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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#5621 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:16 PM

I guess he had played a role in it  all , but he did train her and failing is her own fault , Naruto failed the academy 3 times did he stop believing or training ? Sakura has a large forehead not to mention this is a body trait that someone will poke fun with it on first sight and its stuck there , b-but Ino and Sasuke(Naruto) kind of fixed that ( i guess HInata should take notes from Ino and Naruto).

Life is hard though not only that its rotten sometimes , but then we have a friend/lover to make things differently , if we are alone and there is no one to help us well , we have to help ourselfs .
I agree she has reverted , i hope too that its only temporary otherwise .. yeah ..

 

Dunno , really ^^ how could he even ? ^^

 

 

:P :smug:

Well i dont think so, no one pokes fun at Sakura about her forehead, i mean on her early childhood it was an issue, but now since the part 1 is just her main insecurity.

I wont say it was fixed because i strongly believe she has insecurities about her forehead, which Naruto will fix that  :smug:.


Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 12 August 2013 - 06:17 PM.

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#5622 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:30 PM

...You did it without me?!



#5623 James S Cassidy

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:33 PM

...You did it without me?!

No, this is just a random video of a thought I had


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#5624 Superman333

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:41 PM

...You did it without me?!

 

 

No, this is just a random video of a thought I had

is NaruHina a forced pairing .? Is that even a question that requires a response .? 


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#5625 James S Cassidy

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:43 PM

 

 

is NaruHina a forced pairing .? Is that even a question that requires a response .? 

It's more along the lines of because it is a forced pairing is the reason why it won't happen and what I think NH fans needs to take into an account. If you have to force romance for it to happen, then the pairing won't happen at all. It should be a natural progression.


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#5626 Superman333

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:47 PM

It's more along the lines of because it is a forced pairing is the reason why it won't happen and what I think NH fans needs to take into an account. If you have to force romance for it to happen, then the pairing won't happen at all. It should be a natural progression.

Kishi would have to be the leader of trolls to do something like that . 


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#5627 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:53 PM

No, this is just a random video of a thought I had

I was just messing with ya. To me, I see it as a bonus pairing for fans to create fanfic on it.

#5628 Inferno180

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:02 PM

With all this NS NH debate stuff, one argument the western fandom tends to use for NH is how the Kushina final words were translated, don't fall for the first one you see, though its better to try and see the accurate translation rather than replaced dialogue, this brought me to something funny.

 

In the Viz version of 573 where Hinata states to hold Naruto's hand she says this: I'll stand with you holding your hand and walk by your side." Now isn't it funny how we can make a similar claim against NH saying this is nothing romantic intended by the Viz translation now considering how short 615 lasted and she was only stating an action she wanted to do and not a romantic thing like the orginal translation may have interpreted? Even in that translation where she says she will stop chasing Naruto? This makes it funny on both ends to a degree, we can now make a claim of Hinata no longer following Naruto or she didn't have that intent in 573 considering what came about in 615, even then how 633 she focuses on that memory to finish the 64 palms, its now standing by Naruto rather than romantic intent. See the process? Hinata said for something to happen, she got to hold his hand and stand by his side, now thats over. Hey if NH makes crazy claims with Viz translations over Kushina (which has a basis now from 631) we can do that too with stuff like this.



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#5629 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:07 PM

I feel making a reply video on that video.

#5630 James S Cassidy

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:17 PM

I feel making a reply video on that video.

If you want. Go for it.


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#5631 Inferno180

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:18 PM

If you want. Go for it.

 

Nice video, basically stuff I have been saying all this time, not just me, most of us.



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#5632 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:18 PM

If you want. Go for it.

You know, how is it that you don't get in trouble using panels but I did?

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 12 August 2013 - 07:19 PM.


#5633 James S Cassidy

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:25 PM

 

Nice video, basically stuff I have been saying all this time, not just me, most of us.

....what's that supposed to mean?

 

 

You know, how is it that you don't get in trouble using panels but I did?

 

You know, I have been asking this question to several chapter review videos I have seen on youtube. Including one of own our other chapter reviewer who uses panels and not gets in trouble.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 12 August 2013 - 07:28 PM.

