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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread!


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#5761 Living Lavish

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 11:29 PM

QUOTE (TerrorKing @ Oct 9 2011, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, Naruto's main goal is to save Sasuke and bring him home. So if Sasuke were to die, it could lead to Naruto emotionally distancing himself from everyone, including Sakura. This could be for any number of reasons. Perhaps he wouldn't be able to confront Sakura because he would feel like he failed her and that he therefore doesn't deserve to be with her or perhaps she would just remind him of Sasuke and thus his own failure.

Personally, I don't think it would be the end of NS if Sasuke were to die. Naruto and Sakura would of course both be extremely depressed and it would take a lot of talking and comforting and yelling before they could finally move on, because in the end they would see that Sasuke choose his own path and that ultimately there was nothing they could have done to stop him. However, this is only if Sasuke dies a villain. If Sasuke redeems himself and dies a hero, then the only obstacle for Naruto and Sakura to overcomce would be to accept that even though they weren't able to bring him back, they still managed to save him.


I would be highly disappointed and pissed off tbh.
I don't see sasuke becoming a bigger hero then Naruto if kishi did that I don't think he would have called the manga ''Naruto''

Edited by Living Lavish, 08 October 2011 - 11:34 PM.


#5762 Living Lavish

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 11:38 PM

QUOTE (Phantom_999 @ Oct 9 2011, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh yeah I'm not surprised They do that all the time just ignore them buddy



yeah we know that ciardha they just DENY IT with their delusions. happy.gif



111189.gif 111189.gif 111189.gif Then Hinata "LOVES" EVERYONE!!! cause she wouldn't have the resolve to kill even if she forces her self to. And If Hinata DESERVES Naruto so much why didn't Kishi give HER the gall to spend time with him? AND she GAVE her life for Naruto? SHE WASN'T DEAD! she was only stabbed and to be honest Naruto would go six tails if ANY of his friends got hurt in front of his eyes His reaction wasn't special for Hinata. biggrin.gif Plus If she was STRONGER than Sakura She would be winning against WAY more people wouldn't she especially win against an Akatsuki member? You just say so because you want to be in the manga and and *get wild* with her. pictureem0.gif UNDERSTAND the difference you OBSESSERS. rolleyes.gif


Hinata didn't benefit him wit that suicide. she didn't help, save or protect him. He was in trouble and all she did was confess and kill herself.
We could have lost Naruto to the six tails because of her selfish moment.

NHers know this is true. when i bring it up they have no answer.
Rightfully so.

Edited by Living Lavish, 08 October 2011 - 11:44 PM.


#5763 TerrorKing

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 12:00 AM

QUOTE (Living Lavish @ Oct 9 2011, 01:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would be highly disappointed and pissed off tbh.
I don't see sasuke becoming a bigger hero then Naruto if kishi did that I don't think he would have called the manga ''Naruto''


Think of it this way. Imagine if in "Return of the Jedi", Darth Vader never redeemed himself and so Luke would have to kill not only the Emperor, but also his own father. That way, not only would he have been unable to save his father's life. He would also have been unable to save him from the dark side, thus it would have been a significantly more bittersweet victory.

And that's really how I see this whole "Sasuke dying" scenario. Either Naruto will have to kill Sasuke and deal with the consequences or Sasuke will somehow sacrifice himself in order for Naruto to gain the upper hand against Madara (or whoever is going to be the "final boss"). That way, it will be a lot like in "Return of The Jedi". Even though Luke couldn't bring his father back with him, he was still able to bring him back to being a good guy again. Thus, he had proven that the emperor was wrong, because in the end there WAS still good in him.

Hell, it was thanks to Vader that Luke was even able to survive his ordeal. He was at the Emperor's mercy and he only survived because he was able to finally get through to his father. So if Vader had never turned back to the light side, Luke would have been dead.

However, I don't think that is how it is going to happen in Naruto, because like you said, the manga is called "Naruto" and not "Sasuke". I imagine that Naruto will go up against Madara and then at some point, Madara will gain the upper hand. Then one way or another, Sasuke will realize that Naruto is one of the only real friends he's ever had and he will then help Naruto take down Madara, with Naruto landing the final hit (Because he's kittening Naruto biggrin.gif ). I don't think that Sasuke is going to die, because if he does then Naruto will have failed in one of his biggest goals. The one that, according to him, determines whether he can reach his ultimate goal of being Hokage, i.e. "How can I call myself Hokage if can't even save one friend?".

