19964 replies to this topic

[redragon88]

You know, I originally thought that the only reason I liked NaruSaku was because it was the classic tsundere story of boy likes girl but girl hates him and then loves him. But when I think back on it what makes the relationship with Naruto and Sakura different from the standard tsundere story is how she still holds feelings for another guy even this late in the series. A tsundere generally only has the hero as a love interest and even if there's another guy his relevance it's diminished in comparison to the hero.

That said, I think the true reason the NaruSaku appeals to me it's because it fits with the other elements of difficulty that Naruto has to overcome.

The beginning of the story has Naruto:

1) Being treated like a nuisance by the villagers
2) Having his classmates thinks that he's just a joke
3) Being viewed as incompetent by the the more experienced ninja
4) Having a rival in Sasuke that thinks he's a talentless loser that won't ever amount to anything
5) And finally having a love interest in Sakura that thinks he's annoying and ridiculous

The point of having all this elements it's because the story as a whole is about how Naruto can overcome each of this different wall that are in front of him. Therefore ending with:

1) Being respected and loved by the village to the point of wanting him to become Hokage
2) Having his classmates respect his abilities and understand how far he's come
3) Being viewed as a very capable ninja by the older generation, therefore entrusting their will onto him
4) Having his rival, Sasuke, acknowledge his power, his ability to overcome the odds, and now consider him a true friend
5) And last but not least, finally get his love interest, Sakura, to truly love him for who he's always been

I keep remembering a comment that was posted in the Road to Ninja official page about why the fans liked Naruto. One of them mentioned how they liked the plot of Naruto falling in love with Sakura because it fit the story perfectly. At first I felt a little confused about it, but then I realized how it made perfect sense given that the walls that Naruto must overcome are never meant to be easy, quite the opposite actually. And Sakura is just meant to be one of those strong walls the eventually are meant to come down so that the story can be resolved as a whole.

Although I find Hinata's love for Naruto very sweet and actually enjoy some of the fan art done with it, the reason why I would find it strange if it were to happen in canon is because it contradicts the themes of difficulty that Naruto must fight for. The fact is that since Hinata has always loved Naruto she's something that Naruto could've gotten easily, therefore contradicting with his continuing theme of having challenges in every aspect of his life. Why else would Kishi have Naruto fall in love with a girl like Sakura that seemingly might never love him back if not to make her another wall that Naruto must bring down?

People can argue all they want about how Sakura is not part of Naruto's dreams or doesn't go along with his themes, but in all honesty when I see people doing so I think they might be in denial of how obvious it is that Sakura fits in Naruto's story of overcoming obstacles.

I understand that people like to relate to Hinata and her love. This is probably because she's an underdog and want her to succeed, but I find this very confusing since the true underdog is actually meant to be Naruto. We are supposed to witness Naruto's journey from zero to hero and support him all the way until the finish line. Some people assume that Kishi created Hinata's love for Naruto's sake but at the same time don't understand that having a secondary love interest is a pretty standard thing to do in a manga, even Hinata's personality is how the typical alternative love interest is shy and unsure. The secondary love interest has those feelings in order to take strength from them and become a better person for their own sake, that's Hinata in a nutshell.

I sometimes wonder if people dislike NaruSaku because of precisely what it represents, difficulty. They might think that Sakura's complicated love story is too much of a hassle and therefore prefer the more simple route that Hinata offers them given that her love is pretty straight forward. Maybe some think that since Sakura is so complex with her feelings that if she got together with Naruto that it wouldn't come of as genuine. But of course this is simply me speculating, I'm, by no means, saying this is the actual case but that's the impression I get sometimes.

So in a nutshell, the reason Naruto's love for Sakura goes perfectly with the plot is because it's difficult, you have to fight hard for it and even then it's not a certain thing to happen, just as it is with any other challenge that Naruto has had ahead of him. Just my two cents on the matter.

[narulsaku]

great post reddragon88. i totally agree with you even with the nh fan arts. but that you said up there the resons people dont like ns i think that it depends on thinking of people. i mean secondary characters love for the hero is common i ve seen it manytimes. i think people just dont like complicate things like sakuras love . so may be thatswhy they like nh but i ll still say its depends on people. you cant fix resons to like something first and then like it you first like it then find resons

[luffyq1]

I sometimes wonder if people dislike NaruSaku because of precisely what it represents, difficulty. They might think that Sakura's complicated love story is too much of a hassle and therefore prefer the more simple route that Hinata offers them given that her love is pretty straight forward.

So in a nutshell, the reason Naruto's love for Sakura goes perfectly with the plot is because it's difficult, you have to fight hard for it and even then it's not a certain thing to happen, just as it is with any other challenge that Naruto has had ahead of him. Just my two cents on the matter.

