8048 replies to this topic

[rocci]

@fy
Isn't that statement come from the sbs long before marine ford arc happen?
In part 1 I agree but now I will say that usop is stronger than her.

[FoolishYoungling]

In number only, Usopp is weaker than her by far. Nami and Chopper have well surpassed him. The fact that you actually said that is more of a testament to your fanboyism than backing up anything Oda said.

Usopp has haki, and Nami doesn't. Come on man... You're calling Nami MUCH stronger based off of what? We haven't even seen her in a big fight in years now. Oda said current Usopp is at pre-timeskip Zoro level. You remember how freakishly strong he was back then? Nami is only a few inches stronger than that, and you have no proof to say otherwise. And without Usopp, Nami would still have a freaking stick right now...

 

And no, when the guy said Tashigi was based off a flightless bird that would take flight, he meant she had a lot of power-ups coming her way. A bird that can't fly isn't going to do much, but when it can fly, it "takes off" so to speak. Think about it man. Smoker is going to be around Zoro's level in the end of OP, so how is his right hand woman going to be far behind him? You really think Oda is putting Tashigi in every arc to be useless in the last few arcs instead of being major? That's like saying Killer or Bepo won't be really powerful in the end.

@fy
Isn't that statement come from the sbs long before marine ford arc happen?
In part 1 I agree but now I will say that usop is stronger than her.

I don't know exactly when he said it, but he said "Usopp will always be the weakest in the group." By saying always, he implied that he wouldn't surpass Nami, Chopper, or any newcomers. He'll grow and become much stronger, but as Nami and Chopper do the same, he won't surpass them.

[hinataiscreepy]

I also think the order of the strength is Robin > Tashigi > Nami, as you were saying. Right now, Robin is the 4th strongest on the Straw Hats. Nami is the 7th or 8th. While I know a huge increase of power is coming for Tashigi based off her position in the series, and what Oda said about her; I still can't see her surpassing Robin in the end of the series. Robin freaking called Cavendish, one of the fastest characters we've seen yet, slow. I think Robin will be the second strongest woman ever in the OP world, right behind Big Mom.

 

Tashigi actually has  haki and soru which is a huge improvement which is something Robin doesn't even have at the moment.  I do recall Robin getting hurt by Monet and she would not even be in a position to hurt her unlike Tashigi. I don't know... Oda so far has not really defined her strength in the food chain. In addition, I was sorta let down by her lack of fighting in dressrossa.  Robin's purpose is not to be the strongest but finding true history.

[AHK]

Usopp has haki, and Nami doesn't. Come on man... You're calling Nami MUCH stronger based off of what? We haven't even seen her in a big fight in years now. Oda said current Usopp is at pre-timeskip Zoro level. You remember how freakishly strong he was back then? Nami is only a few inches stronger than that, and you have no proof to say otherwise. And without Usopp, Nami would still have a freaking stick right now...
 
And no, when the guy said Tashigi was based off a flightless bird that would take flight, he meant she had a lot of power-ups coming her way. A bird that can't fly isn't going to do much, but when it can fly, it "takes off" so to speak. Think about it man. Smoker is going to be around Zoro's level in the end of OP, so how is his right hand woman going to be far behind him? You really think Oda is putting Tashigi in every arc to be useless in the last few arcs instead of being major? That's like saying Killer or Bepo won't be really powerful in the end.

I don't know exactly when he said it, but he said "Usopp will always be the weakest in the group." By saying always, he implied that he wouldn't surpass Nami, Chopper, or any newcomers. He'll grow and become much stronger, but as Nami and Chopper do the same, he won't surpass them.

What good is Usopp having haki if he can't control it? It doesn't matter that he has it, he used it once out of blind luck. Thus far he can't control it at will. He's not stronger than Nami, she'd beat him every time. And no, Nami could have made herself a weapon, the weapon she was carrying prior was one of her own making. Nice try though. And for reference, that still has nothing to do her strength.

Your Tashigi quote is incredibly subjective. You literally have zero idea what Oda meant by that, and you're twisting it to fit an image of Tashigi you have in your head. There is zero evidence that suggests she will become as strong as you think she will be. Just think for a second about wh you said. You said that she will grow almost as much as Luffy, someone who has the standing of kings, who will conquer the four emperors, conquer the grand line, become the king of pirates, and be the center of the final war in the series. Tashigi will not become even remotely close to that, not matter how many Oda quotes you take out of context.