BTW sorry about all the Star Wars stuff. I just got done re-watching the original trilogy a few hours ago, so I kinda have Star Wars on the mind. biggrin.gif

Edited by TerrorKing, 09 October 2011 - 12:05 AM.

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#5764 Living Lavish

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 12:12 AM

QUOTE (TerrorKing @ Oct 9 2011, 01:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Think of it this way. Imagine if in "Return of the Jedi", Darth Vader never redeemed himself and so Luke would have to kill not only the Emperor, but also his own father. That way, not only would he have been unable to save his father's life. He would also have been unable to save him from the dark side, thus it would have been a significantly more bittersweet victory.

And that's really how I see this whole "Sasuke dying" scenario. Either Naruto will have to kill Sasuke and deal with the consequences or Sasuke will somehow sacrifice himself in order for Naruto to gain the upper hand against Madara (or whoever is going to be the "final boss"). That way, it will be a lot like in "Return of The Jedi". Even though Luke couldn't bring his father back with him, he was still able to bring him back to being a good guy again. Thus, he had proven that the emperor was wrong, because in the end there WAS still good in Vader (aka. Anakin).

Hell, it was thanks to Vader that Luke was able to survive his ordeal. He was at the Emperor's mercy and he only survived because he was able to finally get through to his father. So if Vader had never turned back to the light side, Luke would have been dead.

However, I don't think that is how it is going to happen in Naruto, because like you said, the manga is called "Naruto" and not "Sasuke". I imagine that Naruto will go up against Madara and then at some point, Madara will gain the upper hand. Then one way or antoher, Sasuke will realize that Naruto is one of the only real friends he's ever had and he will then help Naruto take down Madara, with Naruto landing the final hit (Because he's kittening Naruto biggrin.gif ). I don't think that Sasuke is going to die, because if he does then Naruto will have failed in one of his biggest goals. The one that, according to himself, determines whether he can reach his ultimate goal of being Hokage, i.e. "How can I call myself Hokage if can't even save onefriend?".

BTW sorry about all the Star Wars stuff. I just got done re-watching the original trilogy a few hours ago, so I kinda have Star Wars on the mind. biggrin.gif


Great post biggrin.gif great that you understand.

Edited by Living Lavish, 09 October 2011 - 12:13 AM.


#5765 Fenris

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 12:31 AM

Did anything happen new with SS? There's a lot going on Tumblr about it...
 
 
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#5766 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 12:38 AM

QUOTE (iamfenris @ Oct 9 2011, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Did anything happen new with SS? There's a lot going on Tumblr about it...

No? Maybe a lie but nothing more! happy.gif

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#5767 Fliss

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 12:40 AM

QUOTE (iamfenris @ Oct 8 2011, 06:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There's a lot going on Tumblr about it...


Such as...?

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#5768 Darth Krypt

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 01:37 AM

QUOTE (TerrorKing @ Oct 9 2011, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Think of it this way. Imagine if in "Return of the Jedi", Darth Vader never redeemed himself and so Luke would have to kill not only the Emperor, but also his own father. That way, not only would he have been unable to save his father's life. He would also have been unable to save him from the dark side, thus it would have been a significantly more bittersweet victory.

And that's really how I see this whole "Sasuke dying" scenario. Either Naruto will have to kill Sasuke and deal with the consequences or Sasuke will somehow sacrifice himself in order for Naruto to gain the upper hand against Madara (or whoever is going to be the "final boss"). That way, it will be a lot like in "Return of The Jedi". Even though Luke couldn't bring his father back with him, he was still able to bring him back to being a good guy again. Thus, he had proven that the emperor was wrong, because in the end there WAS still good in him.

Hell, it was thanks to Vader that Luke was even able to survive his ordeal. He was at the Emperor's mercy and he only survived because he was able to finally get through to his father. So if Vader had never turned back to the light side, Luke would have been dead.