^This

Hinata is the easy route, gift wrapped specifically for Naruto. When has Naruto ever been known for taking the easy way out?

Edited by luffyq1, 30 November 2012 - 12:59 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I sometimes wonder if people dislike NaruSaku because of precisely what it represents, difficulty. They might think that Sakura's complicated love story is too much of a hassle and therefore prefer the more simple route that Hinata offers them given that her love is pretty straight forward. Maybe some think that since Sakura is so complex with her feelings that if she got together with Naruto that it wouldn't come of as genuine. But of course this is simply me speculating, I'm, by no means, saying this is the actual case but that's the impression I get sometimes.

So in a nutshell, the reason Naruto's love for Sakura goes perfectly with the plot is because it's difficult, you have to fight hard for it and even then it's not a certain thing to happen, just as it is with any other challenge that Naruto has had ahead of him. Just my two cents on the matter.

No because hinata is that girl.
That unfunny girl, which is shy and no one notices.
Much like Bella Swan , from that stupid "movie" called Twilight, for them the shy girl must have the hero no matter what, like the man cant have the girl he loves because the shy girls must achieve everything, and the hero is just an object of adoration.
We belong to this "twilight" generation, feels bad man.

I bet 1000$ that the girls who ship NH also love Twilight.

Edited by dovahkiin, 30 November 2012 - 01:08 PM.

[redragon88]

No because hinata is that girl.
That unfunny girl, which is shy and no one notices.
Much like Bella Swan , from that stupid "movie" called Twilight, for them the shy girl must have the hero no matter what, like the man cant have the girl he loves because the shy girls must achieve everything, and the hero is just an object of adoration.
We belong to this "twilight" generation, feels bad man.

I bet 1000$ that the girls who ship NH also love Twilight.

Well, I'm not familiar with any of the Twilight movies and the only scenes I'm aware of are the ones the appear in trailers I stumble upon. But from what I understand Bella is the actual main character in that series, so it's really no surprise that she gets to be with the guy she wants the most. That is her story so what she desires is what matters the most.

This goes back to my previous post in which I talked about how people support Hinata for being the underdog that should get what she wants. Every time I hear that statement I just think to myself "Have this people forgotten about how Naruto is an underdog as well?".

This is Naruto's story so by definition his wants should take more priority than the rest. Kishi even made it a point in a thank you message that we should continue to support the character of Naruto. He didn't say Naruto the series, he said Naruto the character. That has to mean something, right?

If Naruto is the one we should root for to surpass the difficulties ahead, I don't understand where people get the idea that Hinata's wants are more important. And what makes him different from Hinata is that we actually see him struggle with the pain of seeing the girl that he loves to be loving someone else. Hinata has never had those thoughts cross her mind. By that alone we should consider Naruto's love struggles to be more endearing and more worthwhile to support given how much he's willing to endure for the sake of the girl he loves.

Hinata doesn't have that inner struggle that Naruto has when it comes to unrequited feelings. Which leaves two conclusions:

1) Either Hinata is confident as all heck that she'll get Naruto that she doesn't even view the fact that Naruto likes Sakura as any sort of worry.
2) Kishimoto doesn't view giving Hinata any inner struggle as necessary because it's not like he was going to develop any kind of relationship between her and Naruto.

I'm sure that the second option makes way more sense.

[PhenixElite]

Well, I'm not familiar with any of the Twilight movies and the only scenes I'm aware of are the ones the appear in trailers I stumble upon. But from what I understand Bella is the actual main character in that series, so it's really no surprise that she gets to be with the guy she wants the most. That is her story so what she desires is what matters the most.

This goes back to my previous post in which I talked about how people support Hinata for being the underdog that should get what she wants. Every time I hear that statement I just think to myself "Have this people forgotten about how Naruto is an underdog as well?".

This is Naruto's story so by definition his wants should take more priority than the rest. Kishi even made it a point in a thank you message that we should continue to support the character of Naruto. He didn't say Naruto the series, he said Naruto the character. That has to mean something, right?

If Naruto is the one we should root for to surpass the difficulties ahead, I don't understand where people get the idea that Hinata's wants are more important. And what makes him different from Hinata is that we actually see him struggle with the pain of seeing the girl that he loves to be loving someone else. Hinata has never had those thoughts cross her mind. By that alone we should consider Naruto's love struggles to be more endearing and more worthwhile to support given how much he's willing to endure for the sake of the girl he loves.

Hinata doesn't have that inner struggle that Naruto has when it comes to unrequited feelings. Which leaves two conclusions:

1) Either Hinata is confident as all heck that she'll get Naruto that she doesn't even view the fact that Naruto likes Sakura as any sort of worry.
2) Kishimoto doesn't view giving Hinata any inner struggle as necessary because it's not like he was going to develop any kind of relationship between her and Naruto.

