan failed and she asked to kill sasuke by herself.
Sai didnt knew everythign otherwise he would not predict that she was going to put everyone to sleep, on the last minute.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 08:44 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

You know that when sakura is on under emotional pressure she does thing illogical and this is explained by kishimoto himself.

The hide the truth and tell naruto that she loves him because she feels guilty, her plan failed and she asked to kill sasuke by herself.
Sai didnt knew everythign otherwise he would not predict that she was going to put everyone to sleep, on the last minute.

Umm... I still don't get how this relates to what I said. Sakura is not perfect. She made mistakes and was a bit silly to think that she alone could kill Sasuke, yes. How does her love for Sasuke degrade again?

I guess but I still think that's stretching is quite a bit lol.

It is. Some parallels are clear as day and made by the manga itself. Some you have to actually look for and reach for.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 08:47 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Umm... I still don't get how this relates to what I said. Sakura is not perfect. She made mistakes and was a bit silly to think that she alone could kill Sasuke, yes. How does her love for Sasuke degrade again?

Sakura is unstable emotionally, and so yes she would go with him or die.
Sakura is a intelligent person and she knew that sasuke killed orochimaru and itachi she didnt stand a chance, i do think she wanted to see with her eyes if all those rumours were truth, she didnt believe on them death was certain.

Ofc it degrade it forces her to do mistakes and moreover all the "bad" things she did this was involved, she forced naruto to do that promise and etc..
instead of helping Naruto she put kakashi and him on danger, and moreover i dont need to say how naruto would feel if she was dead.
I dont even need to tell how is bad to still love a man that tried to kill u twice.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 08:56 PM.

[PhenixElite]

Even the differences allow for parallel. The whole point of the Gaara/Naruto parallel is that Gaara is what Naruto could have become if things were different. When Gaara turns good and gains acceptance, this is paralleled with Naruto's own desire to get acceptance in his own village. Hinata, like Naruto, just wants to live out her own ninja way. She is struggling for acceptance and appreciation, too, mostly from Naruto, while Naruto wants them from the village as a whole and especially from Sasuke. Like I said, you can parallel anything, if you try hard enough. Hinata changes in the course of the manga because Naruto inspires her. Naruto himself is inspired by Sasuke. Kishi's subtle hint that Naruto's love for Sasuke is similar to Hinata's love for Naruto himself? Totally, I'd say.*

*Kidding.


Naruto was what? She leaves behind her comrades because she feels so guilty on having relied on everyone else and especially on Naruto, so she feels that she has to handle Sasuke on her own. This is explained clearly in the manga.

As i already said a lot of times before, i also dont think that it destroyes sakuras character that she still has feelings for sasuke but to be honest, her character is completly f**cked and destroyed if she doesnt get over her feelings for sasuke. It would be the worst romance story ive ever seen.
Also as i stated, for me ss has already no chance anymore, its just my opinion but i have my reasons for it. I could never accept a pairing like SS that completly destroys every development and the whole love story inside this manga.

@Darkrerst: you wont instantly stop loving someone after a special event like hes trying to kill you. So for sakura its was the start of her feelings for sasuke fading away. All it needs for sakura is time, its not happening from one second to the other.

Edited by PhenixElite, 21 December 2012 - 09:04 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Sakura is unstable emotionally, and so yes she would go with him or die.
Sakura is a intelligent person and she knew that sasuke killed orochimaru and itachi she didnt stand a chance, i do think she wanted to see with her eyes if all those rumours were truth, she didnt believe on them death was certain.

Ofc it degrade it forces her to do mistakes and moreover all the "bad" things she did this was involved, she forced naruto to do that promise and etc..
instead of helping Naruto she put kakashi and him on danger, and moreover i dont need to say how naruto would feel if she was dead.

You should re-read the entire summit arc. Sakura meant to kill Sasuke from the start, and she meant to do this by herself. This is clearly stated by both Kakashi and Sai. Sakura's actions through the entire arc are consistent with this. She doesn't ask Naruto and Kakashi to join her and disposes Sai, Kiba and co before going to Sasuke. When she stands by Sasuke's side after he invites her closer to kill Karin, she is clearly gathering her resolve to stab Sasuke, not Karin. She only says that she will join him to get closer to Sasuke and then she planned to stab him with her poisoned weapon. This is clear from chapter 483. We are told very clearly what is happening. This isn't something we have to guess.