However, I don't think that is how it is going to happen in Naruto, because like you said, the manga is called "Naruto" and not "Sasuke". I imagine that Naruto will go up against Madara and then at some point, Madara will gain the upper hand. Then one way or another, Sasuke will realize that Naruto is one of the only real friends he's ever had and he will then help Naruto take down Madara, with Naruto landing the final hit (Because he's kittening Naruto biggrin.gif ). I don't think that Sasuke is going to die, because if he does then Naruto will have failed in one of his biggest goals. The one that, according to him, determines whether he can reach his ultimate goal of being Hokage, i.e. "How can I call myself Hokage if can't even save one friend?".

BTW sorry about all the Star Wars stuff. I just got done re-watching the original trilogy a few hours ago, so I kinda have Star Wars on the mind. biggrin.gif


That's basically how I see it too. I always compare how Naruto would end with ROTJ. Sasuke will definitely turn back to the light side. The question is whether he will survive or not. Right now we can only guess. But I vote for him being dead. It would solve the problem of him not being accepted by the shinobi world for things he had done especially in the Kage meeting. The other villages hate him alot. It is very possible for Sasuke to die and Naruto still not moping about it. He would be happy as long as he's able to save his friend from the darkness.

DK

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#5769 Living Lavish

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 02:00 AM

QUOTE (Darth Krypt @ Oct 9 2011, 02:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's basically how I see it too. I always compare how Naruto would end with ROTJ. Sasuke will definitely turn back to the light side. The question is whether he will survive or not. Right now we can only guess. But I vote for him being dead. It would solve the problem of him not being accepted by the shinobi world for things he had done especially in the Kage meeting. The other villages hate him alot. It is very possible for Sasuke to die and Naruto still not moping about it. He would be happy as long as he's able to save his friend from the darkness.


He just explained why he thinks he wont die dry.gif

Just because the villages hate him doesn't mean thats the sole reason he has to die.
he will redeem himself and Naruto, Kakashi and Sakura will help him.

Edited by Living Lavish, 09 October 2011 - 02:00 AM.


#5770 RedDelicious

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 02:00 AM

QUOTE (TerrorKing @ Oct 8 2011, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, Naruto's main goal is to save Sasuke and bring him home. So if Sasuke were to die, it could lead to Naruto emotionally distancing himself from everyone, including Sakura.

You are still confusing saving Sasuke (from darkness), with saving his life.
Naruto has already said that he is willing to fight to the death (for both of them) to stop Sasuke from attacking the Leaf village.

QUOTE (TerrorKing @ Oct 8 2011, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Think of it this way. Imagine if in "Return of the Jedi", Darth Vader never redeemed himself and so Luke would have to kill not only the Emperor, but also his own father. That way, not only would he have been unable to save his father's life. He would also have been unable to save him from the dark side, thus it would have been a significantly more bittersweet victory.

Vader and Sasuke are very different people, though. Vader originally wanted to be a good person, but found himself dominated by the superior will of the Emperor (due to the dark side). So Vader found redemption for killing millions of people and almost all of the Jedi by saving his son. (Which is actually pretty poor writing, as there are lots of evil people who will fight for their own family.)

Sasuke, on the other hand, has a massive inferiority complex due to Itachi's mind games. Anyone weaker than Sasuke is mocked as being worthless. Anyone of equal or greater strength makes Sasuke angry, jealous, and depressed. One way or the other, Sasuke considers them a threat to him, a threat that must be killed or dominated. That's why I think, ultimately, Sasuke *must* die (for the story), because the only way he can let go of his hatred is if he no longer has a reason to fight. If he is dying, then Naruto is no longer a threat to him, and Sasuke can finally acknowledge him. (I'm not saying Naruto will kill Sasuke. If Naruto were to kill Sasuke, then everything you said in the first quote would be true.)

#5771 Darth Krypt

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 02:21 AM

QUOTE (Living Lavish @ Oct 9 2011, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He just explained why he thinks he wont die dry.gif


You make it sound like he's 100% correct which is not true. I can give reasons for the other side can't I? This is a debate thread after all.

QUOTE (RedDelicious @ Oct 9 2011, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You are still confusing saving Sasuke (from darkness), with saving his life.
Naruto has already said that he is willing to fight to the death (for both of them) to stop Sasuke from attacking the Leaf village.