[luffyq1]

You see the way Robin grabbed his balls? Franky knows not to mess with that woman. And as for Nami, Oda already said Usopp will always be the weakest in the crew. Tashigi already knows haki, so she would probably overpower Nami. Not to mention Tashigi already has almost as much room to grow as Smoker and Luffy, considering what Oda said about her future.

dude, tashigi won't be near luffy's strength. tashigi has "much room to grow" as far as her potential can take her. that in no way means she's going to be as strong as luffy or smoker. 

[FoolishYoungling]

What good is Usopp having haki if he can't control it? It doesn't matter that he has it, he used it once out of blind luck. Thus far he can't control it at will. He's not stronger than Nami, she'd beat him every time. And no, Nami could have made herself a weapon, the weapon she was carrying prior was one of her own making. Nice try though. And for reference, that still has nothing to do her strength.

Your Tashigi quote is incredibly subjective. You literally have zero idea what Oda meant by that, and you're twisting it to fit an image of Tashigi you have in your head. There is zero evidence that suggests she will become as strong as you think she will be. Just think for a second about wh you said. You said that she will grow almost as much as Luffy, someone who has the standing of kings, who will conquer the four emperors, conquer the grand line, become the king of pirates, and be the center of the final war in the series. Tashigi will not become even remotely close to that, not matter how many Oda quotes you take out of context.

You said "Nami is far stronger than Usopp" and I told you that Nami was only slightly stronger. Then I told you how strong Oda said Usopp is currently, and you couldn't glorify Nami to an extent that surpassed pre-timeskip Zoro by "far." I said that Usopp will always be the weakest, which puts Nami above him. However, to say Nami is FAR stronger than pre-timeskip Zoro as of this moment right now, is wrong.

As for what he said about Tashigi, the fan literally asked about her development. What else would he mean by a bird taking off? He made her the underdog on purpose, and we know how strong underdogs are in the end. And why are you and Luffyq1 taking me out of context? If Luffy grows stronger, he'll be the strongest. However, there are plenty of characters not as strong as Luffy that will grow just as much, or slightly less than him. Since they are below him now, they can't surpass him growing JUST as much.

 

I'll ask again. You think Oda would make a character appear in every arc to be useless in the end? Right hand men and women of the strongest players in the New World will be extremely strong. That includes Killer, Bepo, Tashigi, Zoro, and so on. Obviously with Zoro above any other right hand out there.

 

We've seen 5 marines in the manga show signs of going against the marines, thus helping Luffy in the end. They are: Fujitora, Smoker, Coby, Tashigi, and Hina. All 5 of these characters should be top 50 all-timers in strength at the end of the series. Well, maybe not Hina. We'll see. I guess Helmeppo would be with Coby, but he won't be stronger than Hina.

[hinataiscreepy]

To make it short I would say that One Piece always had a positive outlook on life about making the most impossible dreams possible. That's the whole point of Luffy meeting Coby. The MC literally turns the weakest looking man into a badass who is bound to become an  admiral and a wiser person that stands up to what he believes no matter the odds. I remember boy repeatedly telling Luffy that becoming PK was literally impossible which was contrasted to Luffy's unbreakable determination that affected Coby's whole existence.

 

It would seem naiive that a kind hearted underdog such as Tashigi would remain forever weak which would be a total contradiction to what One Piece stands for philosophically. I mean she is clearly seeking to be among the top tiers . I think AHK's bias against Tashigi makes him blind to the positive messages of the series.  If Oda comes and says that Tashigi is always at the end of the story and being a baby maker... It would come out as extremely sexist.

 

Personally, I think its easier to root for underdogs like Usopp, Coby, and Tashigi cause they always have to prove something and its more satisfying when they succeed unlike characters like Law who were already acknowledged as badasses from start to finish. Its a whole lot more compelling  from a character development point of view. I can hardly root for a character that is already acknowledged as a badass with the fanbase and the story when he had almost no character development or bond that is as appealing like LUNA to deserve that much promotion and love.