I'm sure that the second option makes way more sense.

I guess kishi showing hinata without struggles is a great reason because the audience wont feel so sad for her if shes not getting with naruto in the end.
I mean just imagine sakura after weve seen her struggle when she found out that hinata is in love with naruto. Dont have to mention how it sad it would be with naruto : .ö

[narulsaku]

I guess kishi showing hinata without struggles is a great reason because the audience wont feel so sad for her if shes not getting with naruto in the end.
I mean just imagine sakura after weve seen her struggle when she found out that hinata is in love with naruto. Dont have to mention how it sad it would be with naruto : .ö

yeha i do agree with that, think the same it would be sad. hey i think i ve seen such a disscussion. i cant recall where. sure for this fourme.

[CloudMountainJuror]

No because hinata is that girl.
That unfunny girl, which is shy and no one notices.
Much like Bella Swan , from that stupid "movie" called Twilight, for them the shy girl must have the hero no matter what, like the man cant have the girl he loves because the shy girls must achieve everything, and the hero is just an object of adoration.
We belong to this "twilight" generation, feels bad man.

I bet 1000$ that the girls who ship NH also love Twilight.

Agreed, especially with the bolded. It feels terrible to think that people actually think the Twilight movies are good. But I agree with the Twilight comparison. Especially because Hinata herself is an extremely shallow character, like Bella (not as bad as Bella, admittedly, but still).

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Agreed, especially with the bolded. It feels terrible to think that people actually think the Twilight movies are good. But I agree with the Twilight comparison. Especially because Hinata herself is an extremely shallow character, like Bella (not as bad as Bella, admittedly, but still).

A tv show here on my country were interviewing the Twilight fandom and they said that relationships like Bela and Edward really do exists, and they were so perfect the girls almost cried when they were saying this.
That made my day.

Edited by dovahkiin, 30 November 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Gravenimage]

A tv show here on my country were interviewing the Twilight fandom and they said that relationships like Bela and Edward really do exists, and they were so perfect the girls almost cried when they were saying this.
That made my day.

The horror, the pain.

[Paptala]

You know, I originally thought that the only reason I liked NaruSaku was because it was the classic tsundere story of boy likes girl but girl hates him and then loves him. But when I think back on it what makes the relationship with Naruto and Sakura different from the standard tsundere story is how she still holds feelings for another guy even this late in the series. A tsundere generally only has the hero as a love interest and even if there's another guy his relevance it's diminished in comparison to the hero.

That said, I think the true reason the NaruSaku appeals to me it's because it fits with the other elements of difficulty that Naruto has to overcome.

The beginning of the story has Naruto:

1) Being treated like a nuisance by the villagers
2) Having his classmates thinks that he's just a joke
3) Being viewed as incompetent by the the more experienced ninja
4) Having a rival in Sasuke that thinks he's a talentless loser that won't ever amount to anything
5) And finally having a love interest in Sakura that thinks he's annoying and ridiculous

The point of having all this elements it's because the story as a whole is about how Naruto can overcome each of this different wall that are in front of him. Therefore ending with:

1) Being respected and loved by the village to the point of wanting him to become Hokage
2) Having his classmates respect his abilities and understand how far he's come
3) Being viewed as a very capable ninja by the older generation, therefore entrusting their will onto him
4) Having his rival, Sasuke, acknowledge his power, his ability to overcome the odds, and now consider him a true friend
5) And last but not least, finally get his love interest, Sakura, to truly love him for who he's always been

I keep remembering a comment that was posted in the Road to Ninja official page about why the fans liked Naruto. One of them mentioned how they liked the plot of Naruto falling in love with Sakura because it fit the story perfectly. At first I felt a little confused about it, but then I realized how it made perfect sense given that the walls that Naruto must overcome are never meant to be easy, quite the opposite actually. And Sakura is just meant to be one of those strong walls the eventually are meant to come down so that the story can be resolved as a whole.

Although I find Hinata's love for Naruto very sweet and actually enjoy some of the fan art done with it, the reason why I would find it strange if it were to happen in canon is because it contradicts the themes of difficulty that Naruto must fight for. The fact is that since Hinata has always loved Naruto she's something that Naruto could've gotten easily, therefore contradicting with his continuing theme of having challenges in every aspect of his life. Why else would Kishi have Naruto fall in love with a girl like Sakura that seemingly might never love him back if not to make her another wall that Naruto must bring down?

People can argue all they want about how Sakura is not part of Naruto's dreams or doesn't go along with his themes, but in all honesty when I see people doing so I think they might be in denial of how obvious it is that Sakura fits in Naruto's story of overcoming obstacles.