Forced Naruto make a promise? She pointed a knife at his throat and forced him to swear and then blackmailed him for years to keep it? Sakura was trying to kill Sasuke to help her village and Naruto, and because she wanted to save Sasuke from further darkness. She must have considered the risk to her own life worth it.

to be honest, her character is completly f**cked and destroyed if she doesnt get over her feelings for sasuke.

Why?

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[Chatte]

To me it's clear... When it's about fighting for Naruto, being along his side, Sakura gives her best. Sasori fight is an example. When she heard Sasori knew info about Orochimaru, which could help her do her part for Naruto, she instantly changed into a determined shinobi and kicked his ass.

When it comes to Sasuke, she is all sad and depressed.

Sorry, but I don't enjoy a depressed Sakura, I enjoy a kick-ass one.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

You should re-read the entire summit arc. Sakura meant to kill Sasuke from the start, and she meant to do this by herself. This is clearly stated by both Kakashi and Sai. Sakura's actions through the entire arc are consistent with this. She doesn't ask Naruto and Kakashi to join her and disposes Sai, Kiba and co before going to Sasuke. When she stands by Sasuke's side after he invites her closer to kill Karin, she is clearly gathering her resolve to stab Sasuke, not Karin. She only says that she will join him to get closer to Sasuke and then she planned to stab him with her poisoned weapon. This is clear from chapter 483. We are told very clearly what is happening. This isn't something we have to guess.

Forced Naruto make a promise? She pointed a knife at his throat and forced him to swear and then blackmailed him for years to keep it? Sakura was trying to kill Sasuke to help her village and Naruto, and because she wanted to save Sasuke from further darkness. She must have considered the risk to her own life worth it.

She was having doubts to do it at first start but then sasuke tried to kill her, later she did with resolve.
First off she said that wanted ot go with him, but he ask her to kill karin then she gets the proof that sasuke is no longer what she once knew he was.
(So yes she had doubts that Sasuke was the guy that the cloud ninjas described)
If she meant to kill sasuke from start she would have not hesited on her first attempt, she was still choosing if she kills karin or kill sasuke(when she grabs that kunai[when she was going make the decision to kill sasuke, he advance and tried to kill her])
On the second time she does with conviction because she wanted to carry the burden but she was unable to kill him because of her feelings.
and again she is unstable emotionally.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 09:14 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

To me it's clear... When it's about fighting for Naruto, being along his side, Sakura gives her best. Sasori fight is an example. When she heard Sasori knew info about Orochimaru, which could help her do her part for Naruto, she instantly changed into a determined shinobi and kicked his ass.

When it comes to Sasuke, she is all sad and depressed.

Sorry, but I don't enjoy a depressed Sakura, I enjoy a kick-ass one.

Well, I enjoy angst so I like it.

Sakura is partly motivated in her fight with Sasori by the fact that Sasori could have information about Orochimaru which in turn would lead team 7 to Sasuke. Sasori rewards her victory by giving her the time and place for meeting the spy Sasori thinks he has planted at Orochimaru's side. What makes you say that she wants this information just for Naruto, not because she wishes to save Sasuke? In the next arc, she is very eager to go after Sasuke and is clearly affected by seeing him. She even says that she wishes to save Sasuke for Naruto, since she thinks Naruto is willing to go too far (once again) to get Sasuke back. Seems to me that Sasuke is a big motivator for her. Naruto is of course as well.

She was having doubts to do it at first start but then sasuke tried to kill her, later she did with resolve.
If she meant to kill sasuke from start she would have not hesited on her first attempt, she was still choosing if she kills karin or kill sasuke(when she grabs that kunai[when she was going make the decision to kill sasuke, he advance and tried to kill her])
On the second time she does with conviction because she wanted to carry the burden but she was unable to kill him because of her feelings.
and again she is unstable emotionally.

She hesitated in both times because she has to kill her former friend, the guy she has feelings for. It's not easy to kill people, much less if you actually love them. There is no way that Sakura was about to join Sasuke. Nothing in that arc points that this is what she intended. "Unstable" she was in the sense that she wanted to do what she tought was the right thing by killing Sasuke but because of her love for him she could not do this. "Conflicted" is much better word to describe her feelings.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 09:19 PM.