687 replies to this topic

[Nostradamus]

the Part of "I understand" and "I agree" I think it's not so complicated, let's use this example

Random person: I think all SS fans are aggressive and bad people because I was seriously insulted for not thinking like them

You understand?

NS: I do, I understand what you're saying but there are some nice SS fans

It's not complicated at all. The thing is this wasn't something that we expected from Naruto. I know Naruto worships the ground that Sasuke walks on for absolutely no reason. But to fault out understand/agree with Sasuke's statement is cold, especially in front of Sakura.

I mean why didn't he just say "You know Sasuke, I understand Sakura-chan and Kakashi-sensei aren't a match for Kaguya but even so they can still help us. Remember Team Dysfunctional is the best team out there" ? How hard can it be? 

[FireFox]

It's not complicated at all. The thing is this wasn't something that we expected from Naruto. I know Naruto worships the ground that Sasuke walks on for absolutely no reason. But to fault out understand/agree with Sasuke's statement is cold, especially in front of Sakura.

I mean why didn't he just say "You know Sasuke, I understand Sakura-chan and Kakashi-sensei aren't a match for Kaguya but even so they can still help us. Remember Team Dysfunctional is the best team out there" ? How hard can it be? 

And this is were the problem lies , this was not the context of that scene it wasn't about Sakura or Kakashi being useful or useless  the context was Naruto superiority & sacrifice because he is the other half of the power that can seal Kaguya and as such he shouldn't risk his life for them Kakashi and Sakura or for anyone for that matter . This is why you see Naruto's face first shocked and then angry pissed at what Sasuke just said  because he understand what Sasuke meant but did not agree with it  and then later when giving his response to him you see his mocking facial expression in short Naruto here disagreed with Sasuke's POV that he should sacrifice himself for them this was the context not whether Sakura and Kakashi are being useful .

 

But here is another If Sakura was so hurt by Naruto words that he was agreeing with Sasuke and wasn't just a misunderstanding like you guys are implaying (like the panels later shows ) then why didn't she included Naruto also when she said that Sasuke is right ? I mean why not Naruto also didn't he agreed with Sasuke according to you guys ? Also i find it very very hard to believe that Sakura would have tanked him just because he still wants to save her even if he agrees that she's useless this is just ridiculous and you can't just make a distinction between the whole speech of Naruto because she tanked him in general for everything that Naruto said .

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 14 June 2014 - 10:35 PM.

[Nostradamus]

@Firefox Sorry but I still see that scene as Sasuke telling Naruto the truth, that Sakura and Kakashi are useless in this battle so saving them is meaningless and the only reason they're not in the Infinite Tsukuyomi is because they were standing next to Naruto. And Naruto agreeing with Sasuke that Sakura and Kakashi are useless. But even if they're useless Naruto will still save them even if Sasuke told him that Sakura and Kakashi are dead weight.

The way I see it is a nice contrast between Naruto and Sasuke. Sasuke would sacrifice everyone if it means he'll achieve what he wants and completes the mission. While Naruto will put his friends above the mission and would sacrifice himself if it means his friends will live.

[JILLNYN]

xD well after 28 pages after no one will change their perspective about that conversation I guess.

[Nostradamus]

xD well after 28 pages after no one will change their perspective about that conversation I guess.

Nope.

[FireFox]

@Firefox Sorry but I still see that scene as Sasuke telling Naruto the truth, that Sakura and Kakashi are useless in this battle so saving them is meaningless and the only reason they're not in the Infinite Tsukuyomi is because they were standing next to Naruto. And Naruto agreeing with Sasuke that Sakura and Kakashi are useless. But even if they're useless Naruto will still save them even if Sasuke told him that Sakura and Kakashi are dead weight.

The way I see it is a nice contrast between Naruto and Sasuke. Sasuke would sacrifice everyone if it means he'll achieve what he wants and completes the mission. While Naruto will put his friends above the mission and would sacrifice himself if it means his friends will live.