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#5634 T XD

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:26 PM

Hinata is a simple side character who is characterized as being shy, likes the hero and have stuttering issue. I see that with many manga and anime who has a side character or main character like that, but mostly side characters. I think these characters are created to have someone who likes the hero from the beginning. 

 

or I have been thinking , before the fight with Sasuke , Sakura will be worried about Naruto and him dying like he said to Sasuke . Then Naruto will assure her everything will be okay and give her a kiss on the forehead and say what he said back to her in chapter 3 . Then Naruto will smile and walk off to the battle or to prepare . That will give Sakura a realization , that Naruto is the one for her the whole time , and then she might realize that she is in love with him . Then after the battle , Sakura will be crying over Naruto , they may hug , but most of all they will kiss lip to lip . 

Don't know if she'll bring up them dying thing, but it's very possible. I think there will be few NS moments happening before the final fight begins, and anything can be said. 

 

The kiss lip to lip, it may very well happen considering there was two times that two characters were about to lip lock. But, he can do that with Naruto and Sakura too, a scene about them almost kissing and it's cut. Or, he can make a kiss on the cheek from Sakura or Naruto then them holding hands. No kiss on the lips. I didn't think much about that, but it's going to be one of those three options or something close.

 

I know. I can imagine him going ramen shop, being so happy, he hugs the guy and probably have them commenting, "Is he ok? I thought he will be hurt from the war?" Kakashi says, "Sorry for being late" and Naruto will be like, "No worries, sensei. It's a wonderful day. Kakashi will go, "Eh???" Tsunade will give him a D-rank mission and he will be like, "Hell yeah! I'm off!" and Tsunade will be "What the?" Oh man, I can go on, but he should do it. It will be funny.

Please Kishi, let something like this happens. Just for three pages. * Fingers crossed *

 

@ James: Hope this video will reach to some.


Edited by T XD, 12 August 2013 - 07:34 PM.


#5635 sushi.

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:32 PM

James;

I agree that most NH moments are forced - not all of them, but most.

 

A moment that's not forced is the proud failure speech. I think this was a NH moment, but it was also a failure moment. I think Kishi chose Hinata to give the speech for two reasons; 1. She was also a failure, therefore she could relate to him. 2. It was the first time she expressed how much and why she looked up to him.

 

Moments like the confession and 615 is forced. The coincidental requirements NH needs to have a moment are often people getting hurt/killed, character degradation/OOCness, or in best case they need to be cheered up.

 

There are even moments we don't need. I understand from 633, Hinata loved the feeling of Naruto's hand. Did Kishimoto need to make her beat herself up to bring that moment? Unlike 559, she had no reason to doubt herself then.

--

About the confession, I agree. One thing I would like to add is that Hinata said she wouldn't let Pain lay a finger on Naruto. While that is brave words, her actions in the following panels really was subcionsciously suicidal. I still wonder to this day why she confronted Pain on her own. Why didn't she use Katsuyu's info on Pain to make a plan? Why didn't she tell somebody? I also think her reasoning to get in there was wrong. I think she did it because she is in love with him and he is that special person to her, not because he's a comrade or a fellow leaf ninja.

 

I also think it's important to divide Hinata's "confession". In 559, Naruto remembers her sacrifice, not her confession. I don't understand why so many fans say he acknowledged her confession. :umm:

 

Another thing is that it isn't only her confession that is selfish. It's what she did before that too. Tsunade is worn out, many people are either helping others wounded from the Rinne tensei etc. She uses her byakugan to spy on Naruto, it even looks like she is expecting him to get captured, so she can get in there. We have 2-3 panels of her doing this.

 

One argument I think many NH fans are misunderstanding is that "She only cares for Naruto". Of course she doesn't. My take on it is that she cares for others, but she wouldn't go far for them. Giving ointment and bandaging someone isn't enough. This might be ridicoulous, but I have questioned myself if she is jump in front of a bullet/risk her life for someone else than Naruto. Of course she is in the war and ultimatically doing this, but I wish she could express a desire to protect her clan, teammates, Neji..at least she and him shielded eachother in this arc.