I understand that people like to relate to Hinata and her love. This is probably because she's an underdog and want her to succeed, but I find this very confusing since the true underdog is actually meant to be Naruto. We are supposed to witness Naruto's journey from zero to hero and support him all the way until the finish line. Some people assume that Kishi created Hinata's love for Naruto's sake but at the same time don't understand that having a secondary love interest is a pretty standard thing to do in a manga, even Hinata's personality is how the typical alternative love interest is shy and unsure. The secondary love interest has those feelings in order to take strength from them and become a better person for their own sake, that's Hinata in a nutshell.

I sometimes wonder if people dislike NaruSaku because of precisely what it represents, difficulty. They might think that Sakura's complicated love story is too much of a hassle and therefore prefer the more simple route that Hinata offers them given that her love is pretty straight forward. Maybe some think that since Sakura is so complex with her feelings that if she got together with Naruto that it wouldn't come of as genuine. But of course this is simply me speculating, I'm, by no means, saying this is the actual case but that's the impression I get sometimes.

So in a nutshell, the reason Naruto's love for Sakura goes perfectly with the plot is because it's difficult, you have to fight hard for it and even then it's not a certain thing to happen, just as it is with any other challenge that Naruto has had ahead of him. Just my two cents on the matter.

Simply amazing post - people sometimes forget that this is a story, and these sorts of structural arguments regarding the plot, themes, and characterization are far more valid and logical than subjective arguments such as, "X and Y have no chemistry!" or "What about Z's feelings she has a right to be with whomever she/he wants!" or "A and B's personalities just go together!" or "Well if B and C got together, C would always be thinking about A"

I mean honestly, whatever couple gets together in the end is going to be disgustingly happy together - in what world would Kishi have the main couple NOT be happy together?

I fully and completely agree about your analysis of Naruto's love for Sakura, and the struggle that its supposed to represent for his character. As I've said elsewhere, Kishi specifically wants to depict the "resulting complications and....difficult relationships." As you've so artfully laid out, Naruto and Hinata's relationship has no complications, nor is it a difficult relationship by any stretch of the imagination. There was plenty more room for such things (such as by showing Hinata worrying over Naruto's love for Sakura, for example), but Kishimoto chose to go the simple route with this relationship.

This also represents a personal belief of mine, and matches perfectly with a quote in my sig from NF:

Nothing worthwhile is simple because things, both material and not, gain value through effort and struggle. Simple and easy is replaceable and that strips the meaning from it.

Naruto never had to earn or struggle for Hinata's love - it was always there from the minute she was introduced. Naruto's character has never been about having things just handed to him or having them simply fall into his lap. He's had to work hard for everything he's gotten - even though Kurama was "handed" to him by his father, he had to overcome his own buried hatred before facing him head on in a battle he nearly lost, and then he had to earn his friendship by continuing to have the willpower to resist Kurama's offers to "easy" power, and by being willing to understand and help Kurama in the first place. He had to even earn Jiraiya as a teacher.

So I completely and fully agree that Hinata winning over Naruto's heart would just not seem to fit in with Kishi's presentation of Naruto's character at all.

This goes back to my previous post in which I talked about how people support Hinata for being the underdog that should get what she wants. Every time I hear that statement I just think to myself "Have this people forgotten about how Naruto is an underdog as well?".

This is Naruto's story so by definition his wants should take more priority than the rest. Kishi even made it a point in a thank you message that we should continue to support the character of Naruto. He didn't say Naruto the series, he said Naruto the character. That has to mean something, right?

If Naruto is the one we should root for to surpass the difficulties ahead, I don't understand where people get the idea that Hinata's wants are more important. And what makes him different from Hinata is that we actually see him struggle with the pain of seeing the girl that he loves to be loving someone else. Hinata has never had those thoughts cross her mind. By that alone we should consider Naruto's love struggles to be more endearing and more worthwhile to support given how much he's willing to endure for the sake of the girl he loves.

Hinata doesn't have that inner struggle that Naruto has when it comes to unrequited feelings. Which leaves two conclusions:

1) Either Hinata is confident as all heck that she'll get Naruto that she doesn't even view the fact that Naruto likes Sakura as any sort of worry.
2) Kishimoto doesn't view giving Hinata any inner struggle as necessary because it's not like he was going to develop any kind of relationship between her and Naruto.

I'm sure that the second option makes way more sense.

This as well I fully agree with, and it boggles me just as much to run into this argument. I have actually been mocked for bringing up the fact that as the main character, Naruto's wants and desires take precedence over Hinata's. Naruto is the original underdog, and just because he's achieved a lot of what he set out to do by now doesn't change the fact that he is still an underdog in other arenas.