I understand what you mean but still that wasn't the context he wasn't telling him that he only told him that He is the reason why they are here this is what Naruto understand . Also  Naruto didn't necessarily agree in here Naruto at best in here only agreed that he's superior because he has the full moon or sun to Sasuke's moon LOL XD   But not that they are useless acknowledging that you are superior doesn't mean the others are useless . Its like Me for example acknowledging that I'm  superior to my friend because i'm the manager(hold a higher position ) in the company we work but does that mean that he's useless ? Most definitely not .

 

I still can't see how him understanding means that he's agreeing and this is not the only factor that goes against this notion there are more that you guys are discarding them  but i agree with @JILLNYN no one is changing anybody's opinion in here so lets call it a day .

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 15 June 2014 - 12:04 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I understand what you mean but still that wasn't the context he wasn't telling him that he only told him that He is the reason why they are here this is what Naruto understand . Also  Naruto didn't necessarily agree in here Naruto at best in here only agreed that he's superior because he has the full moon or sun to Sasuke's moon LOL XD   But not that they are useless acknowledging that you are superior doesn't mean the others are useless . Its like Me for example acknowledging that I'm  superior to my friend because i'm the manager(hold a higher position ) in the company we work but does that mean that he's useless ? Most definitely not .
 
I still can't see how him understanding means that he's agreeing and this is not the only factor that goes against this notion there are more that you guys are discarding them  but i agree with @JILLNYN no one is changing anybody's opinion in here so lets call it a day .

NarutoFireFox that was really the context, the context is two aspects.
Sasuke telling Naruto that Sakura and Naruto aren't usefull and then telling him that because of this he should not worry about protecting Sakura and Kakashi.
Naruto said he understood but he's not going to let them die.

She gets depressed at Naruto "agreeing" with Sasuke about her usefullness.
If you have any doubts, Sakura confirms this otherwise there was no reason for her to had agreed with Sasuke.

>Rooney
Thank you for all the goals you scored in world cups.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 15 June 2014 - 12:42 AM.

[Nostradamus]

@Firefox Agreed let's move along.

 

Question to all of you. If Hamura makes his/her appearance and gives Sakura a free power-up, what would your reaction be?

Keep in mind that Hamura giving Sakura a power-up is plausible and possible. And it's the only way she's reach Naruto and Sasuke's level.

[JILLNYN]

I understand you guys BUT I disagree

 

1.-first Naruto saying that Kakashi is amazing!

2.-Here Sasuke explaining to Naruto that Kakashi could save others

3.-Sasuke saying , that he should not distracted to save Sakura and Kakashi, that they both are key to seal Kaguya that if one of them dies the world will end and tells him that if they was saved during the IT is because Naruto want

Here Naruto is angry that Sasuke does not care about protecting the lives of the rest of Team 7

here Sakura is depressed by reaffirming that Sasuke does not care about anyone and she enter consciousness that their lifes of those two is vital to save everyone and Naruto can not distract saving them, so Sasuke's sacrifice all team 7.

When Sasuke says Your understand? (All situation)

Naruto says I do ...

(Sakura shock here because she thinks that Naruto understands that and this will mean that he will sacrifice all team 7 like Sasuke and act  cold like him)

Naruto then says I understand what you're saying but my body moves by itself

(To use own Sasuke words  when he protected Naruto on the bridge but ruin the victory in their fight)

So the Naruto answer is great, because it makes a dent in the deep of Sasuke, the handles so that Sasuke understands that Naruto need to protect his loved ones with the same Sasuke cold words and that's why Sakura looks So shocked for the coldness of the reply of Naruto, because at that moment Naruto is imitating Sasuke

Edited by JILLNYN, 15 June 2014 - 01:32 AM.

[Gojira]

Sakura is not reaching Naruto and Sasuke's level, he'll they still have one more power-up to go after Kaguya's beaten.

[redrose3443]

I would be glad to know Sakura would get some action, prove Sasuke wrong, and feel better. The boys have had such an unfair advantage over Sakura since forever, that I would not care how much of an @sspull it would be for her to get a power up. kitten the haters.

[luffyq1]

@Firefox Agreed let's move along.

 

Question to all of you. If Hamura makes his/her appearance and gives Sakura a free power-up, what would your reaction be?

Keep in mind that Hamura giving Sakura a power-up is plausible and possible. And it's the only way she's reach Naruto and Sasuke's level.