 

Lastly about the confession, I want to defend Sakura from people who said she "sat on her ass" or "just watched". She took care of Tsunade, and most importantly she caused the evacuation of the people Naruto was so afraid he had hurt. While he is out defeating villains, she defends his people. That's what she does; She doesn't take lives, she saves lives.

--

I completely agree about the speech in 615. I felt like Naruto's character had to get degraded to Hinata's level so she could raise him up again. One thing I would like to add is how fastphased it was. How easy Naruto got all down and how easy it was to lift his spirits. I would've understood if this was a new message, but when it has been brought up before why is he so deeply touched by it now?

 

I disagree about the handholding, I think it was significant. 633 shows that it was important to Hinata, but volume 64 cover shows that it's important to Kishimoto, romantic or not. Of course it got downplayed in 616, but not to nothing. Just imagine if after Sakura hugged him, everyone else gives him a "buddy hug". That would made me quite disappointed. :sweat:

 

Whether then handholding was romantic or not, it showed two people bonding and facing death together instead of being alone. That doesn't mean Hinata is Naruto's soulmate, she successfully cheered him up because; 1. She was there lol, 2. She could relate to his feelings, because she is also close to Neji. Just like Sakura was able to cheer him up about Sasuke("This time we'll do it together, I'm still with you"), because she is also close to Sasuke. She later got a response that her support in their quest for Sasuke made him happy.

I'll give them that, they both stayed strong for Naruto when he needed help.

 

I don't think the handholding was romantic because whenever someone he likes does something romantic with him, he blushes or looks at them endearingly. We know what Naruto looks like when he is in love.

We can only speculate he made this face when she hugged him too, that is up to interpretation. That's why I don't really care whether he hugged her back or not, it's like he's literally thinking "omg is this for real?"

 

We can also speculate he didn't blush or something because of the tragic context. But when we have nothing else to base on (romantic NS moments are always at the right place and right time..happy times), what can we do? :P

--

NH would've been less forced if Naruto's feelings for Sakura had been portrayed negatively, if NH and Hinata had gotten more development in the beginning of part two. And if Kishi gave us a reason as to why he should be in love with Hinata instead of Sakura, other than the possibility that the latter might not feel the same - which he has thought for years, and it still didn't make him change his mind.

is NaruHina a forced pairing .? Is that even a question that requires a response .? 

Of course it's up to debate.


Edited by sushi., 12 August 2013 - 07:32 PM.

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#5636 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:33 PM

With all this NS NH debate stuff, one argument the western fandom tends to use for NH is how the Kushina final words were translated, don't fall for the first one you see, though its better to try and see the accurate translation rather than replaced dialogue, this brought me to something funny.

 

In the Viz version of 573 where Hinata states to hold Naruto's hand she says this: I'll stand with you holding your hand and walk by your side." Now isn't it funny how we can make a similar claim against NH saying this is nothing romantic intended by the Viz translation now considering how short 615 lasted and she was only stating an action she wanted to do and not a romantic thing like the orginal translation may have interpreted? Even in that translation where she says she will stop chasing Naruto? This makes it funny on both ends to a degree, we can now make a claim of Hinata no longer following Naruto or she didn't have that intent in 573 considering what came about in 615, even then how 633 she focuses on that memory to finish the 64 palms, its now standing by Naruto rather than romantic intent. See the process? Hinata said for something to happen, she got to hold his hand and stand by his side, now thats over. Hey if NH makes crazy claims with Viz translations over Kushina (which has a basis now from 631) we can do that too with stuff like this.

Her statements are always ambiguous, but ends up in friendzone.


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#5637 Inferno180

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:35 PM

....what's that supposed to mean?

 

 

 

You know, I have been asking this question to several chapter review videos I have seen on youtube. Including one of own other chapter reviewer who uses panels and not gets in trouble.