[luffyq1]

And why are you and Luffyq1 taking me out of context? If Luffy grows stronger, he'll be the strongest. However, there are plenty of characters not as strong as Luffy that will grow just as much, or slightly less than him. Since they are below him now, they can't surpass him growing JUST as much.

no, there won't be plenty of characters that will grow just as much as luffy, it defeats the purpose of having tiers in the series. luffy has to continue to grow in order to become pk, you're really downplaying how much growth luffy will need in order to achieve that dream. it's by far the hardest thing to accomplish in one piece. that is why there won't be plenty of characters that will grow just as much as luffy. 

 

It would seem naiive that a kind hearted underdog such as Tashigi would remain forever weak which would be a total contradiction to what One Piece stands for philosophically. I mean she is clearly seeking to be among the top tiers . I think AHK's bias against Tashigi makes him blind to the positive messages of the series.  If Oda comes and says that Tashigi is always at the end of the story and being a baby maker... It would come out as extremely sexist.

 

Personally, I think its easier to root for underdogs like Usopp, Coby, and Tashigi cause they always have to prove something and its more satisfying when they succeed unlike characters like Law who were already acknowledged as badasses from start to finish. Its a whole lot more compelling  from a character development point of view. I can hardly root for a character that is already acknowledged as a badass with the fanbase and the story when he had almost no character development or bond that is as appealing like LUNA to deserve that much promotion and love.

no one is saying that she'll remain weak forever. you guys keep propping her up like she'll be in the upper class with the likes of luffy, zoro, or sanji. law fodderized her without even trying. she'll become strong obviously, but she'll never be in their league.

 

ahk doesn't hate tashigi. i personally think she's just another boring marine that adds nothing to the story, that doesn't mean i hate her too. 

Edited by luffyq1, 13 April 2016 - 11:24 PM.

[AHK]

^@hinataiscreepy First if all, I don't have a bias against Tashigi. I literally don't care about Tashigi. The difference between us is that I'm not going to sit around and lick her feet because you and FY think I should. The only thing the two of you have said is a bunch of propaganda about what you think she should be, despite there being zero evidence to support your claims. FY even said that she would grow just as much as Luffy will, yet I'm the biased one? He compared her growth to the man that will, in essence, conquer the world, and I'm the one that's biased? Seriously?

Also, maybe you meant this on purpose, maybe not, but right after you named me in your post, you went on to talk about baby makers and sexism as if I've ever alluded to that (which is what you make it seem like, to me at least). If that was some kind of subtle shot against me, as if because I don't bow to Tashigi so I must think she's just going to be a walking womb at the end of the series, then you're incredibly wrong for that, because I've never, ever suggested such, and it's incredibly insulting to even be slightly associated with it. No, I don't like Tashigi. No, I don't care about Tashigi. No, I don't think that Tashigi will live up to the ridiculous pedestal that FY has placed her on. But that doesn't mean I think she's going to be just some end-of-series baby maker like everyone in Naruto was. We don't have to agree, I don't have to like Tashigi, and just because I don't agree with you, or like Tashigi, it doesn't mean I'm sexist.

@FY, Usopp in no way is as strong as pre-time skip Zoro, Oda never said that. Nami is definitely stronger than Usopp, all things considered.

No, Luffyq1 and I aren't taking you out of context. There is no way Tashigi, who in the end really doesn't matter at all, has the growth curve of Luffy going forward. Which is what you said.

Just to be nitpicky, Garp and Aokiji are marines that helped Luffy. So you're wrong about there being only 5.

Edited by AHK, 13 April 2016 - 11:50 PM.

[FoolishYoungling]

no, there won't be plenty of characters that will grow just as much as luffy, it defeats the purpose of having tiers in the series. luffy has to continue to grow in order to become pk, you're really downplaying how much growth luffy will need in order to achieve that dream. it's by far the hardest thing to accomplish in one piece. that is why there won't be plenty of characters that will grow just as much as luffy. 

 

no one is saying that she'll remain weak forever. you guys keep propping her up like she'll be in the upper class with the likes of luffy, zoro, or sanji. law fodderized her without even trying. she'll become strong obviously, but she'll never be in their league.