I'd be a hypocrite if I said I liked it after my complaints for NaruSasu power-up, but I'd be biased considering she's my fav character and deserves much relevancy. But if she does get a power-up I want there to be a different way she achieves it, whether it being on par with NaruSasu or not. 

[Shadow1275]

Just because you don't SEE her using someones nerves to paralyze them doesn't mean she can't.

Better to ask yourself this; WHEN did she need to do that? the answer; Never. Sakura has not been up against a human opponent in the manga since forever. Madara doesn't count. 

So, again who was she supposed to use those skills against? Zetsu? the Jubi? Sasori? None of those make any sense. Doesn't mean she CAN'T do it, it means she hasn't had to. 

Again, " i understand" is not "I agree." I understand means "Yea I get that you think that, and maybe they can't do anything RIGHT HERE or RIGHT NOW, but in the grand scheme of things, no I don't agree."

So you think that Naruto thinks Sakura's weak and useless? Okay, well you're wrong because it contradicts canon statements he's made. It would go against his character for him to find Sakura to be weak and useless when all he's ever done is admire her. So that's all that needs to be said. 

Are you a reader that needs to be hand held through everything a character is thinking/feeling, or are you a reader who can infer from the situation, from expressions and commonsense to figure out whats going on? If you are the second, you don't need scenes with Sakura thinking "Oh I feel really useless" you can TELL that's how she feels because you know her character and you know whats going on and you know that she's upset.

 Again, what the hell is she supposed to be doing? there is nothing she CAN DO. 

 

Just because you don't SEE her using someones nerves to paralyze them doesn't mean she can't.

 

Weak argument, it doesn't imply that she can either

 

Better to ask yourself this; WHEN did she need to do that? the answer; Never. Sakura has not been up against a human opponent in the manga since forever. Madara doesn't count.

 

Except for the Kumo ninja who attacked her after pain was defeated, Sasuke when she was trying to kill him, Lee, Sai, and Kiba.

 

Again, " i understand" is not "I agree." I understand means "Yea I get that you think that, and maybe they can't do anything RIGHT HERE or RIGHT NOW, but in the grand scheme of things, no I don't agree."

 

Well then why doesn't he say that? Naruto has defended Sakura's abilities before. But the problem is that instead of disagreeing with Sasuke he specifically says but sometimes my body moves on its own which I already proved means that he acknowledges uselessness but will still save them bc he cares. Srry but Naruto knows that they are useless and if he thought otherwise would be the first one to fight Sasuke over it.

 

So you think that Naruto thinks Sakura's weak and useless? Okay, well you're wrong because it contradicts canon statements he's made. It would go against his character for him to find Sakura to be weak and useless when all he's ever done is admire her. So that's all that needs to be said.

 

Which only proves that he does think that otherwise he would be fighting Sasuke over the statement. But to clarify I don't think that he believes Sakura is weak, just that in this situation she's not going to be very helpful. However, considering the number of times that he has saved you have to wonder if Naruto doubts her combat ability as shown towards the end of 631 where he tells her to rest now that she is finished healing him.

 

Are you a reader that needs to be hand held through everything a character is thinking/feeling, or are you a reader who can infer from the situation, from expressions and commonsense to figure out whats going on? If you are the second, you don't need scenes with Sakura thinking "Oh I feel really useless" you can TELL that's how she feels because you know her character and you know whats going on and you know that she's upset.

 

Ah insults, usually meaning that the other person can't resort to evidence to prove their point. Very classy. The reason why the above argument doesn't really make sense is the fact that scenes are the cold hard evidence of what a character is actually feeling. Of course you can guess at the time but a guess is a guess. How can you truly know what Sakura's feelings are without a scene or panel to prove it. But I don't really see why a hand-holding reader/ an inferring reader has anything to do with the matter at all. My main point was that there was zero development showing the regression of Sakura's character from pride to low self esteem and that Naruto agreed that Sasuke was right. I never said that Sakura didn't feel that she was useless. The fact that she feels useless and is doing nothing to improve her situation or even trade words with Sasuke is worse bc it shows that she has given up and accepted the fact that she can't do anything.

 

 Again, what the hell is she supposed to be doing? there is nothing she CAN DO.