 

Relax, all I'm saying is this is stuff most of us know but the video is still good. Just stuff we have known for a while like NH's big weakness as you said in the video, lack of development and missing elements or building on those things which did occur, similar to stuff I have said before like Kishi had the opportunity to use NH in the past like NS during downtime but he chose NS again and again. I mean like he could have used some of the downtime before the 5 kage summit with Naruto seeing Hinata yet he didn't do that instead focusing on events like NS related like Naruto getting beat to protect Sakura's feelings for hiding Sasuke, then we got 457 and eventually Sai making the big reveal to Sakura. While this stuff occured Hinata went unknown for the longest time only finally getting a build on her pain moment with a short flashback from one of Naruto's clones when he was allowed on the battlefield, stuff like that. Even as late as the short span of 629-631, there again was downtime but Kishi had Minato swoop in and make a big reveal/boost for NS. He left Hinata undone again only giving a more filler like moment with 633. Thats what I am referring too but what is basically said in your video, stuff like this we have known for a while because most fans on this site all look at both Sakura's interaction with Naruto but also Hinata's and we still know not everything with Sakura is more or less good, it still leads to some other events that cause more of a build than NH has done so far. NH is lagging in development, if even a bad event as others would call it like 469 or the land of iron on Sakura did hurt NS in a way, it built up a moment for Sakura's own development in 630 in which she gave the speech to the alliance from her own experience about relying on Naruto. Thats what I'm saying here, NS has all these moments in the manga where NH is severely lagging and others tend to act like they can just gain answers by filling in the blanks or just expect them to spontaneously happen.



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#5638 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:43 PM

 

--

NH would've been less forced if Naruto's feelings for Sakura had been portrayed negatively, if NH and Hinata had gotten more development in the beginning of part two. And if Kishi gave us a reason as to why he should be in love with Hinata instead of Sakura, other than the possibility that the latter might not feel the same - which he has thought for years, and it still didn't make him change his mind.

Of course it's up to debate.

I think it would had been less forced if Kishi showed Naruto having doubts about his love for Sakura, questioning himself and stuff like that.
But rather he accepting that and all the moments where she did some heartbreaking stuff he question himself, example, on the confession scene, he says "but she loves Sasuke too much" but then you think so what? it's like it doesnt affect his love for Sakura, his love is like perfect because nothing of bad she does(which she did) i mean doesnt affect him negatively.

There were some really bad moments for NS on part 1 but none of those affected his love for her, so why now just coz Hinata is there?

I mean just when he is close he suddenly "i dont love her anymore" that's the most rage inducing thing would ever happen on the internet.

 

The second is claims like "Naruto doesnt love Sakura anymore" based on offpanel development.

 

And personally, i would never accept NH after what he did with Neji and 615, i'll nevah forget.


Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 12 August 2013 - 07:49 PM.

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#5639 deviouslyChaotic

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:05 PM

About the confession, I agree. One thing I would like to add is that Hinata said she wouldn't let Pain lay a finger on Naruto. While that is brave words, her actions in the following panels really was subcionsciously suicidal. I still wonder to this day why she confronted Pain on her own. Why didn't she use Katsuyu's info on Pain to make a plan? Why didn't she tell somebody? I also think her reasoning to get in there was wrong. I think she did it because she is in love with him and he is that special person to her, not because he's a comrade or a fellow leaf ninja.

I think it's because she didn't jump into the middle of the fight in order to save Naruto from Pain. Saving Naruto was not her goal. She even said herself that she does not stand a chance against Pain, so why bother jumping in? I believe it's because she doubted Naruto could get out of that specific situation and win the fight. She most likely believed he was going to die there. Her thought process must've been to might as well confess her true feelings to Naruto before he's gone forever.

 

Also, great video James! Your points are so clear, concise, and logical.


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#5640 Sojobo

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:13 PM

NaruHina is forced, I agree with that.

Everytime that there is a NH moment, I have the impression it comes from nowhere. I mean, it could not happen, the story won't change.

NH moments are always so sudden.

 

Anyway, Cassy did explain it perfectly.

Here is some good NS video, it explain everything how it will become canon :

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=WKfmHxJgb6Q

 

In my opinion, NH died the time when Minato said that Sakura is like his woman.

I mean, it's so obvious what Kishi is trying to do by letting Minato says she looks like his woman, while his woman said that she would like her son finding a girl like her.






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