People seem to be of the opinion that Naruto's love was never presented as seriously as the girls' feelings, and that drives me up a wall, because Naruto has literally done practically everything the girls' have done to express his romantic love. Blushing, smiling, being willing to risk death to protect, wanting to impress, wanting to spend time with, being encouraging, being thankful, worrying over, admiring, etc. The only things Naruto hasn't done is cry over Sakura (which is understandable given that he's never thought Sakura was dead), or hug Sakura himself (rather than her hugging him). And people completely disregard that Naruto has done something huge that the girls' haven't done for their love interests, which is being willing to emotionally sacrifice for years for Sakura, by placing her feelings before his own in order to make her happy. There is not a single instance of Sakura doing this with Sasuke (though she tried at the summit, by being willing to kill him to save him, but ultimately her own feelings took precedence there; also, Sakura told Sasuke during her confession that revenge wouldn't make him happy, and then she asked her to take him with her to help with that revenge - that shows that what was important to Sakura there was her own feelings, not Sasuke's well being), and not a single instance of Hinata doing this with Naruto (in fact, she's specifically acted selfishly in her romantic love).

And Sakura has reflected this selflessness in her affections to Naruto (the summit being a large example).

Further, Naruto has shown how it emotionally pains him for Sakura to love Sasuke (hospital scene, POAL, 453), and Sakura's shown comical jealousy when Ino was hanging over Sasuke and Hinata was smiling with some emphasized silece - far less extreme reactions than Naruto's.

So it baffles me that just because his feelings for Sakura haven't been brought up in 150 or so chapters, that means his feelings are less for it, or that they must have changed off panel (when Kishi proved with Sakura's feelings for Sasuke that no one's feelings are going to change off panel).

Sorry, kind of went off on a side tangent there But ultimately, I agree - Kishi hasn't shown any struggle in the NaruHina relationship, and given Hinata no struggle concerning the fact that Naruto loves Sakura. The second option also seems to be the most likely, given what he has shown us thus far.

Edited by Paptala, 30 November 2012 - 04:20 PM.

[PhenixElite]

Simply amazing post - people sometimes forget that this is a story, and these sorts of structural arguments regarding the plot, themes, and characterization are far more valid and logical than subjective arguments such as, "X and Y have no chemistry!" or "What about Z's feelings she has a right to be with whomever she/he wants!" or "A and B's personalities just go together!" or "Well if B and C got together, C would always be thinking about A"

I mean honestly, whatever couple gets together in the end is going to be disgustingly happy together - in what world would Kishi have the main couple NOT be happy together?

I fully and completely agree about your analysis of Naruto's love for Sakura, and the struggle that its supposed to represent for his character. As I've said elsewhere, Kishi specifically wants to depict the "resulting complications and....difficult relationships." As you've so artfully laid out, Naruto and Hinata's relationship has no complications, nor is it a difficult relationship by any stretch of the imagination. There was plenty more room for such things (such as by showing Hinata worrying over Naruto's love for Sakura, for example), but Kishimoto chose to go the simple route with this relationship.

This also represents a personal belief of mine, and matches perfectly with a quote in my sig from NF:

Nothing worthwhile is simple because things, both material and not, gain value through effort and struggle. Simple and easy is replaceable and that strips the meaning from it.

Naruto never had to earn or struggle for Hinata's love - it was always there from the minute she was introduced. Naruto's character has never been about having things just handed to him or having them simply fall into his lap. He's had to work hard for everything he's gotten - even though Kurama was "handed" to him by his father, he had to overcome his own buried hatred before facing him head on in a battle he nearly lost, and then he had to earn his friendship by continuing to have the willpower to resist Kurama's offers to "easy" power, and by being willing to understand and help Kurama in the first place. He had to even earn Jiraiya as a teacher.

So I completely and fully agree that Hinata winning over Naruto's heart would just not seem to fit in with Kishi's presentation of Naruto's character at all.

This as well I fully agree with, and it boggles me just as much to run into this argument. I have actually been mocked for bringing up the fact that as the main character, Naruto's wants and desires take precedence over Hinata's. Naruto is the original underdog, and just because he's achieved a lot of what he set out to do by now doesn't change the fact that he is still an underdog in other arenas.