 

She could maybe start by saving herself from falling into that lava pit for starters. Or try to distract Kaguya so that Naruto and Sasuke can seal her. Or give Sasuke a piece of her mind. Or save Obito's body. Or find a way for herself and Kakashi to make it to safe ground. Or figure out a way to damage Kaguya. Or use her medical avoidance skills to try and memorize the pattern of Kaguya's attacks. Plus wasn't she supposed to be talented at genjutsu or something?

Edited by Shadow1275, 15 June 2014 - 01:46 AM.

[Gojira]

How exactly was Sakura supposed to save herself?

Kakashi is faster and has a kittenton more experience which was why him doing all that was basically just a reflex for him, we don't even know if Sakura even has tools with her, also Kakashi was closer to both Obito and the wall and he still barely made it.

[Otaru]

I can understand your frustration, but to me some of you are reacting too strongly to this week's chapter.

Right now, we are frustrated, and we want to see Sakura fight, but at the moment she can't do nothing to fight Kaguya, she's too strong.
I'm a little frustrated too, because I don't like to see her that sad and I want her to yell at Sasuke to shut his dirty mouth. Honestly. LOL

 

I'm sure in some weeks, when we will have more, reading the chapters one after another will make sense and we will not feel frustration.

Right now we are impatient, and we want to see Sakura do something great.

 

I think Kishimoto is setting Sakura for something that will happen sooner or later.

 

I'm sure of it. Everytime in the past when he 'downplayed' her, it was to make her shine later on. It's also the same with his other characters. It's how Kishi is writing. Putting a character down and then make him/her stand up and shine strong.

 

To me, the purpose of this chapter was to say clearly that Sasuke would have let them die. Basically. To prove the difference between him and Naruto, and to begin to show to us readers how Naruto will see right through Sasuke later on.

The way Naruto frowned his eye, looking at Sasuke, is proving he is deeply doubting what Sasuke said. Because once, Sasuke saved him the same way. I think Kishi wants us to see that Naruto is seeing through Sasuke. Naruto also has frickin' teased Sasuke with his last sentence.

Right now, he doesn't care, or he's forcing him to not care, or he's blinded by his goals, or anything. But we all know that the old Sasuke will be back later on. And we all now that Naruto will dig in him like he has done with Obito and that he will find him buried deep down inside.

 

And I still think he checked first in the direction of Kakashi and Sakura before going to save Naruto.

I know this a SS argument they are actually using to prove Sasuke loves Sakura soooo much and all, but I still think he checked.

He checked and then he went for Naruto. He explained to Naruto everything Kakashi has done. He saw it.

Edited by Otaru, 15 June 2014 - 01:56 AM.

[FireFox]

NarutoFireFox that was really the context, the context is two aspects.
Sasuke telling Naruto that Sakura and Naruto aren't usefull and then telling him that because of this he should not worry about protecting Sakura and Kakashi.
Naruto said he understood but he's not going to let them die.

She gets depressed at Naruto "agreeing" with Sasuke about her usefullness.
If you have any doubts, Sakura confirms this otherwise there was no reason for her to had agreed with Sasuke.

>Rooney
Thank you for all the goals you scored in world cups.

Oh Men why did you have to push it .

 

But no that wasn't the context you are twisting it to appear like that , like i said the context is  Naruto superiority (his powers who are able to spot Kaguya )  and his sacrifice ( Naruto trying to stoop doing this because he's more important/superior and this in no way means that they are useless two different things ) Whille Sasuke does  consider them as useless and him not saving them has a thing to do with that but that's not what he was explaining to Naruto that was not the context but this  that him Sasuke was saving them only because of Naruto's importance his powers  not because they are relevant to him again these are two different things  .  And   like i said  that wasn't really the context the context was Naruto superiority and him stop sacrifice himself   because of that .  

 

And again you are twisting the scene look at Naruto's expression when Sasuke tells him if he understood  he's first at shock and then angry and he remains like this while saying to Sasuke that he "understand" sorry but this implies that he understand Sasuke's POV a thing he refused and didn't see it  and that he's angry at him about it then he goes to mock him by trowing Sasuke's own line  back at him so he can understand why he's doing that  the point of this was to ridicule Sasuke's POV not to agree with him at all .