This is what I'm trying to say. He can still save Sasuke even if he dies. I believe I have said it before. It all boils down to the definition of save. Right now Naruto saying he will save Sasuke but save him from what? Its not save his life. If its saving him from loneliness, there was alot of times where Naruto and Sakura approached him but he downright rejected them. If the definition of save is that, then he will definitely survive in the end and live with team 7 to destroy his loneliness. But now he is obsessed with revenge. That is what Naruto is trying to save him from. His obsession. Basically in star wars terms, the "dark side". By this definition it is very possible to save him from revenge but still end up dying.

DK

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#5772 RedDelicious

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 02:44 AM

QUOTE (Darth Krypt @ Oct 8 2011, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That is what Naruto is trying to save him from. His obsession. Basically in star wars terms, the "dark side".

I was just checking chapters 485-487 again. I get the impression that Naruto thinks, if Sasuke comes to understand Naruto (when master-class ninjas fist meet), then Sasuke will see a different path than revenge/hate/obsession. (As Naruto points out, they could have been in each other's shoes. The only difference is that Iruka give him bonds of caring, so that Naruto wants to protect people from pain, while Sasuke/old-Gaara/Nagato wanted to "share" their pain with others.)

It also reminded me of what what some people pointed out at the time: after both Naruto and Sasuke are in front of her, Sakura is all about Naruto. wink.gif Her inner thoughts are on him, and when she spoke to Sasuke itwas to yell at him for disrespecting Naruto. People say that Sakura needs to show that she will chose Naruto over her old "love", but I think she *did* in these chapters.

Edited by RedDelicious, 09 October 2011 - 02:45 AM.


#5773 elemental anubis

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 03:16 AM

The Great Toad Sage said naruto would battle a "young man" with special eyes, is that young in human years for example sasuke or in toad years for example madara?

your thoughts?

#5774 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 04:15 AM

QUOTE (elemental anubis @ Oct 9 2011, 04:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Great Toad Sage said naruto would battle a "young man" with special eyes, is that young in human years for example sasuke or in toad years for example madara?

your thoughts?

Madara is like hundreds of years old or something right? So I guess Sasuke.

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#5775 Phantom_999

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 05:08 AM

QUOTE (Living Lavish @ Oct 8 2011, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hinata didn't benefit him wit that suicide. she didn't help, save or protect him. He was in trouble and all she did was confess and kill herself.
We could have lost Naruto to the six tails because of her selfish moment.

NHers know this is true. when i bring it up they have no answer.
Rightfully so.


EXACTLY rolleyes.gif

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#5776 Fenris

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 07:59 AM

Hey guys, do you ever think, that Kishi has been slowly developing NS like he has, so he'll have something to back him up when he makes them the pairing, at say, the end of the manga? So his ratings wont go down? And to be developing them so slowly behind the scenes, (behind SS, behind Hinata's massive love for Naruto) is to be like developing a slow form of connection between Sakura and Naruto, a friendship that slowly develops into love.
 
 
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#5777 Soul

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 09:35 AM

QUOTE (iamfenris @ Oct 9 2011, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey guys, do you ever think, that Kishi has been slowly developing NS like he has, so he'll have something to back him up when he makes them the pairing, at say, the end of the manga? So his ratings wont go down? And to be developing them so slowly behind the scenes, (behind SS, behind Hinata's massive love for Naruto) is to be like developing a slow form of connection between Sakura and Naruto, a friendship that slowly develops into love.

Yes i had that in mind,Even if kishi did something to back up this pairing when it will be a canon and NH and SS fan will still whine about it dry.gif

#5778 elemental anubis

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 09:57 AM

QUOTE (NaruSaku1 @ Oct 8 2011, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Madara is like hundreds of years old or something right? So I guess Sasuke.



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#5779 TerrorKing

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 12:27 PM

QUOTE (RedDelicious @ Oct 9 2011, 04:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You are still confusing saving Sasuke (from darkness), with saving his life.
Naruto has already said that he is willing to fight to the death (for both of them) to stop Sasuke from attacking the Leaf village.


QUOTE (Darth Krypt @ Oct 9 2011, 04:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is what I'm trying to say. He can still save Sasuke even if he dies. I believe I have said it before. It all boils down to the definition of save. Right now Naruto saying he will save Sasuke but save him from what? Its not save his life. If its saving him from loneliness, there was alot of times where Naruto and Sakura approached him but he downright rejected them. If the definition of save is that, then he will definitely survive in the end and live with team 7 to destroy his loneliness. But now he is obsessed with revenge. That is what Naruto is trying to save him from. His obsession. Basically in star wars terms, the "dark side". By this definition it is very possible to save him from revenge but still end up dying.