People seem to be of the opinion that Naruto's love was never presented as seriously as the girls' feelings, and that drives me up a wall, because Naruto has literally done practically everything the girls' have done to express his romantic love. Blushing, smiling, being willing to risk death to protect, wanting to impress, wanting to spend time with, being encouraging, being thankful, worrying over, admiring, etc. The only things Naruto hasn't done is cry over Sakura (which is understandable given that he's never thought Sakura was dead), or hug Sakura himself (rather than her hugging him). And people completely disregard that Naruto has done something huge that the girls' haven't done for their love interests, which is being willing to emotionally sacrifice for years for Sakura, by placing her feelings before his own in order to make her happy. There is not a single instance of Sakura doing this with Sasuke (though she tried at the summit, by being willing to kill him to save him, but ultimately her own feelings took precedence there; also, Sakura told Sasuke during her confession that revenge wouldn't make him happy, and then she asked her to take him with her to help with that revenge - that shows that what was important to Sakura there was her own feelings, not Sasuke's well being), and not a single instance of Hinata doing this with Naruto (in fact, she's specifically acted selfishly in her romantic love).

And Sakura has reflected this selflessness in her affections to Naruto (the summit being a large example).

Further, Naruto has shown how it emotionally pains him for Sakura to love Sasuke (hospital scene, POAL, 453), and Sakura's shown comical jealousy when Ino was hanging over Sasuke and Hinata was smiling with some emphasized silece - far less extreme reactions than Naruto's.

So it baffles me that just because his feelings for Sakura haven't been brought up in 150 or so chapters, that means his feelings are less for it, or that they must have changed off panel (when Kishi proved with Sakura's feelings for Sasuke that no one's feelings are going to change off panel).

Sorry, kind of went off on a side tangent there But ultimately, I agree - Kishi hasn't shown any struggle in the NaruHina relationship, and given Hinata no struggle concerning the fact that Naruto loves Sakura. The second option also seems to be the most likely, given what he has shown us thus far.

Thats the way we see it, awsome post!
As i said often before: The moment im starting to worry about NS is when we see a sign of naruto changing his feelings. Like a blushing face or a happily shocked face like in the beginning of sakuras confession towards hinata.

[Canadian_DJ]

"I used the Kushina advise because so far Hinata is the only one who as shown to Naruto that she really loves him and like Kushina she didn't thought if twice to risk her life for Naruto."
Kushina is his mom ofc she did not thought twice are you seriously?
everyone is risking their lives to protect naruto, that's not the war main objective protect both naruto and bee?
~40,000 ninjas died in this war to protect both and you are saying that only hinata is risking her life to protect naruto WTF!!!!?

-----
On Pain's Arc people died to protect naruto ( got ressurrected later) but died everyone was there fighting i did not see hinata "special" there that makes her similar to kushina she said "i love you" and then risked at all but she ignored naruto's pledge to not get involved in the fight no matter what she was reckless, that's the word.
After pain's defetead even neji and the others did not wanted to naruto go out by himself.

I really want you to point out what is two things that makes hinata similar to kushina

Man you took the words right outta my mouth!

[Canadian_DJ]

Technically speaking, yes, he could. But I bet you $20 right now that he doesn't trash his plot and characterizations and simply "make up any excuse" for doing it.

Kishimoto has his flaws -- occasionally hollow or non-existent explanations, rushed plotting, sidelining important characters, retconning -- but even with those storytelling issues he has maintained consistency with his overall plot. After 12 years or whatever, he's unlikely to take a new, unforeshadowed direction and offer nothing but an excuse.



I'm sorry but I must disagree. Hinata did not risk her life for Naruto. She risked her life for the chance to express her feelings to him. She herself admits she went into the fight with Pein for selfish reasons -- with no plan, believing there was nothing she could actually do to help Naruto, knowing she had no hope of beating Pein. Hinata thought she was choosing to die WITH Naruto, not FOR him. Big difference.

Kushina, on the other hand, knew she and Minato were the only chance to save Naruto's life as well as protect the village. They had a plan, and went into it knowing they were going to save his life through their actions. That means their sacrifice was neither vain nor empty. Plus she was his mother, and he was only a few minutes old. At that moment it was her sole responsibility.

There's simply no comparison between a mother sacrificing her life to save the life of her child, and an obscure, hopelessly weak girl making a tragic, uninvited spectacle of herself by dying for her one-sided love. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's how I see it. Just... no.



As far as I'm concerned there's only one: both were the object of kidnap attempts by Kumo.

Man wow just WOW kudos to you, spectacular post AWSOME come back great facts-one must always ALWAYS stick to facts or else its a downfall!!!

[Deej]

After being so awesome in the Sasuke retrieval arc, Kiba's been degraded to pairing feeder.
DX

It has been a very rough Shippuden for the poor guy. Remember he got beat by knocking himself out against a tree when Obito just stepped to the side. And had to endure Sai calling Akamaru smarter than him.

Even the KibaHina fandom, what was left of it, seems dead.

Edited by Deej, 30 November 2012 - 08:05 PM.