 

And here is what i will say about Sakura's depressed at Naruto's "agreeing" i have no doubts for what it is but i have a problem with you guys twisting it  and i will just copy just one of the factors that i have previously mentioned and that you have been avoiding it  even in my previous posts . 

 

 If Sakura was so hurt by Naruto words that he was agreeing with Sasuke and wasn't just a misunderstanding like you guys are implaying (like the panels later shows ) then why didn't she included Naruto also when she said that Sasuke is right ? I mean why not Naruto also didn't he agreed with Sasuke according to you guys ? Also i find it very very hard to believe that Sakura would have tanked him just because he still wants to save her even if he agrees that she's useless this is just ridiculous and you can't just make a distinction between the whole speech of Naruto because she tanked him in general for everything that Naruto said .

 

BTW I TOLD YOU THAT ENGLAND'S GONNA LOSE FROM ITALY XD

 

 

[TouKen4Life3g]

I always saw as Sasuke said is true about saving them because of coincidence, but since Naruto wanted to, she thanked him for it. Simple.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 15 June 2014 - 02:04 AM.

[Otaru]

Naruto didn't admit her and Kakashi were useless. And I think he doesn't think it either.

In the chapter JUST BEFORE this one, he said the contrary to Sasuke.

 

Sasuke is trying to make Naruto accept that he might be forced to let Kakashi and Sakura die. To sacrifice them to save humanity.

 

Sakura feared it for one second. She was like : "no, not Naruto"

///// her reaction to this small thing speak volumes about her feelings for Naruto compared to her feelings for Sasuke

 

Naruto said to Sasuke that he was understanding what he was talking about.

Sakura looked afraid/chocked.

Then immediately Naruto debunked Sasuke. With a memory Sasuke gave to Naruto himself.

Perfect debunk.

 

Sakura thanked Naruto because he cared, and because he said it, as always.

 

At first, I didn't understand why she said "it's as Sasuke said". At first I thought she was thinking about what Sasuke said to Naruto back then on that bridge. But not it's impossible Sakura wasn't there to hear it at that time. Sakura came after that and Sasuke was already "dead".

So, it seems to me that Sakura is thinking about what Sasuke said about Kaguya, that her and Kakashi can't do anything right now and that Naruto and himself were the only ones able to seal her.

Edited by Otaru, 15 June 2014 - 02:33 AM.

[Atheck]

How exactly was Sakura supposed to save herself?

Kakashi is faster and has a kittenton more experience which was why him doing all that was basically just a reflex for him, we don't even know if Sakura even has tools with her, also Kakashi was closer to both Obito and the wall and he still barely made it.

 

 

Well if you ignore the fact that the momentum of the fall was probably working against Sakura and her shock at the sudden change of the surrounding geography, she could have influenced the trajectory of her fall so she hit the cavern wall. Once there's a solid surface in her grasp, she takes a page from Kakashi's book and rams a kunai deep into the wall to support her weight. If for whatever reason there's no kunai in her bag to use, she digs in using her fist or feet to stop herself from plunging into the lava. She's a trained shinobi who happens to excel at chakra control. Channeling power to her feet so she can walk on vertical surfaces shouldn't be hard.

 

I'd like to know what happened to those evasion and reaction skills that medical shinobi are supposed to have. 

[JILLNYN]

 

And I still think he checked first in the direction of Kakashi and Sakura before going to save Naruto.

I know this a SS argument they are actually using to prove Sasuke loves Sakura soooo much and all, but I still think he checked.

He checked and then he went for Naruto. He explained to Naruto everything Kakashi has done. He saw it.

Yeah! Sasuke said that before his speech, when Naruto is praising Kakashi and ask how he did it?

Then Sasuke says all that Kakashi did to save them, and tells him to look his opponent in front of him and focus and then explains his speech of the whole situation, that's why precisely I think that the issue that Kakashi and Sakura are useless was not in his speech and was not part of the context, the issue was that they both are key and should focus, he saw that Kakashi was self-sufficient to save himself and others.

I also thought it Sasuke checked that Kakashi save Obito and Sakura, but this is more risky to say so, I also think that Sasuke cares about Team 7 or Naruto succeed to do that Sasuke care.