 

ahk doesn't hate tashigi. i personally think she's just another boring marine that adds nothing to the story, that doesn't mean i hate her too. 

I don't think you realize how strong Law and Kid need to grow to surpass the current emperors, or how much Zoro has to develop to beat Mihawk (and maybe even stronger enemies). Every supernova still needs to grow just as much, if not at least a little less than Luffy. They were given the name "Worst generation" for a reason. Expect every supernova to be a top 50 all-timer. No that doesn't mean Bonney or Kid will grow as much as Luffy, but they will grow slightly less than him at least.

 

If they do that much, then they can be near or at emperor level. Luffy growing as much as he will is going to make him Pirate King. And let's not forget that Luffy in Fourth Gear (his current max strength) would absolutely wreck every supernova. Law and Kid (the next two stronger supernova) stand no chance to him in that form. The other supernova stand even less chance than those two guys. If they don't grow at least 3x stronger each, they won't be seen as New World top-dogs. That also goes for every Straw Hat too.

 

Just to be nitpicky, Garp and Aokiji are marines that helped Luffy. So you're wrong about there being only 5.

Well, I don't know how I forgot Aokiji, but Garp is a little too far up there in my opinion.

 

To end this, I agree with what hinataiscreepy said about the underdog thing. It makes 0 percent sense for a genius like Oda to not finish the underdog story with Tashigi.

[luffyq1]

I don't think you realize how strong Law and Kid need to grow to surpass the current emperors, or how much Zoro has to develop to beat Mihawk (and maybe even stronger enemies). Every supernova still needs to grow just as much, if not at least a little less than Luffy. They were given the name "Worst generation" for a reason. Expect every supernova to be a top 50 all-timer. No that doesn't mean Bonney or Kid will grow as much as Luffy, but they will grow slightly less than him at least.

 

If they do that much, then they can be near or at emperor level. Luffy growing as much as he will is going to make him Pirate King. And let's not forget that Luffy in Fourth Gear (his current max strength) would absolutely wreck every supernova. Law and Kid (the next two stronger supernova) stand no chance to him in that form. The other supernova stand even less chance than those two guys. If they don't grow at least 3x stronger each, they won't be seen as New World top-dogs. That also goes for every Straw Hat too.

actually kidd will most likely grow just as much as luffy since his dream is to become the pk too. characters that have huge goals will require them to have to grow as much. we don't even know how powerful kidd is, so i'm not going to assume that luffy in gear four would roll over every supernova. i'll agree that law would be defeated by luffy in gear 4, but i'm not going to say the same for kidd. 

 

new chapter was good. revolutionary base was destroyed, and vivi is holding out on luffy to become her husband.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Good luck with that, Vivi.

[luffyq1]

give kaido a carrot and watch carrot defeat him.

[TouKen4Life3g]

give kaido a carrot and watch carrot defeat him.

I'll demand a figure, poster, petition to put her in that new game coming really soon, and I'll have my set based on her for the rest of my lifespan.

[Sakura~]

I am not caught up yet, but reading this thread is fun.

[AHK]

Nami making Luffy a banquet? the tidbit about Baltigo was pretty huge, also the revelation about Cobra's intentions. Nami flipping out at Luffy was hilarious XD

I am not caught up yet, but reading this thread is fun.

What chapter are you on?

[rocci]

Oda deliver once again.

[Sakura~]

@AHK .. I am at Marineford arc. I know I am way behind but I've been spoiled a lot about the upcoming events :(

[RedFaction]

Excellent chapter.

 

I certainly wasn't expecting us to get all this Reverie stuff so soon with all the other stuff that's going on, but Oda somehow managed to fit it all in.

 

FY will probably love this chapter just for the hint of Luffy x Vivi.

[AHK]

@AHK .. I am at Marineford arc. I know I am way behind but I've been spoiled a lot about the upcoming events :(

  
Have fun with that arc lol

Excellent chapter.
 
I certainly wasn't expecting us to get all this Reverie stuff so soon with all the other stuff that's going on, but Oda somehow managed to fit it all in.
 
FY will probably love this chapter just for the hint of Luffy x Vivi.

Except there wasn't one...