[Awes9]

Thanks everyone for the nice comments.
Reddragon and Patpala : your two posts are spot on, people completely miss the point if they think that Naruto's love story will end with him accepting Hinata's feelings and getting over Sakura off panel, nothing comes easy for Naruto that's why I don't see NaruHina happening, imo it's a redherring exactly like Tobi stating he's Madara while still wearing a mask is a red herring. The only reason Hinata's feelings are so emphasized is because she's in love with the main character not because she will get the main character. I know Hinata promised that she would hold hands with naruto at the end of the war but that doesn't matter Tsunade promised to Dan that she wouldn't lose, Oonoki promised to Naruto they would beat Madara, Kakashi promised to Obito he would protect Rin, Sakura promised that she would help Naruto get Sasuke back but in the end they all failed as long as it's not Naruto who makes the statement it doesn't mean anything other than what the character wishes at this point in time, this is his manga not Hinata's so there's nothing to fear what we are about to see it's Hinata final development.

Concerning Naruto's feelings there's no reason for him to get over Sakura simply for the fact it doesn't a negative impact on his character, in fact it's the contrary his feelings have been portrayed as selfless and positive and he doesn't revolve around them, he has many other goals outside of his feelings for Sakura and that's why he wouldn't gain anything by getting over her and let's be consistent the one who has the power to change people's feelings is Naruto so he's the one most likely to be able to change Sakura's heart not Hinata and he is the main character.

[swagosaurus]

Thanks everyone for the nice comments.
Reddragon and Patpala : your two posts are spot on, people completely miss the point if they think that Naruto's love story will end with him accepting Hinata's feelings and getting over Sakura off panel, nothing comes easy for Naruto that's why I don't see NaruHina happening, imo it's a redherring exactly like Tobi stating he's Madara while still wearing a mask is a red herring. The only reason Hinata's feelings are so emphasized is because she's in love with the main character not because she will get the main character. I know Hinata promised that she would hold hands with naruto at the end of the war but that doesn't matter Tsunade promised to Dan that she wouldn't lose, Oonoki promised to Naruto they would beat Madara, Kakashi promised to Obito he would protect Rin, Sakura promised that she would help Naruto get Sasuke back but in the end they all failed as long as it's not Naruto who makes the statement it doesn't mean anything other than what the character wishes at this point in time, this is his manga not Hinata's so there's nothing to fear what we are about to see it's Hinata final development.

Concerning Naruto's feelings there's no reason for him to get over Sakura simply for the fact it doesn't a negative impact on his character, in fact it's the contrary his feelings have been portrayed as selfless and positive and he doesn't revolve around them, he has many other goals outside of his feelings for Sakura and that's why he wouldn't gain anything by getting over her and let's be consistent the one who has the power to change people's feelings is Naruto so he's the one most likely to be able to change Sakura's heart not Hinata and he is the main character.

THIS. Well done, sir, very nice post.

I agree with what you guys have been saying about NS being 'difficult'. It's another obstacle Naruto has to go through; winning Sakura's heart.

NH is too easy/one-sided to become canon, even now.

[luffyq1]

Simply amazing post - people sometimes forget that this is a story, and these sorts of structural arguments regarding the plot, themes, and characterization are far more valid and logical than subjective arguments such as, "X and Y have no chemistry!" or "What about Z's feelings she has a right to be with whomever she/he wants!" or "A and B's personalities just go together!" or "Well if B and C got together, C would always be thinking about A"

I mean honestly, whatever couple gets together in the end is going to be disgustingly happy together - in what world would Kishi have the main couple NOT be happy together?

I fully and completely agree about your analysis of Naruto's love for Sakura, and the struggle that its supposed to represent for his character. As I've said elsewhere, Kishi specifically wants to depict the "resulting complications and....difficult relationships." As you've so artfully laid out, Naruto and Hinata's relationship has no complications, nor is it a difficult relationship by any stretch of the imagination. There was plenty more room for such things (such as by showing Hinata worrying over Naruto's love for Sakura, for example), but Kishimoto chose to go the simple route with this relationship.

This also represents a personal belief of mine, and matches perfectly with a quote in my sig from NF:

Nothing worthwhile is simple because things, both material and not, gain value through effort and struggle. Simple and easy is replaceable and that strips the meaning from it.

Naruto never had to earn or struggle for Hinata's love - it was always there from the minute she was introduced. Naruto's character has never been about having things just handed to him or having them simply fall into his lap. He's had to work hard for everything he's gotten - even though Kurama was "handed" to him by his father, he had to overcome his own buried hatred before facing him head on in a battle he nearly lost, and then he had to earn his friendship by continuing to have the willpower to resist Kurama's offers to "easy" power, and by being willing to understand and help Kurama in the first place. He had to even earn Jiraiya as a teacher.

So I completely and fully agree that Hinata winning over Naruto's heart would just not seem to fit in with Kishi's presentation of Naruto's character at all.