That was the entire point of my post. It's not so much about whether Sasuke dies or not. It's about whether he dies a villain (The dark side) or if he redeems himself and then dies (The light side). If it's the first option, then it will be a very bittersweet victory, because even though Naruto might have been able to defeat Madara and bring peace to the world, he will also also have been forced to kill his best friend and he would also have been unable to save him from the darkness. I don't think that anyone would blame him though, since at this point everyone has more or less given up on Sasuke and is quite convinced that he is a lost cause. In the end, Naruto would just have to accept that Sasuke chose his own path and so with the help of his friends and teammates, he would eventually be able to get over his "failure" and move on. If it's the second option, then Naruto will of course be sad that Sasuke is gone, but at the same time he will also be happy that he was able to help him let go of his anger and acknowledge him as a friend. So really, it's more about saving Sasuke's "soul", not Sasuke himself.

QUOTE (RedDelicious @ Oct 9 2011, 04:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Vader and Sasuke are very different people, though. Vader originally wanted to be a good person, but found himself dominated by the superior will of the Emperor (due to the dark side). So Vader found redemption for killing millions of people and almost all of the Jedi by saving his son. (Which is actually pretty poor writing, as there are lots of evil people who will fight for their own family.)

Sasuke, on the other hand, has a massive inferiority complex due to Itachi's mind games. Anyone weaker than Sasuke is mocked as being worthless. Anyone of equal or greater strength makes Sasuke angry, jealous, and depressed. One way or the other, Sasuke considers them a threat to him, a threat that must be killed or dominated. That's why I think, ultimately, Sasuke *must* die (for the story), because the only way he can let go of his hatred is if he no longer has a reason to fight. If he is dying, then Naruto is no longer a threat to him, and Sasuke can finally acknowledge him. (I'm not saying Naruto will kill Sasuke. If Naruto were to kill Sasuke, then everything you said in the first quote would be true.)


It is true that Sasuke and Vader are very different, but I still believe that there are some similarities in their respective character arcs. Like you said, Vader started out as a good person, but eventually turned evil, however Sasuke also started out as a good guy (before the Uchiha massacre). Afterwards he became introverted and obsessed with power so that he could kill Itachi and thereby "restore" his clan. Vader felt ostracised from the rest of the jedi order and thus his only solace was in his wife, Padme. However due to his nightmares about her dying during childbirth, he became obsessed with obtaining the power to stop that. In both cases, what ultimately lead both Sasuke and Vader down the path of darkness was love. Sasuke's love for his clan and Vaders love for Padme. Orochimaru preyed on Sasuke's feelings of hatred for Itachi and The Emperor preyed on Vaders strong desire to keep Padme from dying. In the end, both gave in to the temptation and thus began their journey towards darkness. It should be noted however that unlike Vader, I don't believe that Sasuke's ultimate plunge into darkness was caused by Orohicmaru but instead by Madara. Up until his final confrontation with Itachi, Sasuke's primary motivation was his hatred and his desire to restore his clan's honour. But afterwards, when he learned the truth about Itachi and the Uchiha massacre, the love that he felt for his brother when he was little became his motivation for exacting revenge upon Konoha.

It's also funny how you should mention that Vader's redemption for killing so many people (and Jedi's) essentially came from saving one life (the life of his son). In a way, if Luke had been able to bring him back with him, I really doubt that there would have been much of a place for him in the New Republic. His crimes were simply too numerous and too severe to simply be forgotten just like that, at least not without an appropriate sentence. That's also how I see Sasuke ending up. Even if he does return to the "light side" by the end of the manga, that doesn't change to fact that the rest of the ninja world still wants him dead, or at the very least imprisoned for life. So perhaps, just like Vader, death really is the only option left for Sasuke. As long as he dies as a "good guy".

But I guess, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. happy.gif

Edited by TerrorKing, 09 October 2011 - 12:29 PM.

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#5780 Darth Krypt

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 12:46 PM

QUOTE (TerrorKing @ Oct 9 2011, 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That was the entire point of my post.


Well I guess there's nothing much to say then. We can only wait.

DK

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