This as well I fully agree with, and it boggles me just as much to run into this argument. I have actually been mocked for bringing up the fact that as the main character, Naruto's wants and desires take precedence over Hinata's. Naruto is the original underdog, and just because he's achieved a lot of what he set out to do by now doesn't change the fact that he is still an underdog in other arenas.

People seem to be of the opinion that Naruto's love was never presented as seriously as the girls' feelings, and that drives me up a wall, because Naruto has literally done practically everything the girls' have done to express his romantic love. Blushing, smiling, being willing to risk death to protect, wanting to impress, wanting to spend time with, being encouraging, being thankful, worrying over, admiring, etc. The only things Naruto hasn't done is cry over Sakura (which is understandable given that he's never thought Sakura was dead), or hug Sakura himself (rather than her hugging him). And people completely disregard that Naruto has done something huge that the girls' haven't done for their love interests, which is being willing to emotionally sacrifice for years for Sakura, by placing her feelings before his own in order to make her happy. There is not a single instance of Sakura doing this with Sasuke (though she tried at the summit, by being willing to kill him to save him, but ultimately her own feelings took precedence there; also, Sakura told Sasuke during her confession that revenge wouldn't make him happy, and then she asked her to take him with her to help with that revenge - that shows that what was important to Sakura there was her own feelings, not Sasuke's well being), and not a single instance of Hinata doing this with Naruto (in fact, she's specifically acted selfishly in her romantic love).

And Sakura has reflected this selflessness in her affections to Naruto (the summit being a large example).

Further, Naruto has shown how it emotionally pains him for Sakura to love Sasuke (hospital scene, POAL, 453), and Sakura's shown comical jealousy when Ino was hanging over Sasuke and Hinata was smiling with some emphasized silece - far less extreme reactions than Naruto's.

So it baffles me that just because his feelings for Sakura haven't been brought up in 150 or so chapters, that means his feelings are less for it, or that they must have changed off panel (when Kishi proved with Sakura's feelings for Sasuke that no one's feelings are going to change off panel).

Sorry, kind of went off on a side tangent there But ultimately, I agree - Kishi hasn't shown any struggle in the NaruHina relationship, and given Hinata no struggle concerning the fact that Naruto loves Sakura. The second option also seems to be the most likely, given what he has shown us thus far.

I think I'm in love

[ultranx]

I'm starting to think a lot of nh fans either didn't pay attention much to anime/manga or are noobs to them because all that hitting Sakura does to Naruto, it happens in just about all anime/manga. This pretty much shows that lol http://ultranx2010.d...fset=0#/d5mop91

[redragon88]

Given that Tsunade explicitly stated that only medic-nins that know how the use the Creation Rebirth technique (the one with markings that cover the body) are allowed to break the 3 Medic-nin rules (which basically says that medic-nins should stay away from the front lines), do you think it's possible for Sakura to surprise everyone by showing that she has learned the technique as well?

In a reasonable world it should make sense to show Sakura finally surpassing or at least equaling Tsunade in abilities. She already knows her medic ninja skills and her chakra control super strength, so the next logical step would be for her to use that particular technique. Of course there's the possibility that Kishi isn't interested in doing so, that's why I said in a reasonable world it would happen.

I don't want to set myself up for disappointment so I won't be expecting her to do it, but when I think about it it would make a lot of sense for her to master that technique. Given that Creation Rebirth seems to be Tsunade's signature technique to would be great if Sakura showed a somewhat improved version of it that she managed to develop. It would be reminiscent to how Jiraiya's signature jutsu was an incomplete version of Sage Mode and afterwards Naruto managed to developed to complete version in order to fight Pain.

Of course there's the issue that since Sakura doesn't appear to have a diamond marking in her forehead that it's not gonna happen anytime soon. Although if it was meant to be a surprise then maybe the diamond marking could be somewhere else in her body, like her back or upper chest. It would be something if Sakura would rip a little of the top of her shirt only to reveal that she has the diamond marking just below her neck. Or maybe she wouldn't need any previous markings anywhere if she would actually use an improved version.

I just bring it up because given that in her speech on her way to Naruto she said that they would be together I would find it weird if she just sticks to healing in the back the whole time. And yet, there's the sudden introduction of Tsunade's rules about medic-nins that make it look as if Sakura would do just that. In one of the databooks it says that Tsundade developed the technique for the sake of protecting her comrades, so it would only be fitting for Sakura to do so as well in order to be able to protect Naruto with her abilities.

Of course this is all just wishful thinking and I'm not gonna try to hope for that to happen since it would be disappointing then to never see it come to pass. For now I'll just stick to expecting they all fight together with no particular spotlight on anyone.